Consider: Due to EY, this is one of the best known Y2k Sites on the Net - The people here that are "preparing" represent only an infinitesimally small cross section of those who "know" about Y2K.greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Doesn't it bother some of you who have really gone out on the longest and narrowest limbs to know that *YOU* are in the minority. That if Armageddon really strikes that *YOU* will be outnumbered literally hundreds of thousands to "ONE". That all your preparations will do you little, if any, good - should TEOTWAWKI really happens.
If the end is near, it is not because of Y2K. It will be God's decision and all the preps in the world won't help you if you haven't got things squared away with Him.
Trust God. He can get you and your family through anything.
Trust your better judgement. If something looks, walks and talks like a duck, it is more than likely a duck!
Best wishes to all of you as the moment of truth approaches swiftly!
yours in Cobol. Dino
-- COBOL_Dinosaur (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), June 16, 1999
I think the out-numbered ratio is closer to 4:1. Polls consistently show that 27-30% of Americans intend to stockpile something.
-- Lisa (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
Rather a stong statement, all-encompassing, isn't it? Inglamatory also - and it doesn't stand up to reasoned analysis at any of several points.
1. Regardless of your religious beliefs, God doesn't not appear to have anything to do with the government and business ineptitude and malpractice that caused the potential year 2000 problems.
I recommend you trust God, if any individual wishes, but God has given every one of us the requirement to take care of ourselves and our families. After we pass on, then he'll take care of us. Unless you don't believe in Him, then maybe he won't take care of you. (It is my opinion somebody else, less pleasant, will take care of you at that point.) Those who choose to fight for their faith and freedom (as at Masada, on the Morman trail, through Valley Forge and during the Yom Kipper War) make better role models than those who chose to be mere lion bait..
2. TEOTWAWKI has perhaps a 0.5% to 2.5% chance of occurring - while it cannot be neglected, doesn't it strike you as foolish to ignore the 99.5% chance of irregular failures occurring in widespread areas whle concentrating on that single event? And, as pointed out many, many times, simply being ready for irregular failures allows a person to also begin to be ready (mentally and physically) for worse.
To surrender, to pretend that society will collapse, because "everybody else is" - or because one person says so" is "to jump of of a bridge" because everybody else wants to. Instead, make reasonable, prudent preparations for uncertainity - reinforce those preps as time and money allow, and hope for the best. Why quit? Or do want to discourage anybody from preparing simply because "not everybody" is preparing? That doesn't make sense either.
3) Why confuse issues with your analogy about a duck? We have agreed Y2K is a duck - please make your conclusion from that premise.
-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
Customer Communications for Y2K: Research Findings
Some information from the FRB regarding Trust and Banks.
With all due respect to your beliefs, I have mine, but what has god got to do with Y2K. If there is disorder in our social fabric and we must trust in God? Just because there is a problem with what ever you discribed above, I am sure God is far more interested in you trusting in him regardless of Y2K or if things rolling smoothly. There is a creator and we should respect that with the birth and death of each being on this earth. Cobol, it seemed to me that you were a Y2K moderate. The tone of your post gives me the impression that you expect worse. Best of luck to you
-- Brian (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
Its interesting that you said 27 to 30% INTEND to stock up. That MIGHT be true. But theres a long hike between intent and DOING IT.
So the amount of people prepared more than for "a three day storm" IS a minority of a minority, less than 5% I would say.
-- Jon Johnson (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
COBOL Dino...God helps those who help themselves. That's why he gave us arms and legs. I fully trust God to have given me the abilities to stand tall and face whatever comes down the road at me. My ideals and ethics are gifts from him. I will not let him down.
-- Will continue (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
Maybe it is endtimes and maybe not. I trust God. That doesn't mean I don't prepare. Joseph prepared from 7 good year for 7 bad years and saved the nation of Israel. Unless you are a prophet you don't know for sure when end times will be..even though the signs are all around I admit. If you are wrong and don't prepare and it is endtimes how you going to take care of your family???
-- Moore Dinty moore (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
0.5% chance of teotwawki? I doubt that. More likely it depends on where you are. Some parts of the world barely function right now. The "world as we know it" really exists only in the West & parts of the East. It's still 1930, or even 1830, in many parts of the world.
As for the neighbors being unprepared, this to me is just about the scariest part of the whole thing. Can we be warm & well-fed for very long while the neighbors are cold & starving? Not bloody likely. I'm afraid the evening-out process won't be pretty.
-- thanks (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
The evening-out process is right.
My strategy if it goes Milne will be to lay low, with backup, with enough supplies to last me for many many months. If I get that far without trouble from roving gangs and such the worst will be over. Disease will be a big problem - likely to kill more than famine IMHO.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 16, 1999.
A little background -- COBOL Dinosaur has been posting with the major pollys on BFI and Der Boonkah. Yesterday on Der Boonkah CD described his responsibility for a potentially very serious situation and outlined his concerns--definitely justifiable concerns. He wasn't given much beyond, "don't worry." Here's the post -- please answer him courteously and kindly and give him some pertinent sources to look at. This guy has a load on his shoulders.
Debunking Y2k webboard
COBOL Dinosaur maybe headed for his cave - Tuesday, 15-Jun-1999 10:18:06
Every now and then I get the urge to just throw in the towel. There is just too much information out there that is being ignored by both sides of this issue. It seems, to me, that the information available points to a posture that is less than a "3" (1-10 scale of impact magnitude) for the United States and other Industrial class countries. However, it pains me to think of the lack of preparation of the third world countries - or perhaps the lack of information from these countries leads me to believe that they are unprepared. Preparation, in my book, is the remediation of systems (both computer program as well as data) rather than the storage of fresh water and generator fuel etcetera.
As well as working in the IT industry for these many years, I am also the Chairman of our Church's Y2K Taskforce. We have had few issues that we have not been able to deal with in a logical manner. Those issues are primarily involved with our elderly (many of whom have been scared by the "doom" reports) and lastly our missionaries which we have scattered across 15 different countries such as Nepal, Cameroon, Bangladesh, Tanzania, et al. The group is looking to me for leadership in regard to these areas - It is not an easy position to be in. I can be classified by some as a Pollyanna in regard to USA preparation. But then while I am not a "doomer" in regard to the 3rd world countries, I am far less than optimistic for them. I know that ultimately we are all in God's hands - and I also know that he plays a big part in guiding me in my leadership roles. However, I feel very shortsighted in some ways and I am hard pressed to come up with better vision!
So, how do you address people living in 3rd world countries in regard to preparation? Most of them wouldn't know a computer if it hit them. You can bet that the government of those countries runs on computers - many of which are hand-me-downs from years gone by.
Think, for a moment, about countries like Uganda and Rwanda. Rwanda is a country on the brink of civil war between the gangs and the government. If the monetary system (banks) in Rwanda collapses or even Hiccup, what will happen to the police who are no longer being paid? Will they continue to hold the gangs at bay, or will they become part of the problem. Civilized people (industrialists and workers) will be slaughtered for their possessions if the gangs take over. Missionaries are at risk as well because most of the gangs think they are rich people from the west!
Maybe I need to just take a break from all of this. Constructive suggestions are welcome - flames will be ignored.
Yours in COBOL... Dino!
The thread went as follows --
COBOL Dinosaur maybe headed for his cave (COBOL Dinosaur) (15-Jun-1999 10:18:06)
COME ON!!! How deep could the "systems integration" in third world countries even be?? (cpr) (15-Jun-1999 10:38:46)
Re: COME ON!!! How deep could the "systems integration" in third world countries even be?? (Thad) (15-Jun-1999 10:55:10)
I saw the power supply for the Bank of Nigeria on TV once. (Paul Davis) (15-Jun-1999 12:09:44)
I agree. (Anita) (15-Jun-1999 13:36:36)
Re: COME ON!!! How deep could the "systems integration" in third world countries even be?? (COBOL Dinosaur) (15-Jun-1999 13:50:11)
COBOLLER: Solution for YOU. (15-Jun-1999 13:58:34)
Sample: Subject: Y2kAFRIK SMME Program: Case Study 001 (cpr) (15-Jun-1999 14:00:48)
Re: Sample (COBOL Dinosaur) (15-Jun-1999 14:08:49)
BTW: POS and charge card systems are sort of "freestanding" (cpr) (15-Jun-1999 14:10:28)
-- OutingsR (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
I don't know if this will help but it comes from the heart of someone that has your worries.
Urban Survival - Y2KChaos The Y2K Survival Site
ONE OF MY ELDERS PUT IT THIS WAY
"Our Church is built on the San Andreas Fault and in the middle of
100,000 poor people. And on the edge of about 6 million more poor
people in the midst of 12 million of people who make up one of the
most immoral and corrupt areas on earth. If we're not ready for a large
public, social catastrophe, and if we're not ministering to all those
around us who have faced private civilization-ending catastrophes in
their own life, how do we think we are prepared to serve our Lord
under any circumstances good or bad? Remember, He withered a fig
tree for bearing no fruit and it wasn't even in season. Imagine what He
must think of us ignoring the most basic opportunity to be prepared to
minister in His name and that's entirely aside from Y2K monsters under
-- Brian (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
If at the time you said the TITANIC would sink on its maiden voyage you would have been branded a: NUTTER,MENTALLY INSANE,DISTURBED and sent to the mental hospital,no proof.
With y2k you have a (floating) mountian of proof (iceburg)and still they call us nutters, mentally insane etc.
Some people just dont want to hear the truth.
-- Graham hyslop (Bob@ghoward-oxley.demon.co.uk), June 16, 1999.
Brian - thankyou!
-- Arlin H. Adams (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
I see the outings mutherfucker is still allowed to steal others posts and plaster them here, personal info and all.
What in the hell makes you think it is ok to do this? If Cobol wants his posts here, he will post them here dumbshit!
-- Super Polly (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), June 16, 1999.
Sounds like Outings is the biggest troll of them all. To become so good at this, you must spend a lot of time at the BFI site. Maybe you post there too but of course, stirring the pot in the opposite direction.
-- Stir (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
Thank you for piping up. I checked out the site that Outings put up and am most impressed with Mr COBOL Dinosaur. Now that I have read his comments it is aparent that he is a man with a heart and vision. My hats off to him and his churches efforts.
How this reflects on your comments of assistance on this matter, or lack there of, is for the readers to choose. If you are the standard for commentary at the forum mentioned above then Mr. Cobol is looking at the wrong place for intelligent suggestions.
-- Brian (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
no brian I'm not the spokesman. I only posted there a few times.
-- Super Troll (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), June 16, 1999.
Here is a link from the U.S. State Department. There are LOTS of links to various countries around the world. Hope this helps
US State Department - Services - Y2K
-- Brian (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
"The people here that are preparing represent only an infinitesimally small cross section of those who 'know' about Y2K."
I say Baloney! There are all kinds of people that have never laid eyes on this forum that are prepared, or are preparing. The other day in Sav A Lot, I saw a woman with cases of canned goods, and stacks of TP. I grinned and said, "Company coming?" She smiled back and said, "No, Y2K." I asked her if she read about it on the Net, and she said, "No, TV." So in spite of so many assertions that only people on this forum are bright enough to "get it," quite the contrary is the case. Will enough be prepared if it's really bad? Probably not.
And if God will "get you and your family through anything," then why has he/she/it left so many worthy, who worship at his feet, and walk in his steps, high and dry during their times of catastrophes?
"You have noticed that the human being is a curiosity. In times past he has had (and worn out and flung away) hundreds and hundreds of religions, and launches not fewer than three new ones every year. I could enlarge on that number and still be within the facts." Mark Twain
-- gilda (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
Sub-Super polly commented:
"I see the outings mutherfucker is still allowed to steal others posts and plaster them here, personal info and all.
What in the hell makes you think it is ok to do this? If Cobol wants his posts here, he will post them here dumbshit! "
Yes indeed OutingsRus it is quite apparent that your timely and revealing posts are having an effect on these sub-amateur trolls. Keep up the GREAT work!! Soon these sleezy folks will slither away into oblivion.
-- Ray (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
You wrote: "If the end is near, it is not because of Y2K. It will be God's decision and all the preps in the world won't help you if you haven't got things squared away with Him."
David Wilkerson has written similar words in his latest book.
I suspect many people smugly situated in their mountains of provisions will be quite surprised when unexpected twists of events beyond their control uproot their deep conceits and expose their selfishness.
Be prepared to lose it all.
The end is near!
-- Randolph (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
Super Polly -- As is usual for Der Boonkah adherents you are appyling a double-standard. In the following post, just a couple of days ago, you indicate you yourself are saving particular posts to cross-post and suggest others do the same. Are we to do as you say, not as you do???
I think Mutha was right about the swamp
Monday, 14-Jun-1999 03:27:52
They are making there [sic] move to start censorship in earnest. Is anyone else going to save old "prediction" threads to throw in there [sic] faces later? I think the new censors will just start deleting the ones that are to [sic] embarrassing or re-wording them to get the poster off the hook.
Stir -- we thank you for your compliment on our prowess and effectiveness. Pity you spoiled it with your scurrilous accusation that we post over at Der Boonkah. We are VERY careful not to impose our beliefs on forums with opposing views.
(end cut and paste)
Now, do either of you have anything helpful to offer COBOL?
-- OutingsR (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 16, 1999.
(1) You need COBOL programmer? I've used the language since sometime around 1970.
(2) A lot of my non-computer literate friends (carpenters, engineers, firemen, hula dancers, and timeshare salesfolks) are preparing for Y2K. Some won't talk about it except to those they know are of like mind. But we had no trouble unloading a bunch of free chicken cages! And the ladies of our church are eager to learn more about canning and jelly making. My recipe for SPAM and rice is in demand!
-- Mad Monk (email@example.com), June 16, 1999.
Super Troll...you just posted there a few times? It's a shame you don't do ALL your posting there.
Cobol...My prayers are with you. Please feel free to find a home here with the rest of us 'nuts'. I don't think you fit too well at Der Boonkah.
-- Lobo (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 17, 1999.
COBOL, here's a link to English language newspapers all over the world. I think you'll find most, if not all, of your countries of interest represented. If there are no Y2K specific articles available, there should be e-mail addresses, so that you can ask questions of someone. In addition, have you contacted the USIA or State Department to see if they have a Y2K appraisal of those countries?
-- Old Git (email@example.com), June 17, 1999.
Some links re Africa:
PC Magazine South Africa - Y2K Resource Center - zdnet.co.za/pcmag/special/y2k/index.html
US Information Agency - A New U.S. Partnership with Africa - Y2K - www.usia.gov/regional/af/usafr/e8091701.htm
Y2K Africa Overview from Issue 20 of The Antidote - www.theantidote.co.uk/y2k/africa.html
MSA AFRICA Y2K READINESS - home.pix.za/ah/aht1/y2k.htm
S. Africa braces for Y2K bug - www.bergen.com/morenews/africa2719981127.htm
Africa meets on Y2K - www2.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/all/98111675C2
South Africa: RSA: Further on Y2K 'Brain Drain' Issue - www.millenniumbomb.com/_mbombnews01/00000007.htm
Y2K Meeting in Gabarone, Botswana, Africa Main Home Page. Y2K Information - Home. Task Force - Home. Neighborhood Groups - Home. Section 1: Y2K Information - URL: www.y2ksantacruz.org/y2kinfo/africa.htm
South Africa On Verge Of Declaring Martial Law In Advance Of Y2k - www.iahf.com/africa/990111b.html
-- happy (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 17, 1999.
I would like to pause a moment to thank the many of you who posted helpful comments to me in regard to the situation many of our missionaries are faced with in the 3rd World Countries.
While I am still quite optomistic about the situation here at home in BigCity-USA, I have a somewhat pessimistic viewpoint of many of 3WCs out there. I am following up with the links and E-mail addresses sent to me both in this forum and via private E-mail.
I have tried to send most of you private E-mail back, but find the messages returned as undeliverable - so I thank you here, where it all started.
Please let me know if there is any way in which I may help you too!
God be with you all...
Yours in COBOL... Dino!
-- (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), June 18, 1999.
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