I have a few questions about some different types of gear I have seen out on the web but have had no first hand experience with. I am looking for people who have knowledge of these products to respond.

Baygen products - the wind up flashlight / wind up radio/ solar adaptor and battery charger. Has anyone used these? Has the performance been satisfactory? Problems encounered?

"Hand powered" flashlight - works with hand-pumping action-- Do they really work? Experiences?

"White LED Flashlight" - any experiences? Overall product impression? Do they really last as long as they say (batterwise and no bulbs needing replacement-wise?

Katadyne pocket filter for water - user satisfaction? How do you know when it's no longer filtering (claims to filter 13,000 gallons-- how to keep track or how to know when it's no longer filtering adequately)? Is there a way to make sure all the water is drained out of the filter so as to avoid problems with it freezing up?

Somewhat related, but different, I have a few questions about lamp oil: Does anyone know the average rate at which oil in an oil lamp burns (how much per hour, avg. flame height-- or how many hours per ounce)? What about the freezing point (temp) of lamp oil?

Thanks much, Winter Wondering

-- winter wondering (don'temailme@posthere.com), July 07, 1999

Answers

We have a BayGen radio. Works great both in wind up mode and with the included solar cells.

-- Terry Furnell (tfurnell@bigfoot.com), July 07, 1999.

We've had a hand-wound flashlight for years, carry it in the car all the time. Don't have to worry about batteries going bad inside a hot car.

White LED's appear to work as well as colored ones, but are more expensive because of scarcity. I think OddOne is still planning to do another bulk order, but then you gotta put it together. See how to do it at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/4397/.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), July 07, 1999.

winter -- suggest you post this over on the Y2K Prep forum that is new companion to this one. Link to is available from the "about" button on the TB2K home page.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), July 07, 1999.

Winter Wondering,

Have you visited the new Preparations Only version of this forum? Guaranteed you will get a bazillion answers from very knowledgeable folks if you post your questions there: Preps only

Good Luck!

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), July 07, 1999.

I didn't know there were other LED flashlights out there (non white)... How do the non-white LED flashlights compare? (Pricewise, light output-wise, durability-wise and how long-lasting)? Thanks.

-- winter wondering (don'temailme@posthere.com), July 07, 1999.

Winter Wondering,

 Baygen works great.

 Have a different wind-up flashlight/radio which is okay.

 Dont have the White LED Flashlight, but considering it. (Love the battery-operated Maglights tho. Especially the purse/pocket size with the little carrying case--in the event of earthquake and other sudden lights out situations).

 Havent tested the Katadyne pocket filter yet, but others Ive used seen fine.

Diane

URL code for the...

NEW!!!

TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) Preparation Forum (Y2K Prep Only Discussions)

http:// www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic= TimeBomb%202000%20%28Y2000%29%20Preparation%20Forum

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 07, 1999.

Thanks for the notes about the prep forum. I have now posted this question there, as well.

What are the appropriate topics for posting at this 'original' forum?

TIA,

winter wondering

-- winter wondering (don'temailme@posthere.com), July 07, 1999.

I answered that question this way while talking about a pair of trolls who were not making any sense (and wasting people's time) a couple of days ago: hope it clarifies things.

<<.. the forum is intended to be a training and teaching tool. Now, I really don't care what anybody teaches anybody else - as long as it revolves around ether of the people, places or things affected by the potential troubles next year. Since everything (and everybody) is potentially affected, and since any lesson on any topic can be related in some way back to a year 2000 topic, I don't consider very much Off-Topic. >>

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 07, 1999.

Pricing nonwhite LEDs.

RS 1/4 watt resistor assortment pack is about $3, can make 8 LED bulbs from it. (You just want the 47 ohm 1/4 watt resistors.) Pair of bayonet-base bulbs is about $2, so 4 packs is about $8 (again, to make 8 bulbs). Use burned-out bulbs, if you have them. LEDs from RS run maybe $3, so 8 of those is $24 or so. So you can do 8 LED bulbs for about $35. Each one runs on 2 1.5 volt cells (your standard 2-cell flashlight). Give them to friends, whatever.

If you have solder pencil, other tools, just follow the pictures at OneOne's site. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/4397/ (He was very nice to carry the layout, I'm the hands in the pictures, my wife did the photography.)

-- bw (home@puget.sound), July 07, 1999.

Hi Folks. Below are some of my impressions of the following equipment, that I have used: (stated at the beginning so as not to waste anyones time on the long post) There is no info in this post on the LED flashlight.

-Baygen flashlights and radios -Katadyn water purifiers (and the competitor brands) -Recommended flashlights

Baygen Products: First my impressions on the Baygen. They are a waste of money, and the service is terrible. I bought the flashlight; after using it for a few weeks on a regular basis, the switch would not stay in the off position, and kept popping out of place. A problem if the spring is being stopped to conserve spring energy.

Several months ago I ordered a shortwave Baygen radio from a mail order company. After a short while the radio began to make LOUD popping sounds from the spring as it unwound. I sent it back to BayGen in NY. I waited over a month to get a replacement, but this time the on/off switch was very loose. I sent that unit back and 7 weeks later got another radio that had a missing dial cover. I sent that unit back and a month later got another unit. This unit, again, made loud popping sounds, like the first one I returned.

I did buy the AM/FM radio with solar panel for my parents, this radio seemed to be OK, but I have heard complaints about these as well on some web sites.

Water Filters: Im an experienced backpacker and did quite a bit of research on filters. We live in an apartment in a country area along a river, so my water solution is to purify. I picked up an MSR Miniworks and Waterworks, with enough filters to carry 1600 gallons. My friends have many types of filters which has given me some insight into their operation. Below are my impressions of each and why I bought an MSR.

For years I used a First Need, later went to a Sweetwater (now out of business). The First Need is a great filter but is heavy (consideration only to backpackers). Im not sure if it has a charcoal filter but it claims to be able to filter our some chemicals. It is somewhat awkward to use and I spilled my fresh water container more than once in the process of filtering. I then went to a Sweetwater but this had the annoying habit of spraying water when pumped to fast. First Need filters are hard to find and of course the Sweetwater is no longer made.

My requirements were thus; to have a filter that can be put into a puddle of excrement and pull out clean water. I wanted a bottle top adaptor like my Sweetwater, and a charcoal filter that would take out iodine/bleach, since the water might be treated like this prior to filtering. I have a good amount of respect for this aspect of survival. Ten years ago I was in the hospital for a week with what was probably a parasitic infection from the Catskills. I treated the water with iodine AND a filter, and still got sick. More than likely, a drop or aerosol particle of contaminated water got on the threads of a bottle being filled.

A friend has a Katadyn. Ive tried both models and they are VERY hard to force water through, but very durable. The disadvantage is that the Katadyn will not take out viruses and has no charcoal filter, which will take out some chemicals. The Katadyn mini has two models, regular filter and charcoal filter. Cant have both. The filters treat an emormous amount of water in their lifetime. I didnt buy a Katadyn because the filters are imported, and they are difficult to pump (I consider this important, after using my friends for 4 days). To treat for viruses and iodine I would have to use iodine, THEN the filter, THEN another charcoal filter like a Brita. They are also pretty expensive and I wanted to buy a backup. In the event Y2K blows over, my spare is going to be donated to missionaries in the Soviet Union, and I didnt want to go nuts with the expense.

Two friends have Pur. Great for virus protection, however there is no way to tell when the iodine matrix has lost its effectiveness. The filters are also paper which I have read is subject to tearing while filtering in some tests. In cold backpacking climates this can happen more frequently. They pump very hard compared to an MSR. Finally, I want to remove all chemicals from the water to avoid liver damage.

I spent about 30 minutes on the phone talking to MSRs Waterworks designer. There are a number of attractive features for the Mini/ Waterworks. - Screwtop adaptor so dirty particles are sealed off from the filter process. - Clear filter body. - Filter replacement gauge built into the body. - Ease of pumping! - Inner core of charcoal under the ceramic filter, to remore chemicals. - Miniworks is used by the US military after tests. - Entire filter can be disassembled. - The designer told me that although the packaging states filter to .02 micron, most particles are caught at .01 and they are doing more tests to make that claim. - The relatively inexpensive filter and cartridges ($30) might be used for barter. - MSR says that all filters are produced at one small plant in the US, and with current (hopefully compliant) technology. -Overpressure relief valve to avoid injection of contaminated water.

The disadvantage of the MSR is the number of parts, which can be lost during repair. The filters also only get about 150 gallons per. They also obviously require an iodine pre-treat to kill viruses. Ive used the filter in human excrement-exposed water (found out after filtering that some yuppies were crapping and peeing into the stream at a campsite up from us) with no ill results. My friend used his Pur during this incident and also had no aftereffects, but once again the other filters are hard to pump compared to an MSR. This is NO small consideration if I have to pump 5 gallons a day (members of my family may be dependent, and refuse to make plans)

MSR makes dromendary bags which screw on the filters. They are black and heat up water pretty well, as this is a consideration in New England.

Thoughts on Flashlights: Buy only products that use AA or AAA batteries; during panics everyone needs D and C cells for the monster flashlights they have bought. If you need D and C cells, then buy battery sleeve adaptors, that will take a AA and make it into a D cell. Available from the Nitro-Pak catalog. Petzl makes good headlamps. MAKE SURE YOU BUY LAMPS THAT ALLOW YOUR HANDS TO BE FREE. Petzl has a new lamp that takes two bulbs. One can be turned down for more battery hours. They also have a lamp with a battery pack that hangs over the neck, keeping the pack warm in high altitudes. Black and Decker makes a mini-snake light that takes AA. Another company makes a good snake light with each end a light and takes AA; cant remember the manufacturer. I have purchased from Real Goods solar chargers that will recharge AA batteries in sunlight.

I SCUBA dive, and use lights from that sport. They are very durable. Many have red lenses for night diving, and when used for Y2K they wont kill night vision. Many also take clusters of 8 or more AA batteries for power instead of D cells. Ikelite has a 6 cluster AA light that is incredibly bright, small, and straps to equipment. This costs about $35 and the amount of light it puts out has to be seen to be believed. I use two of these lights as my primary for wreck and night diving. Pelican also makes some great AAA lights- Home Depot carries them.

I recently bought a Krill Lamp. They take the place of chemical lights. These work great, but for reading and maximum light get the green 180 degree Krill Extreme lamp. 50-80 hours and 2 AAs.

For the cold buy lithium batteries. They function better at lower temperatures than other batteries.

-- Tom (retro50@agapeis.net), July 07, 1999.

I bought a BayGen flashlight. I had the impression that I was going to wind it for something less than one minute and get about 30 minutes of light out of it. The actual performance was more like three minutes. I would have turned it back in but decided that it would still do well in a fallout shelter application, in which we wouldn't have access to sunlight for recharging over a period of two weeks or more.

-- Dancr (minddancr@aol.com), July 08, 1999.

Dancr,

I've wondered about the 'output per wind cycle' too. From what I've read at different sites, A 30 second wind of approx. 60 turns will gen. 3-4 minutes of light for the flashlight-- but for the radio, the same # of turns generates about 30 minutes of listening to the radio. Supposedly there is a way to store the winds into the battery-- or charge the battery through winding. But since I haven't seen the product first hand, I'm not really sure...

-- winter wondering (don'temailme@posthere.com), July 08, 1999.

"White LED Flashlight" - any experiences? Overall product impression? Do they really last as long as they say (batterwise and no bulbs needing replacement-wise?

 

Well, since I headed up a massive 1,800-plus bulk-buy of white LEDs direct from the manufacturer with a bunch of fellow TB2K regulars, and have been building crap like crazy with my 70 LEDs, I might have useful info on that subject from a practical real-world-use point of view. I also have a website up that is devoted to white LEDs, their uses, and information. I'll refer to pages from it on occasion in my post. (If anyone reading this has any white-LED info that would be good to post, please let me know. I'd be happy to credit you accordingly.)

 

First, the positives...

White- LED flashlights have much longer usable life on a set of batteries than an equivalent incandescent bulb does. A LOT longer. Take good care of the LED-based flashlight and it'll serve you for a very long time, especially in the case of the aluminum-bodied ones that have such a durable casing. Just don't drown the light (read: Drop it in water) or trash it, and take care to check the batteries for leakage, etc.

Dramatically increased toughness and impact resistance. (Ever had a flashlight bulb go south just from the light being dropped? I have. Trashing a bulb could be a very bad thing in a post-SHTF world, especially if that was your last bulb.) If each LED is properly mounted with a spacer to help take the shock, white LEDs can survive very severe drops.

The light tends to be more uniform in color balance, although this seems a bit odd at first since it looks to the eye to be bluish-white. Fewer dark spots as well. The light tends to taper off smoothly off-axis. Shadows are generally crisp and well-defined.

The light is visible for a LONG way off (three to five miles in my tests, in clear conditions at night) and reflective surfaces are visible for two miles or more with no source other than the LEDs. Street signs glow as if self-lit and car relfectors shine like they were lit up from within from a long way off.

White- LED lights also use a lot less current than incandescent bulbs for the same output at spot's center, stretching those batteries a lot farther. Use Lithium batteries with their ten-year shelf-life, or NiMh (NOT NiCd!!!!) rechargables with a solar charger and your light could last longer than your possession of it. (Take that as a hint to safeguard it if TSHTF. Others may see it and want it. I planned to build a few small six-LED units for barter items.)

With some creativity, you can build really small but really effective flashlights. My six-LED flashlight is about 3" long and an inch in diameter. For my next white-LED trick I planned to build a three-LED light using a single 12-volt 23A or equiv. battery that would be an inch square and half an inch thick. A postage-stamp light.

The best advantage is that they are really easy to work with if you have a rudimentary understanding of electronics. Just keep the voltage below their maximum rated limit and they'll last for a LONG time. (Nichia's model # NSPW500BS white LED has a 100,000-hour rated lifetime, which is about 11 YEARS of continuous operation.)

 

Now, the negatives...

White- LED lights need higher voltages than incandescent, although they stretch the power much longer. (My six-LED flashlight, which was converted to LED from incandescent, runs on two A544/PX28A/equiv. 6-volt alkaline batteries for about twenty hours total. The two batteries combined are almost the size of a single 'AA battery. They are widely available at radio Shack, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc.)

White- LED lights need a certain number of LEDs to be effective. I'd not use less than three LEDs for reading at close ranges, and six LEDs can produce enough light to use for moving around with comfortable levels of visibility. Single LEDs on lithium watch batteries (such as those little keychain jobs) are good for very basic applications but that's about it. So, if you get a white LED flashlight, I'd strongly recommend getting one with six LEDs if you can find one. (Again, my six-LED flashlight, which was converted to LED from incandescent, is bright enough to read text by from several feet away.)

White LEDs are visible for a long way off, which could be a problem if you are being pursued or need to approach a potential target or meal with stealth. They just seem to "jump out" to the eye, more so than typical incandescent flashlights.

For brighter light, you'll need to drive them with a high-efficiency driver to get the most out of your batteries. See my LED driver page for schematics for a basic timer-chip-driver that can push hundreds of LEDs at once with minimal drain. You'll need a decent level of hobbyist-type expertise with electronics to build one, but it'll be well worth it. My second LED driver prototype drives 36 white LEDs off eight 'AA' batteries. I've had the same batteries running it for a few months now. It consules less than two watts of power at 12 volts at full brightness and you can see it for MILES...

The LEDs themselves are static-sensitive. Small static charges can toast them. Proper handling precuations for anti-static semiconductors are required to prevent damage.

The biggest downside is cost: They are REALLY expensive. Nichia wants $ 1.60 EACH IN THOUSAND QUANTITIES for theirs! And that's direct from the manufacturer. If you'd like to buy plain LEDs to play with, wait for the next LED bulk-buy and get in on it; it'll save you a LOT of $ over buying them in small quantities from distributors.

 

Hope all that info helps you out with that facet of your queries! If you want more detailed info, want to build a driver, or want to know a few sources for the lights, E-mail me. I have PLENTY of info.

 

 

OddOne, who's spent too much time tinkering with white LEDs...

 

-- OddOne (mocklamer_1999@yahoo.com), July 08, 1999.

BTW, I posed the same reply to both messages in both forums, in case anyone in either had some curiosity regarding the white LED flashlights coming to market. And, as bw said, I -do- plan to do another bulk-buy, although I'm not yet ready to do it. I'll let everyone know when it happens, though.

OddOne, who has PLENTY of low-power light around for soem reason...

-- OddOne (mocklamer_1999@yahoo.com), July 08, 1999.

Thanks Odd One for posting the info about LED lights. I did visit your website yesterday-- but I have to admit I get the willies when instructions start including ohms and schematics. I get the 'Ohm my gosh!' reaction happening. S0rry -- bad pun. But, on a more serious note-- and on a topic I plan to post on separately, I am not very handy when it comes to building things. Worse, I am just a new 'GI'-- in fact I probably don't even GI to the full extent. I just know that I'm feeling very pressed for time with a great deal of concerns. Not only is there limited time, but limited finances. And because of each of those things, I need to 'GI right the first time.' Really, this should be a separate post from my original queries (split between two forums). And I'll try to put something together as a new post at the prep forum.

an overwhelmed winter wondering (who would e-mail some people directly, but whose e-mail program is a piece of junk and inaccessible right now.)

-- winter wondering (don'temailme@posthere.com), July 08, 1999.