This starts OCTOBER 99! Funny how all these things seem to be coming together:

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20881.html

Your License or Your Life by Declan McCullagh

3:00 a.m. 22.Jul.99.PDT WASHINGTON -- If Representative Lamar Smith has his way, your driver's license will soon sport your Social Security number, whether you like it or not. It may also include microchips encoded with your fingerprints and other personal data. Government agencies will no longer accept as identification licenses that don't meet the new standards.

Smith, a Republican from San Antonio, is firmly convinced the new features will reduce immigration. Not only is he doggedly opposed to illegal immigration, he wants to reduce legal immigration, insisting that low-skilled workers compete with US citizens for entry-level jobs.

At a hearing Thursday, the House Immigration subcommittee will debate the future of modified driver licenses, which detractors derisively call a "national ID card."

Since Smith heads the subcommittee, his opponents have had an uphill battle. Making their fight even more difficult is the fact that Congress approved the new license rules in 1996. Civil liberties and privacy groups are doggedly attempting to repeal the law before it takes effect next year.

So far, they've had little success. It's true that in 1998 they managed to get the Transportation Department to delay following through on regulations for a year. But that temporary setback expires in October 1999. They had no luck in inserting a flat-out repeal in a transportation spending bill last month.

"We're urging Congress to reverse course on national IDs," said Greg Nojeim, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union.

"Too many proposals to combat illegal immigration instead limit the rights and freedoms of Americans. We don't need a national ID card to be the legacy of efforts to keep undocumented people from working."

The ACLU is part of a coalition with other liberal groups, such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Electronic Privacy Information Center. But the alliance also includes arch-conservative organizations: the Eagle Forum, the Free Congress Foundation, and Americans for Tax Reform.

The organizations found common ground in what they uniformly believe is a serious threat to privacy. "Proposals for a national ID have been consistently rejected in the United States as an infringement of personal liberty," said a recent coalition letter urging Congress to nix the current law.

We care about this hearing because there are other members that are receptive to privacy concerns. While Lamar Smith is on the other side, other members need to hear what's going on," said Lori Cole, a spokesman for the Eagle Forum's office in Washington.

For his part, Smith angrily denies that he's Big Brother incarnate in a note he posted on his Web site: "I do not support a national ID card and don't know anyone who does."

In response to the 1996 law that requires "security features" in licenses, the Department of Transportation in June 1998 proposed that states must encode SSNs (and possibly digitized fingerprints) onto drivers licenses.

After October 2000, the feds will require these new licenses if people want to use any government service, board an airplane, be eligible for Medicare -- in other words, live a normal life and do the everyday things most Americans take for granted.

The DOT will be allowed to proceed in October 1999, unless Congress acts.

"The states are concerned that they will be legally obligated to encode information in drivers licenses and collect Social Security numbers," says one Hill source. The National Conference of State Legislators and the National Association of Counties have joined the coalition.

They sent a letter to House Speaker Dennis Hastert on 30 June urging Congress to repeal Section 656 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibilities Act of 1996.

Another letter signed by six Congressmen urges colleagues to support a repeal measure -- the Privacy Protection Act -- introduced by Representative Ron Paul (R-Texas).

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), July 23, 1999

Answers

Anyone out there from Illinios? i understand that this is already implemented there..

s

-- Sharon Schultz (shalom100@aol.com), July 23, 1999.

Yes, we know what this could lead to, a microchip implant in the right hand or forehead of every man woman and child. Just another reason why I think we'll see some serious problems beginning in 2000. Mankind has placed his faith in this technology. Our lives now depend on it. Most people think all this technology is great, and it is. But with most things, there's a potential dark side to all of this.

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), July 23, 1999.

My Ohio driver's license issued 04/10/98 (note two digit date in use on drivers license) sports two duplicate phote IDs and my SS# along with written gender, height, weight hair color, eye color.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), July 23, 1999.

Just one more step in the on going push toward socialism and loss of freedom.....

-- eohoward (oldchief@earthlink.net), July 23, 1999.

Sharon,

I live in Illinois. SS #'s are on our Drivers Licences, along with a holographic image to make duplication more difficult.

Fingerprints & microchips are not included.

Ours too, sport two digit dates.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

Heres an anecdotal tid-bit for what its worth.

Good GI friend was hitchhiking up the 101 when she got picked up by a truck driver. He started to talk to her about Y2k. It took her a while to convince him that she knew what Y2k was and that she got it. Then they had a good talk. Trucker had been in the National Guard and still had buddies there. Told her that according to his buddies the govt was going to divide the country into 4 quarters and you would need a special Driver's License to get from one to the other.

Is it true? Who knows maybe the guy was just making it all up. Maybe not. Time will tell.

Meanwhile your drivers' licenses already carries the specs on everything anyone would want to know about you. Thats why that encoded magnetic strip is on the back.

Finally a word to the wise about embedded chips implanted in your body or anyone else on your person. Good magnet will wipe that puppy out. If you are concerned about bio-implanted chips in you or anyone else I suggest you add magnets to your prep list.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), July 23, 1999.

Its interesting what some of you are reporting.

In Wisconsin, we (at least mine - expires in 2001) don't have SSN or magnetic strips. The real concern is what might be added and required. "Papers Please" is a command we all should "fear"

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), July 23, 1999.

To R:

I don't need a magnet, because I don't plan on accepting a microchip implant, period! I know what this means (Rev 13:16-18). I will head to the hills if this happens. Come on, let's not be ignorant. You are certainly not in the wise category!

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), July 23, 1999.

snip.... -- If Representative Lamar Smith has his way, your driver's license will soon sport your Social Security number, whether you like it or not. It may also include microchips encoded with your fingerprints and other personal data. Government agencies will no longer accept as identification licenses that don't meet the new standards. end snip.................begin " BS "....Smith, a Republican from San Antonio, is firmly convinced the new features will reduce immigration. Bwah,ha,ha,ha. It won't change the problem with immigration in the least. Besides,as Larry ( above ) states Uncle Sam is about to get a hard lesson on their Technology Dependant Limitations real soon.

-- kevin (innxxs@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

Larry Dahling,

Of course I would never submit to a chip implant but did it occur to you that you might not always have a choice? What if you were a prison inmate or in the military. What if someone you knew had a chip implanted due to reasons beyond their control? What if the military put chips in all their troops. Suppose one soldier stumbled onto your compound. Regardless if that soldier lives or dies by your hand there will still be the problem of that pesky chip which will act like a homing device.

Be wise and be smart Larry. Get magnets.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), July 23, 1999.

Click the link below to get an idea where all of this started:

Land Mine Legislation by Claire Wolfe

-- Jim Morris (prism@bevcomm.net), July 23, 1999.

When I lived in Arizona ten years ago, you SS# was your drivers license number....

snoozin'....

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 23, 1999.

In Texas you are now required to present your SS card when renewing your license. Fingerprints are taken. When the magnetic strip on the back of your license is "swiped" it gives them ALL of your information.

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), July 23, 1999.

Quit runnin' around so much at night Dog, we're gonna need your help! Ya snooze, ya loose, ha.

:)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 23, 1999.

Damn cats... they just won't let me play with them...

snoozin'...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 23, 1999.

cats rule, dogs drool

-- Brooks the cat (brooksbie@hotmail.com), July 23, 1999.

OK cat,

I'm watchin' you now.....

stalkin' the cat...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 23, 1999.

In Kentucky, it used to be that your SSN was your driver's license number as well. A law was passed in Kentucky in the last few years, though, taking the SSN off of licenses. The reasoning behind the new law is that it's too easy for someone else to, say, apply for credit by mail or by phone in your name if they know your SSN.

I don't think a person should have to let another person know what their SSN is just to prove who they are. That's what the picture is for. If there's a legitimate need to know a person's SSN, the Social Security card could be asked for in addition to the driver's license.

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), July 23, 1999.

RE: division into "four regions" The federal resource agencies are already functioning on the basis of "provinces" comprised of "bioregions" or "eco-regions" - areas configured by geographic/watershed features, of similar climate, vegetation and species. These cross state and other jurisdictional lines. (View the websites of the Bureau of Land Management and the US forest Service for more information.)

Both the Forest Service and the BLM operate "multiple use" resource councils on this basis. Federal Task Forces for larger watersheds that cross state lines also operate on this basis. There are also "biodiversity Councils" already set up and functioning for years. (For instance, we are in the "Klamath Bioregion." A County Supervisor sits on one of the sub-Klamath biodiversity Councils. On the State level, there is a special multi-state/federal agency Executive Council that operates under a Memmorandum of Understanding to "collaborate" on enforcement of Council agreements through powers under their jurisdiction.

Is this a "shadow government" already in place and operational? To some extent and for some purposes. Don't know how this would play out, if at all, but might, should some amount of environmental chaos ensue. It is much easier to eliminate any vestige of state, local or tribal sovereignty by forming councils and committees under this configuration.

I always get an uneasy twinge when the agencies refer to the area I live as a "province."

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), July 23, 1999.

R--

You're not understanding my point. My point is from a Biblical sense in the event the chip implant is a fulfillment of Revelations, called the "Mark of the Beast." We won't know for sure until it happens. You will have a choice to accept the "Mark." It will not be forced on you according the the Bible. That's the point. It's a salvation issue. Nobody can force you to accept the Antichrist's mark. Doing so will damn you eternally; therefore it will be your choice such as in accepting a driver's license or something. You can relate to that can't you? Nobody has forced you, but you have one out of necessity. That's the point

This is what the Bible teaches. It is from a Biblical point of view. If you don't believe this, well, then that's another issue that we won't go into.

When will this happen? It will happen at a time when "Nations are in distress with perplexity." Could y2k cause nations to be in distress with perplexity? We will know for sure shortly. But the bottom line is that you will have a choice.

I've gotten responses like yours for years now, and I always respond the same way.

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), July 23, 1999.

Larry,Jon,Link,etc.

Just throwing out an idea here. What if this y2k thingy cause the financial system in it's current form to collapse? If that happens, does it then become more concievable that a "new and improved" system might be introduced? A once in a lifetime opportunity, no? If so could this new system contain elements of microchips? Also, if the world goes into a tailspin, could not this great leader arise who would bring the world "peace"?

Counterpoint. According to the Bible, during that time, many will be decieved and if God didn't cut those hours short, even the very "elect"(followers of God) would be decieved. So if Christians everywhere are expecting this to be it, and it's not, there may be a massive falling away of faith. And then, later down the road the real SHTF and no one believe's it. Hence the mass deception.

What do you think?

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), July 23, 1999.

Here in NJ there is no magnetic strip or SS# though your year/mo of birth and the year of first issuance is encoded in your drivers licence number (as well as appearing on the card itself). Govenor Whitman wanted them but met with too much resistence from various citizens groups to make it happen.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), July 23, 1999.

Cygnus**

I agree 100%. I wouldn't go so far as to try to predict whay MAY happen, but it certainly is an excellent "set up".

Just one of many factors APPARENTLY coming together.

This fall/winter will be extremely interesting and revealing.

-- Jon Jonson (narnia4@usa.net), July 23, 1999.

TECH,

Renewed your registration lately? Check out the bar code on the front. That's no UPC-type deal. I don't know what's encoded in there, but it gives me the willies every time I look at it.

-- Thinman (thinman38@hotmail.com), July 23, 1999.

PA had SS# on license a few years ago. It was removed after public outcry. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

Thinman,

Renewed your registration lately? Check out the bar code on the front. That's no UPC-type deal. I don't know what's encoded in there, but it gives me the willies every time I look at it.

Yes, in March and I have no barcode. My wifes car, renewed in May, does. The barcode doesn't seem to be that long so it really can't hold that much info. I'm guessing it's just the VIN or the registration number, both of which are already visible through the windshield. A bar-code will let an office writing you a ticket scan the info without making a stupid human mistake such as transposing numbers (which, btw, is a valid reason for getting a ticket thrown out). I don't think it's anything sinister.

Now those friggin 'Easy-Pass' systems are just flat out evil and I won't allow anyone in my family to use them. Keeps track of EVERYWHERE you've gone, at what time of day, and can be read from passing traffic by a police officer with a scanner. I don't allow my wife to use those frequent shopper cards either...

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), July 23, 1999.

Cygnus--

My theory is that if y2k causes significant disruptions, we may need to go to another system. This will occur if the economy collapses. The banks will have to go down for this to happen and we will need some otehr way of conduction business without the banks. Think about it! Notice we don't need the power grid and telephones to go down or anything for this to occur. Business failures alone will do it.

A man, (the Antichrist) "who will enter peaceably, but honors the god of forces" will have a solution out of this mess. Scholars (I'm not one, just a student who has studied their writings) believe the mark of the beast could fit the bill.

We have to be careful, because if this doesn't happen and y2k becomes a 1 or a 2, then this disruption may not occur. People will no longer believe prophecy and it will become a tough bill to sell when something does occur. So I say this being guarded.

Having said that, I do think y2k is a potential level 7. I know this, because fixes are still going on. This tells me testing will suffer. Experienced programmers know this. The public thinks if fixes are going on, then we're ok. 2000, may start out a 1,2,3,4 or 5. Who knows? But since few people are preparing, a 3,4 or 5 can turn into an ugly 6 or 7 fast.

When talking about the "elect" group a lot of people get confused. If you believe in the rapture theory, then the elect group won't be us. We will be gone when the Antichrist signs the peace contract with Israel (Dan 9:26+). Whether you do or not, the "elect" may pertain to the Jews because in that same passage (if my memory serves me) the word "synagogue" is used within context. The "elect" also pertains to Christians. So they are 2 separate groups. So it depends on the passage being used.

These issues are complex and lots of time is required to explain all of this.

But when will all of this happen? When Israel revives (Matt 24:32+), When knowledge is increased (Dan 12), When 6000 years have elapsed beginning from Adam (2 Peter 3:8, I believe) 4000 years from Adam to Christ and another 2000 = 6000 and a day is as a thousand years in God's sight, the seventh day is spoken of in Rev 20. When Ancient Rome (now EU) revives (Daniels dream), When a world church is formed (World Council of Churches), when you see signs from heaven (Luke 21:11, I believe) think about the crop circles (the ones that weren't man made), Crying Madonnas, UFO's, animals found mysteriously dead in fields... Just to name a few. These are signs for us. To do what? Pepare.

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), July 23, 1999.

TECH,

Not to beat a dead horse, but look at that thing again. Looks like the second generation bar code I've heard about; holds a lot more info than the UPC on your Corn Flakes.

-- Thinman (thinman38@hotmail.com), July 23, 1999.

I just checked my new (renewed in May - good for 4 years), driver's license, and it does have a magnetic strip on the back, and it is the new improved holographic image kind.

...Good news is. This year I had the option of using a random number instead of my SS#. Four years ago (in 1995) the RMV said that according to the State of Massachusetts I had to use my SS#. As The Dog said my SS# was my drivers license number.

...Bad news is. Well of course I could use a random number on the front of my license because "they" (whoever they may be) already have a record of my SS# from my previous license, right? So... it is safe to assume that my SS# is now encoded on that little magnetic strip on the back, along with who knows what else.

If next time 'they' tell me I have to be fingerprinted, I think I'll decline. Will just get myself a bus pass - thank you very much!

Actually, I do, in the not so distant future, foresee the National ID card being mandatory, complete with digitized photo and fingerprints on the front, and SS#, blood type (for your own protection of course), religion maybe?, etc., etc., (you fill in the blanks) on the magnetic strip on the back.

Let me say that I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, a conspiracy theorist, nor do I consider myself certifiably paranoid, but I am old enough and have paid attention long enough to realize the slow deliberate evolution of socialism when I see it.

As for the microchip implant. Well, 'they' already use them - on your pets - so you won't loose your pet. Like a LoJack. Many hospitals use them (externally for now) on newborns, to reduce the risk of someone stealing your baby.

One step at a time! That's how it's done.

-- flb (fben4077@aol.com), July 23, 1999.

A few years ago Georgia replaced the drivers license # with the SS#. I didn't like having to show my SS# every time I cashed a check, so I moved back to Florida in '96.

DJ

-- DJ (reality@check.com), July 23, 1999.

Here in PA, we have the lovely magnetic strip on the back of the DL. I am tempted to just remove the damn thing.

It doesn't matter to the govt if your SSN is on the DL or not; unless you refused to provide it the FIRST time you got a DL, they have it. A random number is useless in my opinion.

I will refuse to take the new DL/ID card. IF they don't like, too damn bad. If they want to arrest me, for not having the card, good luck fella. I'll be living in the woods before I go to prison (where you can get AIDS real easy and die there because some dude raped you).

I just can't take it much longer, all this coming oppression, on top of what I'm already aware of. I HOPE Y2K takes the system DOWN hard, otherwise most of us will be slaves on the global plantation real soon.

-- Bill (billclo@msgbox.com), July 23, 1999.

No way are we going to take any implant...would starve first. If the good Lord wanted me to have the implant I would have been born with one.

-- A Couple!!! (netdevil123@hotmail.com), July 24, 1999.