This is not getting much new play in the US press, but it appears that Pakistan and India are inching towards an all out war again. This could have serious ramifications. The madness continues to spread.....

http://asia.yahoo.com/headlines/270599/news/927812040-90527133441.newsasia.html

Just type in India or Pakistan on the Yahoo news services.

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Asia 9:34 PM GMT+8, Thursday May 27

Previous Story: India briefs Sri Lanka on Kashmir issue AFP Next Story: White House urges restraint from India, Pakistan AFP

Indian opposition wants "fitting reply" to downing of jets

Previous Story: India briefs Sri Lanka on Kashmir issue AFP Next Story: White House urges restraint from India, Pakistan AFP

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-- helium (heliumavid@yahoo.com), May 27, 1999

Answers

Also see

http://asia.yahoo.com/headlines/270599/news/927816360-90527144618.news asia.html

Indian cabinet holds emergency meeting after Pakistan downs fighter

-- helium (heliumavid@yahoo.com), May 27, 1999.

Indian cabinet holds emergency meeting after Pakistan downs fighter

NEW DELHI, May 27 (AFP) - The Indian cabinet met in emergency session Thursday to discuss a response to Pakistan's shooting down of at least one of its air force fighters over the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir.

Defence Minister George Fernandes said the cabinet had reached a collective decision on the question of possible retaliation.

"But I cannot tell you about it at this point of time," he told reporters.

"Nobody talks about war lightly," Fernandes added when asked if the incident could escalate into a full-blown military conflict.

After the cabinet meeting, Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee met with Indian President K.R. Narayanan to brief him on the situation in Kashmir.

Pakistan said it had shot down two Indian fighters Thursday that had strayed into its airspace over the disputed border dividing Indian- and Pakistan-controlled Kashmir.

Indian army officials confirmed that two fighters had been lost, but said only one had been shot down, while the other crashed following a mechanical failure.

Both planes were taking part in the second straight day of aerial attacks against Moslem guerrillas holed up in the mountainous Indian region of Kargil, near the border with Pakistan.

India says some 400 Pakistan-trained guerrillas, mostly foreign mercenaries, have crossed the border into Kargil during the past two weeks under the cover of intense cross-border shelling.

Indian Air Marshal S.K. Malik said in New Delhi that a MiG-27 was downed by a Pakistani surface-to-air missile while conducting a search operation for the pilot of a MiG-21 which crashed earlier after a mechanical failure.

"We consider this a provocative act. The other side has escalated the situation," Malik said.

"We have the tactics against the provocation ... but we will confine our actions to our side of the border and will take appropriate action."

While stressing that the MiG-27 was in Indian airspace when it was shot down, Malik admitted it may have "strayed very close" to the Line of Control -- the de facto border separating the Indian and Pakistan zones of Kashmir.

"The MiG-27 was flying close, perhaps even three kilometres (two miles) near the Line of Control but it was well within our airspace."

The Indian air force launched a third round of aerial attacks in the Kargil region at dawn Thursday, targetting guerilla hideouts and ammunition stores.

Three helicopter gunships and bombers attacked the ranges of Batalik, Drass and Tiger Hills, more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) northeast of Kashmir's summer capital of Srinagar.

"Operations have entered a new phase," Brigadier Mohan Bhandari told a press briefing in New Delhi.

"We have ample proof that the intruders are Pakistan army regulars in disguise," Bhandarin said, adding Pakistan was making "constant efforts" to renew supply chains to the guerrillas.

Bhandari also cited intelligence reports that hundreds more militants were waiting to cross the Line of Control.

Indian Major General J.J. Singh Singh said Indian troops -- believed to now number around 17,000 in Kargil -- had cut the escape routes of the Moslem guerrillas, who are holed up some six kilometres (four miles) deep inside Indian territory.

"The intruders have suffered heavy casualties from artillery shelling and the air strikes and there are wounded up there who need medical help but under the current circumstance that will not be possible," Singh said.

The escalation of tensions between India and Pakistan, which both conducted nuclear tests in May, 1998, has raised international concerns at the prospect of a military conflict in South Asia.

Pakistan has asked the United Nations to send a special envoy to help ease tensions.

The two countries have fought three wars since their independence from Britain in 1947, two of them over Kashmir.

India holds two thirds of Kashmir, with Pakistan controlling the other third. More than 24,000 people have died in a decade-long separatist campaign in the Indian Kashmir.

-- helium (heliumavid@yahoo.com), May 27, 1999.

This is not a prediction but it wouldn't suprise me if within a week someone had used their nukes.

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), May 27, 1999.

This may sound strange (s'aright, I'm strange), but from a global or US-parochial standpoint would it be all bad if India-Pak went nuke ? I ask because I think seeing some nukes in action makes people and leaders a little more sober. I think Chernobyl helped end the cold war by putting a reality-based fear of homeland nuke devastation into the Soviet leaders. If we all watch India/Pak tactically nuke each other now, it might save us a civilization-destroying war in the near future.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), May 27, 1999.

Well, I guess it COULD solve the Kashmir ownership problem if nukes were used. It becomes nobody's land for the next 5,000-10,000 years...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), May 27, 1999.

MadMonk,

We nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki a short 44 years ago. Know what the current populations of those cities are?

Hiroshima - 2,882,000

Nagasaki - 1,541,000

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), May 27, 1999.

...make that a short 54 years ago...

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), May 27, 1999.

Interesting thought Blue.

CNN ratings would skyrocket. Advertising rates and revenues would increase. Talk shows ratings would increase (revenues again) and the president and congress could get extensive TV "face time." Al Gore could claim credit for it. The Joint Chiefs could demand more funding. The defense industry would start 'booming' again. The CIA and NSA could demand more funding. The president, who once stated that he would have loved to have been president during WWII, would have a wonderful opportunity to "react." It would be just like watching a Hollywood blockbuster - it's only a bunch of 'them' anyway. It's not like they're real people like 'us.'

The pundits and psychologists could get more TV time. "How do you feel>/i>about nuclear detonations?" Thousands of books could be written and on the shelves within a month. There is nothing like a good, old-fashioned war to get the global economy back on track. It's better than any little blue pill. This is an opportunity. It's perfect. They don't have enough nukes between the two of them to keep it up for long. Just long enough to satisfy our thirst for excitement. The UN could pass a resolution. Clinton could threaten to nuke them both unless they stop nuking each other (Kosovo logic).

-- PNG (png@gol.com), May 27, 1999.

Boom

-- PNG (png@gol.com), May 27, 1999.

Nabi Davidson said,

We nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki a short 44 years ago. Know what the current populations of those cities are? Hiroshima - 2,882,000 Nagasaki - 1,541,000

Those Japanese really breed like jackrabbits, don't they?

-- FaFu (annoyed@fff.com), May 27, 1999.

There may be an aspect to this conflict that is not immediately obvious. Consider this: Russia and China are on the verge of signing a economic/military pact designed to thwart US hegemony. The skyways between Beijing and Moscow have been filled with envoys who are flanging up the agreement. A few days ago a most interesting development surfaced; Russia is now urging India to join Russia and China in their alliance. However, India has a longstanding and deep distrust of China. This distrust is partially based upon China's friendship with Pakistan.

It is my suspicion that India instigated this little tiff in order to test China's sincerity. I think that it is India's intention to closely monitor China's statements and actions in regards to this conflict. If China does not vigorously come to the aid of their old ally, Pakistan, then India will consider the waters safe to join in the anti-US pact. On the other hand, if China viciously condemns India's attack then India will graciously back away from the Russia/ China alliance.

In the last couple of days China has shown remarkable and uncharacteristic restraint in its expressions about the conflict. If my suspicions are correct then the US soon will be faced with a Russia/China/India alliance intent upon blunting US dominance in the world.

Also, once India has formed an opinion about China then this little conflict should fade into history.

-- No No (nono@nogo.com), May 27, 1999.

Hhhmmmmmmm.... Interesting take on the situation, No No. With India in the mix, the anti-US gang would have about 40% of the world's population on their side. Not to mention all those Russian nukes...

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), May 27, 1999.

Blue H,

"I think Chernobyl helped end the cold war by putting a reality-based fear of homeland nuke devastation into the Soviet leaders."

The cold war never ended.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 27, 1999.

As regards alliances - check out this thread - comments please...

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000sjz

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 27, 1999.

Andy,

That lineup's a little hard to swallow, but I'll try to find time to listen to the program and see what the guy has to say. Thanks for the tip.

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), May 28, 1999.

Nabi,

me too - I was prety incredulous last night - but do check it out.

you can see how India/Pakistan will ally themselves...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 28, 1999.