If you can only be a male and be a priest, and these are the "bride of Christ" in heaven, where DO women fit in? Can they not be a part of the bride at all?

Further, with the pope's "new understanding on heaven" (this is not the "hell" speech but the one a week or so before), we now know heaven is not a physical place "in the clouds", but rather a "relationship" within the "holy trinity." If this is true then what is the purpose of the "bride?" Where are the women? They can't seem to be a part of the bride, according to Catholic understanding?

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), August 04, 1999

Answers

Jamey - I think we hit this area already recently but I shall give my thoughts and others may correct me. The Bride refers to the Holy Mother Church and the Priests (ordained) are referred to as Beloved Sons Of Mary.

Women who take vows to become professed nuns are referred to as The Brides of Christ where a ring is worn on the wedding finger. They balance the vocation call within the professed religious life aspect of the Church.

In the laity for those who want to live a life of devotion these are referred to as lay brother or sister. I am referred to a Secular Franciscan Third Order SFO. It is for us a means of attempting to live as devoted members of the community at large as servants.

Best I can do at this point and hope it helps. +Peace+

-- jean bouchardRC (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), August 05, 1999.

Jean,

The confusion:

"Sigh. I'll try this again. A Catholic priest is believed to represent Christ at the Mass in persona Christi, in the person of Christ. Christ was a man and He is the bridegroom of the Church. Bridegroom = masculine; bride = feminine. Got that? A woman cannot represent Christ as priest because, among many reasons, this would represent a lesbian relationship with the Church. Simple. "David Palm

Here "he" says the "bride" is feminine, yet ,at least is implying, they can only be these "priest."

You say "nuns" are included? What about everybody else? The "laity"?

Another question, if Mary is the supposed "Mother of the Church" and the church is the "mother", what does this mean?

Search,

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), August 05, 1999.

cliches are used often as a method to promote a particular idea, position, etc. if the vestal virgins return, could they be men? (tongue in cheek) juan

-- juan (declined@aol.com), August 05, 1999.

Jmaey - You had me thinking once more throughtout the day regarding you questions in this area. Allow me to try in this manner.

Christ came to establish The Church called His Bride. We the followers of Christ look to " Her " as Mother Church the vessel to nurture us on this plain.

Again we must look at the historical context of these beginning when women (wives & daughters) were held little more then slaves. The counties were under a form of regime being the Roman Empire.

The simile/analogy/paralel whatever word fits comfortably for you is the above to my understanding. Of course to-day there would be a great cry and hue on those who want an equal opportunity employer and do not forget the unions. Gads.

Pope Jean Paul 11 has addressed this issue in an Apostolic Letter titled " Dignity and Vocation of Women. It is a solid presentation on this question of yours in total. Perhaps you could obtain a copy from a Catholic bookstore.+Peace+

-- jean bouchardRC (jenab@cwk.imag.net), August 06, 1999.

Jean,

Thank you for your response. Good points on the issues of "places" of slaves and such.

As to the bookstore I'm tired of "buying" stuff, especially when it comes to matters of Faith. Most of the references I have were given too me. Even my Catholic Bible.

Jamey

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), August 06, 1999.

The Bride of Christ are all believers that make up His Body. Christ is the head of the BODY of the church with many members. We are a royal priesthood ,a Holy nation of people set apart. The church like Mary has a connection to Jesus Body. The established Church itself is like the Holy Mother because it bears and nurtures the Body of Christ. Jesus is the only begotten Son. We are adopted Sons. (this includes women too). This terminology is used to show what our inherited status is as far as blessings go., Since firstborn sons inherited everything, this simply showa that God gives us everything through Christ our Savior.

-- pamela (Rosylace@aol.com), August 06, 1999.

But, Pamela, you can't be a royal priest. Are you not a women? Only men can be priest in your church? It doen't make sense?

Further, if in the time when Christ comes back and all are made 'royal priest' because of the CC, who will they be priest over? Who will they be ruling over? There would be no one left?

The search,

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), August 09, 1999.

Jamey, The royal priesthood is the Holy nation of people (men and women) set apart. You are forgetting that we spiritually speaking are as the gospel says we are neither male or female, Jew or Gentile, slave or free. Earthly speaking biology determines order, heavenly speaking their is no biology, no marrying ,etc... We all become through the saving faith of Jesus SONS OF GOD. This is stated to conform with earthly notions of inheritance so people would understand that with God the Father we are given blessings as Jesus the first of the firstborn. We all are the same group, all believers (SONS OF GOD). We are clothed with Christ. We are a royal priesthood and SONS OF GOD because of our sprirtual rebirth. Even on earth our spiritual status as SONS OF GOD is true through the adoption of Baptism. In heaven, I am no less a Son of God in status because on this earth I am a woman.

-- pamela (Rosylace@aol.com), August 09, 1999.

Jamey, Who will be left? Who will we reign over? The new heavenly realm, the angels. In the new earth the creation that was waiting for the SONS of GOD to be revealed was waiting to be freed from bondage and decay and curse to be ruled over by them. Adam was never asked to rule over people, but to rule and have dominion over the creation of paradise. THe Sons Of GOD will reign over paradise again. Ruling over people is an earthly government notion based on greed and power and brought about by the need to control and put limits on a sinful people. The new heaven and earth will not have sin only joy.

-- pamela (Rosylace@aol.com), August 09, 1999.

Then the thought of "man" in paradise must be a failure. Now he can only "rule" from heaven. He can't enjoy the life in which this "body" was designed.

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), August 09, 1999.

Jamey, The new heaven and the new earth will all be in the presence of God. It is where God will be We will live eternally within His communion and all creation will dwell together. The Lamb will lay down with the lion. The child will place his hand in the cobra's hole, All will be at peace and good. Human reason and terminology cannot grasp the full meaning of our eternal existance. We must know that it will be beyond our words to describe and we should just trust Christ when He says he goes and prepares a place for us. Our faith constantly hopes in the day of perfection and we will not know the full mysteries of God until we are able with our perfect mind and body to comprehend them. Thank God for His mysteries that captivate us and cause us to dwell on God and His Goodness and our hope in Jesus.

-- Pamela (Rosylace@aol.com), August 09, 1999.

Pamela,

Respectfully, many do not believe the "mystery" of the CC. The new heaven and earth will be as it was first intended.

Jamey

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), August 10, 1999.