I've started a web page to address my progress toward a decision whether to terminate my existence, if the darker y2k predictions come to light. I know this is an ugly idea for some, but for many of us it is the best option (not only for ourselves, but for the overburdened support systems). I'd appreciate anyone with solid information contacting me regarding the issue.

Thanks, Vera http://members.xoom.com/veracrichton/index.html

-- Vera Crichton (crichton@digicron.com), May 26, 1999

Answers

Vera,

Judging your reply post to me, you don't want help nor "solid information", you want attention.

Rick, someone who has been there, witnessed it, and did not do that.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), May 26, 1999.

I'm not after "attention", Rick, I need a lot of information. In fact, I'm not using my own name for this very reason.

If you need to believe that, though, go ahead.

-- Vera Crichton (crichton@digicron.com), May 26, 1999.

Vera,

I'll bite again. Bottom line, if the only thing worthy of keeping you interested in life is our current "system" (techno toys, jit delivery, here i am entertain me), it's going to be a "long row to hoe" to bring you back.

Did you ever walk near a corn field in july and smell it. Soft summer sun. The interconectivety, the beutty of real life. A true smile of freindship. See a person doing honest labor in the distance. If you please open your consience to the inner beutty of our planet and it's cohabitators, thousands of people working every day of their lives for someone else, the child that can't walk, the dredges of our society, the engineer who comes up with a new prostetic........I can go on and on. Don't tell me the taste of a fresh strawberry is not real. Tell me what is real to you. I can tell you what is real to me.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), May 26, 1999.

Vera is, IMHO a troll. She is trying to get people to feel sorry for her, please, someone hand her a shotgun and remind her to " do it " on a plastic sheet ( that way her blood, guts and brain matter won't stain the carpet ) She also might want to piss and shit before she kills herself so they won't find it in her pants, let's face it, it will stink

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 26, 1999.

Vera,

If you are considering suicide, please call your local Crisis Clinic and discuss your thoughts and plans with them. They will take you seriously and are trained to help you work through your concerns. If you are not considering suicide and are simply trolling, call your local Crisis Clinic anyway and talk to them about what is happening in your life that would lead you to pose these serious thoughts on a website bulletin board. They can offer you one to one caring, attention and assistance.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), May 26, 1999.

Can anybody access her page?? I can't..

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), May 26, 1999.

R,

It works, so what?

If she is so bent on killind herself over the lose of her TV and phone, look at it as evolution in action. She is a waste of space now, what use would she be IF there is a problem?

I've worked on suicide hot lines. Some you can help, and some you can't. It's a fact of life. Feeling sorry for her just feads her problem, If she wants to be found dead with shit in her pants, let her, Give her a gun and and release her ( don't forget to spread the plastic ) Did I mention how the eyes bug out?

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 26, 1999.

I don't know if you're serious or if you're trolling. That's the nature of communication between strangers via bits over miles of wire.

What I do know is that there are people in the predicament you describe, and what they need is hope, and not a rationale to kill themselves.

Let me tell you a little story. It's a true story, and it happened to me recently. You may have read it already on Usenet in csy2k.

I almost died due to severe bleeding a week after I had some precancerous polyps removed. I was losing astronomical amounts of blood, and the doctors put me in the critical care unit. They wanted me to agree to take transfusions, and I didn't want to. I told them I did not want the risk, that I was aware of the many diseases that were transmissible by blood, and that could *not* be screened out before the donor developed antibodies.

They kept leaning on me to take transfusions. I finally said that *if* I was on the brink of death, and was going to die, beyond question, unless I had a transfusion, I'd take the blood, but absolutely not unless I was in that dire a circumstance.

After several days in the hospital, a doctor and two nurses woke me up at about 4 AM to tell me that they thought I'd be dead in a few hours if I didn't take a transfusion. I told them I didn't feel like I was on the brink of death, and would discuss it with them in an hour and a half when they took the next blood count.

When they took that blood, it was very low, but stable. I said I wanted to wait some more.

About an hour later, my bleeding stopped.

Can you imagine how I'd have felt -- and would *still* be feeling -- had I succombed to the fear and taken the transfusion, only to stop bleeding an hour later?

You don't know what life brings. You don't know that things will be as bad as you fear.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), May 26, 1999.

Yes, I do consider myself to be "wasted space" in such a situation. If I would be able to be of service in the event of a widespread y2k breakdown, I might well stick around to help family and friends.

I find it interesting that, having come "out of the closet" to honestly request information, I've been called names and accused of being less than honest.

I assure the fellow who made the remarks about blood and shit, I've actually made arrangements (in the event I do this -- I'm nowhere NEAR that point yet) for a fairly large "body bag", if I choose the gun method. Again, IF I do this, I'll dispatch myself, and the cleanup should be largely negligible since I've arranged for my body to be cremated.

If you need to think I'm a troll or whatever you need to think, then so be it. I know I'm not and that's all that matters.

Rick, don't worry, I'm not suicidal, and I'm hoping to stick around for another 50 years unless it seems likely that a Yourdon or North scenario is likely. I won't make this decision until late November, if at all.

-- Vera Crichton (crichton@digicron.com), May 26, 1999.

Luckily, I've never been suicidal. I've been down in the black bog a few times, but not that far. I do know one thing. If I'm ever suicidal this forum is the last place I'll come for advice. I don't think Vera is suicidal or trying to get attention. I think she was asking for honest information. Leslie was the only person that considered treating her like a human being.

One thing that pisses me off, when in the past I've been down in the dumps, is pollys spreading either the happy face, sunshine, corn field scenario. The "piss and shit in your pants" crap has never happened but it's not too good for much of anything.

I don't think she's a troll. I don't think she is suicidal, and she said she wasn't. I don't think she is seeking attention. She certainly doesn't sound like that to me. If you think she is, then just don't answer her. If a regular on this site came up with something like that, would they be treated that shabby? I think she is just considering the possibility that things just might get to the point where nothing could be done to help anyone, or herself, or she would be afraid to try, or she felt like was more of a problem than a solution, or other reasons that I haven't thought of. Is that too difficult to understand?

Quit labeling everyone a damn troll that diagrees with you, or comes up with something that offends you, or that you've never considered. We don't all think alike.

Vera I have no intention of doing that either. But I do understand what you are talking about.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 26, 1999.

Ron's the second paragraph of your post was considerate. Sorry I forgot to include you with Leslie.

I also doubt that anyone would consider killing ourselves over the loss of a TV or phone.

-- gilda (jes@listbot.com), May 26, 1999.

Vera:

I get the impression that you are feeling isolated in dealing with y2k alone - is this correct? If you are alone, perhaps you could look into finding other like-minded people who are preparing for y2k - perhaps a church group? The prospect of facing a crisis alone, in my opinion, would make a person feel very overwhelmed and afraid. My personal opinion is that, even if y2k is TEOTWAWKI, the "new world" that we will be facing will eventually be a better one - it may take time, but it will get better. So, try looking into getting involved with a like-minded group so you won't feel so isolated - let us hear back from you. Good luck!

-- Scarlett (creolady@aol.com), May 26, 1999.

Nibble, nibble, nibble.

I gather you came from debunker, if so that is why people assume that you are a troll due to the perception that people over at debunker are not sincere, do not have integrity, and wish to troll this forum.

You stated, "If I would be able to be of service in the event of a widespread y2k breakdown, I might well stick around to help family and friends." If this is a true statement go to http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger/surv/surv.htm and then read and learn the files there (or any of a dozen other such sites). However then you say, "I'm not suicidal, and I'm hoping to stick around for another 50 years unless it seems likely that a Yourdon or North scenario is likely." which is wildly inconsistant with the other statement. [insert refrain from the song, Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind] If you are a troll, you are not doing a very good job of it and need to study the methods of Decker, Poole, et al to qualify as even an aprentice troll.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), May 26, 1999.

Vera, I feel that all life is valueable, and it should not be wasted. You are alive so that you can LIVE. Suicide is the way out for cowards. Even if TSHTF, I will not take the easy way out. I have had many health problems in my lfe, such as a learning disability, and problems with my ears(I had to have tubes put in as a child), and other difficulties, but I did not kill myself, and nor do I plan to. The ONLY execption to this is that there was a biological/nuclear attack and I have a leathal dose of radiation, or a terminal virus, and I'm dying slowly in agony. THAT'S IT!! And possibly not even then... Don't give up, no matter what curves life throws us, death is not the answer! Life is hard at times, but thats what we get for disobeying God!(In the Garden of Eden.)

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), May 26, 1999.

Vera, if that's what you want to do, far be it from me or anyone else to stop you. I've read your posts and you are bound and determined that this is the way you want to handle (or not handle) Y2K.

The debunkers are already blaming Ed and other Y2K "extremists" for the suicide wishes prompted by your long-term depression, and say that there is one suicide already to lay at the doomers' door. Since there's nothing I or anyone can say to dissuade you from your chosen course, I'd appreciate it if you would explain to the debunkers that suicide is often a part of clinical depression and ANY trigger will set it off, whether it be Y2K, the death of a favorite relative, or even a gray day.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 26, 1999.

Vera, life is a school, and you can't expect the schoolhouse to be as comfy as home now can you ? But that's no reason to play hooky.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), May 26, 1999.

Hi Vera,

You made an interesting statement in your last post..."I won't make this decision until late November, if at all. "

Two things, #1) You won't, nor will anyone else know what the outcome of the rollover is in November. Infact, we probably won't know for a year or more. So why don't you put off this thought until say....November 2000 or even 2001. #2) I'm well versed in depression and do not make light of it. By your posts, I'd say that you are clinically depressed, and its very difficult to pull yourself out of this type of spiral without help. May I be so bold as to recommend that you get in touch immediately with a professional and follow their advice, be it therapy, medication or both.

I'll be thinking of you and hope that you make a least this one positive step in your life right now.

Cary Mc from Tx

-- Cary Mc from Tx (Caretha@compuserve.com), May 26, 1999.

Naturally it is tempting to think one has the control to always consider the last drastic "Out." Studies have shown that sometimes terminally ill persons feel better and more in control of living if they have a lethal prescription at the ready. Even great saints have thought about suicide, briefly, but always come to alternative solutions in LIVING.

Vera, the testimony of all the saints and sages is that we must continue struggling and doing our best until our natural time comes, which is soon enough in the large scheme of things. I sympathize with your thoughts, and encourage you to honestly explore your feelings and their core motivations, WITHOUT dwelling on actually carrying out or thinking about committing the act.

It is normal and natural to want out of this world, especially when there are indications of upheaval and uncertainty, and when bad times become exhausting. However, the amazing secret of life is, God has built into this world and our souls a divinely ordained ESCAPE HATCH!
Yes, the spiritually advanced can come and go at will, in Bliss, while maintaining impeccable energetic service to the world. There is a scientific way, requiring discipline, devotion, persistence -- but there IS a tried and true Way.

Seek and ye shall find ... pray to God with all the might and fervor and strength of your soul ... He will respond.

"I protest by our rejoicing which I have in Christ, I die daily ."

St. Paul, I Corinthians 15:31

It can be done by the adept within the fullness of LIFE, daily, many times per day, sustained, as much as one desires, as much as God allows! He knows, He implanted the legitimate desire, the soul craving freedom, He provides a Way, He is all-merciful! And He expects us to use all our intelligence, reason, powers of discovery, and seek out and find and hold onto His Bliss!

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx x

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), May 26, 1999.

Why shouldn't suicide be considered as a last resort option? I don't think things are going to get that bad, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility. What if one gets a horrible disease and there is no medical care or pain killers available? What if there is a biological weapons attack against the US and one is infected and has no hope of survival?

I'm not advocating suicide, but I wouldn't rule it out under the most extreme circumstances.

I haven't been able to access the website, but I'll try again later.

-- Dave (dannco@hotmail.com), May 26, 1999.

Reposting my answer to the other suicide thread and agreeing with Old Git that it doesn't take Y2K to make a clinically depressed person want to/consider committing suicide.

Am more than willing to help other depressed people, but would not even CONSIDER helping anyone "take a powder."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "I have been diagnosed and medicated for clinical depression for almost three years now. This forum (and others) has been one of my saving graces, with all the "friends" I have come to know, even though I don't post often. Clinical depression (along with my panic attack/anxiety disorder) is indeed a medical problem. Just as Old Git has to find pharmaceutical options, so do I.

The last thing I would ever consider doing, however, is removing myself from this earth before my God-designated time. I have 6 children and a husband to care for. It is not for me to decide when I am to die.

This post is not to trivialize clinical depression in any way. I have experienced it's crushing weight which makes it hard even to get out of bed sometimes. The medication keeps me humming along on a fairly even keel, however. Living in the Midwest, the biggest challenge is those long winter days.

St John's Wort seems to be the best option, should my meds become unavailable. Stocking up on that. Light therapy helps too...will be reminding myself that ANY natural daylight helps more than artificial light. No caffeine, regular sleep....many things are available to help.

Give in? NEVER!!! Life is too precious, and so is my family. They need me. And I love them.

Preparation HELPS.....significantly reduces the anxiety/depression/"I'm doomed" feeling...in all aspects, not just Y2K.

I am blessed to have recourse to a strong, faith filled group of like minded friends, GIs and DGIs. This also helps, no matter what the circumstances.

Just some thoughts."

Blessings...Mercy

-- Mercy (DivinMercy@aol.com), May 26, 1999.

'If I would be able to be of service in the event of a widespread y2k breakdown, I might well stick around to help family and friends.'

Let's make certain I understand you...you have family, you have friends, and you believe that you would consider sticking around if you could help them. On the other hand, if you can't be assured of some glorified role which gives you a one-up in-control position, then you have no sense of responsibility for the harm you do them if you commit suicide. You are willing to leave them in grief at a time when everyone in the family will need each other for support? Geez! Hostile and unloving is what I'd call it. Seek professional help whether you are for real or just trolling.

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), May 26, 1999.

Gilda and Ken, thank you for your support and for understanding my situation.

Sheila, I'm not judging you, so please don't judge me. I have no children or husband. My only "family" are people who understand and accept my decision. I would not do so under any other circumstances.

What I find amusing is that so many are not reading my words at all. They interpret me to say what I am not saying. I have been in many forums. I posted on debunker simply because I was reading it at the time, seeking some good news. I've posted a lot of other places, too.

That said, I'm going to not post here any longer. I honestly wasn't expecting hostility. I've setup my own forum. I respect your right to post and discuss in any fashion you choose, and wouldn't want to infringe on that.

My email address is above. Contact me there, if you wish.

Sorry for the problems, Love, v

-- Vera Crichton (crichton@digicron.com), May 26, 1999.

Vera, not judging you, just stating the facts of how suicide affects the survivors. It is the same as if any other hostile act had been perpetrated upon them. If you have learned anything from studying the Y2K phenomena, it should have been how interrelated the world is. One person who holds each moment of life as a precious gift, will make life more precious for all of those around her.

I spent time this week with a great bunch of folks at the Y2K Texas BBQ meeting. One of the ladies has some serious physical problems that mean for her that she will be unable to do a lot of heavy work ... but guess what? she is a master at finding what she can do. I only hope those of my own household will be so resourceful and courageous when the chips are down.

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), May 26, 1999.

Hi Shelia,

You are so right....we need to make a difference in any way we can. My fear of Y2k are for those who might die needlessly for whatever reasons. Call me a wuss, but I believe the needless death, be it suicide or anything else, of even one person, diminishes us all.

-- Cary Mc from Tx (Caretha@compuserve.com), May 26, 1999.

Vera,

Suicide is an act of self-hatred. Killing oneself is killing and it leaves in it's wake a legacy of pain on the part of everyone who cares about you or had heard about you. You would not be posting on any website if you were not reaching out to others. Reaching out to others is good. But before you act, do call the Crisis Clinic and get support and perspective from people who understand suicide. They care.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), May 26, 1999.