Several comments on this site state that Epson inks are not time stable. An Epson rep doing an Epson 900 demo claimed that their inks are archival quality and do not fade. I doubted this and took some printouts and set them in a sunny window for a month. To date both an ALPS and Epson sample show zero fading. An HP color sample has severe fading of the Cyan and Yellow inks. I have not tried Canon, I hear they would not do well. The 900 has outstandingly impressive print quality (3 picoliter output!) and speed. It's looking like a winner.

Anybody have more experience on this?

-- Rick Griffen (rgriffen@vabch.com), May 28, 1999

Answers

This is certainly encouraging news Rick. I too have concerns about the Epson inks - I would really like to replace my Photosmart with an Epson - but the archival issue is very important to me. I know ALPS won't fade but the visible banding is a real problem for me. I have placed a couple of pictures on my non-direct-sunlight window sill and have not seen fading with the Photosmart (45 days so far) - but have done no such tests with the Epson. (I don't believe full sun is a fair test)
Indeed I did call Epson when I was researching printers and their customer service actually told me to "simply reprint my pictures once a year or so" HA! That chased me right to the Photosmart and their public "claims" of superior stability. I just can't imaging Epson letting this issue go unaddressed and/or unresolved publicly. I will simply state that when I see an official statement from Epson that their inks are archival quality (or even near archival quality) - I will run out and buy the new 1200 on the very same day!
Des

-- Dan Desjardins (dan.desjardins@avstarnews.com), May 28, 1999.

Hi - Me again...
Check out this link - very interesting...

Epso n -vs- Photosmart Fade Test Results

Des

-- Dan Desjardins (dan.desjardins@avstarnews.com), May 28, 1999.

Rick,

-- Robert Johnson (rjjohnson@silverlink.net), May 29, 1999.

Rick,

Did you compare an HP photosmart print or another HP printer output?

-- Robert Johnson (rjjohnson@silverlink.net), May 29, 1999.

I found a product called Lyson Print Guard Archival Lacquer Spray. Has anyone tried this. It claims to improve the magenta fading by 400%. http://www.tssphoto.com/sp/dg/lyson_spray.html

-- Bob G (rgreg88721@hotmail.com), May 30, 1999.

I looked at the test of the Epson Photo 700 and yes the magenta does show fading. I am curious though in your test of the Epson 900 sounded better. I am wonder if Epson has changed the ink on there new variable dot size printers. I have a Photo 700 and a Photo 750. The ink cartridge for each is a different part number. I have heard that they are physically the same just different color, 700 is semi-clear milky white and the 750 is solid white. Something to be aware of is Epson's new Photo paper does seem to be better than the previous version. See web site below. I wish they would have gave it a new part number to so you know you are getting the new version when you order it.

http://www.tssphoto.com/sp/dg/fade.html

Also I am running a similar direct sunlight in the window test with Espon 740, Epson 900, HP880C, Canon BJC-5100, and Lexmark3200 all on plain paper. After reading discussion on this topic here I will be adding a Photo 700 print and a Photo 750 print on Epson's improved Photo Paper to my window. I would appreciate input as to whether I should do this with direct sun or indirect. I may split the photo in half and do both. I will post my results in a month or so. As another set of test I may try the Lyson Print Guard spray I mentioned in an earlier message.

-- Bob G. (rgreg88721@hotmail.com), May 30, 1999.

I would think direct sunlight a good (if a bit extreme) test of the fugitive nature of some inks. Make sure that it's ordinary glass, not laminated safety glass (like in a skylight) as the plastic laminating films sometimes stop UV. The other component of concern would be the resistance of the ink to the acids in the paper and in the atmosphere. I worry that the spray-on coating does more harm than good; personally I would not use it. Also, are you sure you need to be concerned about this? If you store these documents in a dark place and never expose them to more that 24 footcandles I suspect they will last forever UNLESS there is something unstable in the ink

-- Brian Hood Lighting Design (brian@hoodlight.com), May 30, 1999.

This is Brian Hood again- I shot an email to someone who I suspected might be up on this issue, here is his response:

I've been in the midst of the Epson ink stability issue for a long while now. There are two or three brands of archival inks for Epson printers (not all inks for all models) which offer Wilhelm certified life expectancies that beat out color photos. The problems include less bright colors, and difficult to correct color casts with some archival inks, and clogging issues when used in the tiny Epson Jets. Also, for images to last they must be printed on uncoated watercolor papers (or similar) so the inks tend to soak in and not be as bright and the darks not as dark. Many exotic solutions have been tried, but the word at the moment is that it is not a simple matter to print non-fading artwork or photo-grade images form any inkjet. Not the dye-subs or Iris' are any better, they just have different issues.For any brave enough to venture in: Lyson's archival inks are dye based, avoiding issues with ground pigments, but still having compatibility issues with residual Epson inks, so switching back and forth can cause clogs. The colors are somewhat muted, with the best red being a bit dull and orange. MIS inks have a combination of dye and pigment, requiring more frequent cleaning cycles, but seem to have a bit better color. Another brand of matched inks and papers has just come out (Archiva, I believe), but the prices are very high, and only the most devoted would cons

-- Brian hood (brian@hoodlight.com), May 30, 1999.

This is Brian Hood again. Here is a response to the thread from a person I know who is really into inkjet printers---------

Brian: I've been in the midst of the Epson ink stability issue for a long while now. There are two or three brands of archival inks for Epson printers (not all inks for all models) which offer Wilhelm certified life expectancies that beat out color photos. The problems include less bright colors, and difficult to correct color casts with some archival inks, and clogging issues when used in the tiny Epson Jets. Also, for images to last they must be printed on uncoated watercolor papers (or similar) so the inks tend to soak in and not be as bright and the darks not as dark. Many exotic solutions have been tried, but the word at the moment is that it is not a simple matter to print non-fading artwork or photo-grade images form any inkjet. Not the dye-subs or Iris' are any better, they just have different issues.For any brave enough to venture in: Lyson's archival inks are dye based, avoiding issues with ground pigments, but still having compatibility issues with residual Epson inks, so switching back and forth can cause clogs. The colors are somewhat muted, with the best red being a bit dull and orange. MIS inks have a combination of dye and pigment, requiring more frequent cleaning cycles, but seem to have a bit better color. Another brand of matched inks and papers has just come out (Archiva, I believe), but the prices are very high, and only the most devoted would cons

-- Brian Hood (brian@hoodlight.com), May 31, 1999.

To answer the question from Robert Johnson (rjjohnson@silverlink.net), May 29, 1999. The HP ink cartridge used is an HP51625A from my current 500C (Hey, that's why I'm shopping) on Weyerhaeuser Jet-xtra uncoated paper. . I didn't realize that the ink formulations varied. I will add a sample from an HP890 at my office.

On the ink cartridge used with the Epson 900. It is different from that used in the 700 or 750. It is a larger capacity but I can't speak for the ink itself.

My test is being run under a south facing skylight. It is tempered (not laminated) low-e glass. I'm using this both as an accelerated aging test and due to my exhibition area being under a similar skylight. It now June and the light is pretty intense

-- Rick Griffen (rgriffen@vabch.com), June 03, 1999.

Thanks Rick,

I believe that the only HP inks that are said to stand the test of time and sunlight is the HP Photo Smart printer inks. The retail places that I have gone to have said that any other HP inks will fade.

I have a Photo Smart printer so I guess I'll stick a print in the window with a blockout square and see what happens.

-- Robert Johnson (rjjohnson@silverlink.net), June 05, 1999.

I own and have used the Epson Stylus Photo 700 for over a year. I have printed hundreds of pictures. I was shocked when I saw the photos I had sent my family. They were on the refrigerator, near but not in direct sun light. They were embarrassing. They had faded very badly in less than a year. Since I have purchased archival paper and ink. I use Lysonic and Lumijet products. This stuff is "NOT" cheap, but it works. I talked to the folks at Epson, and they acted like they never heard of "any" fading problems. Just their attitude makes me want to change printers.

-- Nancy (ngilbertson@earthlink.net), November 07, 1999.