NOTICE: To Forum Posters Re: Trolls and Moderation : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

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PLEASE check recent questions and postings before you decide to post a new question of your own.

This forum has become exceedingly busy in the past couple of months, and there is a great deal of duplication of questionsand answers. This makes it difficult for visitors to sort through the blizzard of postings to find something useful.

Please refrain from using obscene language, or the post will be deleted.

Thank You,

The Time Bomb 2000 Forum Moderators Team


Forum Posters Please Note:

We are in the process of S-L-O-W-L-Y cleaning up this forum so we can get back on track with serious discussions--most the time--on Y2K and preparations.

Ed asked us to take over moderating, so we are. He did not have the time so this place became a free-for-all which was fine. It is now JUNE 1999--with six months to go before New Years Eve. Continuing the troll games is a waste of all our time.

The constant heckling, harrasing, profanity, flamming--within reason--and the barrage of TROLL attacks trying to disrupt the Forum need to stop. This intent has amply been proven to be the case by a small group of Debunker and Biffy posters, and others.

We have given some of the agitators polite warnings. PLEASE STOP THE TROLLING.

If continued, your post will be edited for profanity or deleted.

Get it?

For the rest of you trying to make sense out of Y2K we have requested your input:

Question: About the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) Forum & Changes

As one poster quotes:

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." (Patrick Henry)

That does not mean we are required to put up with those who heckle and do not contribute to the Y2K discussions.

Polly/Doomer and all flavors between Y2K extremes are welcome here. Anyone is welcome to post anonymously. Remember your manners and use your own handle. Try to refrain from submitting a flame and to clean up your behavior for us all.

Intentional meanness/rudness/profanity is no longer acceptable behavior. All contributors are welcome--even heated flamers--please attack the messag--not the messenger. Intentional disruptors will be encouraged to leave or to post comments/information adding value. Y2K on-topic and related issues, information and opinion/intelligence is preferred, though not required.

The Time Bomb 2000 Forum and Modertors Team is in the process of evolving and changing the forum's focus using your input. Newer guidelines will be posted--soon--under the Ask a Question and About sections.

Thank You!

-- Time Bomb 2000 Sysop (, June 06, 1999


My two cents: "If continued, your post will be edited for profanity or deleted."

I do not think this is a good idea at all. Do not edit. Never edit unless you are willing to state at the begining of the post that the post is edited and you are willing to attach the name of the editor, with highlighting of the edited sentence.

I would therefore suggest deleting the entire post if vulgar, inflamatory, or attacking, rather than editing.

-- Ken Seger (, June 06, 1999.

I wholeheartedly agree with Ken. I want to hear/see it all. (Though I agree with deleting the posts that are profane or personal info.) I may disagree with some opposite views but just like Rush Limbaugh (who I detest) at least they make me think about WHY I disagree.

Thank you.

-- Kristi (, June 06, 1999.

And while I know it's a burden, it would be nice to see something along the lines of "post from XXX deleted as unsuitable". The deletion history would be very informative.

-- Flint (, June 06, 1999.

censorship is always need only look at gun control to see that evil can be done with good intentions.I'm sure y2k pro can deal with the potty words.

-- zoobie (, June 06, 1999.

* * * 19990606 Sunday

-- Robert Mangus (, June 06, 1999.

* * * 19990606 Sunday

( Please pardon the previous typo of [Tab-Enter]? ... )

Concur with Ken, Kristi and Flint!

Regards, Bob Mangus

* * *

-- Robert Mangus (, June 06, 1999.

Oh, let the moderators have their little power trip if it makes them feel better. Probably the only 15 minutes of fame they will ever have.

-- Anti-chainsaw (, June 06, 1999.

Ummm...I am not a lawyer but I do know that if you start editing content you ARE making yourselves liable should someone decide to sue becuase they don't like what was said.

If you start editing content and someone up here posts a message that Company X is going to fail because management is clueless, Company X has the right to sue YOU personally for 'publishing' this information. And in order to find you, you can bet they would pull Ed into the fray. As long as you DO NOT edit content you are considered a 'common carrier' like the phone company. Edit content and you become a 'publisher'.

Be very careful where you tread here....


-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), June 06, 1999.

I agree with Ken. Posts should NEVER be edited. I've been on moderated forums before and if the guidelines stated no profanity, the moderator included a warning response UNDER the post, stating that if this behavior continues, the postings will be deleted (or after X warnings, the poster will be banned from further access to the forum.)

I have NOT appreciated the moderators simply inserting messages using brackets. I oftentimes use brackets myself to emphasize a point. I was very confused by the posts in which you folks did this. There was absolutely NO indication that this was done by the moderators.

Also, having been a moderator of a forum once myself, I agree with Mutha that your methods of distinguishing who posters are is lacking in correctness. The ONLY way that you can discern a poster "posing" as multiples is to notice that this poster used exactly the same port on exactly the same ISP within a period of minutes. Once a port on a given ISP is released, another poster may very well acquire that same port. I have NOT seen the posters you mentioned posting within minutes of each other. I haven't even seen them posting within HOURS of each other.

In addition (sorry for the rant, but this censorship has raised my fur), why is it that Off-Topic posts are allowed? If your goal is indeed to discuss Y2k and preparedness, why aren't all the posts off- topic deleted?

Regarding anonymous posters being welcomed, I'm STILL getting E-mails from daemon whatever stating that my E-mail couldn't get through to the poster who began a thread with a bogus E-mail address. As much as A has indicated that one shouldn't do so, he still doesn't uncheck the field that states "Don't respond with an E-mail." Perhaps the default should be changed to "Don't respond with an E-mail." Also, the software that states (in these E-mails), "If you've lost interest in this thread, please click here and we will stop notifying you." doesn't work. I'm still getting notified of failed responses to a thread I haven't touched in over a week.

End of rant,


-- Anita Spooner (, June 06, 1999.

I participate in the forum because it is what it is, slices of conversation reflecting the personalities and minds of people facing the Great Unknown. And it's rough reading, sometimes but if I want to follow the thread to get the info, I do it. Everyone has that choice.

What is the definition of profanity for the forum? What is the definition of intentional meanness? Who weighs intention? So define manners and profanity and intentional meanness and perhaps it will be easier to get the forum cleaned up for visitors? Was that the intent of the forum? I'm confused about these things. I'll wait to see the NEW GUIDELINES before I decide to even lurk. Thought police is not my idea of free speech. With all due respect...Barb

-- Barb (, June 06, 1999.

I guess I wasn't quite done. I was also quite annoyed when you moderators made a personal comment about Maria. It is NOT a moderator's place to comment on someone's personality, nor their style. It is ALSO not appropriate for a moderator to point out that posters respond to other fora on Y2k. I guess Ed gave you the power without the guidelines.


-- Anita Spooner (, June 06, 1999.

Who are the moderators? Who is Number One?

-- humpty (, June 06, 1999.


My bet is that one is Diane Squire and another is Ashton & Leska.


-- Anita Spooner (, June 06, 1999.


Those seem like safe bets. You can be sure that anyone who questions the severity of the coming catastrophe would never have been approached.

-- Flint (, June 06, 1999.

This forum is intended for people who are concerned about the impact of the Y2000 problem on their personal lives, and who want to discuss various fallback contingency plans with other like-minded people. It's not intended to provide advice/guidance for solving Y2000 problems within an IT organization.


-- (helpful@home.qwerty), June 06, 1999.


So long as "concerned" doesn't become "convinced" this forum is very helpful and informative. But make that one little change, and this becomes a place where the inhabitants spend all their time reinforcing one anothers' fears. And that kills forums.

-- Flint (, June 06, 1999.

Just my pennys worth...

I think the moderators should just say what they will do and wont do then let er rip.

Personally Ive been really bothered by the news that OutingsR has posted about the folks on the biff and debunk sites. Why would they want to diffuse or trash this forum? Whats it to them anyway?

When Ed was known to be moderating, they were being different.

Now that things have changed there has been a resulting increase in trolling action thats quite noticeable. They (and maybe some of us?) are being like little kids who test the boundaries in school, and have as a group decided to use spray paint and trash the Forum. OutingsR (not me) has amply shown that to be so.

If you have a bunch of neighbors with the avowed intention of spraying graffiti on your neighborhood walls... what would you do? I think the moderators must be having a hard time figuring out whats appropriate given their (the troll types) stated intent.

My vote would be to say anything goes but lets talk about Y2K, preparations, news, thoughts, ideas, community Y2K organization pointers, the international situation, the local situation, our neighborhoods and what theyre doing or not doing for Y2K, the government situation from all sides, helping the newcomers with pointers to preparation material, and letting them decide what is important and share how each of us is preparing (or not as the case may be), and... and... and.

Cant believe Im saying this but... Flint and Mr. Decker seem to be decent role models for arguing the Y2K is a bump (sorta)... dont worry... they will fix it. Or not. Seems like all sides, uncensored, should be welcome.

Gotta add that whoever the creep(s) is (are)who steel anothers name should be flogged and sent to their rooms. (Its happened to me before and I dont like it!). I keep reading all over the threads how people say all the bad language is pushing people away from the forum and then others say no, no anything goes. I for one could do without the flaming sexual comments from some of the unknown participants who like to use their hidden status to makes those over the edge comments. Id vote those things be delete post-haste, or pretty quickly, anyway.

Just MHO.

Diane, still a 5 and hopeful that Silicon Valleys gonna start taking this more seriously. Or not.

(Nice try Anita and MN but no bubble gum)

-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.


1) The infinitive verb ending in 'e' is usually changed to the gerund by dropping the 'e'. So you get causing, rather than causeing. And arguing, rather than argueing.

2) Do you mean the Diane who writes: "I'm a middle-of-the-roader, I expect a 5. Ray's personal attacks are substantive. Poole's analyses of the issues are not. But I'm neutral." *That* Diane?

If I stop posting, you know what's happened.

-- Flint (, June 06, 1999.

Mutha, you said --

"I would consider the legality of sueing you for libel. You may have damaged her credibility by causeing others to confuse her with me, and discount what she has to say. . ."

Are you a lawyer, Mutha? Cause if you're not, you'd better post a disclaimer. You don't want to get sued for practicing law without a license, do ya?

I am not a lawyer, do not play one anywhere, and the above is not meant to be taken as legal advice.

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), June 06, 1999.

Diane commented:

"Gotta add that whoever the creep(s) is (are)who steel anothers name should be flogged and sent to their rooms. (Its happened to me before and I dont like it!). I"

Agree 100% Diane, there can be NO EXCUSE for this activity. The forum moderators should at the least delete all posts of this nature.


-- Ray (, June 06, 1999.

I shall do my best, to do my duty! Just let us know what the scoop will be. Can I say poo-poo, doo-doo? Just wondering. If you crack down too hard on the language....I may not be able to discuss our fine commander in chief....just a thought!

-- Will continue (, June 06, 1999.

It occured to me that some research would help everyone.

Any one else know of other kinds of statements?

BTW, I'n not agreeing with it but just trying to locate examples.



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-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.

I think Ray and Diane are quite right, *provided* there's a reliable way to recognize those who post as someone else. I don't like having to say "that wasn't me", nor do I like having to keep insisting that I post only as myself and have no reason not to.

-- Flint (, June 06, 1999.

Gosh Flint... I actually sorta complimented you. (Shoulda had my morning latte instead!)

LOL... Will continue ( yes hes a real jerk and thats as far as Ill go with that comment. My question is... WHO TO VOTE FOR IN THE 2000 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS.

Nada. Zip. No one with guts in Wash-ing-ton. (town?)


-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.

Quick look over at Rick Cowles Electric Utilities and Y2K site... a.tcl?topic=Electric%20Utilities%20and%20Y2K

In the ASK A QUESTION thingy....

Please note than any postings not topical to the subject of electric utilities and the Y2k issue will be removed from the forum. Also, advertising of any type will be removed. For more information on appropriateness of postings, please refer to the forum FAQ. Prior to posting your question, you may wish to use the forum's search engine to conduct a key word search to see if your question has been asked already.

Search engine!!!


In his ABOUT stuff...

About the Electric Utilities and Y2K Forum

This forum was created for discussing the Year 2000 computer problem in the electric utility industry ONLY. To keep the clutter at a minimum, I ask the discussion remain focused on this topic.

Q: So, what are we discussing here?

A: Only discussions relevant to the topic of Electric Utilities and Year 2000 will be maintained in this forum. All others will be deleted.

Q: Are there 'rules of the road' that need to be observed?

A: Play nice. Flaming other posters for their opinions is generally not considered good form, however, informed debate of opposing views is certainly encouraged. That's why the forum exists. I also ask, in deference to our wide audience who has varying degrees of tolerance for profanity, that you keep the discussion reasonably "clean".

Q: So, Rick, what's your view on some of the radical stuff posted here?

A: This forum in no way reflects my personal views of Y2K, the electric industry in general, or anything else relating to the general human condition. I won't be held liable for the accuracy or idiocy of anything posted here. Use,abuse, and interpret the information presented at your own risk. Caveat Emptor.

Q: I have a boat I want to get rid of before Y2k. The Evinrude's been giving me some trouble anyway. Can I hold a virtual garage sale here?

A: Advertising of any type is verbotten. If you have something to sell that would help folks get through Y2k, I recommend you consider posting it on a relevant USENET newsgroup (such as 2000, misc.industry.utilities.electric, or misc.survivalism). Best regards to all, and may Y2K be a non-event.

-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.


Pastor Chriss Y2K Forum Y2K%20Forum

Nothing in the Question area, but somethiing in the About place...

About the Y2K Forum Forum

This forum is provided for the discussion of Y2K and Y2K related issues. Pastor Chris reserves the right to edit threads.

You may see pic's and musings at the bottom of some pages that have nothing to do with the forum. These apparently are placed on the pages by the originating server that provides this forum to Pastor Chris. Pastor Chris does not endorse anything added to this forum by the originating server.

-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.


Millennium Salons Millennium%20Salons

In Answer...

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Welcome to the Millennium Salons forum.

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Enjoy yourself, be nice, and remember: The main topic here is what (and how) to do about this mess.

And, oh yes... The disclaimer. Neither myself or anyone else connected with the establishment of the Millennium Salons will be repsonsible for any actions anyone takes as a result of reading anything on the site or in the forum. All information here is strictly the views of the people providing it, and is presented on this site/forum for informational purposes only. The management of this forum also reserves the right to delete any posting or thread at any time, with or without explanation.

Bill Dale - June 5, 1998

-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.

if a post contains one or two bad words but is otherwise readable english, moderators should remove the offending word(s) and put in brackets in its place, [expletive deleted by moderators].

-- jocelyne slough (, June 06, 1999.

Explicatives (by themselves) are valuable relief valves in a "hot" conversation between two (or more) spirited adults, and so aren't (by themselves) a problem. In and by themselves, sprinkled in between other words than maintain a thought, they are not a problem. (Of course, they also show the level of maturity of the person writing them, but that needs to be taken into account too.)

It's only when they become violent, obscene and involve principle body parts of other members that they need be trimmed.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (, June 06, 1999.

A couple of questions for the new Nazi's....errr...moderators....

Can I say Hell?

Damn? How about if I spell it Dam?





Motherfucker? Oops! My guess would be that this one isn't allowed. Sorry.

How about the phrase "Fuck you you Nazi pigs. This forum has always been a place for a free exchange of ideas and opinions. "Moderating" to the extent that you morons are doing is obviously not what Ed had in mind for this forum. See what a little power has done to you"?

Maybe we should all be required to submit our posts in advance, so our crack(head) group of censors can approve it before anyone has to use their own minds for analysis.

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), June 06, 1999.

Bob, you are an asshole for using those words.

-- Bill (bill@bill.bill), June 06, 1999.

Let's see,

What about "you are acting like a gum chewing spit wadding five-year- old," Bobby.

Grow up kidlet!


-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.

I've not really even noticed a post wherein someone used profane language on this forum...of course I don't read the Milne stuff anymore because I get those awful E-mails if I respond to A's posts.

What I've seen of the moderators, however, indicates that they've chosen those that post on other fora...specifically the ones I mentioned above. I've not seen Maria ever use foul language on this forum. Actually, I've never seen Maria use foul language on any other forum either. Yet she was singled out simply because her views are more mainstream. I've not seen Cherri(sp?) use any profane language either. Yet she was singled out as being Mutha or someone else. IMHO, this censorship is NOT about profanity. This censorship is not about trolls. Both Maria and Cherri(sp?)...sorry, I forgot how to spell your name...have posted in a positive vein regarding Y2k. I believe it's for THAT reason that they're being lumped into folks who don't belong on this forum.

NEITHER of these posters have said not to prepare for Y2k. They've simply presented Y2k from a perspective that seems not to be acceptable on this forum. *I* have also, as has Flint, and I agree with you, Flint...Ray can attack all he wants and nobody says a word.

If you want a forum dedicated to the worst possible scenarios that could possibly come out of Y2k, why don't you just spell it out? If you want to expel, edit, delete anyone who does not agree with your opinions in this area, why don't you just spell that out also? Why are you hiding behind a profanity issue that rarely exists here?


-- Anita Spooner (, June 06, 1999.


I used to marvel at Rick's forum's decorum. Until I complained that a particular thread's summary was so vague as to render the entire presumption of a summary line useless. You guessed it... Rick deleted my post as an OFF TOPIC flame. Suddenly, I realized why Rick's forum is always so spot on target... Rick keeps it that way by continuous and carefull hard work. Of course I was not overly happy with the deletion of my post. But for my money, the extra focus that Rick enforces on his forum is well worth my temporary discomfort. Here's hoping our new moderators have the same time and take the same care with this forum.

BTW, please do not presume I am complaining about how EY ran the forum. I think EY is a super intellect and an American hero. I just hope the new folks have more time and the will to take names and kick a**.

-- Uhm... (, June 06, 1999.


Bonnie Camp also has control of the delete button on Rick's forum.


-- Anita Spooner (, June 06, 1999.

See also... Hardliner...


-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.


Don't you post over at the biff and debunk sites?


-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.

TECH 32 makes a highly valid point which should not be taken lightly. If you are going to censor posts, it should be stated so in inch high letters at the top of the forum. That way people could decide for themselves whether or not this is an "open" forum. I personally have seen much more vulgar stuff on the web. And if Milne were censored, we would lose brilliance itself.

-- Gia (, June 06, 1999.


"And if Milne were censored, we would lose brilliance itself."

Wiping tears from my eyes. Now that's funny!


(Maybe I should ask Mutha to teach me how to do HTML color? Now that could be even funnier, eh?)

-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.


Yes. My first post to debunkers was the one I mentioned in another thread, entitled "Swamp vs. Swamp." I was basically asked to leave the forum over it. I have posted others on debunker in response to Yar and his concerns over May 5, 2000 and the alignment of the planets, as well as other astronomical concerns. Oh...I made yet another response to Robin regarding whether Ed Yourdon's articles were still available on that site.

On BFI, I posted one response to Y2kDave. It's included in the 3 messages beneath his post on "Why Am I concerned?"

You can check them out yourself. I never ONCE flamed nor degraded ANY poster on this board....nor did I ever use language inappropriate for family viewing.

Any more questions? Oops...that reminds me...I DID respond to a few other threads that Lisa or the perpetual spammer initiated on debunker. It seems that Lisa didn't think I was REAL because she was unable to push my buttons.


-- Anita Spooner (, June 06, 1999.


Please stay!!

(If I could do that in color, I would).

Some of the regular's still chuckle when they remember me taking on a "fake" Paul Milne. I laugh too.

Now he's "colorful."


-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.

Well, my oh my! Everyone thought Invar just hung the moon up in heaven, and yet he was one of the most profane and filthy posters on this forum. Did I mind his profanity. Hell no! Because I think censorship stinks. It's Orwell's "l984" right her in l999. But it sounds a little two-faced to me to continually hear regulars saying, "be nice, don't swear, don't say this and don't say that," when some of their favorite posters had gutter mouths and were as mean as mad dogs to boot.

But the most absolutely boring people I've ever met wouldn't say "shit" if they were choking on it. They are sooo nice, soooo correct, soooo careful, sooooooo boring!

I've said before I don't believe in censorship, because it never ends. Fortunately I write for a paper that allows me to say what I please, even though they, and I, have received flak for it. I hardly ever swore on this forum, except for hell and damn, ( oh my, not nice) but I swear in my personal life, if I want to, but not just to be vulgar, and so do many other well educated, intelligent people.

I was on the great DOOM GOD of Y2K' s forum--Saint Gary North-- and one would be cut off with a big, bold type, warning if a dirty word was written. I was once trying to explain a procedure to "suck" air out of bags if a person couldn't afford a Vacuum Sealer and I got cut off. Another fellow got cut off when trying to discuss inertia in regard to pumping water and said "suck." He was also cut off. I was so mad I came back and wrote the nastiest post you've ever read, and never used a profane, vulgar, "not nice" word.

This is the real world folks. Not everything is always going to be nice. Moderated forums are about as interesting as vacuuming and dusting. And besides, some of those "nice," socially correct folks can be the most condescending bastards on this forum. Oh pardon me, I should have said, illegitimate spawn, or ilk.

All moderators inject their personal prejudices into their judgments. I'm sure anyone would. The point is if you don't like it, don't read it. That's what the back button is for. Maybe you could rename this forum Time Bomb Romper Room, just for "nice" people only.

Concerning censorship: "They began by burning books, and ended by burning people." Read "Fahrenheit 451" lately? Oh, and by the way, asked me about books that have been on the banned list? The Bible heads the list. Gasp! Or check out "Censorship in the U. S. from the Reference Shelf, over fifty volumes on this dainty subject about what's "naughty and nice."

Diversity is what life is about, not clones.

-- gilda (, June 06, 1999.

Diane- That's it! Your're off my Christmas gift list! That's right, no Aqua Pure for you. Laugh at me will you...

-- Gia (, June 06, 1999.

I'm with patrick henry and Gilda on this one.

Let's be adults here.

no censorship please - you KNOW that is the right thing to do.

Yes get rid of the Jerry Chittum-type stuff - that's a no-brainer, but NO FURTHER THAN THAT please!

-- Andy (, June 06, 1999.

Oh sure Andy!

That's easy for you to say!

You don't like me, so delete me! Is that how it is, Andy?


-- JJJJJJ (Jerry@Chittum.comunistic), June 06, 1999.

Wasn't INVAR's last Jimmy Bagga saga one of the few posts ever deleted by Ed Y.? For what it's worth, I agree that that one was a no-brainer. However, I had no issue with INVAR's use of profanity otherwise, nor do I think it appropriate to delete a post simply for use of profanity. I am hopeful the new moderators will use the same "light hand" that Ed had the wisdom to exercise.

-- RUOK (, June 06, 1999.


I wasn't laughing AT you. It was the comment about Milne. Priceless... it's a "keeper."



-- Diane J. Squire (, June 06, 1999.

Repeat from the thread referenced above:

Folks, WHOOEE! I go out for a weekend of fast cars, married women, and slow beer and what happens??? first, there are a pair of folks with the keys to the "Delete" button.

Second, there are about a dozen of us who are franticaly kicking around where the forum will end up. we have some idea, but not a real consensus on the actual ending configuration nor the transition path to it. We ARE close to consensus on both.

third EY DOES lurk here and HAS asked for certain thread deletions, which have been made.

Fourth, the person to whom the baton was passed chooses anonymity at this time. The heat in a few of the threads I have read so far would tend to render that decision as wise.

Please be patient with us. the transition has not been flawless. unfortunately, with a live, variable entity, and some folks who publicly espouse a wish to bring said entity to its knees, things are going to be a bit rough at first. Unfortunately, this didn't come with training wheels.

We have taken the option of discussions in relative private because, as I believe it was Mark Twain (often quoted by Ev Dirksen) who said: "Lovers of both sausage and The Law should not look too closely at the making of either." this quote obtains to our efforts here on the forum.

Give us some time, please.

And NO I DO NOT believe that patience are only for doctors.


-- Chuck, a night driver (, June 06, 1999.


says this forum is self destructing (humor)

-- what (areyou@afraid.of?), June 07, 1999.

Mutha, the post containing personal information was NOT posted by OutingsR, it was posted by an imposter, as the moderator pointed out. You would do well not to repeat the falsehood. OutingsR has, in fact, deleted personal information in quotes from individuals. The person who posed as OutingsR has failed in his/her slimy, deceitful attempt to discredit the character.

So you have to ask: why would someone go to such lengths, giving the impression that OutingsR would stoop so low as to publish someone's personal info? The only answer is that OutingsR was right on target about the Polly Follies plot to take over Timebomb 2000.

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), June 07, 1999.

Take note of Mutha's style. She never contributes to the dialog on Y2k. Instead she continually looks for ways to find fault.

-- (prose@style.mod), June 07, 1999.

the polly's must be loving this.some feces eater says that they'll bring down the time bomb2000 forum and we beat them to it with self- destruction.we need to get over ourselves,and our rightiousness.sheesh.were the trolls that hard to deal with?did they cause this much controvercy?

-- zoobie (, June 07, 1999.

The "COBOL system termination dates of 12-31-99..." thread is interesting.

-- ytpmudytpmuh kcuf (, June 07, 1999.

I have found that Mutha and others have contributed considerably (Flint, Mr. Decker, Mr. Poole, hoffmeister, ect.). They all make us think about why we believe this way. Mutha just seems to be more condecending with her "put up or shut up routine". Read this thread:

entitled "what is a y2k expert?" The questions she posed gave me pause to think.

It does not speak well of this forum in general if they must now censor posts to defend the beliefsystem of a few. Or even of many; I agree that censorship of anything but that which is vile and disgusting should not occur.

-- L T L (NOYB@Tthis.time), June 07, 1999.

What's been censored so far? I don't like censorship but I haven't seen any here yet.

-- (new@not.saying), June 07, 1999.

(1) Be VERY glad that I am not doing the censoring...

(2) Since we may have minor children (or even major children) visiting the discussion, we should refrain from profanity and unnecessary sexual commentary. Profanity adds nothing to the discussion, anyway. The same information can be stated, without profanity.

(3) Personal attacks are usually totally unnecessary. We can achieve far more by discussing situations, fallback positions, contingency plans, recipes, and what will and will not work than in personal attacks. Personal attacks seem to indicate an inability to counter the position stated by the individual attacked. Therefore, I consider a personal attack as a verification of the veracity of the original position! If you are attacking, I'm sure that you don't want to reinforce their position...

-- Mad Monk (, June 07, 1999.

Mad Monk:

I agree completely. Personal attacks are gratifying confirmations that your statements cannot be refuted.

-- Flint (, June 07, 1999.

I think I really understand now why Ed Yourdon dropped out of the Y2K arena. If people would only spend this much time and effort talking-- on either side of the issue--about Y2K itself...

-- Linkmeister (, June 08, 1999.

Linkmeister = Kevin = very nasty body-part poster

Please add to the discussion or leave

You have been warned.

-- Quiet (Observer@watching.him), June 08, 1999.

Yep. I do understand Ed's frustration...

-- Linkmeister (, June 08, 1999.

Rember you manners and use your own handle

A gentle reminder, Kev! ;)

-- Time Bomb 2000 Sysop (, June 08, 1999.

Remember your manners and use your own handle.

A gentle reminder, Kev! ;)

-- Time Bomb 2000 Sysop (, June 08, 1999.

YEP, some errors were made. this much has been admitted, at least privately. i can't speak to them, as i was out doing something that keeps me sane (95 degree heat, 90% humidity, chasing flaming Can-Am cars and flying F2000's and the occasionally cartwheeling Trans-Am cars. It was a GREAT weekend!). I am sure that, if you go back over th elast year and a half or more that is the life of this forum, you will find other errors have been made.

I wonder if any of the current crop of folks who are screaming the loudest right now ever made an error. I also wonder if any of you have ever learned anything from errors, as adults. One of the hallmarks of thinking adulthood is the ability to learn from at least ONE'S OWN, if not from other people's mistakes.

Having made your collective points (on BOTH SIDES f'gawd'sakes), why don't you back off, just a little bit, and see if the people involved are adults? Always assuming that you are capable of either the ability to let go, or the ability to discern when change occurs. It does NO PRUPOSE to continue hitting the carcass of the dead sacharine beast of burden (are YOU a TURTLE?) after the point has been made.

Show some of the maturity you are asking of us, recognize that the point has been made AND TAKEN TO HEART, and back off.

I GUARANTEE that should there be anything egregious in the future, the people involved will hear about it from the invited team, much more and more to the point than continuing this.

I will repeat the request. Please give us a bit of time. This forum did not evlove to where it is in a week or two. As I said earlier, we ARE working on it, and it will take a bit of time (and 10 days is NOT considered 'a bit of time'!!!).

Chuck, a night driver, who has been seen and heard to walk around muttering "hyena's" a lot lately

-- Chuck, a night driver (, June 08, 1999.

Mutha & LTL: I posted ONE time on deBuggery on its first day. In fact, the post was:

"Congratulations on your new site. Looks good. Maybe this will help level the playing field"

I was not aware that they displayed IPs. I have not posted since, and would not have posted then, had I known my anonymity was not assured. So, the difference is, posting my IP on this forum was a direct attempt to publish my personal info. In Outings posts, he quoted regular posters who knew and consented to the display of their IP. And in stark contrast, he did not post the info to display their IP, but for the content.

As for the profanity, like the saying goes "You know it when you see it". An occasional "dumbass" or even three or four "assholes" is not generally a problem with most folks. However, if you like, I will simply search and replace Milne's use of derogatives in my cross posts. Is "butthead" permissible to you or would you like it removed also?

-- a (a@a.a), June 08, 1999.

If you are looking for a replacement for asshole, try "a" or "a@a.a". I can think of nothing more appropriate!

-- Do You See (, June 08, 1999.

Actually, I was leaning towards

asshole=typical pollyanna


-- a (a@a.a), June 08, 1999.

MR. a@a.a~

you should have looked before you leaped. 22806557&P=No&TL=922806557

{snip}Remember, once you submit your post, there is no going back. Should be interesting. Also note all posts include your IP address. Helps keep the trolls in order while allowing one to still be Mr.X etc. One can still post without a name or email, just we will be able to at least put posts together for anyone so interested.

The board is NOT moderated. You post, and up it goes. {end}


Mutha Fan (you go git 'em, gerl-fren!)

-- Inviso troll (completely@nona.mouse), June 08, 1999.


See both answers, same place.



-- Chuck, a night driver (, June 08, 1999.

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