I asked my boss if he was preparing for y2k, & he made that standard joke about showing up at my house when TSHTF...

...and I told him: What if I've done a lousey job in preparing? After all, I've never done it before. I have no survival experience. It's quite possible that I'll forget or neglect something important, or mis-calculate, or just mess up generally.

Or, some other un-prepared persons might beat him to my door. Maybe a whole army of vultures will already be picking at my corpse when you arrive. (nice thought)

Why trust your survival to my preparations when you can make your own? Why put your life in my hands? I barely trust myself to do this correctly, why on earth should you?

Well. Maybe he'll start preparing now.

-- better (not@risk.it), June 18, 1999

Answers

I hear that answer a lot, but I think it is more of an attempt at humor to end the conversation than a real statement of intention. The people who say that also have the mental picture of y2k wackos with guns to defend themselves.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), June 18, 1999.

I no longer discuss the situation with anyone who is not already preparing. (Wouldn't want to disturb my "doomer meme", after all ).

The last time someone said this to me I gave them a deadly serious look and said, "Not without 6 months of your own supplies". THAT got a shocked look.

No offence meant here, folks, but there was an old "outlaw biker" saying that fits: "A**, gas, or grass. No one rides for free".

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), June 18, 1999.

The DGI may think he is being humorous, but it is really a very hostile statement and deserves and equally hostile reply to wake them up, along the lines of..."Since your family means so little to you, why in the world do you think I would ever consider jeopardizing the welfare of my family to bail you out?"

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), June 18, 1999.

I agree with Jon... I don't talk about Y2K with anyone anymore. I used to try--and then watch the look of disbelief and contempt come to the face of the person I was trying to convince. I know it sounds heartless, but no way am I sharing my stash with anyone except family and close neighbors. All they'll get from me is the same look I got.

-- Sandmann (Sandmann@alasbab.com), June 18, 1999.

"Since your family means so little to you, why in the world do you think I would ever consider jeopardizing the welfare of my family to --- "

Bang. Bang. Bang. End of conversation.

-- yadda (yadda@bang.bang), June 18, 1999.

If "I'll come over to your house" is ever uttered to me, I say, "Kewl..we could always use workers to help us out...gotta earn your keep, y'know." Add to the list of zingers:

• Since I like you so much, I'll give you an easy job. We'll put you at the edge of the perimeter so you can be the lookout person, in case any roaming gangs come around. If you run back to the house fast enough,  you can draw their fire, and we'll protect you. Sorry, we don't have enough guns to go around, but that's okay. We're pretty good shots, so you're more likely to be picked off accidently by the neighbors, who are in on this with us...hmmm...now that I think of it, I'll have to tell 'em there may be visitors coming...they're sorta trigger happy, but they're nice people.
• Sure, you can come to my house...er, no. Let me take that back. You can sleep in the barn, next to the rabbits. Then, when you wake up, you can dump the manure into the compost pile, then come up for breakfast. We can talk about the chores for the day while we're at it
• You look pretty hardy...looks like you have a strong back. How good are you at swinging an axe? By the way, how much can you lift? Come to think of it, I need someone to carry buckets of water from the stream up to the house. Hmmmm....perhaps that's something we could give to your wife or your kids to do...
• You aren't scared of masangua rattlesnakes, are you? I swear, we've seen more of them.   Be sure to wear some heavy boots if you're comin' down. Hunting for them is a blast, and they're delicious...tastes just like chicken. I'll teach ya how to skin 'em, along with the rabbits.
• Oh yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, I could use someone to help me clean and gut the fish, tend the garden.
• And lemme tell ya, at the end of the day, you'll be glad to get some sleep. Uh, wait a minute...that is, unless you're scheduled for guard duty. We may have to rotate the schedule somewhat.

And, to end the conversation, be accommodating and say, "I'm only going to let a few folks in on this, so please keep this under your hat, okay? "

Of course, if you don't live in the country, you'll have to change your responses somewhat. As for me, once someone listens to that and is still interested, willing to earn their keep, then, they're welcome, if they have enough gas to get there and manage to find the place.

One caveat to this approach is that people will think that you're INSANE and avoid talking to you, which is fine by me. I don't want to have anything to do with people who say "I'll just come over to your house" anyways. I don't talk about anything regarding Y2k unless provoked/asked, so I haven't had the opportunity to use this approach much.

As for the people who intend to mooch/plunder/take without pulling their load/contributing/bartering in return, I don't know how they can sleep at night. You will eventually be accountable for your actions.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), June 18, 1999.

My standard response to the line "We'll just come to your house," is "Sorry, my guest list is already full, but I will be more than happy to help you get started on your preparations. When can we get together?"

If the other party laughs off getting together to work on preps, I say "Seriously, we WON'T have supplies for the uninvited. Asking us to give up what we have set aside for ourselves would be asking us to join you in a suicide pact, and we're preparing in order to avoid exactly that outcome. Call me if you need some help getting started. But don't wait much longer or it will be too late."

-- Faith Weaver (suzsolutionws@yahoo.com), June 18, 1999.

Too late for me, the secret's out and now it's a big joke around the office. That's what comes of ordering supplies while you're at work. With any luck it will always be a joke. If not, well, my preps are moving in a more aggressive direction to compensate...overall it might be good. I was getting a bit complacent about location and defenses.

-- Nope (not@thistime.com), June 18, 1999.

Look, anyone who thinks that they and their stash will remain secret if TSHTF is fooling themselves. Rumors spread like wildfire during disasters and the first person who even *suspects* that you are prepared will be at your door in a heartbeat. All it takes is a whiff of food-cooking to send some very hungry people your way...

I've taken the approach of hiding my actions from no one. I let them know we'll do what we can to help, but not to count on us for their continued existence. I also let them know that every adult staying in my house will be armed and we will do what we must to protect ourselves and our families. That usually gets them thinking of alternatives to "I'll just come to your house..."

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), June 18, 1999.

Yeah, Tech, you're probably right. I've been in the "fooling myself" category for a while, but it's looking untenable already.

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), June 18, 1999.

My standard answer to 'well, we will just come to your house for ....' is a firm and direct, "NO YOU WILL NOT. We will not be accepting visitors." This generally results in a shocked look, followed by nervous laughter. I then explain I am giving them all the help I have to give, by warning them and offering to help them get started. (and it doesnt hurt to mention our fire power and target shooting, either!)

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), June 18, 1999.

Here's a post from another forum that speaks directly to this issue. It's old, but (I think) still relevant.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Date: July 30, 1998 04:32 PM Author: JL Foreman (signal84@linkline.com) Subject: You have Options to survive, here they are

A friend sent me a copy of a letter her husband had sent to a friend of his at work.

> Homer wrote: > > > > Terry and Lisa , Thanks for the reality check. I think I hear the train coming. Please send directions to where you live.

> >Homer

> Terry/Lisa Bowden wrote: > Homer,

> It is good to hear that you are ready to take action. Please be assured, I have no prejudice. I will accept slaves regardless of color.

It would be better for you to be your own master rather than my slave, but what can I say?

To those who fail to plan for the future, sometimes life can deal cruelty to them. Starting wages will be a meager cup of field corn for a 14 hour work day. I will be making preparations for you and directions will be forthcoming.

> Glad to see you take y2k seriously!!! > Sincerely, Terry > P.S. One good thing to look forward to in your new employment under me is that I don't issue warning letters! The bad news is... > I do believe in caneing.

This hit me like a wake up call. We can laugh right now about the letter, or get offended or whatever your personal take is, but its reality is like a bucket of cold water.

You haven't seen, in America, people this desperate to live to see the next day . If y2k is what it looks like its going to be, you will see them. You may be one fifteen months from now.

The right response to the refugees is often argued back and forth on this forum. That's theoretical. Put yourself there. You have limited supplies, yet the people you told this about look you up as if you owe them something.

Don't give me this gushy "You can all come" crap. The fact is, if they come your children will starve. At the same time, I'm tired of the "shoot em" bravado.

I think Lisa and Terry have harshly but realistically painted the more likely scenario.

No one you meet begging after 2/1/99 had to be begging. They could have done the research and taken the steps to get prepared. No one owes them anything.

But in decency you want to give them something. And the fact is you need them around you too if they are decent people. We're not going to make it without community. Something like Terry's arrangement will work out.

(And notice how Terry has cut to the heart of the issue, he is trying to get Homer to see that if he doesn't prepare, knowing what he now knows, he is really nothing more than a slave right now, he just doesn't know it in his false pride.)

INDENTURED SERVICE

I get emails every day from people who are financially desperate and ask me for help. I am not for a minute denying their desperation. I get torn up every time I read those things and the advice I give them is not as picturesque as Terry's advice, but it is in the same ball park. It's hard words to people facing hard choices.

Do you really think that Y2K is going to hit? If so, do the following:

Stop halting between options. Decide what you think is coming and plan for it. Don't be 75% convinced but only give 10% action to achieve that goal. If you are 80% convinced but you don't act on that conviction you are the biggest fool of all. You deserve . . . no you don't even deserve Terry's level of mercy.

I'm not saying get radical, I'm saying get off the fence one way or the other.

Do this. Imagine the world in June, 2000. Whatever you think is reasonable to expect in that month you should begin now to prepare for. Period. Ruthlessly. Don't look back.

If you think it will be chaos where you live do the following:

Track down every source of money you can think of. I believe all of us have more assets than we think at first. Even the Israelites borrowed from the Egytpians as they left town. It's time to think of cousins, uncles grandparents and parents. It's time to think of 2nd or third jobs and selling cookies. Of dropping insurance payments and buying food with them. I don't recommend any of these, I'm simply pointing to how money is spent and who might be a source. Evaluate it in light of what you believe is coming.

Buy food You can buy 5,000 lbs of corn for about $500 and a mortar and pestle for $15 there's your first year's food. Yeah I'd rather eat ready reserve or buy AlpinAir from Will. But corn beats sucking wind and watching my skinny little babies crying pitifully covered by flies who are eating better than they are.

Now you need a safe place? The net is full of people who are moving out to the country. Advertise for them, read the forums and write some of those who post whom you think are decent family people (most on this forum are decent, even the lurkers). Sell your services for 7 years to someone with land in the country.

No one will have you? Make as many contacts as you can and when next summer comes you may find more who are interested. Make this deal with them. If it looks like Y2k will be the big one, you will become their indentured servant for 7 years. Or go out to the countryside 70 to 100 miles from where you live right now. Go to church out there and pick some decent folks that have some land and you think are straight up. Get to know them and bargain with them to be their servants for 7 years. They will not believe you, but as events wear on they may be open to it about the time you need to flee. Then simply flee and arrive on their door step. If you have food they will probably let you set up somewhere on the property and your first task will be shelter. Once that is built you will need to do everything your new provider wants you to do. Your wife can work in her kitchen and your kids can clean up around the house and yard.

Housing There are trailers for sale as low as $500 to $1000. "I'd never live in one of those" you say? What if that isn't your option. What if you can't even live in one of those and all you have is a wooden-lean to? Again go back to the picture of y2k in June and ask if you would give your right arm to be able to live in one of those.

If you are on the internet reading this, it means you have access to $1000 to $2,000 and you can survive on the budget plan.

Friend, don't feel sorry for yourself, throughout history most people would have given their right arm to have assets of $1,000 to $2,000.

Quit despising the day of small things and feeling sorry for yourself.

To: THOSE OF YOU WHO CAN AND ARE PREPARING

When my Father first went as a missionary to China and then Korea he went over with all of the modern American egalitarian nonsense thinking that it is immoral to have servants.

What he discovered is that comparatively he was so wealthy (by their standards) and the countries so poor that his refusal to have servants was the same as selfishly seeing to it that dozens of people be prevented from having honest useful work and the corresponding pay. They couldn't do much but the could take care of many of the missionary's day to day needs, and in turn we found that three levels of servants could be hired down stream from the average missionary.

I recommend the same rethinking of your situation. You may think of yourself as barely surviving but there are many out there who have nothing. If you could provide a place for them to build a shelter and fields to start working on or some goats to tend you will be saving a family's life and providing much needed protection for your own community. Also doing so in the context of honest hard work and giving people a chance to work their way back on their feet.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), June 19, 1999.