I have been noticing that a great many top administrative posts dealing with Y2K are filled by women. I am a woman and happy to see women in these positions, however am surprised (and suspicious) that this large a proportion, (or so it seems to me) of women to men ratio are in these positions. I would like to know when these women have been appointed, and by whom, as I have a sick feeling that they are as a group being set up as Y2K scapegoats.

-- Beverley Bonner (bevbon@hawaiian.net), August 07, 1999

Answers

Wow, talk about paranoid.

-- Lurk Her (LurkHer@thisdomain.com), August 07, 1999.

If you were a white male, you'ld know that its just the way things are currently. Everything is centered on women accomplishing things. Won't start a fight.

Not saying these women are/aren't qualified. Its just that women are the center of the hire/appointment focus in government. Don't think it has anything to do with being "set up" (at least any different than men would be).

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), August 07, 1999.

Beverly,

The same observation has been made about Y2K project managers in the private sector -- a disproportionately large percentage seem to be women. There have been lots of informal discussions about this, and the "scapegoat" scenario has come up from time to time. However, I think a simpler explanation is promotion-hungry men tend to look at the position as one that has very little upside, and LOTS of downside potential.

If your Y2K efforts are a success, will you get promoted? Probably not, since it's a presumably a once-in-a-lifetime assignment. On the other hand, if your efforts are unsuccessful, will you get fired? Duh....

Perhaps there's a more optimistic explanation -- e.g., Y2K requires an enormous amount of cross-functional cooperation throughout the organization, and women are better at achieving such things than men.

No doubt there will be a Ph.D. thesis or two about all of this when the dust settles...

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (HumptyDumptyY2K@yourdon.com), August 07, 1999.

"It's a man's world" and this is beaureaucrat 101. Find the most agreeable, people pleaser and put him/her at the top of the ladder. A better man/woman would expose or quit, unless so clueless that...for example, our presidents #1 y2k front man Koski, learned to used the computer in the past few years.

-- dw (y2k@outhere.com), August 07, 1999.

If y2k is a "10",I'd expect a lot of hard won "equal" rights for women,minoritys,and gays will disappear.Buy a gun,train with it regularly,get a concealed carry permit and carry your gun with you everywhere you go.This will help you be personaly responsible for your safty instead of relying on the police to make it better AFTER you've been victimized.Relying on police for safty fosters a victim mentality because police are NOT a protective force,they enforce laws AFTER they've been broken.In my case,I'd rather take enough personal responsibility to ensure my security BEFORE being ass-raped.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 07, 1999.

Zoobie you don't seem to GI. It's not just feminists that will be in danger my friend if it's a "10". It's anyone who is in a weaker position. Tell me Zoobie, are you a big muscular guy with no pity? If so then you may be in a position to inherit the earth. If not, then you may be serving those who do. As far as gay men are concerned, I think you suffer from stereotyping. I know a lot of gay men who work out and are pretty tough, they also have close ties with others who do the same. Who knows zoobie, if it's a 10 you may be serving these guys. You better rethink your Mad Max fantasies, it may not be you who is at the top of the food chain.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 07, 1999.

Just one more reason to keep the weaker sex out of any decision making positions.

Don't like that? B-o-o H-o-o

-- Shove it, 'cause... (I'm @ not. politically correct), August 07, 1999.

Sorry to say but I have wondered also if some of these women are being "thrown to the sharks". I personally witnessed an example of that with the U.S. Forest Service awhile back. A very qualified man, 30 years of fire experience with several recent years as chief was hadpicked for a temporary fill-in for the Fire Management Officer for a large western region. There was no question he was most qualified for the job - REALLY - even the application reviewers agreed but there was a very nice young woman dispatcher with a little fire experience who was encouraged to apply because there were so few female applicants (I suspect because there simply are never going to be as many females as men wanting to fight fire their entire lives....) that they had to "fly" the job listing again and again until more women applied. I personally read the reviews of her application and it was filled with references to her being "able to meet the requirements within 6 months to a year" meaning that she didn't even meet the minimum qualifications for the job but they could rush her through training to officially qualify (on paper). She got the job, was thrown to the wolves. This poor girl did not even have enough fire experience to fly in the recon. planes and direct fire suppression tactics (there are fixed qualification requirements for that). She really had a struggle and I suspect there were some who did what they could to make it more difficult for her. Last I heard she is sticking with it.

I am all for equal rights, have fought fire (and loved it) but I do have a problem with a system that puts lesser qualified people in control of other worker's LIVES - un-informed decisions in fire or Y2k could result in loss of life not just dollars. I have no idea if the women in high positions with regard to Y2k are qualified - they probably are - I just know what happened when I worked for the gov. and it was not an isolated case.

-- Kristi (securxsys@cs.com), August 07, 1999.

All this talk amazes me. You think the strongest, most muscular men always ruled society? (I guess they ruled some. Sparta and New Guinea are the most viscious societies on record. Guess what? They also were ruled by homosexuals. Better work on your ass muscles.) Newsflash: The strongest, fastest man can still get eaten by a bear. I'm guessing big predators will come to rule our society. If by "rule" you mean "cause the most fear".

I think that, for the most part, the only atvantage that humans have over their natural enviroment and predators is their intelligence. That's it. We're smart. We aren't strong (even the strongest), we aren't fast (even the fastest), we don't have claws or a tough hide, we don't have strong bones. We are weak ambulatory spam. But we do have 2 pounds of fat between our ears that enables us to plan, strategize, and create tools.

No person will be greater then the men and women who stand beside them. As is the way througout history. And all humans will get a better appreciation of how absolutly more powerfull then them nature is. And hey, if we *do* get blasted back into the stone age by all acounts at that time, human society was a matriarchy. Or maybe all the huge dykes (I'm talking biker sized here) I've seen will form roving bands, turn smaller women into concubines and men into their work-slaves. Or maybe black men will start to enslave white men. They tend to be bigger, more muscular in some cases already have the training for societal colapse. You can entertain a sorts of absurdist senerios but in the end humans are still small, weak hominids and still one of the most social animals on the planet.

Anyone watch The Blair Witch Project? I found it facinating to watch the progression of three average Gen-X's from typical american arrogance to abject terror. Very realistic. The men in the movie were average, every day men. Sufficently macho, probably a lot like the guys that read this forum. The woman was also fairly average, a little more driven then most. By the end they were huddling together, wet, terrified and crying like the smallish apes they are. Proving to me that, in the end, all we have is eachother.

Oh, and by the way, the only person who cried out in fear during that movie was a man. And not a *femmy* one either.

I'm not a feminazi, nor am I the bitchy, selfish woman that (obviously) dicked a lot of the men on this forum around and made them fantasize about a Mad Max senerio in which they could rape, beat and maim as many "weak" women as they want. Funny how everything starts with women and ends with them. I guess a lot of men feel really bitter about

-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), August 07, 1999.

The last word should be "that".

-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), August 07, 1999.

I don't have two pounds of fat between my ears, nor do I think we are the highest form of life on this planet.

BUT, we are the dominating species at this time. Some us however, are just more dominating than others. Call it brains, call it cunning, doesn't matter. The point is we are king of the mountain for now. Maybe the very fact that we won't alwaybs BE kings of the mountain is what pushes the strongest to be the best of the best, the first among equals. You know, natural selection and all that. If humanity was static then it wouldn't matter who was in charge or if there was a heirarchy of life. We could all stuff oursleves full of ring dings, let the females control the world, and prop ourselves up infront of the boob tube and watch Jerry Springer. But SINCE Darwin was right in my opinion, then we'd better get this mess straightened out, starting with Politicall Correctness and Affirmative Action.

"If you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch". It's simple enough, how come you can't understand that?

-- (Nobody is @ "Entitled". To Anything), August 07, 1999.

"If you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch". It's simple enough, how come you can't understand that?

If you choose to view things that way, then perhaps Affirmative Action is a way for the more cunning dogs to kick the old dogs off the moutain. Enjoy the view from the porch, I think Ms. Darwin would be proud.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 07, 1999.

You don't have two pounds of fat between your ears? Then what, pray tell, *do* you have?

-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), August 07, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California

Why are so many women the Y2K spokes-models for their companies and agencies? It's because the position is obviously perceived by "the powers that be" to be a Public Relations position and not a management position. This should throw up a warning flag to those of us who know that Y2K remediation and preparedness is a complicated management problem, and not just a matter of smoothing over the customers and investors.

PR has long been the realm of women, people who have a good grasp of language and can muster the body language to believably say what they are told to say, because they are not really in the loop. Since the time of the Bhopal disaster, I've been noticing that women are invariably pulled up into the limelight any time there is an enormous disaster.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage.neener.autospammers--regrets.greenspun), August 07, 1999.

then perhaps Affirmative Action is a way for the more cunning dogs to kick the old dogs off the moutain.

Sorry I forgot how you people depend on the government for everything. Sort of ironic that now you Doomers want them all to go away...

-- (Affirmative @ Action. is FOR the weak), August 07, 1999.

Sorry I forgot how you people depend on the government for everything. Sort of ironic that now you Doomers want them all to go away...

-- (Affirmative @ Action. is FOR the weak), August 07, 1999.

Hey bunkie you seem a little touchy. What's a matter, did somebody grease your side of the mountain? Did someone quicker and brighter manipulate you out of a job? You stated "Darwin was right", so I guess that means you have nothing to complain about, survival of the fittest, if those are the rules then it doesn't matter how you win as long as you win.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 07, 1999.

Wow, people, talk about paranoid responses! Take a look at a good SENSIBLE straight forward answer, without any egotistic smart talk-----Humpty Dumpty outshines you all!

-- Beverley Bonner (bevbon@hawaiian.net), August 08, 1999.

Is there a mud-wrestling factor here that we're all missing???

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 08, 1999.

"God made some men big and some men small. Samuel Colt made them equal"

-- biker (y2kbiker@worldnet.att.net), August 08, 1999.

Natural selection isn't working the same on humans as other species. Now, in the US at least, it is selecting for the willingness to live on welfare.

-- biker (y2kbiker@worldnet.att.net), August 08, 1999.

DARWIN IS RIGHT, it doesn't matter how YOu win, but relying on someone else TO WIN FOR YOU is garbage. Affirmative Action is garbage, and feminazis like you are a dying breed. Just wait until Uncle Sam can't protect you anymore then you'll remember your true place in society.

-- (Go @ back to. being a Mommy), August 08, 1999.

DARWIN IS RIGHT, it doesn't matter how YOu win, but relying on someone else TO WIN FOR YOU is garbage. Affirmative Action is garbage, and feminazis like you are a dying breed. Just wait until Uncle Sam can't protect you anymore then you'll remember your true place in society.

-- (Go @ back to. being a Mommy), August 08, 1999.

I love the part about "just wait until Uncle Sam can't protect you anymore" , you sound like a three year old. Anyway, the one thing in my life that I've learned is that no one hands over their power. If you want power you fight for it. Affirmative Action was fought for by a lot of people through politics, demonstrations and sometimes even death. If Affirmative Action willl remain, it will remain because a new breed will take up the cause and continue to fight for it. As far as the feminazi part....I've been called worse, you don't shock me. In my little corner of the world name calling isn't a big deal. Finally, you suggested that I go back to being a mommy, I suggest you go find a mommy to teach you a little something about life.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 08, 1999.

Ladies, ladies, ladies. We all know that these big, strong men are much better suited to handle these tough, complicated projects that would just blow our little female minds. Afterall, if we were in charge, we would simply not have enough time to complete the job - what with makeup to apply, hair to curl, purfume to spray, etc. Let's just step back and take our place where we belong, in the background, clapping hands and cheering on our protectors. (Besides, you know as well as I do that honey attracts more flies than vinegar. The best way to get your way is to convince a man that it was his idea!) Bye gals.

-- amused (no@email.please), August 09, 1999.

Besides, you know as well as I do that honey attracts more flies than vinegar

When Y2K hits there better not be a shortage of vinegar...I don't want any flies on me.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 09, 1999.

Go,
Natural selection, Darwinism, etc, says that those who survive and thrive win the game. It doesn't make moral judgements about how you grab the most resources, only that you figure out a way to do it. Perhaps you were referring to some other Darwin, other than the one I'm familiar with?
Another thing, we (us white guys, that is) did get government protection, for a long time. Oh sure, it wasn't by formal law; it was done with a nudge and a wink, but it was still protection. Ever read up on what happened to Rosie the Riviter, when the boys came back home? All the women who worked to keep the country functioning, during WW2 were given the boot, to make way for the returning GI's. The government thought that was peachy...downright patriotic, in fact. If the world was ever the way you seem to think it was, prior to affirmative action, then the returning soldiers would have had to prove that they could do a better job, than Rosie and friends.
Affirmative action isn't, by far, an ideal solution. I think it leads to a lot of women/minorities/etc getting set up. When an employer hires strictly upon his/her NWNM (non-white, non-male) quota, I've seen it happen where they're not even hiring the best qualified female or minority candidate. They just want a set of boobs and/or some dark skin to fill the position, so they can smile and say how compliant they are with EOC laws. This leads to the occasional gross mismatch of person to job, which is then, of course, seized upon, by persons such as yourself, as the defining example of what happens when you let the women folk or (insert favorite racial slur here) have positions of authority. But, you know, there's just not any other ideas floating around out there, for how to even things up.
I can't say that I'm thrilled that we (us white guys) no longer have favored status, but it's a bit tacky for us to whine too much about it, history being what it is, and all.

-- Bokonon (bokonon@my-deja.com), August 10, 1999.

y2k is raceless, genderless, religionless, and couldn't care less whether you sleep with the same gender or your dog.... what was the question?

oh yeah... there will be enough scapegoating for everyone regardless... y2k is equal opportunity... blame is overrated anyway... really...

keep the faith

-- booann (cantsay@lovemyjob.edu), August 10, 1999.

Ooooh!! I just have to get in on this (smears herself with mud for KoS.)

Go @ back, I eat brains like yours for appetizers, I throw a Godiva bonbon on top after I've hammered them with a meat tenderizer before I swallow them, tasty. I don't bother with their balls because usually they're petrified.

If we go infomagic, I'm prepared. I'll have my Niddle Dick Snares(tm) set out around my bunker compound (the snare's design is a top woman secret), then sun-dry my catch to replenish my supply of Jerks...I mean Jerkies.

We women have more than one way to survive and thrive. Many men don't like our methods of how we survive, but bottom line is we do and many men don't.

See you when Darwin calls us on the floor kido.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 10, 1999.

I had great hopes when Elizabeth Dole resigned the Red Cross to run for Prez. Figured she could clean the clocks of any of her male opponents by running on a platform of Y2K preparation and family values. Hasn't happened yet, and time is running out.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), August 10, 1999.