Russia Enscrewed (flint'spin jes fer fun) : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Posted to csy2k, my comments in parenthesis

>From the Dow Jones Newswires. >[It was damn hard not to crack wise about this one.] > >Robert Folsom >================== >June 7, 1999 >Dow Jones Newswires >Russia's Electricity Monopoly Needs 15,000 New Computers > >MOSCOW (AP)--Russia's electricity monopoly needs to replace a third of its >50,000 computers because of the Year 2000 computer glitch, a top official >said Monday. > >United Energy Systems (UES) needs $15 million to buy 15,000 to 17,000 new >computers and software to fix the remaining machines, said Alexander >Remezov, deputy chairman of the board, according to the ITAR-Tass news >agency. UES oversees Russia's vast electricity grids. > >Remezov did not say where the company would get the money, but said he hoped >to have it all by September and replace all the machinery by October. >


>He also said UES planned to conduct training programs on coping with the >so-called millennium bug at nuclear power plants, which it manages together >with the Nuclear Energy Ministry. >

( Russian Nuclear Plant Training Program

Step one: Bend Over Step two: Kiss Your Ass Good-Bye-ski )

>The Y2K bug may occur if older computers that use two figures to designate a >year mistake the year 2000 for 1900 and shut down or produce erroneous >information. > >Russia has been slow to tackle the computer glitch, largely because of >severe economic problems. A Nuclear Ministry spokesman said a few months ago >that his agency would "deal with the problem when we get to 2000." >

(No, Molasses at absolute zero is like a Cheetah streaking towards an injured gazelle compared to Russian Y2K remdiation efforts.)

(All the little morons who chirped that "Russia does not have the same Y2K problems ae nuclkear plants that we do because they do not utilize such a high degree of computer dependency" have choked their chicken for the last time.)

(It is hysterically funny that pollyannas even have the temerity to show their faces anymore. Evry single day the news that comes in gets markedly worse. Oh, we have the scattered happy face report. No matter . the bulk of the info flooding in is always of the caliber that EXACTLY corroborates standard IT Metrics. )

(The overwhelming majority are and will be late. Those that are late will be 18 to 24 months late.)

(Triage? LOL LOL Mission critical systems? ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO)

(On the whole. the world's economy will not function unimpaired with only less than ten percent of all extant software marginally functional.)

Now.... what would flint say? Hmmm......... Something like this...

"Now, Paul, just becuase the Russians have not begun, does not mean they will fail. They COULD get the money, ya know. They would have a whole two months to implement these systems. Everyone knows that a PC is fairly easy to set up. And even if they don't make what? The Russian economy is already gone, we would not really miss them. There is an abscence of the presence of presently absent evidence. And Vice Versa. Nobody knows. You're not God. And who says that they HAVE to have electricity to survive. A lot of their villages don't have electricity, ya know. Some of them can't even 'say' electricity, y'know, speaking Russian and all. Anyway, nobody knows if they will succeed or not."

Have at it flint-child. explain how not one of our Utilities is remdiated, tested an back in production after YEARS of work and the Russian systems that MANIFESTLY have not been remdiated will be functional only ***** IF**** they get the money in SEPTEMBER to ****BEGIN**** work on these systems in OCTOBER.

Here... let me wind this string around your waist and PULL real hard. There! Now give us your best SPIN.

-- Paul Milne (, June 07, 1999


Ignoring the money, I'd like to see that many systems deployed successfully in a single month! Sorry, gang, it won't happen that way.

-- Mad Monk (, June 07, 1999.

I like when he goes "Y2k won't be all that bad, unless its bad, and in that case it'll probably be pretty bad." :)

-- a (a@a.a), June 07, 1999.

Hey Paul, care to explain to us how you confused water systems with water treatment plants? We'd love to hear about it. After blundering so wildly, why did you run away? We're waiting, Paul...

-- Flint (, June 07, 1999.


Good for you flint-child! Misdirection is a fine tactic.

Since you can not answer the question, we will just score that as another concession on your part. I mean unless you can provide some kind of evidence of the failed remdiation LIKE I HAVE REPEATEDLY DONE.

But, I think not. You are empty handed once again and once again refuse to answer within the confines of the posted evidence.

Ineptitude is your long suit flint-child.

-- Paul Milne (, June 07, 1999.

uh, Flint, you're self destructing. The article in question said

"34,500 sites vulnerable to the millennium computer bug."


"The firms are currently testing hundreds of thousands of so-called "embedded systems" that control and monitor the flow of drinking water, and the collection and treatment of sewage. "

Milne is right, and, as usual, you are WRONG.

-- a (a@a.a), June 07, 1999.


So based on the evidence, what chance is there that the Russian infrastructure will collapse?

And how likely is it, that the failure of their grid coupled with their noncompliant weaponry, will change the world as we know it?

-- BB (, June 08, 1999.

In, say, 1997, one could look at the available evidence and make sensible projections saying that y2k was going to cause some pretty extreme problems. But seeing as it was 3 years till '00 one could hold out a measure of Our-Man-Flint-style wait-and-see equivocation. It didn't look good, but a lot could happen in 3 years... humans are resourceful so maybe we'd manage to extract our chestnuts from the fire before that freighttrain came down the track. (intentionally bad mixed metaphor!) Well, now it's 7/99!, and we can see that in most respects those projections were correct and the remediation is flat out failing in lots of places, pretty shonky in most other places, good-enough in suprisingly few places. Place your bets accordingly.

Be seeing you.

-- I think I'd prefer to be called "Number Six", "humptydumpty" seems to carry negative self-image connotations, and it sounds dinky. (, June 08, 1999.

Poor Russians, BTW. :~(

-- Number Six (, June 08, 1999.

Not only "poor Russians", but "poor Germans" as well. Didn't I read somewhere that Germany gets alot of its electricity from Russia?

-- Tim (, June 08, 1999.

I wonder now ... If I made up foolish words, put them in Paul Milne's mouth, and then attacked him for 'saying' them, would you people criticize me for it? Around here, I'd be blasted by nearly everyone.

But when the Great Milne pulls this stunt? Nobody says an unkind word, I notice. When trolls fake doomer handles, everyone screams at how vicious this tactic is. When trolls fake optimist handles, everyone laughs, their self-righteousness forgotton.

And you're upset this place is called a swamp? Try looking in the mirror sometime.

-- Flint (, June 08, 1999.

Pardon meeeeee? I've been doing it to you for the past week....and nobody's said anything to ME. "There is an abscence of the presence of presently absent evidence. And Vice Versa." EEEEEEEHOOOOOHOHOhaha. For God's sake Milne.....hooooooo, if you're going to continue posting here, mmmmmmmmaAAAAAh, I'm gonna have to keep kleenex on my dddeesskkk, bbbbwwwaaaha!

-- Will continue (, June 08, 1999.

Flint, approximately two or three posts above this one, " Number six , Iam not a" asked about specific ex-USSR expectations in view of PROVEN y2k non-compliance as of June 1999.

Flint, I am most interested in your answer. Please answer. I definetly need to read your answer and may assume that many others also need to read your answer, including yourself.

In the event your answer is wishy-washy, please face the fact that y2k will hit hard, that awareness and preparations are badly needed, and that helping out others understand this is of the essence.

By the way, if the ex-USSR doesn't have power (or not enough power) their gaspipes to Europe (50% of German consumption) freeze up. Do you agree? Are you aware of the consequences of that alone?

Please answer Flint

Your pal

-- George (, June 08, 1999.

I think I'll be buying some of that potassium iodiide soon. Doesn't sound 'to' good.

-- -. (dit@dot.dash), June 08, 1999.

Flint, if you could have posted any good news on Russia I believe we would have seen it by now.

Now here is what we doomers do. We then use the brain God has given us and ask if Russian computers go haywire, what could the possible consequences be in Europe. You see we don't read articles or hear the newscasters saying what this could mean. We realize that 80% of the code is outside the U.S. and it is far from being remediated much less tested. It strongly suggests teotwawki. So we are screaming...PREPARE.

When you get a factual report of good news on Russia PLEASE let us know.

-- BB (, June 08, 1999.


The article in question said that hundreds of thousands of water systems are being tested. The article was a year old. The testing has been going on for a year. Surely your puppet master would have started braying like the ass he is if those tests had turned up anything seriously amiss. Doesn't the combination of his use of obsolete material, his silence about the results, and his distortion suggest *anything* to you? If not, your precious ignorance isn't my fault.

George and BB:

I have not been following the situation in Russia. My impression is that very little data are available, and those few impact assessments we've seen are pure speculation, possibly dead accurate and possibly not. But my impression is nowhere near strong enough to voice an opinion. I don't have time to follow reports of foreign countries, and I don't claim knowledge that I lack. If you want someone to flip a two-headed coin and start screaming the predetermined results obscenely, you don't have to look very far. This forum is infested with uninformed opinions, all alike. Pick any one.

If you by some chance want an *informed* opinion, I encourage you to do some real research in this area. And I warn you that letting Milne do your research for you is like letting the criminal be the judge.

-- Flint (, June 08, 1999.

Flint said "This forum is infested with uninformed opinions, all alike. Pick any one. " ANY!!!

I appreciate that you might be getting grumpy because so many posters are nasty to you when they're disagreeing with you, but "ANY"?, as in "pick any one"... all the opinions here are alike and uninformed ?

Stan, Mike, Hardliner, Big Dog, Cheryl (etc etc justoffthetopofmyhead) do not strike me as being uninformed. They're brainy just like you Flint, except they're running better pattern-recognition software.

-- number six (, June 08, 1999.

Number six:

If I wasn't clear, I apologize. I said they could pick ANY uninformed opinion. I don't have any disagreement that the people you named are informed. Nor do I see anyone challenging any of them to pontificate about Russia, about which our knowledge is a black hole.

So I repeat: I'm ignorant about Russia. If anyone wants to guess, go ahead. If anyone has hard data, I'd love to see it.

-- Flint (, June 08, 1999.

Flint: The point of the article in question was to prove to Brad Sherman that indeed many embedded processors were involved in the distribution of water. Did you not understand this? Do you think that just because the article was published in Oct 98 that somehow in June 99 they no longer use these chips? What an ass you are.

And I like how you equate "no news" with "good news". Typical brainless pollyanna simpleton.

-- a (a@a.a), June 08, 1999.


If you have no idea what is going on in the other nations by now, and especially Russia, I can't help you. I really am surprised that you would make such a stunning admission and think you can retain credibility on y2k.

I don't follow Mr. Milne nor do I approve of his style ESPECIALLY since he claims to be a believer. Personally, I would be embarrassed, to profess Christ, and act the way he does. He does not honor Him. BUT, I will glean his posts for any information.

Russia, because of her nuclear stockpile, is a direct threat to the U.S. because of y2k. I have done my own research here, starting with J.R. Nyquist on Worldnetdaily. I suggest you do the same. Then Mr. Milne's provocations will seem to you like words from a loving friend.

-- BB (, June 08, 1999.


If you think the road to credibility is to speak from ignorance, by all means keep being inspired by Milne. I just feel differently.

From what I gather, our information on other countries (especially third-world) is extremely spotty at best. I'm willing to assume this means almost nothing is being done by the governments of those countries, and perhaps by the industries domestic to those countries (about which we know even less).

What I do *not* know anything about is the relationship between the headquarters of the multinationals, and their outlying (overseas) branches and subsidiaries, with respect to remediation. As an example, I don't know how much ownership any major oil company has of the drilling and refining capacities in countries like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. If these were even partially corporate assets of big companies, I'd expect them to be part of those companies' remediation efforts. But I haven't heard anything along these lines.

From what I read of Russia, (with the exception of nuclear capabilities like weapons and power plants) any concern over computer date-handling errors would be regarded as a luxury. From the perspect of most backward nations, our y2k worries probably look rather silly. When day-to-day survival is a real struggle, and the infrastructure is a sometime thing for those few even exposed to it, date bugs are lost in the noise.

-- Flint (, June 08, 1999.

There is an amazing elitism among Americans to discount the Y2K problem abroad as if everyone else was a peasant from Bangladesh who will notice no change.

For cryin' out loud, do you really think Russia, heart of the former "Evil Empire" has no significant computers? How in the hell did they get into space before we did??

It is an admitted fact by well-placed spokesmen in countries like Russia, Italy, Germany, and Venezuela, that Y2K remediation didn't begin in time. In the case of Russia and Italy, they're still in the planning stages. Good grief.

This press release about Russia is laughable, until you realize that the spokesman and most of his citizens are likely to be frozen to death by February.

-- Doug (, June 08, 1999.


Yes, I'm well aware of this elitism. Why do you think I began my paragraphs with "from what I gather" and "from what I read"? I haven't been to a third-world country in 30 years, so my impressions are filtered through the eyes of the media. And the media depict Russia as a nation whose economy has collapsed, whose infrastructure is at best unreliable and dilapidated, and where what little that runs is being run by the Russian equivalent of the mafia.

How accurate such depictions are, I don't know. What impact date bugs will have, I don't know. How much worse things can get, I don't know. Sorry.

-- Flint (, June 08, 1999.


I wish you did know, and I wish everyone knew. It would make planning a little easier, I reckon.

It all comes down to whether it matters if y2k is fixed or not. If it doesn't, then doomers will have worried for nothing, and corporations and governments have spent billions for nothing. If it does matter, then places that aren't ready, like Russia and Washington DC could become disaster zones.

Personally, I think there's enough evidence out there to indicate that serious problems are caused by y2k and so I think it's reasonable to conclude that bad things will happen in a lot of places.

-- Doug (, June 08, 1999.


In the past, I have found your cognitive thinking skills to be among the best on this forum. I am concerned, however, that the "wedgie" Paul gave you sometime back is starting to cut off the oxygen supply to your crainial cavity.

Take a deep breath and quit trying to slay the dragon(Milne), because (whether either of you like it or not)you are both closer to being on the same page than 99.9% of the rest of the world.

-- (, June 08, 1999.


you're right. Milne is a tar baby. I guess the best idea is to turn the other cheek.

-- Flint (, June 08, 1999.

"Take a deep breath and quit trying to slay the dragon(Milne), because (whether either of you like it or not)you are both closer to being on the same page than 99.9% of the rest of the world. "

cuju makes a good point. The same goes for Flint and myself. Flint, I'm about ready for that beer :)

-- a (a@a.a), June 08, 1999.

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