OK folks. I know that there have to be quite a few of us out there who, for whatever reason, are unable to leave the cities. Sure we recognize the value of the advice to leave the cities, but there are solid reasons why we can't.

So, let's get down to the bottom line. How are we going to survive? What are the issues that are unique to the city situation? How are we going to deal with them? Any tips for city preps?

I'm staying in DC because my partner is a minister with a church here and we can't leave the congregation. We've been stocking up for over a year. We've been trying and trying to raise the consciousness levels of folks here. Anyone else out there?

-- Libby Alexander (libbyalex@aol.com), July 06, 1999

Answers

Libby,

Perhaps you could get the ball rolling by sharing your experiences. Dig up the threads from the "Classic Forum" archives in which you posted about urban prepping.

Moderators: is this the type of thread you envisioned for this forum? Or should it be moved to the "Classic Forum"?

Thanks,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), July 06, 1999.

In the situation you describe it would be wise to be able to make your dwelling appear to be looted already. Nobody kicks a dead dog. Oh, and make it appear to be unhealthy to be in the area. Something like the old "quarintine sign" trick. You get the idea.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), July 06, 1999.

I consider this thread a key aspect of prepping. Go ahead.

The other forum will continue to specialize in Y2K news, analysis of remediation, etc. Actually, the classic forum should be Diane and Linkmeister-style work to the hilt (carried on by all of us, of course), as it were, without the trolling, and coupled to various "philosophical points of view" related to that kind of work.

There is PLENTY of need and room for it, especially over the next six months, IMO.

In an ideal world, the two forums might be kinda 50-50.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), July 06, 1999.

We couldn't sell our house so we have to stay in the city too. We'll make the best of it--it could be lots worse.

My first thought is "fence." I have a privacy fence on one side, a chain-link fence threaded with thick ivy on the back (plus trees and shrubs), and on the other side, shrubs. Unfortunately, the shrubs aren't yet high enough to afford privacy or barrier, but I intend to do something about that in the fall.

The second thing that comes to mind is sun-film. The dark bronze kind not only helps cut down on heat, it makes it difficult to see in from the outside (providing no light is switched on inside). Sun film also hides your pets from view when they look out of the window--if things ever get REALLY bad, people will see you have plump kitties and know you have human food too. Not to mention the fixin's for kitty stew!

Third is don't show lights at night. If you have light, you have food and other supplies. Choose one room, have a plywood panel closely cut to fit the window. Line edge of window frame with foam weatherstripping so even a chink of light doesn't show. Good for keeping warm in winter too.

Fourth is water and sewer, and there's been lots of discussion about those two things. I think I just might have that special thingie installed in the sewer--our water department is in dreadful shape, even without Y2K.

I'm sure this thread will grow much longer, so I'll stop here.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 06, 1999.

Libby-We, too, are in the 'city' to stay. To add to the mix, neither my husband or I are willing to own a gun. What's that saying? "God protects the innocent and children?"

We cannot move for a variety of reasons, mainly having to do with responsibilities concerning elderly relatives and not having resources to do so.

If things go haywire, we will stay in the house, douse lights after dark and make it difficult/painful to enter the house in any way other than the front door. Traffic in and out of the house will be extremely limited and conducted as quickly and unobtrusively as possible.

Cooking odors is a subject that I am still thinking on. I certainly don't want to advertise that Linda's 'cafe' is open. But on the other hand, I feel a responsibility to others (even if they did choose to not prepare) and will seek a way to help if at all possible.

So do I fit in the 'innocent' or the 'children' category? Who knows, and at this point, I don't really care. Gotta deal with what I've got.

Linda

PS Libby, I figure that you will not be comforted by the answers you will receive to this question. There is, however, a great Comforter who, while He may not answer every question to our liking, is there to help in those areas where we fall short.

-- newbiebutnodummy (Linda@home.com), July 06, 1999.

I too have to stay in the city, but it's a small city compared to DC! I'm alone, and when I posted a few weeks ago asking for advice, I really think the best advice I got was from a poster who said "Three words: Very Large Dog."

Before the dog, in my book and my practise, comes "very good gun" Nobody is going to be anti-guns any more next January - nobody alive, that is.

And after the dog (which advice I didn't follow because I'm scared of big dogs myself & we're a kitty-house) is my own protection program called Fortress. Granted, if someone intends to get into your house they will no matter what and you can also be burned out - but "fortressing" can postpone or maybe avoid the first. New storm doors with iron grills. Storm windows on the largest with iron grills. Wood shutters inside ready to nail shut. Replace old wood doors, top glassed, with new steel doors, no glass. Bucu's of money. I'm worth it.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), July 06, 1999.

Plywood can be cut to fit window frame outside or inside, then predrill screw holes through into frame. Mark each plywood sheet with which window it fits.

Bars on windows are good, but my parents found that when they lived in Washington D.C. that thieves would even try to get in the small high unbarred bathroom windows. So, be sure to bar all windows.

If you are planning on blackout curtains (also good for insulation) pick up fabric now. How will you hand them?

Lastly, consider plants as part of your fencing and window planning...most people will hesitate to try to climb over a large cactus, raspberry bush or even rosebush.

-- seraphima (seraphima@aol.com), July 06, 1999.

Most of you know I am a big fan of bugging out. But the prep forum needs many threads of various specific types for those who can't/won't (doesn't really matter and we don't need to psychologize here).

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), July 06, 1999.

(Submitted before finishing.)

In intense, short-term emergencies, lots of urban predators take the easiest possible targets and IMMEDIATELY avoid anyone who seems prepared or willing to fight back even a little bit. I'm not saying that to scare, but the opposite, encourage.

Hopefully, breakdowns where YOU live, if they happen, will be short-lived (riot-like), not the type that break the ability of civil authorities to protect citizens.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), July 06, 1999.

Our strategy in the city is to hibernate; close all the blinds and not go out for at least a couple of months.

We are prepared to shoot through a window or the window next to the door if anyone tries to breakin through a window or to break the door down. That would be a strong show of force and a message that continuing would prove dangerous. The bullet hole in the window would give future would be intruders pause. We would only shoot if threatened within the house.

During the Watts riots, it was the shopkeepers that sat in the door of their business with a shotgun that were not looted. A show of force convinced rioters to move on.

During the Watts riots,

-- Leslie (***@***.net), July 06, 1999.

Unfortunately, I think, all the "get a gun" advice is being wasted on D.C. residents. D.C. has about the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation, so unless you are willing to break the law, its just about pointless to even think about it. (Of course, if you don't worry about breaking the law -- i.e., if you are a criminal -- then not only are the guns plentiful, but the victims are almost guaranteed disarmed!)

Sorry, Libby, having myself recently re-located from the D.C. area (Fairfax, VA) to a rural farm in Northwest Arkansas, all I can tell you is that I spent a long time trying to figure out how to effectively prepare for Y2K without making such a radical change -- and concluded that it could not be done.

I wish you the very best of luck.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), July 06, 1999.

Linda (newbiebutnodummie): If you do not even own a sword, you have nothing to beat into a plowshare. That's not preparation, it's suicide.

-- A. Hambley (a.hambley@usa.net), July 06, 1999.

For non lethal protection buy some high power water guns. Put in some Tabasco sauce. Carry several different sizes. Even a small one that fits in your pocket.

-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), July 07, 1999.

What about some of the new paint ball guns? I have heard that they can pack a punch, but won't kill you. People do get bruised when hit by one of the paint balls. Just a thought.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), July 07, 1999.

I posted this thread a little while back.

If you're really stuck, I think the information could be quite useful.

BTW, I have purchased a firearm. I practice using it. I will be prepared for many contingencies.

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00109O

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), July 07, 1999.

Sounds to me as if a paint gun would just piss off people. Who needs that.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 07, 1999.

Strength comes from community; nobody can do this alone. Humans evolved as tribal creatures, and our near relatives still live that way. When it gets nasty, we all want to hold someone else's hand. Unfortunately, cities destroy community.

If you stay in the city, make your own community and start soon. Form teams with like-minded people. Stash some of your stuff in their houses and vice versa. Plan your routes to get from place to place, if you have to fall back. Inventory your assets (both physical and mental assets) and select team members because they contribute to the whole. They will select you on the same criteria.

If possible, your new community should have a boundary, as gangs hold neighborhoods. (That's why they do that - it satisfies instincts.) But if you don't have the power to maintain that boundary, do a stealth community. Heinlein did a book about space-trainees marooned for a few years in a training exercise gone bad. Point was, those who thought of themselves as prey survived better than the ones who swagger. In the city, you are the prey.

Plan for no-cook meals. Canned food, MRE, Ramen (soak cold, then eat). Figure out where to tuck food, especially a small high-energy stash for backup.

See my brochure (downloadable from Cassandra) - 6 ideas for 1999.

The key to Y2k has always been food. Buy what you can, share among your team. Be prepared to help those who have less, either DGI or no money to prep. Food is the cushion that lets us make a soft landing.

Oh, yeah. If you can, get your children out of town. Send them to stay with friends in the country, etc. Like London did in the Blitz.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), July 07, 1999.

Hi All! Thanks for all of your responses. We live in a house that is attached to a church. (My spouse is the priest there.) We've got a back gate that locks and a front gate that locks and a congregation that wants to protect its property. Most of the people who go to the church live in the neighborhood. (Though they are mostly DGIs.) We have bars on all the windows already.

Can't have a gun because of DC. more later. Vet is coming...

-- Libby Alexander (libbyalex@aol.com), July 07, 1999.

Your position _should_ generate concern among readers, each for their own personal reasons. Mine are as follows: Your bars are about zero impediment to evil. Your apparent chosen strength lies within the congregation. Given that specific position, you must prepare to defend against fire. Not gunfire. Fire. Recognize that if you are assaulted it is probably because you possess either a material item of perceived interest, or retain a philosophy which is not currently understood or acceptable to your uninvited guests. The result is, historically, predictable.

You are here, in this newsgroup, because that is part of your destiny. Those who offer a contribution towards your welfare do so unselfishley, unrewarded. Take heed from those people. Be adaptive. It is possible your position, although justifiable in your minds, can be improved through interface with other opinion. Listen to the diverse voices of experience.

OK guys and gals, lets give some support here - your turn!

-- A. Hambley (a.hambley@usa.net), July 07, 1999.

Team work, I believe, is absolutely essential. So is fire safety. So is a back up plan. Thanks, all, for your answers.

-- Libby Alexander (libbyalex@aol.com), July 08, 1999.

I've come full circle and plan on bugging out to a wilderness area in the national forest.I'm afraid the cities will be dying full of people with sewage related ilnesses like dysentarie and diareaha.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), July 08, 1999.

Hi, Libby! I too am stuck in Fairfax, VA, too near DC for comfort, and with neighborhood serious gangs of our own, so I share your concerns. I am alone, have "no way out" of the area financially, so must be prepared to defend my home and person as well as possible. I have considered all the methods of doing this and plan to do "layering," which means as many deterrents as possible, then the final fallback of self-defense if my home is broken into anyway. I live in a condo, and that makes it somewhat more difficult than a private home, due to restrictions beforehand, i.e., bars on windows, etc.

One of the items in "layering" which might help you is a tazer beam gun. This shoots a beam that deactivates the central nervous system of an attacker for 15 minutes without permanent harm. I do not know if these are legal in DC either, but they are available in Fairfax County. However, if one uses this, one must ask what one does after the 15 mins. are up: if no police are available to scoop up the intruder, then what? These are serious questions.

Is it at all possible for you and your husband to have a bugout location just for the duration?

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), July 08, 1999.

One of the items in "layering" which might help you is a tazer beam gun. This shoots a beam that deactivates the central nervous system of an attacker for 15 minutes without permanent harm

My Answer: Kill him/her you likely have at least one knife near by that's what i would do if i couldn't immedately relocation, either kill them or there kill you.

-- mmgmike@excite.com (mmgmike@excite.com), July 09, 1999.

>> However, if one uses this, one must ask what one does after the 15 mins. are up: if no police are available to scoop up the intruder, then what?

having some handcuffs or huge tywraps (like police use for handcuffs) will at least buy you some time to decide what to do with him.

-- y2kbiker (y2kbiker@worldnet.att.net), July 09, 1999.

I'v seen on the web that Wasp/Hornet spray is a good thing at close range. I used mine today in barn, it shots 25-30 feet. Might give you a chance to bug-out.

-- && (&&@&&.&), July 09, 1999.

If you live in Virginia, even Northern Virginia, even Fairfax, there is no legal reason why you cannot arm yourself with a 12 gauge shotgun. The non-lethal "hi tech" devices are great in theory, especially when applied to typical parking lot purse snatching type scenarios, but are laughable when applied to home invasion maruders.

For home defense, #4 or 00 buckshot, with a short barrel (18" legal minimum) are good. If you find one or retrofit one with a magazine extension for extra ammo capacity, and a pistol grip and no stock or folding stock, that is ideal, because now you have a lot of manuverability within the confines of your home.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), July 13, 1999.

One of the greatest mistakes that we GIs (meant, generically) have made in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area is not having organized as an information and support community that is operational during the worst-- if the worst happens. As I see it, too many people are too busy with their own preps (if they are busy prepping) and wasting a lot of time talking to local government people and other service providers that continue to lie and minimize our concerns. Of course, we don't all live next door, but that shouldn't keep us from making some basic commitments to a local communication network (CBs or whatever), providing support (food, water, etc.) where needed and if possible, and bug out caravans (if necessary). Most of us local GIs are quite pleasant, intelligent, and sufficiently concerned about Y2K, so why we can't get together on such a project remains a mystery to me.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 21, 1999.

A large sign placed outside the door which simply says, "YOU LOOT, WE SHOOT". Written on plywood with paint spray can. This is borrowed from Cory's e-mail digest.

-- tc (trashcan-man@webtv.net), September 21, 1999.

The "we loot, you shoot" idea has been discussed in other forums...I just found this forum and think it is full of VERY good advice and accounts of peoples experiences.. Just thought I would plug a bit of what has been said about this idea though. In this sick society which fails to put the blame where it should and punishes those who would protect themselves as both God and our forefathers would have us do, someone who shoots a looter/theif/potential murderer-rapist and has a sign that states the above might very well be prosecuted by our wonderful justice system for premeditated actions. Not arguing against shooting the scumbags, just advising you to think about warning them before doing so - maybe after having to do so, throwing the sign into the woodstove!, and dragging the body(s) out to the street for trash pickup!(under cover of darkness of course)

-- DP (firstctdbl@aol.com), October 07, 1999.