What happens to people in Hell ...

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I am courios what will happen with these 'people' being in hell after Jesus has established his kingdom and has won his final fight against devil. Will there be a way out for them? Thanks, Franz

-- Franz Waldhaeusl (waldhaeusl@wanadoo.fr), July 29, 1999

Answers

Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Franz - A good question for it has at times tweeked my own. Sadly I believe they will be damned forever having made the free will choice in life to not follow the Father through Christ.

There are some who do make the choice to turn their backs on the Father due to self-love. A Nietzche (spelling please) type of thinking as man as superman.

One thought I also have pondered is after the crucifixioon was Adam and Eve allowed into heaven or wait until the final judgment? An all forgiving God is still a just God. Not the Judiac God of wrath rather the new covenant God of justice and peace. +Peace+

-- jean bouchardRC (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), July 29, 1999.


Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Jean,

A thought: Adam and Eve, other than Christ, were the only two created Perfect that wre able to make a willful, sinless choice. We inherited sin from them even "if" we never commit sin of our own (very rare :>)). We still cannot make a willfull, completly sin free choice. Sin always affect our decision. There was no such influence on Adam and Eve - they were Perfect. Many believe Adam and Eve made their choice - "they chose poorly." :>)

As to the wrath of the "Judiac" God, He is still Justice. And, His wrath will be poured out again (Revelation).

Side note Franz, Hell is the Grave/sheol - Period. There is no more to it. Hell is not the lake of "fire". Hades is not the lake of fire. Gehenna is. Total destruction. Explanation to soon follow in another thread.

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), July 29, 1999.


Response to What happens to people in hell ...

I am afraid that the Catholic church clearly states that Hell exists, will always exist, and will always be a place of confinement for all those who have turned away from God by their actions.

Some claim that Hell does not exist, or if it does, no suffering goes on there. It is very comforting to think that--and very tempting. Many seemingly convincing arguments for this line of thought have been profferred (i.e. Ghenna is a burning junk yard outside of Jerusalem, Hades didn't have any burning fires, the church fathers were trying to incorporate Greco-Roman beliefs into Christianity), but they go against the teachings of the church. When he publishes his "other thread" on this topic, I hope that Jamey will point this out so as not to confuse any who are looking for the answer according to Catholic doctrine.

Hell shall be the total abscence of God. We live here in the hope that we will be with Him some day, and until we die, that hope will always exist. Those who are cast into hell need not suffer any flames and eternal burning, for what greater punishment can a soul have than to be forever denied the love and companionship of it's creator? We cannot even begin to imagine what that emptiness will be like, but we can imagine fire. We can imagine the pain of the burning of our entire bodies. When we make the unrepented decision to turn away from God, we cast ourselves into Hell, and from there we cannot return.

Yours in Christ, Paul

-- Paul T. O'Brien (paulobrien@i.am), July 29, 1999.


Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Go and read the fourth book of "Paradise Lost":

And like a devillish Engine back recoiles Upon himself; horror and doubt distract His troubl'd thoughts, and from the bottom stirr The Hell within him, for within him Hell He brings, and round about him, nor from Hell One step no more then from himself can fly By change of place: Now conscience wakes despair That slumberd, wakes the bitter memorie Of what he was, what is, and what must be Worse; of worse deeds worse sufferings must ensue.

Nay curs'd be thou; since against his thy will Chose freely what it now so justly rues. Me miserable! which way shall I flie Infinite wrauth, and infinite despaire? Which way I flie is Hell; my self am Hell; And in the lowest deep a lower deep Still threatning to devour me opens wide, To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n. O then at last relent: is there no place Left for Repentance, none for Pardon left?

Then go and read the rest; I think Milton's description of Hell is about as accurate as you can get. Hell is a state of mind;

-- Matthew (mdpope@hotmail.com), July 29, 1999.


Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Go and read the fourth book of "Paradise Lost":

And like a devillish Engine back recoiles Upon himself; horror and doubt distract His troubl'd thoughts, and from the bottom stirr The Hell within him, for within him Hell He brings, and round about him, nor from Hell One step no more then from himself can fly By change of place: Now conscience wakes despair That slumberd, wakes the bitter memorie Of what he was, what is, and what must be Worse; of worse deeds worse sufferings must ensue.

Nay curs'd be thou; since against his thy will Chose freely what it now so justly rues. Me miserable! which way shall I flie Infinite wrauth, and infinite despaire? Which way I flie is Hell; my self am Hell; And in the lowest deep a lower deep Still threatning to devour me opens wide, To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n. O then at last relent: is there no place Left for Repentance, none for Pardon left?

Then go and read the rest... I think Milton's description of Hell is about as accurate as you can get. Hell is a state of mind:

A Dungeon horrible, on all sides round As one great Furnace flam'd, yet from those flames No light, but rather darkness visible Serv'd only to discover sights of woe,

I wish I could pretend that it didn't exist, or that there was some escape from it, but there is no evidence for such a position. I'm inclined to think that Hell and death are one and the same at times, but that is only because any existence is preferable to extinction. Eternal damnation is one of the hardest things to accept in Christianity.

Regards

-- Matthew (mdpope@hotmail.com), July 29, 1999.



Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Sorry.. I didn't intend to post twice.. Moderator?

-- Matthew (mdpope@hotmail.com), July 29, 1999.

Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Jamey - I agree in that Adam and Eve were born pure. The influence satan which still exists to-day seduced them into the first sin thereby opening the Plan of Man. Their sin was not planned by God but as a forgiving God always leaves a way out. - Hows That?+Peace+

-- jean bouchardRC (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), July 29, 1999.

Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Paul O'Brien - As a cradle Catholic of 54 I am often offended by types like yourself who preface a statement by " I am afraid..." This speaks to me of pompous arrogance in thinking you and others are correct.

This Catholic has read many avenues of thought on Christinaity and we have severely strayed from the simplicity of Christ given assignment to the The Twelve resulting in the faisco of The Reformation.

Surely true dialogue done with diplomacy is the answer. To listen exchange and learn from one another and return hopefully to the union of Christians. St. Paul wrote of these things and said it well.+Peace+

-- jean bouchardRC (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), July 29, 1999.


Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Paul,

I have no doubt that "hell" exist. It's just not the one most portray.

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), July 30, 1999.


Response to What happens to people in hell ...

I would like to apologize to all who were offended by the phrase "I am afraid." Jean is right to point out its arrogance.

Humbly, Paul

-- Paul T. O'Brien (paulobrien@i.am), August 08, 1999.



Response to What happens to people in hell ...

Hell is both a state of being i.e. definitive seperation from God and an actual place of Divine retribution. Unlike what others have stated here, the torments of hell encapsulate not only a supreme spiritual deprivation but also what is traditionally called the "pain of sense". This refers to a palpable torment of the senses that primarily affects the sense of touch. The burning by fire is used to poignantly illustrate the excruciatingly painful nature of this sensible punishment inflicted by the wrath of God. Of course, this fire can also be accepted in a literal sense as God's tangible manifestation/instrument of retributive justice. Christ called attention to the fires of hell because most of us can be impressed by the severity of this punishment. Few of us can appreciate the far more devastating spiritual effects of eternal separation (the principle punishment of hell) because we are, as of now, so heavily encumbered by corporeal pleasures/consolations that dull our spiritual sensitivity. Regarding whether hell is transitory, since the will of the damned are fixated and confirmed in evil, the possibility of repentance from original and/or mortal sin is simply impossible, hence the eternal duration of hell. Only an orthodox understanding of hell, sans the heretical compromises, instills in one a personally edifying and life-transforming fear of the Lord. Please reflect on not only the supreme torments of hell but also the eternal nature of it. I think the quote in Dante's Inferno says it best, "Abandon hope all ye who enter here." It's the unrelenting despair of the damned who realise that torments beyond imagining are theirs to endure for ever and ever A-N-D E-V-E-R. Not even death or oblivion can console them. One begins to grasp the tremendous gravity of mortal sin and, in so doing, will adamently use every spiritual means at their disposal (the practice of virtue, sacraments, prayer,etc.) to avoid grevious sin. Watering down hell to be something other than the ABSOLUTE WORST UNENDING NIGHTMARE BEYOND IMAGINATION is to fall victim to complacency and spiritual indifference. A "kind", "fair", "politically- correct", "transitory", "pain-less" hell is just what the devil wants you to believe. Don't buy the lie. Your eternal destiny may depend on it.

-- Mark Robert (mstevens@runner.csub.edu), December 23, 2001.

why create us if His ultimate intention and at the very least, knowledge, was that a great deal of us should be destroyed

-- Joe (p_bugman_j@hotmail.com), December 18, 2003.

Subject: What happens to people in Hell ...

Life is what made of it , you can live in heaven or in hell , you decide !! __ But what you mean with heaven or hell , sorry , I don't believe in that !!!!

Salut & Cheers from NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), December 18, 2003.


"... it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish." (Matthew 18:14)

Every human person is born with the opportunity for salvation, won for him or her by Jesus' death on the Cross. The purpose of every earthly human life is to choose or reject the salvation which God freely offers to each of us. Nothing else we do during our short stay on earth will ultimately matter. Choosing salvation is ultimate success as a human being, regardless of how poor or uneducated or unhealthy a person may have been on earth. And failure to choose salvation is ultimate failure as a human being, regardless of how rich or famous or talented or successful a person may have been on earth.

God creates people for the purpose of spending eternity in His presence. But He does not create us as mindless automatons, unable to choose our own destiny. Rather, He endows us with characteristics far superior to those of any other physical creature - free will, moral capacity, intellect - characteristics which make us like Himself. It is because of our ability to freely choose good or evil that heaven is a possibility for us. If God didn't create people whose ultimate free choice of evil was known to Him, then human beings He did create, by definition, would have no choice, no free will, no moral capacity, would therefore not be created in God's image and likeness, and therefore would have no more chance of experiencing eternal life than any other instinct-driven animal. Salvation depends on choice. Choice necessarily means that some will choose evil.

It is not accurate to say that God knows each person's final choice "before they make it". That's how it appears from the viewpoint of our temporal, linear existence. But God does not experience time. For Him there is no "before" or "after". He sees every moment of time stretched out before Him, eternally. Therefore, He eternally knows each person's free choice of salvation or damnation because He is eternally seeing that moment in time when that choice is made. The fact that He sees all of time, and therefore knows what happens in all of time, does not suggest that He therefore influences anything which happens in time, nor does such eternal knowledge have any effect upon the freedom of choice of persons who live in a particular segment of time.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 18, 2003.


Joe said: why create us if His ultimate intention and at the very least, knowledge, was that a great deal of us should be destroyed

God would like all of us to be with him in heaven. He has given us free will, so we can freely choose to love Him or reject Him. If we reject Him and His teaching we will be forever without Him in what we know as hell. It is up to us though to choose Him. He has tried to really get our attention in this matter. He came into the world to save all of mankind (and we crucified Him) and He constantly comes to visit us. Christ's gift to us is peace, what is your gift to Him?

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 19, 2003.



Often when somebody attempts to show another view of hell, my thoughts go back to the words of Jesus Christ. Assuming He described the actual scene, not just a figurative one; this is hell:

''The rich man also died and was buried in hell. And lifting up his eyes, being in torments, he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom and he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have pity on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.''< /i> (Luke 16 :23, :24).

Because the words are not those of a mere man, but Christ the Son of God, I suggest they're definitive. No matter what another source may interpret.

The key words of this lesson to me, are not really ''this flame'', though I can accept flames. ''Have pity on me,'' strikes us to the core. Jesus is saying, We should pity those consigned to the torments of hell. A soul in such a state begging for pity has something extraordinary to say about punishment for sins. It's true, because Jesus said it.

He also said with finality, ''Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away,'' and so, every time I read His words, I will not question even ONE.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 19, 2003.


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