Long time GIs, talk to me about security

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) Preparation Forum : One Thread

Okay, here's the deal. We moved to the country ten years ago. I have been preparing since the summer of '97. Seriously putting in money and effort since the spring of '98. We have backup power in solar and diesel generators, Trace inverter and industrial 2 volts. I can run everything except my central AC. We have our chicken coop in and stocked. The garden was enlarged this season a great deal. We have some cattle and a couple of horses. I have a well and we have stored large amounts of basic foodstuffs, beans, wheat, coffee etc. We have weapons and ammunition and know how to use them. I have done all this myself except digging the well.

None of the above paragraph was meant in a boastful manner, merely to let you know how committed I am and set the stage for sharing where I am now.

We all know how much effort even small preparations take. I found out early that as I faced my lack of preparedness it was all too easy to freeze emotionally and mentally due to the sheer volume of what had to be done. It took me about eight months to get over that, a luxury most don't have in July of '99. I overcame it by focusing ON ONE THING AT A TIME. When that was done ( or set in motion), I went to the next. It has been my experience that one is constantly attempting to anticipate potential problems and prepare for their possibility and as preps evolve, new challenges come to the fore that you simply hadn't the time to handle earlier.

If TSHTF big time, security is of course vital. In worst case, your homestead must be defended with deadly force. I am asking you wonderful people for ideas here, especially rural folks. What are you guys doing to sleep better at night?

Low profile isn't really that low in most rural counties. More people than you would like to think know a lot about what you are doing. In the desperate scenarios, how do you protect a house that is mostly windows? How do you set a perimeter? How do you guard and light it properly? Do you WANT to do this? etc.

It seems to me that making the place diffucult to attack will deter all but the most determined and best trained. I doubt my ability to stop a well led, well armed para military unit anyway. As far as raising a flag that "hey them folks has sumpin'" the solar panels, diesel and propane and large garden already do that.

I have put off this topic in my preps intentionally until this summer...

I appreciate your thoughts, especially the people that have been thinking about this very problem a long time. I'll share my thoughts in a later post. They haven't progressed all that far I'm afraid.

God Bless you all.


-- Will Huett (willhuett@usa.net), July 07, 1999



I guess low profile is out. *grin* Ok. Here is something to consider. You'll be the best judge of the chances of this working.

Buy alot of cheap food. Grain from that Hansen fellow at Pleasent Hills Garin (name?) has gotten good reviews. I have seen his stuff. It looks real clean and uniform. (But I eat wonder bread and wouldn't know good grain from cat litter). Anyway, buy enough grain to feed say, 50 people for six months. Should cost about $4000 and another $600 for buckets and mylar bags. This is alot of cash. It could buy you three good semi-auto rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo. But they won't do the job as well as the grain. Get books on doing without electricity, getting water from alternate sources, building low tech shelters, low tech heating systems, etc. Get enough medical suplies for a small clinic. (I have no idea what or where, ask your doctor and your fellow forum posters) If the lights go out, contact your neighbors and let them know that you'll do what you can to assist them with what you have if they will help you maintain your property against intruders and other hardships. By support I mean you provide knowledge, some food, some clean water, a place for the doctor to work, a fridge for peoples medications, etc. You get the idea. The smaller your community, the better this can work. It may not be suitble for your situation, but it's something to think about. Make yourself a resource to the community and they will protect you for their own good. If you do this, be prepared to take a leadership role. This way the mayor is less likely to commondeer your preps. There is a chance that this could back fire. You must use your own judgement.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), July 07, 1999.

Perhaps your neighbors will get a sizable chunk of your preps. They might gang up and politely request, maybe you'll do a community feed on your own. Food in a neighborhood gives that community a soft landing, time to get used to the situation. It seems unfair, but if a big chunk of your change accomplishes a soft landing, and you end up cooperating with neighbors to protect each other, that's not really a bad deal.

At the end, you want a group of cooperating people. You want to have personal assets (knowledge?) that can't be taken from you, that makes you a valued member even when food runs low. You want to have enough resources (starting with food) within your group such that the neighbors want to protect the whole from outsiders, as opposed to just coming over and bumping you on the head.

The bunker mentality is fatal, seems to me. Nobody can hold any fixed position against desperate people. Tribes survive not because they are stronger than anyone else, but because they are just strong enough to make it not worth attacking.

Focus on gardening, getting tools, seed. People who come looking for food are coming because they're scared. Give them a plan for the future, some means to get there. People don't actually WANT to shoot each other over a can of peaches.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), July 07, 1999.

Don't light your property at all, have dogs and rely on them to let you know when someone is coming. Having lights when others don't is a bad idea.

Think about good people you know who are either DGI or not situated as well as you. Be sure they know where you live and that they're invited. Have stores enough for them and more.

Location is the key. If half the population suddenly turned into refugees, we likely wouldn't see more than a dozen or so people. That thought helps with sleeping at night.

Having neighbors across the road (the only ones within sight of us) that are good friends and well prepared (even though they aren't informed or interested in Y2K) helps too. Make friends now.

-- Gus (y2kk@usa.net), July 07, 1999.


Each location is a project unto itself. If you are near a high-crime city, you'll want to plan for conflicts. If you are outside a small town and not within 100 miles of a big (25,000 pp.)city, you MAY be able to do the teamwork thing. I am in the boonies. I have a plan for the teamwork thing, and WE have a plan for the takers.

#1- 2 or 3 watchdogs with food stored for them. #2- a guard position that is concealed. #3- some pre-designated shooting positions #4- enough folks to keep a guard dusk-to-dawn #5- a fall back plan with pre-positioned food and ammo #6- a weapon on all persons at all times (adults)

This obviously implies some planning and discussion. Then some practice. If you aren't a leader, get one.

Bertin Opus

-- Bertin Opus (third@hotmail.com), July 07, 1999.

We have been SLOWLY gathering firearms and ammo as well as food and other supplies. One of the things I have also been working to implement is a network (yes a network) of infrared detectors. I am an amature (at best) electritian but came accross a "cloud detector" in Amarican Scientific (may I think)and have been working to make several modified IR detectors hooked up to LEDs so I can produce a detiecting perimeter to help with early detection of "visitors"

-- Val (valkov@go.com), July 07, 1999.


Many good suggestions have been posted. Extra food-stuff will defuse some situations. The threat of force will defuse others. You get the picture.

To develop a security plan, you need to have some idea of what you want to do. For example, do you want to keep everyone away and protect your environment as completely as possible or do you want avoid confrontation and yet keep most of your stuff?

Go to your local army-navy surplus and pick up a copy of the army FM the Squad and Platoon in the Defense. You also may want to get the Infantry Company in the Defense as well. These manuals are end to end guides on how to secure an area or perimeter. They contain information on how to make early warning devices from simple items. Read them and apply what you need.

You may also find these items on line from The Cavalry Store or from sources such as Cheaper than Dirt.

Good luck to you.

-- Tom (nomail@nomail.com), July 08, 1999.

Paladin Press and Loompanics have many military manuals cheap, as does Ken Hale (a bookselling company, too, not a person), presuming the latter is still in business. The 1st two are referenced in J.C. Cunningham's Y2K preparation book.


-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), July 08, 1999.

Thanks folks. Especially the manuals on perimeters and the infared. Val, keep us posted ok?

Of course we have extra food, etc. but in contemplating bad scenarios a genuine defense may be necessary. I am not concerned about neighbors so much as outsiders.

Anyone out there with experience? Anybody already ready?

Thanks again!


-- Will Huett (willhuett@usa.net), July 09, 1999.

Loompanics has the answers

-- number six (Iam_not_a_number@hotmail.com), July 09, 1999.


Mine is not an original idea, but may be very applicable and workable in your situation. I read somewhere else (not sure where or I'd give them credit for it) that perhaps you could agree to feed/house some really needy capable folks to help you protect your place. They would be grateful enough to show loyalty to you and they would have a stake in preventing others from over-running you (and them). It would entail more food storage and possibly more guns/ammo, etc., but feeding and helping someone to care for their family would be much cheaper than trying to feed and appease half the country-side. I don't know how many in your household are capable of mounting a defense, but a few extra families could go a long way towards bolstering your firepower and apparent invulnerability. Of course, a few handouts would probably still be made. All of this is under the assumption that you would have a place for all these extra hands to at least make a camp and be out of the weather (barns, sheds, maybe a big tent?).

But you will still need to have a good general knowledge of tactics.


-- Gerald R. Cox (grcox@internetwork.net), August 21, 1999.

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