Water should be a top concern for Y2K preparation. In previous threads, we've discussed filtration, steam distillation, and basic storage ideas. We touched briefly on above-ground swimming pools for water storage, but I think it is a topic that merits more in-depth discussion, because it may be a more viable option for some people than other storage systems.

My questions center on the benefits and problems associated with using a private, home above-ground swimming pool for storage of a large quantity of water.

1. If the pool water is filtered through a good water filter (such as the Berkefeld or Katadyn), could it be used as drinking water, or just for garden watering?

2. What's the potential for problems in terms of the pool liner vinyl leeching?

3. Are there other potential problems that should be factored in?

4. What about using it for BOTH water storage and recreation; does the inserting of humans into the drink make for special problems (ie: think of the yellow kiddie pool syndrome...you know, urination)?

Still thinking about water, 6 months to go...

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 27, 1999

Answers

Oh, and #5. If you don't regard a pool as a viable larger water storage system, then WHAT alternatives do you think are superior?

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 27, 1999.

Sara,

I, too, am planning to use my 18'X36' in-ground swimming pool with a vinyl liner as an emergency source of water. We use the pool currently for swimming. I plan to have the water tested this fall to see if it is "fit to drink". When filled originally, we had to add quite a bit of "baking soda" to bring the ph into the correct range. And we have had to add a stabilizer (I don't know what that chemical is). Anyway, come this fall, we'll test the water and if necessary drain it and refill it with city water, then cover it for the winter as we usually do.

If city water fails, I plan to shut off our water at the meter and pump the pool water into the house via two recreation vehicle water pumps (12VDC demand) through a series of filters including a 1 micron sediment filter and a carbon filter (to remove any excess chlorine).

I am prepared to resupply the pool water with rain water from the house roof routed from the downspouts to the pool through 4" PVC pipe if the water supply disruptions warrant it.

Gerald

-- Gerald R. Cox (grcox@internetwork.net), June 27, 1999.

I have these questions too, Sara. Also,

5. Mosquito prevention ideas? (year round problem here)

-- Mommacares (harringtondesignX@earthlink.net), June 27, 1999.

Right, mosquitos, #6, OK?

Gerald, your solution from a thread a long time ago was part of my inspiration for further exploration on this. I should expand this to include in-ground AND above-ground residential pools, though there may be unique concerns with each type. AND, #7-- if anyone has worked out an elegant solution for getting the water out of the pool for the various uses, that is NOT reliant on traditional power sources, then please do tell.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 27, 1999.

Re mosquitos. Do a search for cisterns. One solution is mosquito larva eating fish. I'm not crazy about fish swimming in my drinking water, but I guess that already happens at most reservours anyway. Might find some ideas searching for "permaculture" and "water" also.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), June 27, 1999.

Mommacares,

I found a company called "Whatever Works" that manufactures a product called "Bonide"--(I quote from their website):

"READY-TO-USE MOSQUITO PREVENTIVE LETS YOU ENJOY ALL OF YOUR OUTDOOR PLEASURES. Mosquito Beater concentrated dry granules offer a long-lasting, clean, safe, and dustless alternative to expensive foggers and chemical sprays. The perfect treatment for large outdoor areas, it will keep mosquitoes and black-flies away from your barbecue, pool and patio without harming the environment. One pound container treats up to 50 x 100 ft. area. EPA registered. Mosquito Beater, #1323 $19.99

You can "Call in Your Order: 1-800-49WORKS (800-499-6757) Extension 12, Internet Sales,Key Code , Toll Free 24 Hours each day, 7 Days a week to place your order. Major Credit Cards and Checks Accepted" I may try this stuff.

I went to another website called Natural Pest Control that said: JUST SAY NO TO BUGS. My thoughts, exactly, when it comes to mosquitos near the house.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 27, 1999.

ANYONE that thinks they're going to DRINK their swimming pool water (or rainwater, for that matter) is in for a SERIOUS health problem. Swimming pool water has a multiplicity of chemicals in it that make it borderline poisonous to drink.

Rain water is laced with insecticides, heavy metals, and other carcinogens (Dioxins) that invalidate it as a source of drinking water.

The ONLY way to get water you're SURE is ABSOLUTELY safe is to use a reverse-osmosis filter. PERIOD.

The water from pools & rain is safe for bathing and cleaning, and THAT'S IT.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 27, 1999.

Dennis,

As to the safety of using the pool water for drinking, I am asking if it is potable AFTER filtering, such as a reverse-osmnosis filter would provide. The pool is just the container for a large volume of water.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 27, 1999.

A Berkefeld or Katadyn is NOT a reverse-osmosis filter. They use activated charcoal as their final element. This is not a safe method of filtering poisonous chemicals.

'Kay?

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 27, 1999.

Last year (September, I think), Arcy mentioned a process called "flocculation" that might work here. Arcy, are you still here? Does anyone know if flocculation would work?

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 27, 1999.

Re rainwater. Raingutter catchment systems are supposed to be set up to dump or waste the first amount of rain, which would take care of a lot of that problem. Filtration (and pasteurization or some sort of sterilization) should help with the rest. And we are supposing that the normal city water is not functioning, so you have to do something.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), June 27, 1999.

I am going to use my pool for water to drink.I am swimming in it as of now,yet only have ever used clorine in it.I expect to dain it once it cools down and refil and cover if need be I will add bleach not clorine after that point .I have a general ecology purifier filter,I fiqure if it can remove radiation and bacteria as it says ,I should be fine.Boiling 10 mins can work too.

-- tazz (tazzz75@hotmail.com), June 27, 1999.

Personally I am not about to drink from a large quantity of water that has had people swimmming around in unless it's a lake or ocean. I just don't like the idea of being that close to anybody. You share alot of things that you don't see through the water. Sort of the gifts that keep on giving.

-- (Keep the P @ out of the . Pool), June 27, 1999.

FYI, dumping or wasting the "first" of the rainwater will not do. The poisons are in ALL the rain water ("acid rain" anyone?). Your best bet is: 1) drill a well, and 2) Have lots of water barrels, and fill them from city water BEFORE rollover.

Rainwater these days is like drinking diluted POISON. Have at it if you choose, and I wish you well...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 27, 1999.

Response to Water Storage: Swimming Pools

#1 Mosquitos will not be a problem in January in most American locations. #2 ALGAE can be nearly eliminated by keeping the pool covered with a light tight cover. (Which makes draining the pool and starting with fresh clean untreated water important)THEREAFTER NO SWIMMERS! #3 Refilling your pool (which now has become a cistern) is simply a matter of harvesting the rainwater via the roof or other arrangement. My response to the fearful brother who thinks rainwater unfit to drink is that he needs to pull off the blinders he was fitted with and both question and investigate the "facts" he was indoctrinated with. If he looks closely into the new world order he will find that drinking the rainwater off your roof is the planned and projected future method of supplying water to BOTH city and rural inhabitants under the "renewable resources- sustainable development charters'. Some states have already begun giving tax credits to residents installing rainwater harvesting systems under that plan. #4 Drink the cleanest water you can create or find and then don't worry about whether something that MIGHT possibly make you sick in the future might have been in it, because doing without water WILL make you dead now. Incidently much of the world and a significant number of americans who live where the water table is too deep for wells obtain all their water from rainwater/cistern setups.

-- Ann Fisher (zyax55b@prodigy.com), June 27, 1999.

Thanks Sara, I'll look into that mosquito stuff tomorrow.

-- Mommacares (harringtondesignX@earthlink.net), June 27, 1999.

Wal-Mart carries a 12 by 3 foot fiberglass pool that holds 3,000 gallons of water. About $120. Set this baby up on a piece of carpet (to protect the liner) in your basement and use the water from it for washing, cleaning clothes etc. Keep it clear by using bleach and a test kit.

This will allow you to use your drinking water for drinking only.

-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), June 27, 1999.

SARA; Because your in HI, I would find a date when to finish swimming and drain that pool for your water supply needs. Be sure to clean the vinal siding with a clorine solution or sodium-bromide mixture. Then refill the pool... If the pool is not covered, I'd make a cover out of PVC pipe ,like a dome used for greenhouses. PVC pipe is strong in the 3/4 inch size. There are pvc fittings that are used for repairing holes in pvc,they are called "saddles". These pieces can be used when attached to the pvc pipe to rest on the sidewalls of the pool. Like a clip. Then the pvc pipe can be domed up to the top with a 3/4 4way connector, You then attach three more pvc pipes to the 4way and you now have a cover foryour pool. I would also place a section of window screen at the top so rain water can come in or leave it out and use the gutter system to refill the pool. If you have some questions email me it's real. Furie...

-- Furie (furieart@dnet.net), June 28, 1999.

Diversify, folks. The word from fire & earthquake country is: if your area needs the water in an emergency - your pond & pool become a resource for fire depts. Remember to make a couple of fallback plans.

-- flora (***@__._), June 28, 1999.

Sara, flocculation is useful, but not here. It's for clearing muddy water. When everything else has settled out, you still have suspended clay which won't ordinarily settle, but flocculation does it.

Technical bit: water molecules are asymetric, and they average a bit more negative charge on one side, and a bit more positive on the other. Clay particles carry a nett negative charge on their surface. So the positive ends of the water molecules grab the clay, and keep it suspended. What we need to do is give the clay particles something they'd rather hang onto than water. Higher metal ions (salts) do the job nicely. Alum works extremely well.

Practically speaking, though, one of the best answers is to stir about a shovel-full of cement powder into a five-hundred gallon tank of muddy water. Do it a bit at a time, stirring thoroughly and watching results - use too much and the water will be very hard (ha ha). All the clay gathers together into a softish sediment - drain it off and the rest of the water is fairly clear. This gives you (relatively) clear wash-water, but by no means is it drinking water.

Had to do this in severe water shortages due to drought on the farm where I was raised. The muddy water came from farm dams, and there was no way we'd drink that - we knew what we'd had to pull out of those dams, and we knew what the water had had to run through to get into them. However, it would do for washing.

And people worry about rain-water. Hah!

Best wishes, Don Armstrong

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), June 28, 1999.

On June 27th, Sara Nealy asks: 3. Are there other potential problems that should be factored in?

Theft

-- Dancr (minddancr@aol.com), June 28, 1999.

Would using a solar distiller make pool water drink-able?

-- Just wonderin' (h20@fla.com), June 28, 1999.

Think about different ways to support water.

(1) dig a big hole in the ground, line with a tarp, fill with water. A cubic yard is 200 gallons - you can store a thousand real cheap.

(2) don't drink the pool water itself, but use the pool as a meta-container. Put a garbage bag into the pool, fill the bag with fresh water, tie up the neck and then secure the neck to the ladder or to the rim, so it's out of the water. Bags will hold maybe 30-40 gallons each, do a dozen bags.

(3) do the same garbage-bag trick with large boxes, put them in your basement in case they leak.

(4) do the same thing in a closet. Close the bottom edge of the door with a plank, making a wall 6 inches high, put several bags in the bottom. Line the whole bottom with a waterproof tarp before you start.

(5) do the same in your bathtub. 4 garbage bags each filled with water.

When doing 4 or 5, fill each bag a little in rotation, then each a little more, so each bag is being supported by its neighbor.

Water is easy. Buy food first - that's expensive and laborious, and limited by the supply chain.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), June 28, 1999.

On point (2) - what I mean is that the NECK is out of the water, and the pool supports the weight of the bag.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), June 28, 1999.

Theft of water? or of the pool? Hey, if someone's THAT thirsty, they can have a drink! That's part of the idea of having an ample storage supply: having enough to share.

REF: putting water in plastic garbage bags... bw: I have a question (#2) about plastics leeching into water. Does anyone know how this factor would play into the picture with either a vinyl-lined pool OR garbage bags as water containers?

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 28, 1999.

On leaching questions, I'm beyond my (gimme a two-beat) depth.

I understand the pesticide-impregnated garbage bags were a myth, but don't know about other toxics. You can also get some humongous food-grade bags. Any kind of food-grade trashcan liner would do, if the pool water is carrying the weight for you.

We got a couple "water crates" from watertanks.com for immediate needs. We also got a Berkefeld, and our condo complex has about 5400 gallons in the fountains (no chemicals, got plants growing in them) so we can filter that and supply a bunch of neighbors.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), June 28, 1999.

DO NOT USE *GARBAGE* BAGS. Many of these bags are impregnated with insecticide by the mfr, and will IMMEDIATELY leach into the water.

Use only FOOD-GRADE plastic bags, which will be so-indicated on the box. Your life is in your own hands. Don't allow ignorance to poison you or your loved ones.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 28, 1999.

Thanks, bw and Dennis. I'll stick with food-grade plastics.

Gerald's idea of routing the rainwater from the gutter spouts is an "elegant solution" to getting water IN the pool. I'm still wondering about equally good ways to get it out without electric pumps. Gravity is one idea, but that only works if you raise the pool or situate it on higher ground. We're thinking of this for a gravity-fed water sprinkler system for our expanding garden.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 28, 1999.

Ok, I *thought* it was a myth. I remain unconvinced that garbage bags are ok or not, and when in doubt I'll err on the side of safe. So use food grade.

For watering a garden uphill, I'd look into renting a ditching/digging machine for a day and put in a plastic-lined hole uphill from the garden. Run plastic tarp or strategically placed ditching uphill from that hole, to catch rainwater. If not full by December, fill it from your normal source - city water, well, whatever. Then take it out by siphoning.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), June 28, 1999.

Hi,all,

I have a suggestion: Why doesn't at least one person who plans to use swimming pool/rainwater, spring for a complete test of their swimming pool and/or rainwater? Then share the info. Perhaps others who are planning to ustilize these sources would be willing to pitch in a few bucks to help with the cost of testing.

My (unproven) opinion is that either of these sources is likely to be a fairly good source of water, considering where most of our "potable" water comes from at present. Have you ever investigated where your public water source comes from? You might not want to know. For instance, believe it or not, the City of New Orleans uses the Mississippi River for its source of drinking water. Of course it treats this water, but still...

Most cities get their water from surface water, and most ciities dump their (treated, somewhat) sewage into the drinking water supply of the next city downstream. Sad but true. So I can't imagine that your city's rainwater is a dirtier source than the city supplies you with. Except for Dennis's rainwater, of course. Dennis, what in the world is happening to your air where you live?

Incidentally, before your drinking water was in your well, or in some other city's sewer, or in your city's water supply,wasn't it falling out of the sky as rain o snow? So wouldn't it be wiser to drink the rain than the rain which has gone through who know's how many mammals' intestines before it enters your city's water filtration plant?

I hope someone will do the testing on this. I can't say with total confidence that you should drink your poolwater or rainwater. If I were going to drink poolwater, I'd definitely have it tested, or at least find out what kinds of chemicals were in it and what their effects could be. I would not hesitate to use rainwater for my source, but I have a very pristine roofing material, and live in an area with almost no air pollution.

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), June 28, 1999.

jumpoffjoe,

Reference the chemical test of the water you suggested, what would you test for, and would you just get a standard house water test kit? Or what?

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), June 28, 1999.