Has Dennis lost it?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
This is a response from Dennis Olson to one of my posts in a thread from Michael Hyatt's Y2K Prep Forum. I have to wonder how representative of the average doomer's views it is:
Whether or not YOU, personally, have done anything to prepare matters not. IF you do nothing, and IF there are major disruptions to the supply system, could you look your starving little girl or boy in the face and say "I'm sorry sweetheart, but daddy can't feed you. There's no food..." If that child dies because of YOUR stupidity, YOU WILL BURN IN HELL.
I consider that to be FACT, not arrogance.
Freeze if you want. Starve if you want. I couldn't care less. Just don't force others to ride that train WITH YOU. (And I wouldn't go to the neighbor's house looking for a handout either, if I were you. If a guy like you showed up at MY door, you'd be escorted to the street at the busness end of an assault rifle.
You pollys are so stupid that you don't even realize HOW STUPID YOU ARE. Insurance is CHEAP compared to the STAKES *IF* things go sour. But people like YOU refuse to internalize that. "It can't happen, businesses wouldn't let it", or "The government will step in", or "Bill Gates will fix it"... Which of those lines is in the back of YOUR head right now, PasserBy?
And the most IRONIC part of the ENTIRE Y2K mess is that if there's any panic, it'll be people like YOU who are DOING IT! If there are food riots, it'll be people like YOU who are RIOTING!
That is truly EPIC justice. Those of us that have "insurance" just have to pick you people off before you break in to our homes. Outside of THAT, we'll just sit back and watch you people die off.
Darwin would be proud....
(Oh, and I'm not in insurance. I'm a computer consultant with over 25 years in the business. So are the peers with whom I communicate, who tell me the same thing: we're in the crapper boys...)
171 days remain.
All I can say in response, Dennis, is that if any of us are on the road to Hell, then given your contempt and disregard for the vast majority of your fellow man, you must be a good few lengths ahead of me.
-- Richard Dymond (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 15, 1999
The guy is afriad of the "unknown"
But if a person is protecting his family........
As I say, what ever you spent on your computer and, or car, that is what you should spend on taking care of your family. Which is worth more?
-- Brian (email@example.com), July 15, 1999.
Richard, he got emotional, and I understand where he's coming from. People are not as concerned about this thing as they should be, and by the time they are, it will be too late to do anything about it. I'm afraid the evidence at this time is crystal clear that this well oiled machine we call civilization is headed for a train wreck.
-- a (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 15, 1999.
You make ONE erroneous point, Mr. Dymond. You said:
>...given your contempt and disregard for the vast majority of your fellow man, you must be a good few lengths ahead of me.
I do NOT hold the vast majority of my fellow human beings in contept. I hold YOU in contempt. You and ALL pollyannas. YOU people WILL CAUSE ANY PANIC, as, at the last moment, you "freak out" and make a run on the banks and stores. *I* will be sitting in my living room WATCHING you on the news... and laughing my ass off!
*MY* family is taken care of; food, water, heat, power, gasoline, and protection (from people like YOU!) I am perfectly happy to "wait it out", *IF* things go sour.
I stand by EVERY WORD above, and urge others to follow Mr. Dymond's hotlink. BTW big boy, if I really WERE a "doomer", I wouldn't prepare at all! What would be the point? We'd all be "doomed", RIGHT?
Mr. Dymond, another ticket holder on the flaming death train to Club Dead.
169 days remain.
-- Dennis (email@example.com), July 15, 1999.
"Those of us that have "insurance" just have to pick you people off before you break in to our homes. Outside of THAT, we'll just sit back and watch you people die off.
Darwin would be proud...."
Sounds like another Doomer who can hardly wait to shoot a fellow human being - and hopes that Y2K will give him an opportunity.
Doomers: The kind of people who slow down at traffic accidents in the hope of seeing some blood...
-- Y2K Pro (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 15, 1999.
Richard, you ask, How representative ... of the average doomer...? I dont think anyone is qualified to answer your question since you neither define doomer nor has there been any sampling I know of which to average.
While I somehow doubt whether your rhetorical question was intended to provoke a serious answer but instead to hold Dennis Olsen up for ridicule, I am willing to examine his statement and determine if he represents my views.
1. Richard Dymonds failure to prepare resulting in dependents deaths will consequently cause Richard Dymonds condemnation to Hell.
Somewhat Representative: Obviously, we are all Gods dependents. As God has prepared for all our potential needs, parents should do likewise for their children. Refusal, in the face of risk, is failure to emulate Gods loving example toward us; therefore, one can expect certainly expect consequences.
Not Representative: Burn in Hell - I certainly refuse to say specifically if Richard Dymond is going to Hell. For me, the only important issue regarding Hell is my own sinfulness, lack of humility and unwillingness to ask for forgiveness.
2. If Richard Dymond doesnt prepare (today) it is because Richard Dymond wants to freeze or starve (undefined future date).
Not Representative: Not likely. If Richard Dymond doesnt prepare for an anticipated possible emergency today, its most likely that Richard Dymond simply does not perceive Y2K supply problems or resultant social instability as a problem today. If fact, its not a problem today. Whats true is Y2K is a management and programming problem today. Since I am neither management nor a programmer, its not a problem.
3. I dont care if Richard Dymond starves or freezes to death, if thats Richards choice.
Not Representative: I care if Richard starves or freezes to death regardless of whether its your choice or not. I do not care only for people who are right. However, a more pertinent question is will I be in a position to demonstrate my care for Richard Dymond and his children without withdrawing care for my wife, my ex wife, my four children, and my father-in-law. I know my doctor cares for me, too. Unfortunately, if his office is closed Im not quite sure how effective his care would be.
4. Dont force others to suffer the consequences of your ill- preparedness.
Not Representative: Richard, if you dont have any dependent children, you cant force anyone. There are plenty of examples of marriages where only one spouse is willing to act in preparation. Its a myth that total mutual agreement is an inherent requirement for action.
5. I wouldnt go to a neighbors house looking for a handout.
Not Representative: If in absolutely desperate conditions, I would go looking for a charity if I had nothing to trade for value received. Id start with the neighbors, after all, its the easiest place to get to, they might recognize me and not shoot on sight. Now that I think about it, it would be best to probably put the children in front. . .
6. Dont realize how stupid you are.
Absolutely Representative. I know denial has gotten a bad name from all those 12 Step groups out there, but I think denial is a normal, useful mental and emotional pain-killer. Listen, there have been several times I can easily count in my past that if I had realized all at once just how stupid I was I might have blown my brains out. Denial gives me a chance to change my position gradually, lets me get moving in the right direction and taking action without having to make some kind of full mental confession. I like denial, so dont expect me to criticize it in others.
7. Only the unprepared panic.
Not representative. People who look only to others and their own individual resources panic. People who are hopeless panic. People who have never experienced being saved by outside help when they are in deep trouble beyond their resources panic. Panic is also an infectious mass response. Id bet that even a prepared person surrounded by others in panic would most likely panic. Read Kiplings Gunga Dinn.
8. This is epic justice - shooting Richard as he tries to break into my home . . .
Somewhat Representative: Richard, if you try to force into my home now, at night, and I reasonably believe you have lethal capabilities it is just for me to respond with lethal force immediately until I perceive your lethal capability is removed. By your actions you have denied me both the opportunity to identify you and the opportunity to give you Christian charity. If the break-in is during the day, I would first consider it my duty to attempt to apprehend you first if there is a reasonable opportunity so I might turn you over to civil authority later alive. Is this epic justice? No, just prudent behavior on my part.
9. Darwin proud . . .
No. Darwin died a sick, miserable old man doubting the veracity of his own evolutionary theory.
-- Karl Bowman (email@example.com), July 15, 1999.
Pro, go such an egg. Dennis is justed pissed at pollies because they have had the opportunity to get it, but instead choose not to, and degrade GI's ontop of it. And Dennis is correct when he says a true "Doomer" would not prepare at all. Only GI's prepare.
-- Mike (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 15, 1999.
What's wrong with stopping to see some blood?
-- Y2K Pro (email@example.com), July 15, 1999.
Has Y2K Pro lost it?
-- GeeGee (GeeGee@madtown.com), July 15, 1999.
I have always had a problem with the term "doomer". Unlike pollyanna, it is not a word with much history. It also begs the question (makes an inherent assumption) that is highly arguable. Most GIs will IMHO likely agree that pollys are much more likely to cause problems next year than are prepared GIs; WE won't be freaking out and trying to loot before the end of the first week! Pollys are more apt to cause problems("doom" if severe enough) next year, not GIs, and the "er" suffix means "one who does" (like baker means one who bakes), then... Congratulations, Y2KPro, & company! You have just been awarded the epithet of DOOMER.
From a 9.5 preparing GI nondoomer.
-- MinnesotaSmith (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 15, 1999.
Why are you whining because of what Dennis says? If you think there will be no problems, just feel sorry for him. Otherwise, get your gear together to feed your family.
-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), July 15, 1999.
I wasn't actually asking a question (just wondering to myself), but thanks for your response, anyway.
You say: "I hold YOU in contempt. You and ALL pollyannas." I think you'll find that, by your own standards, most people are pollyannas. It was on that assumption that I made the "vast majority of your fellow man" comment.
Who's whining? I was just observing Dennis's attitude towards "pollys", which I consider to be somewhat extreme, and perhaps suggestive of a dangerously violent temperament. I would hope that in having such an attitude, Dennis belongs to a small minority.
-- Richard Dymond (email@example.com), July 16, 1999.
POLLYANNA <> GENERAL PUBLIC (they're just uninformed/apathetic)
A pollyanna (my personal definition) is a person who 1) thinks the whole issue is a hoax, 2) actively advocates NO PREPARATION or consideration of the issues, and 3) claims they KNOW that everything will be "okay".
IMO, ANYONE WHO SAYS THEY *KNOW* WHAT WILL HAPPEN AT ROLLOVER IS EITHER LYING, OR SERIOUSLY MISINFORMED. PERIOD.
I feel that the polly crowd should be muzzled. Their arrogant presumption that nothing will happen is an extremely DANGEROUS line or reasoning. If their beliefs prevail (and they ARE, at least to this point) and BAD THINGS happen, millions could end up suffering, whereas a bit or preparation might have saved them.
But the pollys are too wrapped up in themselves to allow these random thoughts of reality to intrude. The more people who listen to them, the more that will suffer *IF*... Yup. Great thinkers and leaders all. I think the term used on this board is "BIG BRAINS".
Idiots, one and all.
And BTW, I have the right in this country (1st amendment, remember?) to be as angry as I want, and to express it verbally in any way I please, as long as I don't threaten a specific person. And I have that right free of second guessing by YOU Dymond, or ANYONE ELSE.
Just don't come to MY house begging for food. I hope you (and those pollys like you) suffer greatly for your arrogance and abject stupidity. IMO, you people are all sub-human, and deserve to be treated as such (*IF*).
-- Dennis (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 16, 1999.
While Dennis may sound a bit militant right now I can tell you that he has spent countless hours contributing to the Y2K debate. I have found his posts to be extremely helpful in the past as I have been prepping for the coming chaos.
I can understand how a newbie (either GI or DGI) would mistake Dennis' intentions. What I cannot understand is how DGI's insist on coming to prep forums. Talk about galking (sp?) at accident scenes.
Pollys: If you are not of like mind, why do you insist on contributing to these forums? Do you feel some need to "set us GI's straight?" Are you somehow doing society a great favor by distracting the discussion threads away from preps, etc. towards questioning the veracity of potential Y2K failures?
Do your loved ones a favor (and the rest of us who really don't want to engage in violence to protect our families and preps, Dennis included no doubt) and start preparing NOW. The hour is short and the task great. Do it secretly in you must but do it NOW.
What is there for you to lose? Pride?
-- tangbang (email@example.com), July 16, 1999.