I don't know if this is the type of discussion question that you want or not, if not, feel free to use the magic delete key.

If the executive branch of the U.S. government chooses to exercise the powers that are available under the Emergency Powers Act, will we ever be able to put the genie back in the bottle and restore any sort of genuine democracy with personal freedom and liberty?

I fear that when unemployment passes the 10% point, or when spot shortages of critical items begin occurring regularly, the American people will demand that the government "do something", and will willingly accept a quasi-dictatorship.

-- Richard Ruffin (exalt2u@earthlink.net), August 11, 1999

Answers

Richard,

Well, it's certainly the sort of thing that should be discussed in the section on government and politics.

Seems to me that we've had unemployment approaching 10% in the period after Depression ended, though I don't have the figures right at hand. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that several European countries are currently experiencing unemployment levels of 12-14%, and it doesn't seem that they've invoked any kind of Emergency Powers Act...

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (HumptyDumptyY2K@yourdon.com), August 11, 1999.

Very few people know about or discuss the 'democracy' that was foisted on the South during the misnamed "Reconstruction" period. This history is a good guide to the kind of 'democracy' that is allowed by the Federal Government in subjugated areas.

And no, I have no racist agenda, and I am NOT referring to the rigged elections of freed blacks to state legislatures. I am talking about the abrogation of civil, political and property rights under the guise of 'reform'.

y2k may disable the Government's computers to the point where local control becomes possible again, or it may simply facilitate the deconstruction of the Constitution that has been one of the main aims of the post WW2 governing elites.

The ultimate goal is economic control for moneyed interests.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), August 11, 1999.

Richard, Ed and others.... I lived the Depression, and depending on where you lived, unemployment could be 25 - 30% . Almost everyone had a large garden, and children were expected to tend it , IF there father was working . I walked a mile and back, to buy a farm helper his Lucky Strikes; I HOPED he would give me a nickle ! The real problem with the democracy we have today , and what we had then was the NUMBER of laws, rules and regulations. We now have well OVER 200 MILLION laws , rules and regs !! They strangle business, increase taxes, government, AND the POWER of the politicians who burden us further with 10,000 new ones EACH DAY ! Ed, I respectfully think this should be covered somewhere; and may I say, you could have taken chapter one right out of my head . I think the breakdown of local government in rural areas, where the small, unprepared and probably UNPAID police force will be overwhelmed, and give up after two months of outsiders AND locals taking what they have come to believe they are ENTITLED to, as they have "learned" so well from our liberal, socialist government. This alone will cause small enclaves of responsible citizens to reconstruct a citizens government, if for no other reason than common defense of crops and property. They, I believe, will NOT be willing to return to our present day corupted and over regulated society, NOR the burdensome taxation ( in my state, adding local, state , federal AND hidden taxes together, we lose OVER 56% of earned monies.) Records kept of slaves return on the money expended v.s. income returned showed that the BEST return on a slave was 12% . If we are returning OVER THREE TIMES THIS AMOUNT to governments, it is no wonder the politicians are arrogant, wastefull and treat us as the masters of slaves; FOR WE TRULY ARE !!! Eagle

-- Harold Walker (e999eagle@freeweb.com), August 11, 1999.

Richard,

First my political statement: My concern all along has been for our republic, not a democracy.

Second, I think the issue we are really talking about is character. It all depends on how much character the American people have. While I would question if we would equal the character level of those who went through the Great Depression ... it just depends how far we have gone down that slippery slope.

I hope we won't have to see that day, but I have a feeling that it is coming.

Tim

-- tim daniels (tim@commonsense.com), August 12, 1999.

It is indeed difficult to feel optimistic about the long-term prospects for the U.S. as a whole. We have been seeing a deterioriation in civic virtues among our citizenry for decades now. (Most people wouldn't even know what the term "civic virtues" means, which itself is a pretty revealing indicator of how far gone we are.)

There are some parts of the nation which are still in better shapes than others. In general, I would say that the cities and suburbs are in worse shape than the small towns and rural areas, and that the Northeast and Pacific coast are in worse shape than the South, Midlands, and Mountain West. While I am not advocating secession here, I am making the observation that the prospects for survival under some sort of democratic, republican (note lower cases of both) regime would appear to be better if the nation would actually devolve into several autonomous/independent regions. Thus, it appears to unfortunately be the case that the trade off will be: national unity, but under an authoritarian regime nation wide; or devolution/secession, with at least some of these smaller nations under a democratic regime.

Which will it be?

A moderate Y2K scenario would probably not be sufficient to provoke national dissolution. Thus, a moderate Y2K scenario might tend to result in the establishment of an authoritarian regime nationwide.

On the other hand, it could well be that the establishment of an authoritarian regime would itself be a major driving force for a severe (7-9) Y2K scenario, and would then in turn increase the possibility of regional secession/liberation movements. Unless the Y2K scenario was very severe, however (probably a 9), the prospects for a successful regional rebellion would be dim.

Thus, I must reluctantly conclude with a relatively pessimistic outlook for the future survival of democratic governance and rebublican regime values in the U.S., regardless of most Y2K scenarios. Too much of our population is just too far gone, too homogenized and too indoctrinated by mass media, mass culture, mass education, mass marketing, etc.

-- Stefan Stackhouse (stefans@mindspring.com), August 13, 1999.

Amen to all the above.

Though I'm not a pshycic, nor a prophet, and I don't know the timetables of things in future-tense...

Using Scripture as a guide...and in particular Revelation, Isaiah and Daniel...

What is borne out of the ashes of our present systems' burning hulk, will be nothing short of the "Beast" spoken of.

Out of the chaos and suffering will come the cry of the people to have the way things were brought back...and for this, they will willingly give up their freedoms, independence and birthrights to follow some charismatic politician into a new age of Theocratic governance.

It may indeed seem like a blissful arrangement of religion and government...but it will be far from what it appears to be.

I think that with our present cultural mindset and morality...this nation, the good Ol' U.S. of A. does not figure at all into a future equation.

I would not be surprised if we rip ourselves to shreds in our spoiled lazy and soft state...leaving us wide open for whoever wanted to march in here and wipe up what's left for resource usage.

And if you don't think that can happen here....you're not alone.

The Romans thought the same thing before the Visigoths came rolling in over the hills.

I don't think that we of our own accord can fix our ability to govern ourselves Ed, unless we first acknowledge the need for some heavy- handed forgiveness and guidance from The Landlord.

This nation's heart needs to change first. We've gotten too arrogant and proud in all our technological marvels.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 14, 1999.

Question: What is a deomcracy?

Answer: A democracy is government by majority vote. It is also called mob- rule.

Question: What is an example of democracy in action?

Answer: If I do not like the fact that you made more money than I did last year, I can get folks together to vote and make you give up your extra share of income. If I get more voters, then we can take from you.

Question: Is democracy our form of government?

Answer: No. Our form of government is a republic, or government by law. More specifically, it is a constitutional republic. That means, if I don't like the fact that you made more than me last year, and you convince a group of people to forcefully come and take some of what I have (through democratic vote) I can call the sherriff and have you arrested for breaking a law that states that no one can steal from anyone else.

Comment: We are not a democracy, which is mob-rule. We are a constitutional republic, which is orderly voting for laws which keep people from infringing on others' rights.

Edmund

-- Cousinedmund (a@a.a), September 23, 1999.

OOPS! THE THIRD ANSWER IS NOW WRITTEN IN THE PROPER, LESS-CONFUSING FASHION IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN-IN. SORRY ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: What is a deomcracy? Answer: A democracy is government by majority vote. It is also called mob- rule.

Question: What is an example of democracy in action?

Answer: If I do not like the fact that you made more money than I did last year, I can get folks together to vote and make you give up your extra share of income. If I get more voters, then we can take from you.

Question: Is democracy our form of government?

Answer: No. Our form of government is a republic, or government by law. More specifically, it is a constitutional republic. That means, if you don't like the fact that I made more than you last year, and you convince a group of people to forcefully come and take some of what I have (through democratic vote) I can call the sherriff and have you arrested for breaking a law that states that no one can steal from anyone else.

Comment: We are not a democracy, which is mob-rule. We are a constitutional republic, which is orderly voting for laws which keep people from infringing on others' rights.

Edmund

-- Cousinedmund (a@a.a), September 23, 1999.

What was that swell I saw on the ocean? behold what comes here! How it climbs with daring feet and hands! how it dashes! How the true thunder bellows after the lightning! how bright the flashes of lightning! How DEMOCRACY, with desperate vengeful port strides on, shown through the dark by those flashes of lightning!

(Yet a mournful wail and low sob I fancied I heard through the dark, In a lull of the deafening confusion.)

...

Walt Whitman

Rise, O Days

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 24, 1999.