OK, you prep types, I have a hypothetical for you.

Suppose we have someone who is on a medication that is not easily manufactured; it requires an expensive, high-tech process. This person MUST have this medication to live. Without it, they will die.

This medication is volatile, and will not stay potent for more than a couple of months under the BEST conditions. Therefore, stocking a large supply of this medication isn't the answer.

What does this person do?

-- Stephen M. Poole, CET (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), June 02, 1999

Answers

Forget it, Poole, you are nowhere close to Decker's cleverness. He would have started out with some crap about what he had seen in his military days, with some heart rendering TRUE STORY or something, possibly relating what his grandfather would have done. Then he would have fabricated some more BS about how in time of war the most important lesson that we must learn is that, alas, we simply can never prepare. And therefore, if Y2K is in fact a sort of war (if not a baseball game??!!??), why do we need to even kid ourselves that our preparations can possibly do any good but give us false confidence yak-yak-blah-blah-fart-fart.

See, thats the way you do it, Junior. If you want to grow up to be a big, strong troll like the old man.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), June 02, 1999.

It depends on the medication. Insulin, for instance, needs to be refrigerated. The patient would do well to have an alternative emans of refrigeration, a subject which has been discussed on this forum and on the Home Energy forum at the North site.

Most tablets or capsules are good for anywhere up to four years after purchase. What specific medication did you have in mind?

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), June 02, 1999.

Stevie,

Patient you describe shouldn't worry about y2k. Close to home story maybe? Hope not.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), June 02, 1999.

Pray.

If Y2K is more than a BITR, die.

Of course you are setting up another stupid straw man, but what the heck. I've long ago abandoned expecting much integrity from you.

People die by the hundreds every single day from not getting needed medications, this is new?!? Sometimes it is because of lack of purchasing power. Sometimes it is a lack of availability. Sometimes it is because the wrong medications were prescribed. Sometimes it is because an agency like the FDA or the FDA itself forbids the importation of the medicine (this happens more than you think) into the USA.

We know you certainly don't appear to want to remedy any future problems of this nature. Are you doing anything to correct the above problems that exist today?

Wake up.

Grow up.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 02, 1999.

King of Spain,

What a GREAT answer. I loved it. I needed a chuckle this time of night and you posted a super reply. Thanks.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), June 02, 1999.

I'm appalled by the responses of "so-called" GI's. You guys are as bad as the trolls. Perhaps you're a troll in disquise. I question your motives for posting. On other threads people like you are often "plants" to undermine credibility of those who are seriously concerned.

Though Poole might have been baiting people. He actually raised a legitimate concern that many have.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), June 03, 1999.

Stephen,

for you, this may be a hypothetical situation, for others it is not. This does happen every day somewhere around the world. It will just happen to more people if Y2K is more than a bump in the road.

Have you ever been in a neo-natal unit? Have you ever seen the number of machines, and/or the number of drugs those little ones depend on to survive? How about a nursing home, an ICU or CCU?

If it seemed hopeless, would I give up? NO. If it were me or mine, I would be researching everything I could find on the medicine. I would be looking for an alternative, be it another medication or herbs. And I would be down on my knees, praying.

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), June 03, 1999.

Cheryl,

Poole's "legitimate concern" as expressed isn't a y2k issue. Patients at grave risk are so regardless. His scenario invites skepticism.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), June 03, 1999.

If it were me, I'd find out NOW what non medication alternatives, if any, were available and discuss it with my physician, ask about trying any new regimens while there medical supervision and the medication were still available. If nothing like that possible, I'd try to get at least a few months worth with plans for an alternative energy source to help with storage. I would try to get some detailed info from the pharmacist I'd dealt with locally and ask about the actual shelf life of the meds, not the expiration date and what would happen if I decided to take the medication anyway,i.e., does it break down into some toxic metabolite or something, that would poison me or would it just be ineffective and I might get nauseated or break out in a rash or whatever ... If all info seemed to be to the negative, I'd prepare anyway and hope for the best!

-- Barb (awaltrip@telepath.com), June 03, 1999.

Steven

As valid as your question is, the market forces have been placed in regards to meds. Like it or not. And below a quote to the senate from a lady with the situation you discribe. Ms. West has agreed with the plan that is underway as discribed in the Koshinen link below

Koskinen meets w/Pharm. industry - meeting minutes 3/8/99

http://www.rx2000.org/data/testimony.htm Ms. Laurene West's testimony to the Senate Year 2000 Technology Committee October 7, 1998 Hearing Washington, D.C. Standing here before you this morning I probably appear to be in good health. I am not. Without daily medication and a coordinated effort from the health care community, I will be a casualty of the Year 2000 ? I will die. I had a tumor removed from the center of my brain and now I require daily medication to prevent re-growth. Additionally, when I had the first of 13 surgeries on my head, I acquired a staph infection which does not respond to any known oral antibiotic. I am dependent on IV antibiotics which I can not stockpile as they expire in less than 30 days. A disruption to the supply of IV antibiotics will kill me. I am a Registered Nurse ? for more than 20 years I have worked in Critical Care areas of the hospital. Concurrently for the past 14 years, I have worked to develop and implement medical information systems. For the past two years I have worked with various health care organizations to help them prepare for the Year 2000 crisis.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 03, 1999.

Will I ever learn. I am going to try the quote again

http:// www.rx2000.org/data/testimony.htm

Ms. Laurene West's testimony to the Senate Year 2000
Technology Committee
October 7, 1998 Hearing
Washington, D.C.

Standing here before you this morning I probably appear to be in good
health. I am not. Without daily medication and a coordinated effort from the
health care community, I will be a casualty of the Year 2000 ? I will die.

I had a tumor removed from the center of my brain and now I require daily
medication to prevent re-growth. Additionally, when I had the first of 13
surgeries on my head, I acquired a staph infection which does not respond to
any known oral antibiotic. I am dependent on IV antibiotics which I can not
stockpile as they expire in less than 30 days. A disruption to the supply of
IV antibiotics will kill me.

I am a Registered Nurse ? for more than 20 years I have worked in Critical
Care areas of the hospital. Concurrently for the past 14 years, I have worked
to develop and implement medical information systems. For the past two
years I have worked with various health care organizations to help them
prepare for the Year 2000 crisis.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 03, 1999.

Stephen, the hypothetical scenario that you addressed is the same type of scenario that led me to the conclusion that things could get real bad for many people for many different reasons. There are countless people on this planet whose lives are dependant on external resources, like meds, to keep them alive. One slip off of the path and death could easily result. Back to your hypothetical: the person whose life is so intertwined with the use of a specific medication and/or his family members should vigorously research the medication in question; find out exactly what it does, how it does it, and whether or not the same results could be obtained from a different source. I'm no herbalist nor do I claim any great amount of knowledge in that area. I do know, however, that many pharmaceuticals are no more than synthetic clones of their herbal predecessors. The drug Digoxin, for example, is simply a synthetic form of the Digitalis plant. Companies like Merck and Pfizer can't patent a naturally occuring substance so they create a synthetic copy of the substance and voila! $$$$. Back to the 'patient': she should do everything possible to make sure that the needed medication is in good supply and then do everything she can to make sure that the drug is protected in a manner that will help to ensure its maximum shelf life. Some meds lose their effectiveness if exposed to light, air, or even motion. Their is a drug on the market that comes in liquid form and crystallizes if the contents are moved around too much.

---if one Advil relieves pain for 6 hours, then taking the whole bottle should cover me for a year, right?---

-- A.P. (grim2k@hotmail.com), June 03, 1999.

One option that seems to have been missed, is relocation to a city with a university based medical center, and hopefully, a Nuke plant inthe reasonable distance. DON'T FLAME! THINK!! Uninversity based medical centers are USUALLY part of universities with GREAT chem depts for syhthesis of LOTS of meds. The nearby Nuke plant will generate an Island of Power. this may be the ONLY way to survive.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), June 03, 1999.

Has anyone considered the possibility that all this calamity over needed drugs just AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN AT ALL? or minimally?

Don't call me emotionally detached. I have a mother dependent on meds. And a diabetic Dad 6 ft under.

I just don't think it's going to pan out in such a disastrous way, that's all. And I'm (at least) as smart, and aware, as any of you. Despite what Andy might say. (Has anyone changed his diapers lately?)

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), June 03, 1999.

Chicken Little, you do know of course you're at great risk for developing diabetes yourself? If that should happen, and I sincerely hope it doesn't, then I guarantee you your attitude about life--and this thread--will change. I too have a parent who is dependent upon medication (several). And since September, I'm dependent on medication too. I've been proudly independent for decades and it comes as quite a shock to find myself utterly at the mercy of a little white tablet. There's another med I take to protect kidneys from diabetes damage but its lack would not be fatal in a very short time, as it would with the little white one.

Even if Y2K were not an issue, after I found out how little stock pharmacies keep on hand, and after I found out my crucial tablet is made in France, I would have wanted to stock up anyway, for at least a month.

You say your mother is dependent on medication but until you yourself are fully dependent on a tablet, so much so that if it is not taken for even a short time, organ damage, coma and death will result, you have no grounds to speak so flippantly on this subject.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), June 03, 1999.

Chicken

One can hope for alot of things. They may happen or not. Unfortunately Meds are a problem that will NEED disipline by all involved. They can't ramp up to make "more", JIT hits agian. This is not doomer, its relatively common knowledge. There will be no excessive stockpiling for anyone. For us Canadians it is a particular problem as we get meds from the US. If the US gets sick we will feel it.

Good luck

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 03, 1999.

Law of the Jungle: The weak and infirm are the first to go. Sorry.

(FWIW - I been rendered disabled for the last three years because of incompetent medical care so I hafta' face the possibility of my own demise within the next year. It's not pretty, but it's the reality I face. Because of this, I have a greater appreciation for the little things others may take for granted. There are lessons here for all of us....)

LunaC

-- LunaC (LunaC@moon.com), June 03, 1999.

You answered your own question cess pool.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), June 03, 1999.

I am preparing. Last November I had a kidney transplant (thanks to the contribution of my brother). I take several meds. One med will be hard to get. It is rare (for some transplants), has a short shelf life, and comes from Scandinavia.

Because of slight differences of records between my HMO and the hospital kidney clinic, I am able to increase my "stockpile". Every time I get more meds, I rotate my supply. I have become aware of a company in New Jersey making a similar drug.

By the time December hits, I should have about a 3 month supply. I will try to get my HMO to give me a larger supply. As we get closer to the rollover, I will assess the situation. Personally, I would have no problem flying to Mexico or Europe with some gold coins in my pocket to purchase additional supply.

I know what is at stake. I will do what is necessary to keep myself whole. Its that survival thing.

Good question.

-- David Holladay (davidh@brailleplanet.org), June 03, 1999.

Another post and run by Poole.

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), June 03, 1999.

The best they can.

-- Kristi (securx@Succeed.Net), June 03, 1999.

They do what we will all someday do. They die.

Corrine

-- corrine l (corrine@iwaynet.net), June 03, 1999.

SMP - Is your hypothetical drug manufactured in the U.S.? If so, if things get bad and your hypothetical patient runs out of meds, maybe the hypothetical family will remember this come election time - Their loved one's death was caused in large part by the arrogance of TPTB in canonizing the JIT culture and refusing to address the Y2K problem in time. It could have been resolved if they had acted responsibly and in time.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), June 03, 1999.

So far I've seen only two replies that might be helpful, and they don't quite get there.

How about some input from some more people that are dependent on such meds that have investigated alternatives in acquisition, and availability of viable substitutes?

In some cases, herbs may be a viable substitute. Some of you have shown knowledge in herbology. Others are medical professionals, past and present.

Why not make a list of known medical conditions that demand Rx medications, such as hypertension? You can make it a team effort, and compile the list here, or do it off-line, and post it. Then you can start finding alternatives, if any.

The topic is a valid one. It would be to your benefit to remember that, just because you don't have to take Rx meds now, doesn't mean that you won't next year, or even next month. Even barring illness, serious accidents happen every day. I don't think I need to elaborate on that.

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), June 03, 1999.

I ordered some non hybrid herb seeds from a company and they just got here. Feverfew, natural anti-inflammatory(hence the name) and headache reliever. St. John's Wort, an antidepressant, and Valerian. I believe they are all three perennials so will have them in pots where we can harvest the leaves and use the roots. Got to do some more research. Anyway, we take alot of Ibuprofen for aches and pains being middleaged(39 and43) with two young children, daughter4 and son7. I hope to be able to have a ready supply of pain reliever!!!

-- Barb (awaltrip@telepath.com), June 03, 1999.

Get to know your local trained herbalists and aromatherapists, and self-educate on natural alternatives. (As a back-up plan).

Those who take control of their own healing, often fair better, in matters of the life threatening. It is well documented.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 03, 1999.

As it happens, I needed a prescription refill today and discussed this issue with the pharmacist. Apart from those meds requiring refrigeration, she could think of none that fit the description: ". . . volatile, and will not stay potent for more than a couple of months under the BEST conditions."

She explained there are some medications like Nitrostat, which come in tiny vials which ONCE OPENED have only a three-month life. The unopened vials, if kept relatively cool (i.e., not in your car parked in the sun or a pocket next to your warm skin), are good for one to two years. I asked would it help if an opened vial were stored with dessicants and oxygen absorbers in an airtight container, and she said yes, but it was an inexact science and she could say only that they wouldn't last as long as the sealed vials.

In addition, the pharmacist commented she was recommending that her patients have in reserve about three months of prescription medicines as a hedge against possible Y2K problems. When I mentioned the limitations of insurance companies, she said that she knew some had changed their policy recently to reflect a three-month (rather than a one-month) refill but couldn't remember offhand who they were.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), June 03, 1999.

Young Git,

Stocking Rx stuff while on a 30 day only plan can be done. Most insurance programs & HMOs will allow a refill after 21 days. Get your refill early and squirrel 9 days worth. It's June. Maybe six weeks worth is still possible. Ask your pharmacist.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), June 03, 1999.

with the doctors unwilling to write scripts,and the short shelf life of pharmaceuticles,if there are supply problems;death is the option we're being offered...thank you pollyana-america

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 04, 1999.