Apache Helicopters 'Will Never Fly On Combat Missions In Kosovo'

By Tim Butcher Defence Correspondent

www.telegraph.co.uk 5-22-99

The US Apache attack helicopter, promoted as the most potent weapon in America's airborne arsenal, will never fly on combat missions in Kosovo because it cannot cope with the region's mountains, defence sources said yesterday.

The aircraft, deployed to Albania by the Pentagon with great fanfare as the "silver bullet" to end to the Kosovo crisis, is militarily redundant because of the 10,000ft mountains. Only by fitting additional fuel pods could it negotiate such obstacles, and that would reduce its weapons payload and its capability to defend itself.

Defence sources said the problem meant that the Apache will never be ordered into Kosovo on offensive operations against Serb positions, contradicting the PR campaign that promoted the machines as a decisive weapon for the Balkan crisis. It confirms what many experts have suspected for a long time; the deployment of the Apache was intended only as a coercive gesture to threaten attacks on Serb positions but never actually carry them out.

Meanwhile Nato admitted further errors in its air assault with the Indian, Swiss, Israeli, Pakistani and Hungarian embassies in Belgrade all suffering slight damage from errant bombs. While there was no repeat of the huge blunder two weeks ago when Nato mistakenly bombed the Chinese embassy, Washington was forced to issue a round of official apologies starting with one directed to the Swiss government.

In Kosovo the Serb-controlled media reported that a bomb hit a prison, killing 19 people including the deputy governor and some inmates. Other prisoners were able to escape when the perimeter wall was breached. Most of the inmates were described as "terrorists", the Serbs description of members of the Kosovo Liberation Army. Nato admitted it bombed the prison, but said it was a military target.

Problems with the Apache were confirmed after new fuel pods were seen being fitted to the stubby wing pylons normally used to carry the helicopter's 16 Hellfire missiles. By fitting the fuel pods at least half of the missiles have to be sacrificed.

American army technicians at the Rinas airfield, 15 miles west of Tirana, where the Apaches are based, were trying to get around the problem caused by the mountains that form the Kosovo-Albanian border. The range of the Apache is normally about 400 miles but this drops to about 100 miles if the helicopter has to climb to substantial heights.

The border is so mountainous along its entire length that there is no alternative other than to use more fuel to allow the Apaches to cross, even if they were based near the frontier. The fuel restriction is the latest problem to befall the Apaches, which were ordered to the Balkans amid a wave of publicity in March. Some military planners regarded them as the "silver bullet" that would compensate for the inadequacies of Nato's air campaign which was unable to engage effectively the Serb army in Kosovo.

The Apache has a record from the 1991 Gulf war of being deadly against tanks, armoured troop carriers and bunker positions in open country although the topography of the Balkans with its wooded valleys exposes it to ground fire.

Gen Sir Charles Guthrie, the Chief of the Defence Staff, emphasised the long range of the Apache at a Ministry of Defence briefing when their deployment was first announced. It took weeks for the 24 Apaches to deploy to Albania, and when they finally arrived they found a muddy muddle at Rinas airfield, which was cluttered with US troops, aid workers and Albanian personnel.

Two Apaches crashed on exercise, killing two crew members. Then the Pentagon announced it was not prepared to hand over the command of the Apaches to Nato.

Elsewhere, Nato sources said bad weather hampered Operation Allied Force over Yugoslavia although some fixed-wing aircraft were able to carry out their missions.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 23, 1999

Answers

Andy, when I read that report in the paper yesterday I immediately thought of the imaginary British submarine in the early part of the Falklands War. You remember, right at the beginning MOD put out the word that they had a submarine in the area of the Falklands and that report was later admitted to be a ruse to scare Argentinan military ships away from the area. I thought perhaps someone concluded it might be worth the intimidation value to send the Apaches, especially in view of the damage they inflicted during the Gulf War.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 23, 1999.

Sounds plausible Old Git but it's a high price to pay, two crashes, loss of morale, grunts will not be happy that they are not going to get any low level air support - plus it took ages to get them over there, repeated foul-ups all along the way. Incredible.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 23, 1999.

Yup, forgot to mention length of time it took, delays--that too is explained if you think along the lines of an intimidation bluff. I couldn't believe it took three weeks to get the things over there, knowing a little bit about military logistics, thought that smelled to high heaven. But if you're playing poker. . . I believe the conventional wisdom on the training crashes is they would have happened with or without deployment. I can't confirm with my In-House Aviation Expert--Sweetie's still asleep--but that's my recollection when the subject was being discussed.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 23, 1999.

Then there is this website that proports that the apaches were "hit with losses" on the ground and are not ready for combat

http://www2.cybercities.com/v/venik/aviation/rinasattack01.htm

SNIP____________________________

According to some sources, there might have been two more Yugoslavian aircraft participating in this attack. These two aircraft flew the mission from a different airbase (in Pristina, according to some information I have) and joined the two G-4s from the Golubovci base. Up to 12 Apaches were damaged or destroyed, as well as some NATO transport planes. Two of the Yugoslavian planes might have been hit by NATO SAMs, but the pilots survived and have either ejected of crash-landed their planes. I have information that some details of this attack were reported by an Italian television news channel. I am still looking for more information about this attack and will update this page as soon as any more substantial details become available.

_____________________________ENDSNIP

I read a follow up on AP this week that confirmed that the Serb aircraft were operating in Albainian Air space on a sporatic basis..

Makes one wonder who has control of the SPIN....

Keep the faith.....Helium

-- helium (heliumavid@yahoo.com), May 23, 1999.

German Paper Says Lost US Apache Was Actually Shot Down

From Bob Djurdjevic FROM PHOENIX, ARIZONA

The Special Truth in Media Global Watch Bulletins on NATO's war on Serbia,

such as the one enclosed below, can also be accessed at our Web site: www.truthinmedia.org which is being updated throughout the day. Issue S99-88, Day 62

May 24, 1999

HAMBURG, May 24 - Remember the ill-fated Apache helicopter which crashed in Albania on May 5, killing two American pilots, and casting a pall on Bill Clinton's and Madeleine Albright's visit to the NATO headquarters in Brussels? The U.S. military spokesperson in Germany told Reuters at the time that the aircraft was on a training mission when it crashed. He speculated the Apache may have hit a power line.

Commander Tom van Leunen, spokesman for the U.S. European command in Stuttgart, Germany, said the crash occurred in darkness some 50 miles north of Tirana. Two pilots became the first admitted casualties suffered by NATO. Later on, the official line from the "lie and deny" Washington-Brussels crowd was that the Apache helicopter crashed due to either mechanical or human errors.

It didn't. It was probably shot down by the Yugoslav anti-aircraft defenses, according to a May 23 report in Germany's "Welt am Sonntag" ("World on Sunday") alleged. Citing a "secret report" issued by NATO experts, the German paper said the Apache exploded in the air and went down in a ball of fire. Which is the main reason the NATO experts had eliminated the mechanical or human errors as the cause. -- - TiM Ed.: The above "Welt am Sonntag" story rounds out our reports about the Apaches being the "Flying Coffins" (S99-81, Day 55, Item 1, May 17) and being grounded by mountains (S99-86, Day 60, Item 4, May 22).

Now we know why the Washington brass got cold feet about using the Pentagon's "fearsome," "pride and joy" high-tech weapon against the Serbs in Kosovo. "Whew... thank God," must have been the response by the Apaches' pilots and crews, used to turkey shoots in Iraq.

The timing of this shoot-down, if that's what it was, was also conspicuous. Did the Yugoslav military want to deliver a message to Bill Clinton and his Halfbright armchair bomber, as they landed for a round of NATO briefings in Brussels on May 5?

If so, it appears the message was heard. And heeded. The Apaches are now grounded. Not by mountains, as the British media tried to spin the story. ---------------

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 27, 1999.

Andy,

actually, considering where and when the Apache went down the mountains are much more probable than any other explanation...since they always fly in pairs, had one been shot down the wingman would have nailed whoever launched the SAM.

Altitude can be a real problem for attack helicopters - in Afghanistan the rebels managed to knock down Soviet attack helicopters by *dropping* boulders on them, 'cause on hot days (heat causing thinner air causing less lift) the helicopters couldn't get up to the mountain peaks and had to follow valleys and passes to get around...

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 27, 1999.