Last week, I needed to get a cashiers check. I went in to my bank with $5,500.00 in cash , and asked the teller for a check. Without comment, she counted the cash, and checked for counterfeit bills. Then the fun began.

Teller: Where did you get this money?
Me: Huh? What do you mean? It's none of your business
Teller: Sir, you'll have to fill out this 10K form
Me: Huh? I thought that was for $10,000 or more
Teller: No
Me: What do you mean, no? Then why is the form called a 10K? Is this something new?
Teller: No, it's not
Me: Well, I'm not filling out any form
Teller: Then I'm afraid I can't give you the cashiers check sir
Me: *Damn*

Thought about this for a minute, then decided to try a different route

Me: OK, then I'd like to deposit this in my checking account
Teller: OK

I then got out my checkbook, and wrote a check for $5500.00, and handed it to her

Me: OK, now I'd like a cashiers check for $5500.00
Cashier: Ummmm

She scurried off to discuss this with the head teller..I heard her ask the head teller "is this above my cash limit"? The head teller said "it's above both of our limits combined"she came back to the window..

Teller: I'll need to get the branch managers approval for this large of a withdrawal
Me: Huh? I just handed you the cash 5 minutes ago
Teller: I know

She came back from the managers office 5 minutes later, and without comment gave me a cashiers check.

Now, I understand that there are regulations designed to prevent money laundering, particularly here in Florida, but for $5.5K ?? Is it a crime to have cash? And why was it any different when I deposited it in my checking account, rather then just exchange it for a casheirs check? I've searched for cash reporting requirements being different in Florida, but with no luck. Have they reduced it nation wide to 5K ?

Then yesterday I went to my banks ATM. In the past, when you get into the part of the menu to specify the amount you want, you are given a choice of some pre-selected amounts to withdraw ($20, $100, $200 etc) plus a choice that says "A different amount". If you select that, you can manually enter an amount up to your daily limit (mine is $600). Well, yesterday there was no other choice! The most it would let you withdraw was $200. My thought was how could they do this without notifying me that my daily limit had changed (and I DO read every little blurb the bank sends in my statements). Fuming, I got my $200, and decided to try getting another $200. It worked. I tried it again and it worked again. I was able to get my $600.

Any thoughts on what they are trying to do with the ATM? Is this the first step in limiting amounts? Do they hope that most people will be satisfied with the $200 max, and without actually changing your limit (since you can make multiple withdrawals) try to limit the amount of cash go out? Inquiring minds want to know.

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), August 02, 1999

Answers

Bob,

In the last three months, I have also noticed a need for bank manager approval for cash withdrawals in amounts of $1,500 or more at my bank, Crestar. Each time, they insist that I take a cashier's check, I say "no thank you, I want cash," and they go get the manager's approval. The last time (two weeks ago), the teller was extremely insistent to the point that my impatient reply was, "I want cash or we can close my business account, right now." The teller went and got the manager's approval and I got the cash. I find this odd as this wasn't "practiced policy" four months ago.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 02, 1999.

Hey Bob,

Interesting story and no offence intended, but I always wonder why these first-person accounts never mention the bank, the branch, the phone number and the manager's name. None of this is private and with that info, we, as readers, could call up the branch and ask pertinent questions that might get you your answers.

Also, as a side-bar, why do you even bother with ATM's? I've never ever used one. I deposit checks, cash checks, withdraw cash and deal almost exclusivly in cash except for mailed payments, and I know each teller at my bank by name. It would seem that if you want a good relationship with the bank, you'd be making person-to-person contact on a daily basis rather than working through a computer terminal and only showing your face when you want a cashier's check.

Remember, bank teller's are just clerks making $10 or so an hour, an average branch bank manager only makes $40,000 or so a year, a plumber makes more. The money in the bank is yours, you are the boss, act like one.

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), August 02, 1999.

Gee, folks, what did you expect?

The time to withdraw cash was six months ago. ;->

-- last in (line@gets.nothing), August 02, 1999.

Hey Bob...was that AMSOUTH bank? I had problems on friday when I made a deposit and then cashed some checks from different people, but all drawn on same bank/branch. They gave me the money ok but my choice was $100 or $20 bills. I was getting a $1000. No fives or tens, she said they were short. So I took the $20s. Also their computers were down and the ATM was down. When I made a remark to the teller that maybe it was y2k remediation, she said, "well they are supposed to be finished with that, but I understand they are putting some new systems in regarding safety" But didn't understand what 'safety' really meant. Said computers had 'been messed up all week and that they had to check every number.' Said, you could 'type in $240 and it would print $360.'

Taz...who did some serious WalMarting this weekend.

-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), August 02, 1999.

Randers

It's Washington Mutual in Hollywood Florida. Don't know the managers name. 411 would have the phone number. As to why bother with ATM's, since the merger (and lay off) mania in banking began a couple of years ago, the typical line at *any* bank here in South Florida tends to be 20 minutes or more. Since my company basically forced us into direct deposit, other then getting whatever cash is left in my checking account after bills are payed each week, I have no need to go there and stand in line. As for knowing each teller by name, you're lucky to see the same people in a particular branch from month to month. Makes it a little hard. And since this is my personal checking account, it puzzles me why you seem to think I would have a reason to "show my face" on a day to day basis?

Last in line

Maybe you didn't read my post.... I wasn't withdrawing money (other then the $600 at the ATM), I was actually depositing money. Got my cash a long time ago, and now just getting out what's left over each month (actually each week).

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), August 02, 1999.

Randers commented:

"Also, as a side-bar, why do you even bother with ATM's? I've never ever used one. I deposit checks, cash checks, withdraw cash and deal almost exclusivly in cash except for mailed payments, and I know each teller at my bank by name. "

Randers, you may have ALL the time in the world to "take tea" with your favorite tellers but most of us chose to get the job done as quickly as possible.

The worst thing the banks can do is start to limit cash withdrawls, it obvious will infuriate the folks that make their sham possible !!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

Bob and Ray,

So much anger in the world.

Actually, I don't "take tea" with the tellers. At my bank, the manager, assistant and at least 4 tellers have been there for 3-4 years (Seafirst in Seattle). I walk right up to the "Merchant's Window", no waiting and do my business. I'm in & out in 5-10 minutes.

Look, it makes no difference to me if you take my advice. If you just wanted to vent, fine, but I'm not the one with bank problems, I'm trying to help. I can get any amount of cash in any denominations anytime I want, most likely due to the personal relationship I've made a point of developing over the past 12 years that I've been at that bank. I don't consider this "wasted time", but rather an investment.

Incidentally, I also do a lot of business at Home Depot, as I'm a contractor. I know all the department heads there and it's paid off in thousands of dollars in savings on stock changes, referrals and close-outs. Taking a moment to get to know those whom you do business with always pays back dividends.

You catch more flies with honey than bile, that was my point. Perhaps it's your sarcasm and nastiness that's causing you difficulties.

Best of luck with your bank.

Randers

PS: I'd cancel that auto-depostit if possible and keep as much as possible in cash.

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), August 02, 1999.

Hey Randers, when you walk up to the Merchant's window do you ever glance over to the area where John Doe transacts their business?

You must be in Never-Never land!!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

Randers,

congradulations on having such a pleasant feel for your bank. We all wish we had your nice bank to go to.

I have been going to the same bank for years in a small town. I know the tellers. Sometimes I walk in. Sometimes I don't. So what.

The point of the thread was not how bitter anyone was about their banking experience but how alarmed they were at a sudden change in their bank's behavior.

This is a viable point which has been brought up here on other threads as such experiences occured. I, for one, am grateful for the "heads-up" and will be very interested to see what happens in the next few weeks as the banks try more and more to implement these new pollicies.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 02, 1999.

I'm sorry you were treated so badly by your bank. I just wanted to interject that there is a document that must be filled out each time an official check, such as this cashier's check, is purchased with cash in an amount of $3,000 or more. The document requires that the name of the individual, the check type purchased, the amount, the check number, plus some additional identifying information be collected and recorded. This is a requirement of the "Bank Secrecy Act" designed to aid law enforcement in tracking official checks purchased with cash which is normally untraceable. The fact that she tried to force you to complete the CTR (10K form) was incorrect. I wish she had been better trained. Thank you.

-- Diana (dstubblefield@ldd.net), August 02, 1999.

Randers

So much anger? Did you confuse me with Ray? I guess you may have to point out the anger in my post you are refering too. I do however see anger in your reply...accusing me of bile? Nastiness? What post are you reading?

As far as comparing your business relationship with a bank to someones banking relationship with a personal account, the two are no where near the same, and can't be compared. While as a contractor you may very well need to go into your bank daily, but the typical person has no need to.

And you have no idea how much I would like to take your advice about the direct deposit issue, but here is my choice. Since my company is headquartered out of state, our checks are mailed to us at home weekly. Since they are out of state checks, the banks here want to hold a portion of them. There is also the concern about it getting stolen out of the mailbox. So givin the choice, would you rather have direct deposit, or have it mailed? I chose direct deposit.

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), August 02, 1999.

Ray,

You just keep proving my point.

Actually I don't live in never-never land. I've got a great wife, wonderful kids, a good business and excellent relations with just about everyone I do business with. I't all due to taking charge.

It appears that you prefer to be a victim, toss off sarcasm to those who're trying to help and then whine about your inability to achieve what you want from the system. I'll try and then I'll give up on you:

1.Got a bad bank - change banks. 2.Got a problem with a bank - talk to the manager, not a clerk. 3.Want cash out of the bank - don't put it in there in the first place 4.Want to skip the lines and go to the merchant's window - open up a home based shell company, i'tll cost you maybe $50. 5.Want to succeed - take advice from those who have achieved success.

Most people live down to their expectations. Your problem is that you need to set your goals higher.

Good Luck.

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), August 02, 1999.

Diana, let's see if I understand this. You MUST fill out a form if you go into your bank with $3,000 cash and request a Cashiers check. If you take that $3,000 cash and deposit it in your checking account and then request a Cashiers check you do not have to fill out a form, is this correct?

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

Randers commented:

"3.Want cash out of the bank - don't put it in there in the first place"

Now how does this work Randers? Who gets paid with cash? Who gets their Social Security payment in cash? Who gets anything in cash?

Where do you get cash Randers?

Yes indeed sir, you do live in Never-Never land.

And no, I won't set up a SHELL company to stand in the Merchants line. I will use the ATM, you nitwit !!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

Sheesh - I'm beginning to be sorry I started this thread....

Thanks for the info Diana. I'm curious about the question that Ray asked too... why was it ok to deposit the cash in my checking account, and then get a cashiers check without having to fill out any type of form?

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), August 02, 1999.

Bob, your information is extremely important and much appreciated.

Diana also said that the teller should have been trained better. If this is the case then her supervisor and the branch managerr needed more TRAINING also!!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

Believe it or not businesses do deposit actual Cash! I also would like to add gifts of cash at Christmas is nothing unusual. (I was given 3 thousand in cash by my mother one year. I had no problems depositing cash into my account. Also, I sell art work, and have yard sales, so there agian, I have cash to deposit.. My bank knows me, but at times, yes I am asked about checks that I deposit. But this is for the purpose of whether they clear it right away or put a 10 day hold on it. A paycheck will be cleared right away, one that is not is a 10 day waiting period I am told.

-- Cassandra (american_storm@usa.net), August 02, 1999.

Bob: I got the run around a couple months ago when I tried to cash a check my mother wrote to me for $350.00. We both had accounts at the same bank but at a different branch. They would not let me cash the check without the other branch faxing a copy of my signature card and a copy of my mother's signature. They had my account number, my license, etc. My mother was waiting in the car and I had to bring her into the bank to verify. NO WAY were they going to give me $350.00 without seeing that signature card! I immediately told them that I wanted to close my account and my mother demanded the same. Between the two of us, we withdrew over $75,000.00! When I got home, I made a phone call to the President of the bank and told him what happened.....I heard later that the teller no longer works at that bank.

-- goteven (goteven@goteven.com), August 02, 1999.

In answer to why the bank doesn't have to fill out a Monetary Transaction Report (what we are talking about here)is that the regulators want some kind of paper trail so, if need be (suspicious activity related to money laundering), they can track where the cash goes. If it is just cash, over $3,000, they must fill out the Monetary Transaction Report before they issue the check, or other negotiable item (travelers checks, Bank Check, etc.)

Many banks have gone to just depositing and withdrawing it from the customers account in order to not bother filling out this report. Most of the time it is transparent. If it is a non-customer, they are required to fill out the report.

That's about the long and short of it. Believe me, we don't like it better than you do, more work and all, pointless paperwork, but regs are regs.

GOIN' CRAZY

-- CrazyBankerMan (bankin@bankaway.com), August 02, 1999.

-- CrazyBankerMan,

Have you ever considered the effect of the Federal and State regulations in your industry and others, that were enacted over the past ten years, have had on the degree of difficulty in y2k remediation.

When the y2k story is finally recorded, government mandated rules and regulations will be rank high on the list of reasons for failure.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

Regulations like the fact that we had to be substantially done with internal testing by 12-31-98, external testing by 3-31-99, and completely done by 6-30-99. Like the fact that we are required to develop contingency plans by 6-30-99, and thoroughly test them by 9- 30-99, 10-31-99 at latest. If my info is correct, amazingly 98% of federally insured banks, thrifts, and credit unions are in line with these milestones

You say the regulations have been a significant part of Y2K remediation failing. I see them as a blessing in disguise.

Goin Crazy

-- CrazyBankerMan (bankin@bankaway.com), August 02, 1999.

CrazyBankerMan commented:

" Believe me, we don't like it better than you do, more work and all, pointless paperwork, but regs are regs. "

Gee Crazy, you must have a SHORT memory !!

Isn't it wonderful that the Federal Government waves it's magic wand and ALL of the Banker SHILLS have their ducks in a row.

Give me a break CrazyBankerMan!!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

CrazyBankerMan, time for you to check this thread out

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

Ray:

Your post was about how the regs have inhibitied Y2K remediation efforts. I do not see how regs like truth in lending, truth in savings, bankers security act, know your customer, etc. have any bearing on whether or not a Y2K remediation project will get done or not.

I do know that regulations specifically guiding what banks need to do and by when have definitely helped Y2K remediation. These regs were started in early 1997, and have developed from there, become more specific as more information became available. Regs are Regs. You don't always like them, but you have to do them. MTR, CTR: I don't like them, seem pointless. Y2K regs: I like them, they definitely have a point. If you can't see where I'm going with this, then I guess there is nothing more to say.

Goin Crazy

-- CrazyBankerMan (bankin@bankaway.com), August 02, 1999.

CrazyBankerMan commented:

"Your post was about how the regs have inhibitied Y2K remediation efforts"

Wrong, my post was about how the multitude of regulations spewed out by government have had to be incorporated in many computer systems over the years. y2k remediation efforts IMHO, have had to deal with these massive changes as well as the existing coding.

Now to the most obnoxious regulation of all "Know Your Customer". This was the frosting on the cake so to speak and led to a tremendous outcry from John Q Public, who finally woke up from his long slumber.

CrazyBankerMan, the fiat money system that has been spawned over the years is about to come home to roost. Unfortunately it will be the little folks that get hurt the worst.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 02, 1999.

Hey CrazyBankerman: ---- How come all the crazy bank mergers? We'd all like to know.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), August 02, 1999.

thinkican

Bank mergers are a part of every day life. I'm quite sure they happened prior to 1999.

Just to make you feel better, there have been A FEW bank mergers due to Y2K. Yes, it has happened. I recon it was easier to merge than remediate for some folks.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 02, 1999.

"I can get any amount of cash in any denominations anytime I want, most likely due to the personal relationship I've made a point of developing over the past 12 years that I've been at that bank. I don't consider this 'wasted time', but rather an investment."

Isn't that special. You're allowed to have access to some of YOUR money because you "invested" in a ration of ass-kissing.

If only the rest of us could be so lucky...

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), August 02, 1999.

Ron: Well said.

When the government gets into everything, politics (suck) becomes everything. And that doofus you responded to thinks he's such hot shit because he's developed a "special relationship" with his banker. I hope he's one of the first to go. Guys like him are a big part of the problem (in the larger sense, not just Y2K) that we face.

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 04, 1999.

I've banked at the same bank for 15 years also, watched a clerk moving all the way up to Bank manager, and now with the merger of my old bank with another one, she's become the branch manager of the bank I switched to in the merger sell off. She knows my banking history and me personally from living in the same neighborhood. I don't kiss ass with her, don't know her much beyond casual weather chats, but since she knows and TRUSTS me, I tell you, it cuts a lot of red-tape. Many times during my banking over the years at her branch, a new clerk would be demanding to verify my signature, or question my transactions, which was annoying, but if I entered the bank and greeted the manager by name right away (which I soon learned to do when she was on duty) I was zipped through my transactions wether the teller knew me or not.

It's all a matter of trust and checking up on suspicious customers. That's what "Personal Service" means, instead of simply being an annonymous number, which one risks of turning into if one never enters the bank personaly but only conduct business via ATM, phone and/or the web.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 04, 1999.

Chris: what I said above applie to you, too. As long as you don't bounce checks and keep you credit card payments up to date, it is none of her (or the government's) business WHERE you get your money, how much or in what form your deposit or withdraw it, or what you do with it.

You are such a dumb frick frickin' sheep, you don't even realize that the shepherd is ramming (reaming) the area of your brown wool.

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 06, 1999.