Ed is leaving. Your fearless leader. Could some of the people who respond to others on this forium be part of the reason? When someone with apposing views is called a child molester? When every other post is answered with a stupid comment and a BBrrrrhaaaahhaaaa? When the poster is greated with remarks about their personal life and degraded just because they are not considered a GI? When evidence of some one thing going ok is recieved and replied to as "they" are lieing? When people talk about killing their neighbors if they want food? When extremests and bigots are applauded because they agree with the overall concept of preparing?

He isn't leaving because of the pollys, he can handle that, but perhaps he wishes to dissasociate with the extremists. And YES he see's it is going better and things will not be as bad as thought a year ago, but this forium has not grown along with the reality of that. After all, he did testify before congress and express what he honestly felt to be the situation. It is too bad people here have not learned what Ed did, that it has gotten better and grown along with him. This must be difficult for him to see what kind of mentality controlls this forium (not all, just the extreme few who seemed to have ruined it) Can you immagine how he felt when people (perhaps in congress) visited here and read some of the crap the rest of you seem to accept?

Welll if you do not know what I am talking about I will copy some of the more "enlightened" post following this one.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), May 29, 1999

Answers

You won't actually have to copy anything more, just wait for the tide to roll in...

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), May 29, 1999.

Hi Cherri, Ed probably got tired of waiting for that Polly essay you promised Cory Hammasaki weeks ago for his WRP Report.

Do you feel any commitment to your PROMISE?

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), May 29, 1999.

Cherri, you are completely wrong withy our assessment. For culprits, try looking at those posters from Der Boonkah and BFI, they're originally from those boards but they post here. The disruptions and invective from those people, including yourself, has been extremely wearing. Now I hear that (probably those same) people have been flaming Ed via his private e-mail. You all should be ashamed of yourselves, but of course you won't be--you don't have complete personalities and conscience is certainly missing.

Everyone else, please go and have a look at that deplorable Debunking forum and see what kind of poison and vitriol Ed's been getting in his mailbox.

http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb237006

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 29, 1999.

Cherri

I don't know why you bother posting. Certianly not to impress people with your command of the English language. If you could convey a line of thought that would help.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 29, 1999.

Cherri, Cherri, Cherri,

Ed left for exactly the reasons he explained. Debate, to him, is now a waste of TIME. Worse, debate delays decision. It took a few minutes but I'm now grateful to get my ass kicked into gear. Hope getting in the way of reason and all that.

Don't worry. Someone will pick up the flag and you'll have a fresh target.

As for the open ended nature of this forum: If you prefer discourse without passion you're in the wrong arena.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), May 29, 1999.

I doubt this board was much of a contributing factor for Ed. But the 'contributions' from Cherri and Old Git are both excellent illustrations of what Ed was talking about, in reference to this forum.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 29, 1999.

Cherri,

What is your problem? As far as I can remember we still do have freedom of speech in this country, and if you don't like the comments that people make on this forum, you are welcome to leave anytime you wish. I don't think Ed will have any problem with THAT!

-- @ (@@@.@), May 29, 1999.

Ed Yourdon is a very kind, caring, genuine individual. I can't thank him enough for all of the time and effort he has invested in raising awareness about Y2K. Ed, I have a huge lump in my throat. Thanks for everything.

Cherri, I have been on this forum for almost a year now, and have never resorted to name calling. Until now. You are a JERK!

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), May 29, 1999.

I think it's pretty obvious that Ed's actions and those of many others on this and other Y2K forums resemble those of the Titanic's captain when he said to the crew: "Every man has done his duty, now it's time to save yourselves."

In one respect, for well-known posters on the forums, (Invar, Uncle Deedah come to mind) it's time to submerge to periscope depth and watch the situation unfold. I give myself maybe until the end of July before I'll go that route.

For really high-visibility individuals like Ed, Paul Milne, Gary North, maybe even Cory Hamasaki, it could be time to do more and go to silent running and rig for depth charge attack. Remember that there have been "kill the messenger" tactics mentioned in countering public Y2K fears. In this case, it would be the people who are responsible for "instigating" Y2K paranoia (We call it "awareness.") by running Y2K forums and web sites.

Or maybe Ed is re-evaluating his preprations and feels he needs to devote more time to even greater preparation. The last six months of the count-down do leave a lot more to be done by many of us.Either reason or any other, it's good enough for Ed to take his leave.

I for one thank him for all he's done to educate those of us who came to this site early enough in the process to make a substantial difference in our efforts. Ed, good luck. May God bless you and your family and allow you to come through the worst of whatever may come.

We'll see you on the other side, either at the "I got fooled by Y2K" festival or at the Continental Congess of 2004. If it's the festival i'll be waiting my turn on the seat at the dunking booth.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), May 29, 1999.

Cherri -- I can tell you from personal knowledge that you are quite wrong.

First, with Ed what you see is what you get. Take his post at face value. Second, he is a "GI's GI", in fact. He is a heck of a lot more profoundly disturbed by the way DGIs handle this issue, including on the forum, but EVEN MORE, around the nation, than he is by the "GI regulars."

Wrong. Period.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), May 29, 1999.

WW --- ROFL! Can I go ahead of you at the dunking booth? Nothing would make me happier. Heck, Mutha, Poole and Decker can ALL have turns.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), May 29, 1999.

Ed has been (and is) a true leader: many people here think just as he does, he just said it first and has had the roughest ride. Hopefully even this change will be a spark to some still sitting on their hands.

How would you like to honestly prepare for a hearing and have 2 people show up and not covered? Not that I think Ed is "reacting". The truth sometimes is just inescapeable.

Its just EXACTLY what he said. He needs to finish other preperations.

So do I.

So do you.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), May 29, 1999.

Ed wrote this in his message about his leaving. (and I do not recall reading any polly using the language and flames (a few) of the GI's have used.

"More than just hardening of positions, though, I sense an increasing degree of confrontation and hostility between the two camps. It's reflected in flame wars on the Internet discussion groups"

and I REPEAT about posts like this;

"Y2kPro and Norm are ignorant fools and idiots! Both of them are child molesters!" http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000ngP

Posts like tis probably embarrassed Ed whit the possibility of Congresss looking into his forium. Or anyone reading this forium.

No it is not the Pollys that he wishes to dis-associate himself from, it is the people YOU allow and applaud when they post something like that post.

You call him your fearless leader, in real life the leader is in the end the one who is held responcible for those he leads. So your actions, bad or good have reflected on Ed.

Think about it.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), May 29, 1999.

<Posts like tis probably embarrassed Ed whit the possibility of Congresss looking into his forium. Or anyone reading this forium.>

Cherri - Maybe he's embarrassed about your punctuation and spelling?? You're too funny. I've been entertained with your chest thumping today.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), May 29, 1999.

Cheryl, I am always delighted when someone corrects my spelling (opps you did not do that) for I am always willing to learn. As for having a soft touch on my keyboard, weeel sure, I really should "proof-read" what I write, but I'm too busy watching A-Rods cute little butt and waiting for Edger to make another grand-slam. by the way, congratulations on the TrailBlazers making the playoffs.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), May 29, 1999.

<by the way, congratulations on the TrailBlazers making the playoffs.>

I have no idea who the TrailBlazers are. I moved to Oregon in January from Houston. Too busy with new home and preps. Used to own a national marketing research firm. Designed customized software for my company and my "ex"s. Was one of first female advertising executives in U.S., back in the early 80's managing high-tech accounts ... before the term "personal computers" was coined.

Went to NYC on my own dime in November '98 to meet with Technology Editor of Time Magazine (amongst other media) - trying to get word out to engineers and CEO's about embedded system problem ... all to no avail. Spent $12,000+ of my own money trying to build up awareness back then - targeted to those who actually fix the problem. Finally gave up. Decided to focus on taking care of myself and my family. Believe what you want, Cherri. Problem is far more complex than you believe. Your trying to twist Ed Yourdon's motivation to move on ... is silly. Makes you look very foolish.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), May 29, 1999.

Hey there, Cherri Nit-Picker:

Ed Yourdon is doing quite fine without your advice.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), May 29, 1999.

Abandon all hope folks. I found my way back here. And just when you thought that it was safe to get back into the water too.

>We'll see you on the other side, either at the "I got fooled by Y2K" festival or at the Continental Congess of 2004. If it's the festival i'll be waiting my turn on the seat at the dunking booth.<

Me too Weasel. And da*n glad to be in the line too.

check 6

S.O.B.(AKA The Village Idiot)

ps: RUMOR RUMOR RUMOR!!!

I have heard, in a part of my recent travels, that an increased level of "Awareness Information" will be in evidence throughout the land in mid June. A "big" increase in information. July is looking worse though.

I repeat THIS IS JUST A RUMOR FOR NOW.

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (bufgun@hotmail.com), May 30, 1999.

Cherri,

Ed and his words state his position exactly.

Let him speak for himself.

You speak for yourself... and NO one else.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 30, 1999.

Um....Diane....before you go saying that Cherri speaks for "no one else", perhaps you should conduct an informal poll.

It's funny how when anyone, be it someone from government, the press, business, or wherever, says anything that might disagree with the Doomer position, that the Doomer people think they should enjoy total freedom to 'read between the lines', extrapolate motives, etc. etc. etc.; i.e. expound upon things that weren't explicitly stated by the persons in question. Cast aspersions, raise doubts, whatever. Anything but take the statement at face value.

But now the Ed fans demand that those of us who don't share their views should do exactly what they refuse to do; i.e. you demand that we should take Ed's parting statement totally at face value, without any further thought or discussion on the matter. As if Ed can't possibly be thinking anything beyond what he wrote in his statement, as if there aren't any further issues involved here.

I'm not going to question the truthfulness of what Ed wrote in his statement. (That would invite nothing but a further flame contest.) But neither am I going to think that he told the whole story, either, just because Ed fans would have us believe that.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 30, 1999.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not going to question the truthfulness of what Ed wrote in his statement. (That would invite nothing but a further flame contest.) But neither am I going to think that he told the whole story, either, just because Ed fans would have us believe that.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 30, 1999.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

More than likely true and more than likely Ed Yourdon's choice in the matter eh? Chicken you have at least a degree of civility. If a man puts his family before identity then he has his priorities right. Specially in times of uncertianty. This is fair.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 30, 1999.

Cherri, (what a cute name)I'm so sorry for you hon. If I had an extra lifejacket, I'm sure I could find someone else to wear it. Wildweasel has the answer folks. He's hit the nail on the head! I've been luking around this forum (on a daily basis) for nearly a year now. It's *JUNE 1999* and it's time to put up or shut up. It's taken me one full year....lot's of sweat....every dollar I could get my hands on and there are still SO many bases I haven't been able to cover. There will be panic. Get over it. Let's get back on track here.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), May 30, 1999.

Will,

Not to argue; but I'm gonna argue.

WildWeasel's Titanic analogy doesn't even begin to flush.

The captain of a sinking ship stays until the bitter end. He doesn't bail out 7 months before the fact.

It's indeed curious that Ed decided to take up knitting right after his Senate testimony. Don't you think he had some conversations with the "powers that be" after his public talk? Or do you think he just said his piece, then immediately hoofed it to a cab to his Dulles jet back home? I just don't think so. Things in Washington don't work that way.

There was a high-level talk between Mr. Ed and Somebody, and shortly afterwards, Mr. Ed yanks his Y2k doom-fear content ... and you don't think so? Think again. As in, wake up. Smell the coffee. Have a cup.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 30, 1999.

yada, yada, yada. Who cares? The whole country has been stifled by "higher ups" when it comes to y2k. It seems to me, that was just ONE of his many points! Notice, I don't want to post with my real e-mail address....sheeeees, get a clue. Even IF you were correct, it doesn't change the date my friend *JUNE 1999*. Give it up and go bag some rice, ok? Just read the man's post and quit reading between the lines.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), May 30, 1999.

Cherri, nobody caused Ed to shut down this forum. Where did you come up with that? And where does it say that he's shutting down the forum? Have I read the essay wrong? I didn't see anything about "the forum." Am I suffering from a delusion? Or is everyone else suffering from a mass delusion, or perhaps an injected meme by those trolls and pollys?

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 30, 1999.

Oh, hen-pecked....just one last point. Why would the big-boys want Ed to keep his mouth shut , unless he was right? What would it be that they wouldn't want to leak out into the public domain? Do you believe the Government has decided that *this* forum is going to bring about TEOTWAWKI (yea, right), or could it be that this forum knows something the government wants to keep to themselves....what exactly is the point you're trying to make here? Gotta go, I smell coffee brewing!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), May 30, 1999.

You've got to be kidding! Do you really think "the government" sets around their computers, waiting impatiently to read every word that's said on this forum. Those "big boys" are sumthin," but I don't think we'll be hauled off to the concentration camps just yet.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 30, 1999.

Gilda, I think they've left us. cluck-cluck

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), May 30, 1999.

Will,

I'll couch it in kindergarten language for you. Sometimes people are just flat WRONG. They do things that are not in the public interest. But even these people can realize they're wrong, and can change their course of action.

Ed Yourdon has smelled the coffee, seen the improvements (a la P. deJager), has had that opinion reinforced by government folks who have more information-gathering capacity than he could ever hope to have.

He's dealing with reality. Why can't you?

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 30, 1999.

Chicken BIG commented:

"Ed Yourdon has smelled the coffee, seen the improvements (a la P. deJager), has had that opinion reinforced by government folks who have more information-gathering capacity than he could ever hope to have."

Did Ed Yourdon give you permission to speak on his behalf? What gall !

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), May 30, 1999.

i'll give odds of ten to one that one or more senators said something to ed, and that was the last straw for him.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), May 30, 1999.

No Ray,

Ed didn't give me permission.

The Almighty doesn't give weathermen the world over permission to describe obvious facts regarding the weather either, but people seem to accept it without calling it "gall".

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 30, 1999.

Chicken BIG commented:

"The Almighty doesn't give weathermen the world over permission to describe obvious facts regarding the weather either, but people seem to accept it without calling it "gall". "

Chicken BIG, I have seen WEAK responses on this forum before but this takes the cake. Congratulations !!!!!!!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), May 30, 1999.

The weather forecasting analogy is a decent one.

BUT,

The funny thing is, I don't recall the last time I heard one weatherman call another names and question his motives because he disagreed with his forecast.

-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), May 30, 1999.

Ray --

beauty's in the eye of the beholder...right back atcha Pal.

Jocelyn --

I agree with your odds, but from a different point of view. I'll bet Ed was given a good talking to, but in the context of "The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf":

The little boy cried Wolf. For a while this was a valid cry.

Then the Elders of the village captured the Wolf, and got it under control.

But the little boy kept crying wolf, and worse yet, people on his forum cried wolf in more extreme fashion than he himself did.

Finally the little boy was called before the Elders. He voiced his concerns about the Wolf, in a widely publicized Speech.

After that Speech, the Elders informed him (and rightly so) that the Wolf had been subdued for many months, and that all this Wolf crying was causing undue concern, for no valid reason. The little boy finally saw that this was true.

Shortly afterwards, the little boy removed his Wolf cries; but to save face, he told his followers that he still believed his Wolf cries were valid.

But he knew better. And anyone with half a brain who could read between the lines knew better too.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 30, 1999.

Of course everyone knows in the end the little boy was eaten by the wolf.

-- h (h@h.h), May 30, 1999.

in one version of the story, depending on the nationality...in other versions, the Wolf is killed and the little boy becomes an outcast

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 30, 1999.

No cherri- I doubt that idiotic posts on this board would cause Ed to shut down his whole Y2K work. This forum is just a tiny piece of the whole pie. Ed's work is much much larger than this forum.

I'm suprised by his decision, but obviously, I have to respect it. I would guess he's had enough and said enough and what else can he do? and if he's getting any personal attacks or threats, as I would theorize that he is, why would he want to expose his family to that? Several very active people on this forum have recently decided to drop out of sight- for their own reasons, as well.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), May 30, 1999.

hmmm-it got cut off. Anyway- several very active people on this forum have recently decided to take a break for their own reasons as well. They, and Ed included, also have a life. Ed doesn't "owe" anyone out there anything beyond common decency and respect. It's not his job to save the world.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), May 30, 1999.

The forum will continue to live, and the threads and messages should be able to be posted without any changes. I hope that we'll be able to make an announcement of the new forum sysop/moderator in the next day or so.

I'm dropping off the radar screen, but Y2K has not gone away -- nor have most of the forum participants. I wish all of you the very best!

Sincerely, Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), May 30, 1999.

-- nobody (nowhere@noway.nohow), May 30, 1999.

Y2K will not be hemmed in by any national boundaries. It infects the systemic global spider web.

-- h (h@h.h), May 30, 1999.

Chicken Little wrote:

There was a high-level talk between Mr. Ed and Somebody, and shortly afterwards, Mr. Ed yanks his Y2k doom-fear content ... and you don't think so? Think again. As in, wake up. Smell the coffee. Have a cup.

If this is the real reason Ed is packing it in, its bad news, not good news. If a high-level decision has been taken that doomers need to be leaned on, it bodes ill for how this story is going to play out.

If things were really under control, all the Feds would have to do is open up the Y2K projects to public inspection. Let the reporters interview the codeheads. Let the reporters see the internal status reports, the project plans, the analyses of which systems are "mission critical," show them the list of systems that arent "mission critical" (and the schedule of when those systems will be fixed).

HCFA--how are they doing? We havent heard a peep in the news for months. IRS--last I heard they had cancelled the project to replace all their computers. What is plan B? Nothing in the news about it.

FAA? They tested one or two of the mission critical systems at one airport, it was on the morning news shows for an entire week. Press release, press conference, the whole works, feel-good stories about people planning vacations involving air travel during the rollover. What about the other 60-some mission critical systems the FAA operates? Show us the project plans.

You saw 60 Minutes. The not very optimistic woman from DC. Senator Bennett mentioning the dread words "civil unrest." Thats an upper-class word for "riots." He had a big IF in front of the words. Well, how are they doing on the welfare check processing systems? Let some reporters into the glass houses to check it out for themselves. Id like to know.

If the big guys had really convinced Ed that everything is going to be OK, he would have told us. There is no chance that that is what happened.

More likely, he finally realized that it really is too late. Congress should have been on this at Day 1000. At Day 217, its too late.

-- Alan Rushby (arushby@my-dejanews.com), May 30, 1999.

Hope Cherri isn't following this bantive thread. She'll have another cow.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), May 30, 1999.

Ed armed us with info just as I arm you with slack.potent tools to be used to smite the conspiracy and all pink boy sell outs.fear not!the stark fist of removal is upon you!

-- "BOB" Dobbs ("BOB"@subgenious.com), May 31, 1999.