I seem to recall Pope John Paul II not long ago making a public proclamation to the effect that divorced Catholics are permitted to remarry but must abstain from sexual relations in their new marriage because in the eyes of God and the Catholic Church they are still, and forever shall remain, married to their first spouse. Is this correct? Did I dream this? Please advise. Thanks!

-- Steve Brooks (stevebrooks@apta.org), June 09, 1999

Answers

Let me see if I can help. My guess is it should read as follows:

I seem to recall Pope John Paul II not long ago making a public proclamation to the effect that divorced Catholics who have civily re- married outside the Church must abstain from sexual relations in their new marriage because in the eyes of God and the Catholic Church they are still, and forever shall remain, married to their first spouse.

-- Br. Rich S.F.O. (repsfo@prodigy.net), June 09, 1999.

I have to think there is form of misunderstanding here on the issue. Surely two people living as man and wife would not be expected to have a full union in loving one another. Can we try this one again please?

Peace - Jean B.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 11, 1999.

Jean,

The key here is "living as man and wife" when they really are not "man and wife" No one can marry again in the Church if they have been validly married before and neither has died.

Br. Rich S.F.O.

-- Br. Rich S.F.O. (repsfo@prodigy.net), June 11, 1999.

So , in other words the "church" does not accept the grace of the lord Jesus Christ? Maybe Jesus should not have forgiven the whore that was about to be stoned?

"Those without sin throw the first stone"

-- Michael(non-catholic) (mdroe@erinet.com), June 11, 1999.

Remember that the last line is the most important one "now go thy way and from now on sin no more"

-- Br. Rich S.F.O. (repsfo@prodigy.net), June 12, 1999.

"What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder. . . . Jesus said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery'" (Mark 10-9-12).

Spoken by our Lord Jesus Himself. The Catholic Church didn't make the rules, Michael. She just strives to live by them, even when it gets tough.

Does your group allow Christians to remarry after a divorce?

What was that you were saying about breaking the commandments of God?

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), June 12, 1999.

A quote from the Lord Jesus Christ: " for i am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"

" judge not lest you be judged"

-- Michael(non-catholic) (mdroe@erinet.com), June 13, 1999.

Micheal

Catholics who are married inside the Church and get a divorce that is not approved by the Church have not in fact gotten a divorce because they did not get a divorce through the Catholic Church so sacramentaly the sacrament was not "broken" and so the new Marriage counts as Adultery and not a new Marriage at all. The Church is not judging but just tells its followers whats wrong to do and whats right to do.

-- E.H.Weiss (weisse@bmts.com), June 13, 1999.

Brother Rich please correct me if I am wrong.

-- E.H.Weiss (weisse@bmts.com), June 13, 1999.

i don't know if i am going to clarify the issue or get it more confused. i think that in the catholic church divorce is never accepted. after examining each case the church sometimes grants an annulment (Does it mean that the marriage never existed, or is it a true divorce?)

ENRIQUE

-- ENRIQUE ORTIZ (eaortiz@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.

Enrique, an annullment is indeed a statement that no sacramental marriage ever existed. So it is totally different than a divorce.

Michael, I see that you are very willing to break the commandments of God when it suits you. No thanks.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.

You got it. An Annulment states that no Marriage ever existed, because of some flaw in the original attempt.

The Catholic Church can and does approve of civil divorce. But the Church understands a civil divorce is equal to a permenant seperation. It does allow this for good reasons. It does not break the bond of a valid Marriage however. The two people remain married unless the Marriage is proven to be invalid.

-- Br. Rich S.F.O. (repsfo@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.

David P. i will take that as the first stone......ouch! Judgement does not lie on my shoulders. I do not believe the creator would find in favor of denying someone the chance to repent ones sins.

I guess that the RCC is without sins to throw so many stones!

Woe unto you that judge how you will be judged!

You deny a sinner access to eternal life! , i hope that the father doesn't treat you equally.

Sorry for your missunderstanding ,i tell nobody to break the law, but the contrary obey the law and if you have broken it, you have repentance through Jesus Christ!

Those that are not sick, do not need a doctor, but those that are sick do need a doctor.

A quote from the Lord Jesus Christ: " for i am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"

-- Michael(non-catholic) (mdroe@erinet.com), June 17, 1999.

Michael, the very simple biblical principle is that true repentance means resolving not to repeat the sin. If a man or woman has wrongfully divorced and remarried then their repentance is only true if they resolve to set that right. The first and best course is to seek reconciliation with the spouse they left (yes, even if that means leaving the person they are currently with, since that new partner is not a real "spouse" at all). The second and also very difficult course would be to stay with their current partner but live without sexual relations. Only in this way would they avoid being guilty of perpetual adultery. That is why the Pope said what he did; he's simply upholding Jesus' teaching (that's his job).

The Catholic Church did not make the moral law; God did that. That you think that "grace" means that you can sin with impunity as long as you "repent" shows how far your branch of Christendom has strayed from a true understanding of grace and repentence.

Grace is free, but it's not cheap.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), June 18, 1999.

"That you think that "grace" means that you can sin with impunity as long as you "repent" "

Please explain this in comparisom to a priest being able to "forgive" as long as 'you' confess/repent?

Shalom,

-- Jamey (jcreel@hcsmail.com), July 01, 1999.

The operative phrase there, Jamey, is "with impunity." There are lasting consequences to sin that can remain even if the sin itself is forgiven. If my son breaks a window with a baseball and repents I will forgive him, but I'll also make him pay for the window. Any sin, no matter how heinous, can be forgiven through the sacrament of reconciliation. But part of making a good confession is to resolve to sin no more. That is impossible if one is in a perpetually adulterous relationship and has no inclination to 1) leave that relationship to return to the original marriage or 2) cease from sexual relations.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), July 01, 1999.

As with David's example, I would also add that we need to confess our sin and make restitution (where possible) when we sin against others. If you cheat on your taxes you can ask for forgiveness from the Lord, but not only do you have to pledge never to cheat again (and live it), but your repentance is incomplete until you confess to the IRS and pay what you owe (minus 1 for grammar). If you speak ill of someone, you need to confess your sin to him/her and ask for forgiveness. John the Baptist told those he had baptized to go and bear the "fruit of repentance". Or in the words of James, "faith without works is dead".

-- David Bowerman (dbowerman@blazenet.net), July 01, 1999.

Steve, Regardless of what Pope John Paul II or any other Politician or Religious leader may say, God's opinion on divorce should remain the absolute law. Now in the beginning, God understood that marriage between man and woman was like the marriage of our love for God. His love for us is not just strong, but eternal, for he is eternal and loves us until our death from carnal life. So therefore, prior to any two people getting married, should they not question deeply and sincerely in their own hearts and souls and with God if the love they have for each other is that of unconditional love? Will they make a sincere vow that to stay together until death. You see, some people today, don't take marriage that seriously. They have divorce for the day in which their love for one another should die. Now I understand that love is an attribute of God, eternal. How can one say I love you without that love being eternal. They then would show that they never did have a Godly love for their spouse from the beginning of there marriage, and if they would have faced this from the beginning, they would not have gotten married in the first place. Thus, the issue of divorce would not even be an issue for them in the first place. I would suggest that, regardless of what any law of this land may state, every person facing marriage would seek God with all of their hearts and turn from all things unrighteous of sin, and turn to find grace in God by learning to have sincere, truthful, love for even our neighbors. If two people had that type of love for others, it would be impossible to not have that love for their spouse who over time will become more and more a part of themselves.

-- Curtis Haller (cbhaller68@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002.

I just wanted to add a note that I thought was relevant. Curtis suggested that love was an attribute of God. I think that it is was stated that "God is Love" which is totally different. The ramifications that this has on the whole concept of marriage and the love that exists between them must be considered. True love is God Himself and how trivial the upholding of earthly intepreted laws seems in this case. Where there is no longer love, God is no longer present. God would have broken the bond once placed not man. Can any man turn on his heart at whim? Who are we to question? Live and let live.

-- Brian Le Breton (faithope@nbnet.nb.ca), September 03, 2002.

Hello, Brian.
I'm sure that you know what you wanted to communicate, but it did not come through to me. I cannot tell for sure if you are saying that you believe that divorce and remarriage are OK or not OK. Can you please re-state your case more directly? Thanks.

I would like to respond to two sentences you wrote:

(1) "Where there is no longer love, God is no longer present."
Response: You must distinguish between two different kinds of "love." It is wrong to say that, if romantic love fades away, God is no longer present. Even when supernatural love (something that we will, rather than feel) disappears, God is still present, giving actual graces and sacramental graces to heal the marriage. A couple that no longer "feels in love" has vowed to remain together until the death of one of them. Each member of such a couple will pray for the strength to have a supernatural love of the spouse -- "love" in the sense of "willing the good of another." Romantic love can bloom again.

(2) "God would have broken the bond once placed not man."
Response: God does not break valid marital bonds, except through calling people from this world in death.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 04, 2002.

I love how the Catholic church can talk about how far protestantism has gone from God's law when the Catholic Church sees fit to change the 10 Commandments. The commandments clearly state God's view of having graven images as part of worship but yet the Catholic Church either ignores this or removes this from the Law altogether and then splits the last one into two to make up the numbers.

-- Costa (cjlord01@yahoo.com), April 15, 2003.

The scriptures do not say anything about "having graven images as part of worship". You twist the scriptures, trying to force them to conform to your own manmade traditions. The scriptures do have a great deal to say about the evil of WORSHIPPING graven images. That however is a non-issue in Catholicism, since the Catholic Church absolutely forbids the worship of anything or anyone other than the One True God who founded our Church.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 15, 2003.

Costa, I have heard the graven image argument many times. Have you ever knelt at the foot of the cross?

Are you praying to the cross, or what it represents?

Using images to focus your prayers is just that: focus.

What the real issue is: Does you believe in intersessory prayer?

Have you ever gone to the cemetary and "talked" to a loved one who has passed away?

No difference. God Bless.

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), April 15, 2003.