The handwriting is not only on the wall, but being shouted at us through the news on an almost hourly basis; the world as we've known it, and the prosperity we've been spoiled by - is over.

The only question is when. When does it all fall apart?

After stocks fall? After banks close? After panic starts? After Pakistan, India, North Korea or China loose a nuclear weapon? After terrorists strike with biological weapons on our own soil? After Clinton orders guns confiscated? After Jerry Springer heads for the hills?

It's not just me. The world has gone insane. This nation in particular. At no time in my 35 years have I seen and felt such utter uncertainty with foreboding. Pretending it isn't so, or calming myself on blind faith our leaders and industry are smart enough to avert catastrophe doesn't erase the fact that the globe is on the verge of REAL trouble.

Whether you admit it to yourself or not, the geopolitical stage is more unstable now than before BOTH world wars combined. Global powderkegs with myriad regional conflicts tend to explode into global crisis in quick order as this century proved TWICE.

To the idiot on the other thread that said things are no more dangerous than they were last year is in a state of delusion, as is most of the country. ALL of our NUCLEAR weapons secrets have been compromised!!! The one card we had to keep a rogue nation at bay is now gone! The one card we had to play that held the world in respect IS NOW IN THE HANDS OF ALL OUR AVOWED ENEMIES!!! China, North korea, Pakistan, Syria, Libya and IRAN all now have these technology secrets stolen from Los Alamos, and deciphered on supercomputers Clinton SOLD to China!!!!

Forget blame, it's too late for that now.

We're talking NUCLEAR conflict, BIOLOGICAL TERRORISM and REGIONAL WARFARE here children! Because this nation turned a blind eye to events, and indulged in the drunkeness of selfish wealth - we, the last remaining superpower- have allowed the world to run amok and acquire weapons of mass destruction, while age-old conflicts frozen during the cold war heated up unchecked. All this while we quibble amongst ourselves about gun control and cigarrettes while at the same time ignite the fuse of global thermonuclear conflict by attacking a sovereign nation for political expediency, which destroyed both our credibility and the Alliance the world once looked to for security in the face of Soviet aggression.

I can tell you with certainty, the seeds of our own destruction that have been sown and nurtured these last seven years WILL bring forth a harvest that will claim at least a ONE THIRD of our population. There's no avoiding this now. We're on a bobsled with no brakes straight to hell, and someone threw water on the snowpack in front of us.

This is REAL my friends. We can speculate all day about what Y2K may cause, and debate the intesity of disruptions and preparations...but geopolitically, we're TOAST. TEOTWAKI may have nothing to do with Y2K except making a bad situation worse. We can only have hope that with prudence, cooperation and divine intervention (or luck) - we survive what's about to come bashing in the door of pseudo security we blindly rely on.

For this reason, I'm taking a break from forum participation to finalize my own personal and community preparations. Time is short.

Thanks to all of you that posted and debated here. I've printed out many threads and gave them to community leaders that are now taking action that may not have before.

To my friends on this forum, I've learned much from all of you. I'll be checking in periodically for news, as this forum has the brightest, most informed people on the net (aside from us Star Wars geeks that endlessly pontificate the greatest saga of all time!).

To Andy, Nikoli, Greybear, Crono, Big Dog, Robert, a, Arlin, Old Git, Rick, Robert from Kennesaw GA, and the rest of the Preppin' crowd; keep the faith, keep it up, keep on keepin' and may you be blessed in all your efforts.

To Leska and Ashton in the magical, mystical and downright Ozlike land that is Cascadia --many thanks and our best to you and yours.

To my dear newshound Diane Squire; all my hopes and dreams for you. Thanks for the uplifts, the ponderings and the deep things you've shared. You will cross our minds often and especially when I create my pseudo-caffe mocha lattes. The wife detests them but hey, Ovaltine doesn't quite make a rival to a steamer from Starbucks....but as we're hundreds of miles from one, that'll have to do. After all, it's the thought that counts!

To Stephen Poole, Y2K Pro, Mr. Decker, Flint and the other wishful thinkers and debunkers;.....

I hope to God you're right...and I'm wrong.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), May 27, 1999

Answers

Good Luck INVAR.

-- a (a@a.a), May 27, 1999.

Praying for you and with you. If you want to dare some contact, email me.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), May 27, 1999.

Being a "johnny-come-lately" to the group, presently a rank outsider, I must acknowledge your message by saying that I agree with every word you've said. The world has lost the faculty of Love. We don't love ourselves, we love things. Therefore we don't love one another, we love what someone may do for us, we love the material. Because of this, all over the world, we've come to a sorry pass. Y2K or no Y2K, something somehow is going to bring and end to this loveless society. No, I am not talking about a religion, which hasn't been, or isn't going to be of much help to anyone other than the clergy. Not talking about politics. I am referring to the day-to-day act of loving ourselves and mankind. Loving animals, the very earth of which we are a part and which sustains us. All we love now is concrete, machines and money. Now, see what our love has given back to us...nothing! If we make it through the next two years we'll be lucky. Whoever you are I wish you all the best.

-- Richard Westerlind (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), May 27, 1999.

INVAR, I'll miss you old buddy. That parting post is right on the money. Victor Chernomerdon said today we are closer to nuclear war than at any time in history, and still the situation escalates. Our imported oil supplies look shaky to nonexistent, the stock market is ready to dump and take the entire world economy with it, and our government is trying to disarm the true patriots in the face of approaching disaster. I have come to the conclusion that Bill clinton most likely is indeed the anti=christ, and our fate is sealed as a nation and as a species. I'm not laying down and giving up though, this fight is to the death.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), May 27, 1999.

Twenty years ago or so a Princeton undergrad designed a working nuclear weapon using publicly available information. Designing one has never been the issue - it's the mammoth infrastructure required to refine uranium into weapons-grade plutonium which is the trick. Maybe you can steal some, but not enough to build a significant number of weapons. Furthermore, if you want to be able to have a credible delivery threat, then you need ICBM's, nuclear submarines, or high-speed stealth bombers - another huge burden upon infrastructure and technical resources. China just doesn't have what it takes right now to turn those stolen plans into a formidable arsenal.

As for biowarfare, if anyone dared make a concerted effort, they might do some isolated damage with anthrax or such, but there is no bio-agent outside of a Tom Clancy novel that can spread prodigiously and also carries a high mortality rate.

The real concern is Russia. They already have the capability to destroy a good chunk of civilization with their nuclear force. Let's hope that their government and economy stabilize at some point.

Whatever may be occurring, though, one thing hasn't changed since the 1970's - the concept of mutually assured destruction. As frightening as it is, it has worked quite well for a long time.

-- Nuke Spook (x@files.com), May 27, 1999.

Thanks for this post and previous ones, INVAR. I don't think you're off the mark on any of this, but like your last sentence indicated, MAYBE, just maybe, you (we) are wrong. But thats a wild hope, not something to count on. There IS a widespread sense with almost any thinking and/or spiritual person that we are "on the brink" --- we'll soon know for sure of what and how bad.

I too will be spending a lot more time preparing and less talking/observing (started only about 5 months ago).

As Simon and G sung about America "Its all right, its all right --- you can't be fore-ever blessed", or its like we're in C.S. Lewis's "The Last Battle".

God Bless You, INVAR. And I won't be reading the flames.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), May 27, 1999.

INVAR,

I shall miss reading your posts, as you have made me think more so than most others on this forum. FWIW, I agree with you 100%. I just hope that you (heck- all of us) have the time to finish before everything comes crashing down. You have constantly amazed me, as well as others I am sure, with your knowledge and thoughts.

Peace to you.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), May 27, 1999.

Nuke spook, are you crazy? Christ, you better get a clue quick. Over 50,000 illegal aliens a month cross our southern border. The Northern border is no more secure, and thousands of cargo containers are offloaded every day in our ports without being even opened. We have absolutely no defense against incoming missiles. The Russians hold a 3 to 1 edge over us in nuclear weapons, and Clintons response policy guarantees our missiles will be destroyed on the ground. Doh!!! Beating the palm of my hand against my head. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DETERENCE AGAINST THE RUSSIANS FIRING A FIRST STRIKE AT US.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), May 27, 1999.

Invar- It is sad to see people who made this board great leaving. We all have a sense that time is short, and so will see this happening more and more. I have lurked here for awhile and even though I can get my head around the ideas here, I never feel as eloquent in my postings as you guys & girls. It offers a world of hope, the kind of people preparing and writing here. Heros every one. I wish you and yours the best.

-- Gia (Laureltree7@hotmail.com), May 27, 1999.

INVAR,

I have the same concerns about what lies ahead. As a Christian pastor, I have been led to many helpful Scriptures. For anyone who may be interested: Isa. 8:11ff Isa. 33:16 - 35:10 Psalm 2, 11, 46, 91

Yesterday my Bible fell open to the Scripture above in Isa. 33-35. Just a coincidence right? This morning I picked up a different Bible and let it fall open and it opened to the same passage. That is no coincidence.

In Isa. 34 the message is that God is getting ready to show Who is really in charge. The only sane thing to do is to make peace with Him. As INVAR has pointed out, there is no hope in this world. (See Romans 10:13, John 3:16). Isa. 33:16 is a great promise for Christians. Memorize it for the days ahead. "...your bread and your water shall be sure."

Peace only in Christ, B

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), May 27, 1999.

INVAR- Take it easy and be cool

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), May 27, 1999.

Ladies and Gentlemen.....INVARiably MORONic has left the building....

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out...

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), May 27, 1999.

childish response

-- tim daniels (tim daniels@commonsense.com), May 27, 1999.

Y2KPro (NOT!)

We could only be so lucky if it was your ass the door was hitting!

-- (z@y.x), May 27, 1999.

Y2K PROfessional jerkoff.

-- one who knows (truth@consequences.getreal), May 27, 1999.

Thank you, Y2K Pro...

Your response to INVAR's reflective and dignified message of departure stands as a monument to the polys on this forum who have nothing to offer to the genuine discussion on how to prepare for Y2K: a monument for every newbie to see and understand.

Sandmann

-- Sandmann (Sandmann@alasbab.com), May 27, 1999.

INVAR, As the others, I agree with you completely. Will definitely miss your input, but understand completely about the preps. I'm glad that your community is listening to you. I pray that many souls can say that because of your unceasing efforts, they were ready. I wish you and yours all the best.

-- paladin (HaveGun@Will.Travel), May 27, 1999.

The chickens are demanding attention, but I want to say thanks to all of you. I'll carry these wishes in my heart, and know I hope the same for all of you.

But I had to respond to Nuke Spook with a few facts.

First, China DOES have, and has had for a few decades, the capability to make weapons grade plutonium. As a matter of fact, so does North Korea. Remember back in 1995 when Clinton GAVE N. Korea Nuclear power plant equipment in a bribe to stop them from developing ICBMs? CIA intel has stated last year that Pyonyang has taken that equipment, modified it, and are making refined plutionium in underground bunkers that they wanted $300 million in ransom from us to inspect.

Secondly, they were SOLD the delivery systems you say they don't have back in '95 and '96 from Loral Space that was granted a waiver SIGNED personally by William Jefferson Clinton who bypassed Congress and the Energy Dept. to allow the technology transfer.

What this means is, the w-88 technology that China stole in 1988 was essentially useless without a delivery system. Thanks to campaign dollars from China, Loral Corp. fixed China's 3-stage ICBM's that at the time they claimed were for sattelite launches. Now, not only can China destroy 10 cities with ONE ICBM fired from mainland China, but that N. Korea was given the same technology by China and fired a 3- stage ICBM across Japan and off Alaska's coast last year!

Thirdly, the claim they cannot make a formiddable arsenal is patently false. The w-88 technology is MIRV technology that allows the miniaturization of nuclear warheads. Intel suspects they may have several hundred by now. What is being bantied about by Richardson is the fact that at the moment they only have 20 ICBM capable missles. I don't know about your math, but 20 ICBMs can carry 10 warheads apiece, each targeting a different American city. Which 200 cities or targets on our soil do you want to be living in right now?

AND THEY ARE TARGETED AT OUR CITIES.

Hell, China threatened to nuke Los Angeles two years ago if we interfered with their plans to re-take Taiwaan!

Lastly, The Cox report cites from Intel that China successfully tested 7 Neutron Bombs! That's a weapon that even WE haven't deployed or tested due to the SALTII treaty!!!

Are you getting this?, they have weapons we haven't even developed! They have the SOURCE CODE, the Legacy codes that enable China to design, construct and TEST nukes on supercomputers Clinton sold them in 1994!!! Not only that, but the legacy codes have the ABORT and LAUNCH codes of our ENTIRE NUCLEAR ARSENAL. China (and the rest of the world I assume by now) KNOWS what nukes we have, WHERE they are and WHAT they can do, not to mention HOW to launch or ABORT those missles.

I suggest reading "The Year Of The Rat" or "Betrayal" by Bill Gertz to get a grip on what has happened to our national security.

Or read the redacted Cox report to get a feel.

Any way you look at it.....BIG, BIG trouble ahead.

BYW, our nukes haven't been tested or refitted since 1992 thanks to orders from the Commander in Chief. This goes without mentioning the removal of ALL our nuke warheads from the remaining Tomahawk cruise missle stockpile to be refitted with conventional warheads for Clintons little suare' there in Kosovo.

None of the Tomahawks OR nukes has been replaced.

Does the term "Sitting Duck" mean anything?

Pray everyone. And PRAY hard.

It's all that is left now.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), May 27, 1999.

I think that's y2k pro's way of saying he will miss INVAR. I bet he's crying right now!

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), May 27, 1999.

Invar: As a relative newcomer, I have undoubtedly read only a fraction of what you have posted here. I haven't agreed with all of it, but you have been right on the money a number of times. This is one of them. I grew up hoping to make it to my next birthday. With the destruction (?) of the Soviet Union and the Berlin Wall, I actually thought I'd live to see 2000. Now I'm not so sure.

Again I find myself hoping to make it to my next birthday.

Sad world.

-- newlurker (no@no.com), May 27, 1999.

Invar,

Go ahead and do what you need to do, but check back when you can. And try not to worry too much about it all, even as oppressive as things seem from time to time. There have always been dark days in the brightest centuries. It may be that it's just our turn now. We don't have to like it, we just have to outlast it. Hang in there,

-- Lee (lplapin@hotmail.com), May 27, 1999.

Dear Nuke Spook, You know as much about bio-war as Poole CEP does about nuclear protection. To correct this ignorance, I suggest you read the book A Higher Form Of Killing. You will be astounded by the chapter on anthrax.

Also as evidenced by the LSPA at Krasnoyosk and the ABM ring around Moscow and the massive CD system and the 1,000's of "Furher Bunkers" that can survive a direct hit by a 1 Mt for the Nomenkultura - Russians have never ever subscribed to the MAD philosophy, only the US has.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), May 27, 1999.

Spook,

Not to quibble, but you don't refine uranium into plutonium. They are different elements altogether. You refine uranium ore into "weapons grade uranium" by separating the various isotopes of uranium. I forget whether you want Ur236 or Ur238. One of them is the isotope used in nukes.

This is done via centrifuges. We managed this in 1944. I would imagine that qualifies as "low tech".

Jolly

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), May 27, 1999.

INVAR, take care. I hope you are wrong but logic sometimes can dash the best of hopes, huh? Thanks for the reality check and I hope you can come back every once in a while.

Mike ================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), May 27, 1999.

INVAR,

AMEN AND AMEN. God bless you and yours. I hope to see you on the other side of Jordan some day.

-- trafficjam (judgementday@ahead.soon), May 27, 1999.

And the fem-fags (lezzies) have created so much hysteria that a 10-year old (male) is facing charges for "bra-snapping".

Goodbye, America, with regrets; goodbye, Amerika, with glee.

-- A (A@AisA.com), May 27, 1999.

Spook,

MAD is now a myth. Go to worldnetdaily.com and newsmax.com and read Nyquist's archived articles. Every Monday and Thursday you'll learn the truth about what INVAR is so concerned about that he is prepping for all he's worth. May we all follow suit. Here is today's article:

======================================================================

America's intelligence failure

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

) 1999 WorldNetDaily.com

Let's put the Cox Committee's report in perspective. Last year Russia and China officially announced a "strategic partnership." In the words of the Chinese government, this partnership was founded to challenge the "perceived global dominance of the United States." Did our vaunted CIA anticipate this new alliance between Russia and China? Probably they were caught napping, like the time Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990, or when India conducted a number of surprise nuclear tests in May 1998. Judging from U.S. foreign policy, there has been no official reaction to the new Moscow-Beijing axis. From all external appearances, the U.S. intelligence community has not yet recognized that the "former" Communist Bloc is reappearing under a new guise. And yet, we were warned of this impending Russian-Chinese partnership as far back as 1984, by a Russian KGB defector named Golitsyn. We were told of a secret strategy of Russian-Chinese collusion. We were told that America was still the "main enemy" of the Chinese, and that one day Russia would unite with China into "one clenched fist." But few believed these warnings, because most Americans assumed that the FBI and CIA would have long ago discovered any Sino-Soviet collusion, and American policy would have been adjusted to meet this challenge.

Unfortunately, America's intelligence and counterintelligence functions are tertiary, and will never be allowed to interfere with the making of money, which is primary. As President Coolidge once said: "The business of America is business." And as it happens, American business has become deeply involved in China.

Therefore, the bad news about Russia and China has been ignored. Espionage has been tolerated. Human rights abuses have been excused. But the intelligence failure goes deeper than the sociology of the market and our desire to make money from cheap Chinese labor. America's inability to protect vital secrets also stems from national laxness, hedonism, and a desire for convenience.

America's prosperity has led it away from the call to arms of President Kennedy, who asked Americans "to pay any price, to bear any burden" in the struggle against totalitarianism. After Kennedy's assassination we began a long retreat, first in Southeast Asia, then in Africa. Under Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush we snuggled up to the Chinese Communists, the world's foremost butchers and murderers. Clinton has followed this example, with his own special twist. Now we're in a strategic mess, and it's entirely our own fault. Every time we buy that cheap item that says "Made in China," we're adding to the problem.

In this context, the FBI and CIA do not exist in a vacuum. These agencies cannot avoid sharing in the faults and failings of the American people. And so, as the American people softened, the FBI and CIA softened too. America's failure to cope with Communist subversion and penetration in the 1940s and 50s was a small failure. Small at first. The atomic bomb spies, Julius and Ethel Rosenburg, were caught and convicted. They fried in the electric chair on June 19, 1953. The chemist, Harry Gold, was sentenced to 30 years for giving away atomic secrets gleaned from Klaus Fuchs. Morton Sobell, a friend and classmate of Julius Rosenberg, also got a 30-year sentence. But American vigilance lost its edge. The espionage situation gradually worsened in the 1960s and '70s. By the 1980s we had a virtual explosion of traitors and spies.

If you track the espionage cases in this country from 1953 to 1999, you will see direct evidence of the increasing decay and rottenness of the intelligence side of our security establishment. Seventeen major espionage cases were brought into the limelight between 1984 and '85 alone. Consequently, the year 1985 became "the Year of the Spy."

Among the more spectacular cases of the 1980s: 1) Edward Lee Howard, a CIA employee, fled to the Soviet Union after his espionage was discovered; 2) The infamous Walker spy ring consisted of Navy Warrant Officer John Walker, his brother Arthur Walker (a retired naval officer), and Jerry Whitworth (Navy radioman). The Walker spy ring went undetected for 17 years; 3) Glenn Souther, a Navy satellite photography expert, is believed to have stolen the Navy's nuclear war plan. He successfully escaped to the Soviet Union in 1986 where he was given the rank of major in the KGB. Souther was an ideological convert to Communism. Souther's wife suspected him after their divorce, and contacted the Office of Naval Intelligence, who sent someone out to interview her. But naval intelligence did not follow through.

There is no doubt the United States was seriously penetrated by Soviet agents in the 1940s and 50s. A top-level U.S. official named Alger Hiss was -- indisputably -- a Soviet agent. But do we imagine it ended with him?

In December of 1984, then-FBI Director William H. Webster stated, "We have more people charged with espionage right now than ever before in our history. ..."

The spies we caught in the 1980s were military and intelligence personnel. At the time, nobody was looking at the American business community, or at our politicians. We know that politicians around the world have been recruited and blackmailed by the Chinese and Russian intelligence services. Can we honestly assume that our country has been immune to this sort of penetration?

In 1985, Sen. Malcolm Wallop reacted to the espionage problem in America, saying: "There are far too many in the intelligence community who either do not understand counterintelligence or who, understanding its concepts, have climbed to the top of their career ladders by opposing it."

Some might say that espionage against the United States isn't a serious problem. After all, America is an invincible superpower. Our enemies have always been weak and pathetic. But the former Director of Naval Intelligence, Rear Admiral William Studeman, says that the espionage of the 1980s had "powerful war-winning implications for the Soviet side."

The same must be said about the espionage of the 1990s.

Could it be that the FBI and CIA are clueless, that they have failed miserably at the intelligence game, that the United States has been tricked and outmaneuvered by its adversaries time and time again?

Overall, there is nothing that should surprise us in the Cox Committee's report. The Chinese stole secrets from every major U.S. weapons project for the past 20 years. What else could we have expected, given our laxness?

Los Alamos, Sandia, and Lawrence Livermore were penetrated by Chinese agents. Why not? Who would have stopped them, other than the New York Times? Secrets from seven U.S. nuclear warheads were compromised. (Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were there first.)

Electromagnetic weapons technology has also been taken. These could be used to bring down satellites or sink our submarines. Are we getting to the powerful, war-winning implications yet?

The citizens of this country need to harden themselves, to harden their thinking on these issues. The fight against treason and espionage depends on zero tolerance. Now that we are facing a combined Chinese-Russian threat, it's time to get serious.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

J.R. Nyquist is a WorldNetDaily contributing editor and author of 'Origins of the Fourth World War.'

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), May 27, 1999.

INVAR,

Five minutes ago I printed your letter, then I taped it to the wall of my office. When work seems impossible I will read your letter again. Posts like this really touch something deep inside me. I actually believe that many of us have a sixth sense telling us that something big is coming at us. There is something in the atmosphere that is regularly whispering in our ear. We therefore crave an interpreter. It is like the truth has made an appearance in the deepest parts of the night, and now we are collectively raising each other's consciousness of what it is we have dreamed.

See ya on the other side, pard.

-- Rick (doc_u_ment@hotmail.com), May 27, 1999.

Invar, we will miss you very much. You are a rad saucy firebrand who pulls no punches and says what needs to be said. Thank you. Please check in as the news warrants and you have a moment.

If w'all make it to November, to ThanksGiving, we can once again gather round the evanescent screen and express our thoughts to one another while we still can. May you have a productive Summer and fruitful harvest, and be satisfied at the end of each day of your progress.
The Saga is a legend in our minds and hearts, continuing with secret smiles and code-word-triggered outbursts of belly-laughs. May your oddball humor survive intact, mellowed and quickened. Again, we already miss you.

"The grim march of world political events points inexorably to the truth that without spiritual vision, the people perish. Science, if not religion, has awakened in humanity a dim sense of the insecurity and even insubstantiality of all material things. Where indeed may man go now, if not to his Source and Origin, the Spirit within him?

Consulting history, one may reasonably state that man's problems have not been solved by the use of brute force. World War I produced an earth-chilling snowball of dread karma that swelled into World War II. Only the warmth of brotherhood can melt the present colossal snowball of sanguinary karma that may otherwise grow into World War III. Unholy twentieth-century trinity! Use of jungle logic instead of human reason in settling disputes will restore the earth to a jungle. If not brothers in life, then brothers in violent death. It was not for such ignominy that God lovingly permitted man to discover the release of atomic energies!

War and crime never pay. The billions of dollars that went up in the smoke of explosive nothingness would have been sufficient to have made a new world, one almost free from disease and completely free from poverty. Not an earth of fear, chaos, famine, pestilence, the danse macabre, but one broad land of peace, prosperity, and widening knowledge."

-- Sri Sri Paramahansa Yoganandaji, in 1952

xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), May 27, 1999.

WARNING!********WARNING!

Fruitcake Alert!!!!!!!!!

I actually believe that many of us have a sixth sense telling us that something big is coming at us. There is something in the atmosphere that is regularly whispering in our ear.

-- Fruitcake (alerter@doomers.rus), May 27, 1999.

INVAR: We don't always see eye to eye on all of these issues but I have to agree with you that we now live in very dangerous and uncertain times. I wish you and your family the best - please keep your head low. Stop back in when you get a chance.

Nuke Spook said:

As for biowarfare, if anyone dared make a concerted effort, they might do some isolated damage with anthrax or such, but there is no bio-agent outside of a Tom Clancy novel that can spread prodigiously and also carries a high mortality rate.

Well, I guess that sort of depends upon your definition of "virulence" and "high mortality rate". For the record, I feel that your statement above is blatantly false. As just one example of the kind of insanity that concerns Invar, I recommend you familiarize yourself with the work of Kanatjan Alibekov before you make further unsubstanciated claims. The former Soviet bioweaponeering 'brain trust' is now distributed across the globe. People gotta earn a living you know.

Just how much money and how many people would it take to make a coordinated, simultaneous bio-attack on 30's of the world busiest airports? Just how 'isolated' do you think such an attack would be? Such an attack would likely be silent and not even recognized as an attack for a at least a day or two. Just how would you retaliate?

Invar's concerns are most certainly valid.

My biggest concern with respect to Y2K is not the failures themselves but rather the golden opportunity it presents to a thousand groups waiting in the wings to make a grab at power and willing to do whatever it takes to get it.

We do not make this situation any less perilous by dismissing it or 'playing down' the very real danger. We cannot begin to make things better until we acknowledge that we have a serious problem.

Invar might be right -- we may not be able to stop what at this point seems inevitable. I'd like to believe that he is wrong. But unless we try we shall never know. And trying begins with an acknowledgement of the size and scope of the problem.

To the extent that future generation may look back in disgust at their self-centered, short sighted ancestors, I think we owe it to those yet unborn to prevent what is clearly preventable.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), May 27, 1999.

INVAR,

Sorry to see you go for now but understand your feeling of urgency. Have greatly enjoyed your posts. Do check in once & while - this forum needs your input. Keep the faith and remember it's all in His Hands.

A Sad But Holy God

Speech from Peter Marshall,Jr. 1992

America the Beautiful, or so you used to be. Land of the Pilgrim's pride, I hope they never see babies piled in dumpsters, abortion on demand. Sweet land of liberty, your house is on the sand. People wander aimlessly poisoned by cocaine choosing to indulge when God said to abstain. From sea to shining sea, our country turns away from the teaching of God's word and the need to always pray. Phony TV pastors tell lies about our Rock saying God's going broke so they can fleece the flock. We voted in a government that's rotten to the core, appointing Godless judges who throw reason out the door, too soft to place the killer in his well-deserved tomb but brave enough to kill the child before he leaves the womb. How are we to face our God from whom we cannot hide? What is left for us to do to stem this evil tide? If we who are called will humbly turn and pray, and if we seek His holy face and leave our evil way, then God will hear from Heaven and forgive us of our sin, He'd heal our sickly land and those who live within. But America the Beautiful if you don't then you will see, a sad but holy God withdraw His hand from thee.

-- texan (bullseye@ranch.com), May 27, 1999.

Remember several months ago I told you that the United States would be attacked by those who hate our guts? As far as I know I was the first to make such a statement on this forum, maybe not, but the computer wiz bangers could figure that out. And then I ended the statement with...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A few wrote and asked me where I got my info from and I replied. It came from the Bible and that was the end of any response to my emails re: WAR! There are only three WW's mentioned in Revelations and the one coming will be the end of WAR!

Remember WWI was called the "War to end all Wars." They were close to right, just two wars off, or maybe it is the continuation of the same and is called, The Great Day of the Lord. Then we will have peace.

I am more interested in sitting on the porch with a cigar and a glass of wine watching the the grass grow while the cows munch it down, however I will answer anyone who is interested. It is not preachy junk, just facts, (Bible facts). By the way, I backed up my Bible knowledge re: this coming war with info from the Library, the old way, and everything I read and dug up proved, (to me) that we will come under attack.

"They have taken crafty counsel against my people..."

WE WIN!

But it won't be easy or fun.

Email me if you want info, glad to give it!

INVAR is right!

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), May 27, 1999.

INVAR; Keep your faith, and dig DEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOOD LUCK

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), May 27, 1999.

With eyes raised & heart open I ask that God may Bless you & yours Invar.

'ROTFLMAO' spelled backwards is INVAR!

Peace

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), May 27, 1999.

INVAR:

Yes, please take some time off to make thorough preparations. I've been away because I had to do some things. Hanging out in cyberspace was wasting too much of my time. Now that I've accomplished more than I'd hoped for during this month, I'll be visiting this site more frequently until the stock market crashes.

I shan't disagree with your warnings. This lull will not last.

I feel alone in my community and factory. I know locally only four acquaintances (none family) who perceive there will be some very bad troubles to hit America, but the soon coming judgments are invisible to everyone else. They are blinded by prosperity!

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), May 27, 1999.

INVAR,

I'm sorry to see an old-timer like you go. I agree that right now we as a world are looking over the edge into the Abyss. If we somehow make it through this next few years without widespread destruction and death, it will only be because God has been more merciful to us than we deserve. Good luck with the preparations, and may God be with you and your family.

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), May 27, 1999.

Invar...I'm sure you'll read all these threads...hopefully this one too. (since it's your last) Consider...I concur 100% with your fears. I too am convinced we are on the verge of something. I feel it ...a sense of foreboding. But we can take it one day at a time. Prepare..yes...but take it easy. For one thing, no one knows the future. The sustaining thing in my life has been a reliance on the creator. You can be sure that he is there for us. Please remember the words of his son, when he told us "Who of you by being anxious can add I cubit to his life span? ...and "Keep on then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness...and all these other things (the things everyone are so worried about) will be added to you. I promise, this is not a pipe dream. It is substantiated by the promises in the Bible. God does indeed care. anyway....I hope all goes well for you...and listen to those Witnesses when they per chance hit your door. You will be comforted beyond your wildest imaginations..... After Armageddon...a thousand year reign of peace and security...and don't we need that? Surely...and its a promise from our Creator..."who cannot lie"

-- rick shade (Rickoshade@aol.com), May 27, 1999.

Ahh yes, Invar, how will I miss thee? Let me count the ways: And this is just from one post.

No longer to be called "a moronic liberal piece-of-shit, a twit, emotion-driven feeble minded, idiot, emoting moron, and especially this passage about Clinton, which I found so complimentary, and edifying, "You either have the hots for him, or you are a willingly blind-deaf and dumb idiot that would follow him right into the gas chamber. Idiots like you are the reason this nation will end in massive suffering and loss. You will have only yourselves to blame."

So I will miss you like the plague, you "crusty botch of nature."

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 27, 1999.

gilda, if you weren't such a rabid venom dripping Christian hater you wouldn't draw that kind of fire.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), May 27, 1999.

Gilda,

Gee, you must have skipped the good parts of the book How to Win Friends and Influence people. Try reading it one more time.

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), May 27, 1999.

"Time is short."

Mea Culpa: As God is my witness, I sincerely regret my poor stewardship over what He put in my care these last twenty-odd years. I am deep in debt and-at best-will only be able to pay off a little more than half of it before the end of the year, barring a miracle. Suffice it to say that I have done my best to help my Mom, at least, be prepared for what may be coming. I have tried to help the rest of my immediate family get a handle on Y2K, etc. with mixed results. All I can do now is strive to keep my hands off of the "stick" of what remains of my life. The Lord knows what he is doing and I MUST trust that along with His discipline, He has made provision for all of this fool's screw-ups. INVAR, my prayers are with you as they are with all my brothers and sisters in Christ. May He put a hedge around you and keep you and yours safe.

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), May 27, 1999.

Thanks INVAR for your consistent commonsense input to a complex problem. All here truly appreciate your thoughts, so don't be gone too long. You are needed here more than you may realize.

best to you,

Bob P

-- Bob P (rpilc99206@aol.com), May 27, 1999.

INVAR -

via con Dios, my friend, and remember to always, always, *always* have a plan "B"!

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 27, 1999.

God Speed, and good luck in your endeavors. Whenever I see a bag of donuts, I'll always think of you and this forum :-)

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), May 27, 1999.

I just got around to reading that Bagga Saga! Made me laff my ass off! BTW, what ever happened to Jimmy?

-- JBD ain't fer me (iate@dunkindonutz.com), May 27, 1999.

I'll miss you too, INVAR. Good luck.

And I'll miss Mr. K.

And I too will be spending even more time on preps, though I will not discontinue asking the questions I always get replies to.

-- GA Russell (garussell@russellga.com), May 28, 1999.

Invar,

From this newbie to you. May God bless you and KYPD!

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), May 28, 1999.

Truly sad to see you go Invar,

I've taken a month off here and there too to chill out a little and i've noticed you haven't been around so much lately - I fully understand that you need to concentrate your mind on other things now - after all there is nothing we can now do individually to alter world events, they are going to take their course no matter what - we can however have a local effect and I know you know that. So, the best of luck to you and yours, try and drop in now and then..., If truth be told I'm seriously considering an extended "holiday" somewhere warm and remote - where I can read all those books that I never got around to reading, where I can let all this madness play out in the hotspots around the world. This is a strong self- preservation instinct kicking in with me, and I really don't know if I can ignore it. I've tried to alert family and friends in the USA to absolutely no avail, so I feel that I've done my bit.

Good luck once again, and take care

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 28, 1999.

Invar,

You have been a blessing to me. It helpe imensely to know that there are other true Ameriacans out there.

God bless you and fare well.

-Greybear

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), May 28, 1999.

you idiots actually think christains use words like "fuck" "eat-shit" and the like? you think Invar is a christian?!?

All praise the mighty cult of yourdonefor.

-- buttfuq (invar@gun.dark), May 28, 1999.

ps greybear: if your going to impersonate an "Ameriacans" at least try to spell it right.

-- you2 (jerkoff@the.cult), May 28, 1999.

You take care INVAR, and yes, please check in once in a while. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), May 28, 1999.

>>>>>>>>>Whatttt??

"you idiots actually think christains use words like "fuck" "eat- shit" and the like? you think Invar is a christian?!? All praise the mighty cult of yourdonefor.

-- buttfuq (invar@gun.dark), May 28, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

ps greybear: if your going to impersonate an "Ameriacans" at least try to spell it right.

-- you2 (jerkoff@the.cult), May 28, 1999."

Who are you to speak of Christianity. It has nothing to do with man mad "evil, nasty, dirty" words, and everything to do with intentions. May I sujest some spiritual guidance, not your present perceptions on Christianity.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), May 28, 1999.

INVAR- Will miss you and your "unique" aproach.

Nuke Spook - just sat through a briefing for EMS personnel by one of the FBI SWAT Medical Directors You NEED to learn something about the C & B of CBR.

Anthrax- Aerosolizable (someone walking down the street with a little nasal sprayer can take out half a city), spores last indefinitely (used anthrax on an island in the brit Isles 40 years ago. It's still there, still viable, still infectious)

Sarin - not controled as it has industrial uses. last REAL threat to be disarmed was at Disney world. the alphabet guys got LUCKY since the detonation circuitry on the dispersal explosive didn't work. It was VERY CLOSE.

Organophosphates these are nerve agents we use for pest control. They are NERVE AGENTS and are VERY nasty, and HIGHLY available.

Go do some homework and then you can come out and play with the adults.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), May 28, 1999.

Sorry to see you go. I understand the urgency and the need to fade.

The Best for you and yours, My hand across the Net, Good Luck. BobB

-- Bob Barbour (r.barbour@waikato.ac.nz), May 28, 1999.

If INVAR is your role model for true "Ameriacans," and has so much "commonsense," with his "unique" approach for how to run the US, then we are truly doomed. Yes, his hate filled, mean, filth spewing posts, have been very uplifting and spiritual.

And yes, there are some very rotten things going on; name me one period of history that didn't have very rotten things going on. Just keep listening to his hate, rage and flaming paranoia that the U.S. is the worst country on the planet, and soon you will be a lot happier. Better yet, move to a country that doesn't have these problems.

Invar a Christian? Yeah, and I'm the Virgin Mary. It just goes to prove what I've always said; call yourself a Christain and you've got it made. Everyone will think you're wonderful, no matter what you do, or say, or how you say it. Just like the bad cops--close ranks and protect your own.

I do hope, as J. Jetson prayed, that Christ "may put a hedge around you and keep you an yours safe," and as far away from me as possible.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 28, 1999.

Goodbye, INVAR, I'll miss you. :( I hope that you do alright, and that you continue to spread the truth! I'll miss your honesty and the way you always called things the way they ARE! Good luck to you *sniff* You always made this foreum a more enlighted place with you're posts, and we will miss you!

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), May 28, 1999.

INVAR,

I'm new to this forum, but have been GI for a couple of years.

Right on the money. We are spread too thin. WAY too thin.

BTW for a low yield device you use U235. For high yield stuff take your U235 and place it in a Fermi Pile and "cook" it. The cooking process forms a certain percentage of Pu, the details are in Gamov's book on the Atomic Bomb published in '46. Essentially, a highly motivated 1st year physics student could build on in his backyard.

INVAR do what you gotta do. Peace.

-- homer (homer1175@yahoo.com), May 28, 1999.

Dear INVAR,

Ill miss your warrior spirit and willingness to jump in to the the digital fray with both arms swinging. In days of yore, youd have been one of the battle-scarred knights on black chargers, trying to right the wrongs done the poor, the abused and the downtrodden. Weary in spirit, but still following the wisdom of the hidden heart.

A rough diamond, certainly, but with a twinkle all your own under that gruff and angry exterior. Be well, and brave, and prepare to protect and serve your family, your neighbors and your community in your own special way. Be alert and trust your inner guidance. Take numerous time-outs to connect to your spiritual guidance too. Ask first, then act.

Remember also, to EXPECT the unexpected. It is real and has a consciousness all its own. Surprising things can happen in the blink of an eye. And pay attention to the synchronicities, they are often the luminescent bread crumbs sprinkled by forces unseen to light a guided pathway. Be sure youre tapped in, not tapped out.

Try, very hard, against all odds, to not be so entrenched in morbid and fearful thoughts, even at the darkest of times, that you cant appreciate the flight of a butterfly or fly multi-directionally in your thoughts with the hummingbirds. The magic of life still abounds even when the dark clouds gather. After a storm, the sun shines, the land sparkles and new growth affirms our place in the cycle of the natural.

Develop the art of dancing upon shifting sands and become an energy master, able to move and deflect an oncoming force--not unlike the Chi teachings of the great martial arts masters. The greatest of warriors remember to keep their hearts open, and come from that centered, sacred space.

Despite how it all appears, illusion though still reigning, is just as ephemeral. Chase the self-allowed doomish cobwebs away, and find your own buried treasure, the strength of living presence, of joy.

Who knows? You just may see your daughters attend their prom nights while dad fusses at home with the espresso maker. Shift Happens.

I raise my caffe latte mug to you in salute!

Go in peace, surrounded by white light, digital warrior. And may guardian angels watch over you and yours.

Blessings,

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 28, 1999.