*!* Clinton/Y2K/Debunking/Every Morning In White House!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Thanks to Rich on csy2k for the tip-off. Read what the Clintons *really* think of Y2K!

[ For Educational Purposes Only ]

http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn:pdi://oma.eop.gov.us/199 9/1/27/13.text.1


"I thought Professor Davis did a great service to all of us who are less well-read in what happened 1000 years ago by debunking some of the popular myths. Clearly, not everyone was giving away all their possessions or cowering in churches waiting for the world to end. Maybe what was said tonight will discourage some of our fellow citizens who seem determined to buy desert land and hoard gold, bullets, and skoal in their pickup trucks. (Laughter). I don't know. You laugh, this is a major source of conversation every morning in the White House, here."


More. Ugh. Lumps it in with millenial wackery. Scoffing clueless.

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-- Ashton & Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), June 28, 1999


First, I didn't realize Paul Davis was a Professor.

Secondly, as a pickup driver who lives in the desert, I take umbrage.

Thirdly, it's a major source of conversation every morning here, too.

Easy for that pig to say - best prepared man in history.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), June 28, 1999.

Scrolling down 5th M Meeting (1-?), ivory tower comes to mind.

"this is a major source of conversation every morning in the White House, here"

What do you suppose they talk about? Funding for more pro debunkers? The silly hillbilly ignorance of the pickup truck "desert"ers?

This type of snooty snickering and willful Billfull ignorance is infuriating and WILL COST LIVES. Such arrogant disdain for looking at science, truth, facts, technology, risks, stakes, consequences.


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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 28, 1999.

Appalling, but expected. have to disassociate with a now.. for clinton bashing. dang.

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), June 28, 1999.


Especially Prof. Davis. Excuse me, I have to throw up.......

The arrogance of these and (by inference) other public officials is mind-boggling! We are the pinnacle of history, according to them, and can smugly look on the rest of the world while God blesses this righteous people (especially those at the Millenium Evening) (see Mrs. Clinton-I can spell it) and we go on forever (at least if Bill is leading us).

I hereby raise my Y2K prediction from 8 to 9.5.

And it shows what fools some of you were to vote for this group (twice!).

Infomagic --- come back, we need you.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), June 28, 1999.

What is "skoal" ?? Can't find it in the dictionary.

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), June 28, 1999.

Chewing tobacco --- snuff.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), June 28, 1999.

And probably a damned good barter item, now that I think of it. Thanks, WJC, can't say you never contributed...

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), June 28, 1999.

Well dagnammit....guess I better jump in the ol' pickup (with gunrack) and get my ropes into the dry-cleaners to have them thar Skoal stains removed. Wouldn't wanna muss up anybody's throat in a few months, right pardner? Just let my scrape this here cow pile offa my Tony Lama first. "Y2K is about to give new meaning to the term 'shit-kicker' in WDC, yessir"

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 28, 1999.

ooooooooooo, the nerve!

These ivory tower fauxsillized ossified smug self-congratulatory LIARs and Corruptions are a caricature textbook example of Pride Before The FALL.

Who will be branded and raked over the skoals? Who'skull will be strung up on a pitchfork in the village square?

SNUFF is appropriate concept. Just *who* will be SNUFFED OUT!

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 28, 1999.

PLEASE NOTE: THESE ARE COMMENTS COMING FROM AN ARKANSAS CHICKEN FARMER????????? (and probably a HEN abuser too) Would it be considered too 'rabid' of me to state that I hate this man's yellow, twisted guts? (Thought so, please ignore.)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 28, 1999.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the White House had daily y2k "spin meetings".

-- Scott Nearing (had_no@y2k_problem.com), June 28, 1999.

No, Will, it's documented that WJC has never held a private-sector job in his life. He went straight from school to various govt. positions. All kinds of "positions".

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), June 28, 1999.

I know Lisa, but he hails from the chicken capitol of the World. He also runs campaigns (very effectively) based upon his 'good ol boy' style. He has now displayed his true view of a large portion of the hardest working class individuals in the country....those who built the damn thing for scum like him to abuse and neglect and destroy. Hanging this SOB 'after' TSHTF just isn't good enough for me anymore. I hope WJC will be found, DOA!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 28, 1999.

Torture is much more satisfying and appropriate than death.

-- don't go too easy (oncriminal@perpetrators.gut), June 28, 1999.

Professor Davis seems a fine example of the mindset in "The Ivory Tower":

When we think of Natalie Zemon Davis we can imagine her with her bookbag riding her bicycle all over campus, whatever campus -- Smith and Radcliffe Colleges, Brown University, UC Berkeley, and for 18 years at Princeton...

Gad: Two of the "Seven Sisters", couple of Ivy League schools and Berzerkley. You really need to get out more, Prof. All those upper-middle-class, 1500+ on SATs, neurotic white kids aren't exactly a cross-section of American life, y'know?

Sorry, that was a bit ad hominem, but since I WAS one of those kids, I do have some right to criticize...

By the bye, anyone interested in the realities of life in England at the end of the first millennium might want to read The Year 1000 by Robert Lacey and Danny Danziger. Prof. Davis' speech reads as if she might had read some galleys of this book...

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), June 28, 1999.

Stop, italics! Stop, I say! Baaaaad italics! *blush*

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), June 28, 1999.

And just in case Billy-Blow Job and his old lady ARE reading this...I want Hellary in the mud-pit.....NOW (with one hand tied behind my back....sister) I feel a cerebral hemorhage coming on. Where's my boots? Worms

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 28, 1999.

Prof Marty states, "Tomorrow the President will be meeting with the Pope"....you know, the last time those two met, I was praying that Clinton would spontaneously combust. I've questioned God's existence ever since.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 28, 1999.

Umm... this isnt the party line... but...

This was a fun review for a change... snippets...

How did people live 1,000 years ago? Did they approach that time with fear or optimism? What is our millennial thinking today? Do we see the millennium as an end, a beginning, both, or just another day? How do we use this unique milestone to help us understand our past and prepare for the future, or in the words of the Millennium Council theme, to honor the past and imagine the future? -- Hilary Clinton

Theres a part of me that looks at this and says... oh... maybe were not devolving back 100 years to 1900... maybe its 1,000 years back.

The other part of me looks this and says... humm... thats very zen- like... and... gasp... metaphysical.

Because even as we look at how we count time, we know that our challenge is to make time count -- which is not a job for computers or clocks, but, rather, for human beings. -- Hilary Clinton


Our dream-making capacity, our capacity to imagine, can give birth to the good as well as to the bad. -- Professor Davis

A truth.

History reminds us that, no matter how static the present looks, change can take place; things can be different. History reminds us that, no matter how bleak and constrained a situation, human initiative is put into play in opposition, improvisation, and transformation. The end results are not always what was wanted, are sometimes quite unexpected, but they then inspire new effort. No matter what happens, people try to do something about it, and tell stories about it and bequeath them to the future. The past urges us toward new commitment and also offers us a source of hope. -- Professor Davis

Shift happens.

..."millennial thinking," I am going to refer to the ways people have visions of life ahead -- either in hope or despair. They foresee a new world in which either they will play a positive part; or disaster -- perhaps even the abrupt end of everything they know. -- Martin Marty

Why is it that were all attracted to the pendulum polarities... polly/doomer... sans middle ground?

...we tend to measure the value of our doings in the light of the end. Citizens differ, of course, when measuring these millennial themes. From the word go, we disagree on whether the impending calendar change is any big deal at all; whether the millennial turn comes in 2000 or 2001; whether the non-Christian world should continue measuring years from the birth of Christ; whether the millennial observance is a non-event, a pseudo-event, a commercial con game, a product of hype , or an event offering creative opportunity, which is what the White House is committing us to -- (laughter) -- whether millennial thinking is necessarily religious, or whether there could be simply secular perspectives. And whether to greet the future optimistically or pessimistically. -- Martin Marty

Betwixt and between.

Martin Marty quotes...

 Albert Camus, judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. I, therefore, conclude that the meaning of life is the most urgent of questions.

 Theologian Emil Brunner: Since humans cannot help seeking the infinite, they now seek the meaning of their lives also in an infinity of things.

 John Paul Sarte called us, "stalkers of meaning."

 Dostoyevsky: The secret of a human's being is not only to live, but to have something to live for.

...three awarenesses that shadow all human life. Before we express faith and hope and love, we are conscious of finitude, contingency and transience. That means we all know that we and all we cherish will die; that we will all be subject to accidents of history; and we will pass, eventually, without a trace. ... But this consciousness does not lead to doom and gloom, at least not for everyone. We stand between pessimism and optimism, never in simple forms. One of my teachers urged, in looking ahead, "we do not know enough about the future to be absolutely pessimistic." (Laughter.) And when I am a little too optimistic about human nature, including my own, I look at the words of Pogo on all three of my study walls. A reason to temper hopes with realism, Pogo says, "We have faults we've hardly used yet." (Laughter.) Still, there abide faith, love and hope. -- Martin Marty

Complexity within simplicity.

..."If I must someday die," he asks, "what can I do to satisfy my desire to live?" ... The natural way to begin answering that at millennial times two is to think of individual end, future, and death. -- Martin Marty

Or... perhaps... what are you willing to live for... or willing to die for?

Millennial thinking is defined by Hillel Schwartz as "the belief that the end of this world is at hand and that in its wake will appear a new world, inexhaustibly fertile, harmonious, sanctified and just." "The more exclusive the concern with the end itself," he write, "the more such belief shades off toward the catastrophic. The more exclusive the concern with the new world the nearer it approaches utopian." -- Martin Marty

Thoughts... create your reality.

Millennial thinking runs through history of our hemisphere, long, I suppose, before Columbus came, but from Columbus through the Puritans to our literary greats. And their ways and words have been creative. Abraham Lincoln asked Americans, as God's "almost" chosen people, to sacrifice even life for the holy causes of this nation as the last best hope of Earth. Such thinking inspired the humane missions of America, the recall of which keeps us patriots, and it also licensed aggressive missions that put other peoples down. ... Citizens have used millennial thinking to promote the general welfare through progressive movements and social gospels. They have also risked sounding arrogantly righteous, and too often they were. -- Martin Marty

Words and thoughts... can support anything. Or not.

...we need also remain alert to the sometimes dangerous forms of apocalyptic thinking. ... Secular apocalypticism appears in extreme doom-filled versions of the end, begin with prophecies best known about the potential computer foul-up Y2K -- you all know its other nickname is the millennial bug in 2000. Among the urgent efforts to prevent nuclear or other forms of military or terrorist mass destruction, or to prevent ecological disasters that await an uncaring globe, some reach for extremes of apocalyptic despair which diverts others from seeking those peaceful life-supporting, hope-filled alternatives for our globe. -- Martin Marty

Interesting. Some can relate.

The millennial turn won't lead them to them to literalism, but it will cause them to reflect anew on what they mean by all this, and one hopes impel them into works of justice and mercy. -- Martin Marty

It comes down to choices... and more choices.

And, finally, there's secular non-catastrophic, non- apocalyptic millennialist and futurist thinking. It concentrates on notions of stewardship of the Earth. -- Martin Marty

Taking... giving... care.

No single version of these meanings of the millennial I've said will prevail, but the energies put into the best of them can counter the cynicism that may be a greater danger than catastrophism; that can challenge the apathy that's more unnerving than prophecy. Beyond today's culture wars, polarizing, identity politics, demonization of the other and self-centered searches, there are new reasons to address the dreams and hope of deliciously diverse elements of humanity. There will be new impulses for Americans to seek some common stories, more common ground, much common sense. -- Martin Marty

Truth... quite simply... can foster common ground.

For civic purposes, whether citizens are literalists or not, religious our not, matters less than whether they make good use of these seasons of attention to the end and new beginnings. Instead of ending in pessimism or optimism, they might search for meaning with what I call realistic hope. Hope does not let itself be utterly restrained by realistic assessments. Death camp psychiatrist Victor Frankel noticed and announced that some concentration camp victims, even on the day they knew realistically to be their end, shared their last bread and fresh hope. Thus they proved, he said, that "the last of all freedoms, the one no one can take away, is the one that lets you choose your attitude in any circumstances." -- Martin Marty

Attitude... thoughts... create your reality. Or not.

Martin Marty quotes:

 Reinhold Neibuhr -- "Nothing that is worth doing can be achieved in our lifetime; therefore, we must be saved by hope. Nothing which is true, or beautiful, or good, makes complete sense in any immediate context of history; therefore, we must be saved by faith. Nothing we do, however virtuous, could be accomplished alone; therefore, we must be saved by love. No virtuous act is quite as virtuous from the standpoint of our friend or foe as it is from our own standpoint; therefore, we must be saved by the final form of love, which is forgiveness."

The toughest act. To lead with... and follow.

So, the speaker ends on a high note, and immediately the President drops the tone...

I thought Professor Davis did a great service to all of us who are less well-read in what happened 1000 years ago by debunking some of the popular myths. Clearly, not everyone was giving away all their possessions or cowering in churches waiting for the world to end. Maybe what was said tonight will discourage some of our fellow citizens who seem determined to buy desert land and hoard gold, bullets, and skoal in their pickup trucks. (Laughter). I don't know. You laugh, this is a major source of conversation every morning in the White House, here. -- Bill Clinton

The Q&A picks up the conversation again, though.

All in all... long... but worth the read. Including a suggestion from the President...

I think something that would be helpful for all of you is if, when you go home tonight, before you go to bed, if you would take out a piece of paper and a pencil or a pen, and write down the three things that you're most worried about, with the dawn of a new millennium, and the three things that you're most hopeful about. And then ask yourself what, if anything, can you do about either one? -- Bill Clinton

Good exercise.

But I hope all of you will remember the question I asked you. And if you feel so inclined later, feel free to write to me about the things that you're most worried about and the most hopeful about, and what you think I ought to spend my time between now and the millennium doing for you and the rest of the world. -- Bill Clinton

And he wanted to hear from us. Humm.


-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 28, 1999.

Hillary Clinton asks: "How did people live 1000 years ago?"

For starters, they burned people like her husband and herself at the stake!


-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), June 28, 1999.

I'll bring the marshmallows...

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 29, 1999.

is that paul davis the same one that posts on this BB

-- furtive (lurk@bush.con), June 29, 1999.

Nancy Davis, not Paul. A prof who, like Mr. Clinton, apparently has never held a private sector job.

And no, not Nancy Davis Reagan. Somehow I doubt that she'd be invited to one of these little gatherings...

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), June 29, 1999.

Clinton's new proposal on Drudge to monitor us "lone brooders."

-- h (h@h.h), July 27, 1999.

More clues to how SERIOUSLY Clinton views Y2K.
One thing this Forum got right: it's all about his being in office LOL!

9/12/99 -- 12:38 PM

Asian-Pacific leaders confront Y2K issue

AUCKLAND, New Zealand (AP) - Asian and Pacific heads of state began their first full session of meetings Sunday by tackling a profound philosophical question: when to celebrate the new millennium.

White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, briefing reporters afterward, said a lively discussion ensued over whether the celebration should come on Jan. 1, 2000 - or a year later.

Calendar purists contend that the 21st century does not begin until Jan. 1, 2001. But politicians are seldom known for embracing purism.

New Zealand Prime Minister Jenny Shipley, the host for this year's Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, noted her island nation would be celebrating the millennium first, no matter when it began, due to its relative proximity to the international date line.

She offered ``to report'' to the others on when the millennium arrived.

``After some discussion, I think the leaders came to the conclusion that since their public, to which they all like to be attuned, will be celebrating in 2000, they will start celebrating in 2000,'' Lockhart said.

``And that was the conclusion of that philosophical debate,'' he said.

Did President Clinton take a position?

``I think the president was in a category shared by some others that thought 2000 was right because they'd still be in office,'' Lockhart said.

After some laughter, Lockhart amended his remarks: ``Although the president will be in office in 2001. I do understand that.''

Clinton's term runs through Jan. 20, 2001.
Dum dumb, duh dum dumb

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 12, 1999.

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