Is this forum pro or con for y2k?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I am kinda a newbie here and I haven't quite figured out if this board is for people that think y2k will be tragic, or if this board is trying to convince people that y2k will be nothing. I must admit I enjoy the debates. I could never debate as artfully as some do, and sometimes I have trouble understanding exactly what is being said. I read Cory's reports and I read Gary North's articles but I have not found a 'polly site' to balance out what I have already read. Where do the pollys get their information and is it available on the net? As of now, I am prepared for six months of food and debt free and somewhat scared of what the future might bring. P.S. I have a legit e-mail for this forum only.
-- Carol (email@example.com), June 10, 1999
It is ALL over the map!
Wear high-top boots here... at least... lately.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 10, 1999.
Debunking Y2k - http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb237006
Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot - http://22.214.171.124/HyperNews/get/gn.html
-- Old Git (email@example.com), June 10, 1999.
Sounds like you've made a good start on your preparations. Assuming you take Diane's excellent advice about the boots, you'll find (or more accuratley, I find) this forum to be the best place to read well thought-out opinions, often well defended. There are quite a few people looking hard and seriously at what we're facing, and doing their level best to make sense of it. Which, as you seem well aware, ain't easy.
And it shouldn't take you long to discover that there's really no such thing as 'polly' information or 'doomer' information. ALL of the information can be used to support *either* position, and it is! True, many of the rationales being used are far-fetched, but this is comically beyond the comprehension of those who create such rationales. All you have to do is pick a postion, ANY position, and you'll be delighted to find that everything you read supports it just wonderfully. That's the beauty of y2k.
-- Flint (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 10, 1999.
Sorry carol, I hate to add to your confusion. Mr. Flint has, in my view always been "different". He prepares and yet he tends to "soft- sell" y2k. Many of us don't. It is most serious and grows more worrisome each day. The majority of facts proove out to imply that you WILL need your six months of food and perhaps more (if possible). Do not take this lightly, as I'm sure you may have been given the impression from MISTER FLINT. Continue to use your common sense as you have obviously done so far. Do NOT accept light-hearted phoo- phoo. Sounds like you're on the right track....good luck!
-- Will continue (email@example.com), June 10, 1999.
This forum is "pro," "con" and neutral. . .all at the same time.
'Kinda like most other issues in life.
-- FM (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 10, 1999.
Want a good way to know where you stand today?
You might look at history.
Start with the parts about victims when there has been a crack in the system.
Look into things like self-defense and self reliance. Great help to any unsure mind. Spend 99% of your time on that, and 1% on polly or doomer information, and no matter what happens you will be the best prepared for it.
-- BiGG (email@example.com), June 10, 1999.
If the government is any answer, head for the hills with a year's worth of provisions.
-- Casey (****@y2k.net), June 10, 1999.
"As of now, I am prepared for six months of food and debt free and somewhat scared of what the future might bring."
As if that should be unique to Y2k?!? If everybody during "normal" times had 6 months of food and was debt free, the world would be a more stable place. Heck, 50-100 years ago 6 months of food and debt free was common!
-- Ken Seger (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 11, 1999.
Most of us are well intentioned. The G.I.'s (get its) feel that the general public is unaware of the Y2k issue and will not do much about it until the last minute. Our intention is to inform of the possible negative effects and to motivate people (newbies) to go ahead and make some fundamental preparations so the general population will not find the shelves poorly filled or empty. It is in the best interest for everyone to buy now for a later time. Look at expiration dates and for items having higher caloric value for the money. Tuna in oil as opposed to tuna in water = greater calories per money spent. You may even go as far as purchasing canning equipment if you have a garden or means to hunt and save. If you do buy canning jars, it won't be that much more to go ahead and get spare lids for later so it won't be a waste for only one time use. Jars last a lifetime. You'll notice many ways people decide how they want to store water. I chose to drill an extra water well and put a D.C. water well pump with solar panels to power it. That is expensive, however, is within the limits of my sensibilities, given the fact I live in the country and get power from a source that buys power from a greater source. I'm at the end of the electricity chain. Those are the things you must take into account. Self sufficiency is another topic outside of Y2k, yet coincides with it too.
Good luck and we hope the best for you and your family......sincerly, Feller
-- Feller (email@example.com), June 11, 1999.
Carol, I've read the posts on the forum for five months, don't post much unless necessary. I've noticed there are LOTS of big egos being stroked here frequently, and lots of people who post info like they are experts in the subject but can't quote sources when asked. The info is not necessarily reliable and it comes from everywhere. There are those here who will make fun of newbies and of each other. Take your chances with gleaning good info, there are those here that do seem to have actual practical knowledge and experience. You will have to sort it out for yourself.
-- Barb (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 11, 1999.
All the Y2k forums should adopt as their motto,
"First get your facts straight, then you can distort them any way you please!" -Mark Twain
(Flint, I thought you might appreciate this...)
-- Debbie (email@example.com), June 11, 1999.
The MISSION of this forum is an exchange of thoughts and ideas to help people prepare for y2k. If you have been lurking for awhile, you know that doesn't always happen. But we continue in spite of all the rants and natterings of the polly's.
-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), June 11, 1999.
How about laying out all those "facts" in a nice long post (new thread?). Since you have concluded Y2K will be a catastrophe, why not share all that factual data with those of us who are not convinced.
-- Mr. Decker (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 11, 1999.
Carol, for a very brief (and fairly complete) synopsis of what one 9.5+ GI thinks lies ahead of us, go to my website, look up the article entitled "An Introduction", and look at the 1st and 3rd paragraphs. The address is www.y2ksafeminnesota.com.
-- MinnesotaSmith (email@example.com), June 11, 1999.
I've been scavenging information for two years. Although I'm probably considered to be a pretty good organic chemist, I'm not an expert at anything (just ask my wife and kids). The best thing about this forum is that it scavenges for information -- some verifiable, some not. (It is much easier to verify a disaster than compliance since it's pretty clear there is a lot of lying going on from high places.) You must apply an aweful lot of ring-of-truth logic. Lastly, y2k gets in your head and won't let you go. My advice: figure out what you must do so that when it happens (whatever "it" is) you can say that you based your moves on sound, thoughtful logic.
-- Dave (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 11, 1999.
The value of this forum for someone like yourself who already "gets it" is in the debates. There are some very thoughtful responses posted here on virtually every possible Y2k issue. You will learn to ignore Will continue and FLAME AWAY once you've read a few of their posts because they never offer any substantive information. You will discover that there are some deep thinkers from the polly and the doomer ranks but I won't name them lest their heads might swell.
If you apply sound logic to your studies you will soon realize that Paul Milne and Cory Hamasaki are as full of baloney as Gary North. That conclusion comes easily when you look at all of their prophecies which have already failed to come about. For example, the stock market crash of 1998, the severe programmer shortage, the massive Y2k failures that were supposed to occur in January of 1999 and then April and now July, and so forth. If you wager at horseraces then you know that the key to determining how a horse will run today is his "past performance."
It's really not hard to sift thru the garbage here after you have lurked for awhile. In an evening you can determine who the intelligent regulars are and who are the noise makers (a Will continue by any other name is still a Will continue). After you have established that foundation, here are some tips you might find useful. First, when viewing a thread for the first tiem skim thru it and see if any of the heavy hitters have posted. If the thread has been up for more than a few hours without attracting the interest of the elite then it is probably usefless to anyone who is beyond the remedial level of Y2k awareness. Another tip is to skip the stuff the noise makers post on any thread unless you are just looking for some laughs. Skip all the threads by the whiners who complain about anyone posting any good news. If those folks had their way then this forum whould become a very dull place to visit.
If you have the time, become one of the elite who keep this thing moving along. If not, then at least give us your thoughts from time to time.
Final note, if you use a real e-mail address then you better have a lot of time on your hands 'cause your mail box is likefully to be very full. "Been there, done that, got the T-shirt!"
-- Woe Is Me (email@example.com), June 11, 1999.
Well woe - Wow, what comment (?)
Carol, the year 2000 will arrive regardless of what anybody does, or anybody doesn't do. Right? So that is not controversial.
We are (collectively) left with only a "few" questions stemming from that fact:
What is the impact of the change in dates if an agency, company, or individual does nothing? Answer: We don't know, nobody has dared test this scenario.
If a system, agency or company tries to remediate their systems, how successful will they be (on average?) in finding all their in-house problems, vender problems, infrastrucutre problems, and customer problems? How many will complete this level of remediation 100%?
Answer = we don't know, and we can argue about the impact, but will never know for sure, because nobody has gotten there yet.
What will happen to those who try to complete a audit, remediation and testing program, but only get 25%, 50%, 75%, or 95% through all their processes, venders, infrastructure, and customers?
Answer = we don't know, and we can argue about the impact, but it looks like we will find out in 6 months - because this is what it looks like will really happen.
What is the impact (on everything needed to support current conditions) of companies, individuals, and agencies failing to complete remediation?
Answer = we don't know, and can argue about this impact.
What is the impact _on each individual family_ of the protential failures stemming from all the above uncertainity?
Answer = we don't know, and can argue about it. Because "how society" reacts to the potetnial troubles, is a key factor in deciding what the impact of failues will be, and because "who is an average individual" affects "how" an individual will react, we can justifiably argue about politics and morals - because they affect "how" and "why" an individual will react to stress and discomfort.
Do you see the logic tree here? Only one fact cannot be disputed now: in six months, we will know more. In nine months, we will know more. In a year, we might be able to tell you (maybe by smoke signals, maybe by the internet) who came closest to predicting what parts of each scenario was most nearly correct.
-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 11, 1999.
Mr.Decker, It has taken me an entire year, and best guess average of 4 hours per day to accumulate the data available. Have you done NO research at all in this area? Perhaps you've been lead to believe it wasn't necessary in YOUR particular case. (superior cranial fluff and all) If you are unable to compile, evaluate, assess and form logical conclusions, based upon the overwhelming amount of available information, please do not be requesting additional assistance at this late date....*JUNE 1999* God Bless and best of luck, sincerely and truely yours,
-- Will continue (email@example.com), June 11, 1999.
Woe is me.....great handle!
-- Will continue (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 11, 1999.