Is Y2K the biggest crock of feces since HIV?

-- Peter Hughes (leonine@redshift.com), May 22, 1999

Answers

you think hiv is a crock?are you an idiot?wait don't answer!we already know!never met someone who died of aids so it doesn't exist,right?Brazil is a crock,right?or have you been there?get off this board and do some research,your ignorance makes me sad.sheesh.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), May 22, 1999.

both HIV and y2k are real. I think the point is, it wasn't long ago that ALL projections were that HIV would reach epidemic levels. Instead, people adapted fairly well, medical treatements have been developed that have helped some, unsafe practices became less common, and HIV incidence diminished. A lot of adjustments have been made, and the epidemic didn't happen.

If y2k kills as many as HIV has, in a few years there will be some claiming how awful it was, and others relieved that it wasn't that bad after all. The real world is never black and white.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 22, 1999.

Tell that to the folks in Africa Flint.

-- a (a@a.a), May 22, 1999.

WARNING: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

-- Jack Hannah (bridge@keeper.com), May 22, 1999.

The real question is does HIV cause an alleged disease commonly known as AIDS ?

The popular media has parroted this unproven notion as 'fact' for so long now that few of us even question the underlying assumption which if untrue should change the debate completely.

But by all means take a look at these sites and decide for yourself:

http://www.duesberg.com

http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/controversy.htm

-- Yan (no@no.no), May 22, 1999.

ask the doc that injected himself with HIV to prove it didn't cause AIDs. he died of AIDs. what a coincedence.

-- (yan@no.brainer), May 22, 1999.

Flint,

Greetings. I never expected to see you read something meaningful into an antagonistic remark.

Y2K is real. The remark about AIDS. Well, the nimrod Hughes is entitled to an Opinion. It's a shame the guy isn't in touch with reality.

Such a lack of compassion.

You'll get your kermuffins.(spelling Old Git? I get it right?)

Flint, stick to the reasonable posts. Then perhaps thats asking too much. *sigh*

Father

-- Thomas G. Hale (hale.t@att.net), May 22, 1999.

Some people (dare I say Gary North?) had projected the rate of increase of cases of HIV over a linear equation in the early days, and panicked a lot of people by claiming TEOTWAWKI was here. Didn't happen that way. In fact, the susceptible pool caught it rather quickly, and it has been staying there for the most part ever since. The level of misinformation about the disease is astounding - for example, it is a blood transmitted disease nearly but not quite exclusively - for instance - the chance of a man catching the disease from a woman via transmission during normal intercourse is very small - less than 1 per thousand.

Transmission in Africa, BTW, seems to follow the same vector as the EBOLA virus, another blood borne disease. A group of people sleeping together in one room, may inadvertently bring open sores from insect bites or scratches in contact with one another during sleep, and pass along the disease as a result.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), May 22, 1999.

Paul Davis:

FYI --- it was recently reported there are 2,500,000 DEATHS a year by aids. And it is increasing. So we are supposed to be comforted?

The crisis from AIDS is still on its way.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), May 22, 1999.

Gents,

Jack Hannah nailed it. Posts that serve only to provide subsequent chuckles to the Hugheses don't serve us.

ps: Flint, it IS epidemic. Glad I'm not being born Thai today.

-- Carlos Mueller (riffraff1@cybertime.net), May 22, 1999.

I did the aids bike ride from san francisco to LA a couple of years ago and got to talk to a lot of folks from all walks of life about the disease. Gary North was wrong with his extrapolations, but he may NOT be wrong in the long run - there is evidence that mutations of HIV are occurring and that it may even be able to be passed on via insect bites - mosquitos for example.

If you want to hear the truth about aids and HIV, rather than media spin, search out Dr. Lorraine Day's web site, she is also on www.sightings.com fairly regularly (look in the archives).

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 22, 1999.

My brother-in-law contracted HIV in 1986. He died in 1990. He was killed by experimental drugs IMHO. The geniuses who are running NIH are no closer to a cure thru drugs than they were 17 years ago, and they won't be 17 years from now. You cannot enhance your immune system thru drug use. However,you can maintain your health thru natural , non-toxic therapies, ie, oxygen, intraveneos and oral vitamin, detox, and many other holistic therapies. There are people who are living 20 years (yes in good health with HIV. This country needs to wake up and realize that we are being farmed by the drug companies.

-- KoFE (you're@notforgotten.Mike), May 22, 1999.

There are people who are infected with HIV that have not gotten AIDS after many years, and there are people who have dided of something that mirrors the clinical diagnosis of AIDS that had no HIV in their systems.

Something much bigger that a monkey virus is at work here. It is my opinion, bases on research I've done, that AIDS was engineered in the U.S. at one of the military's biological weapons centers, most likely Ft. Detrick, Maryland, in the early 1970's, and that it was introduced into Africa in 1977 by tagging along in the WHO's smallpox vaccination program. In 1979, ads appeared in major dailys in NY and SF asking for "sexually active gay men" to take part in an influenza vaccination program - shortly thereafter AIDS became a household word.

The people who run the world decided long ago that it cannot be effectively ruled or supported with such a huge populace as now exists. They are intent on depopulation, and they are following through on this by means of war and disease.

-- . (.@...), May 22, 1999.

Re: --,(,@...)

Debunkers is right. We got some serious paranoia over here.

-- (donttuchme@my.spot), May 22, 1999.

First- - by the standard definition of epidemic, HIV/AIDS qualifies.

Second - - If HIV was created in 1977 (at what Natick Lab) by US army, how do you explain the presence in blood samples from the 2950's and sixty's??

Third - - The studies on long term survival of HIV/AIDS patients has identified only ONE common data element in the survival. Attitude! A truly UP attitude has been shown as the only common data element in the treatment regimen or life of the 300-500 long term survivors studied. we are talking about truly up attitude, not a false front.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), May 22, 1999.

Hey Yan

WHAT HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH Y2K!!!??!?!

Heh Heh Heh :)

-- a (a@a.a), May 22, 1999.

Chuck, don't you think that any agencies intent on dispersing a deadly disease into the population would do their best to cover their tracks, including placing pre-dated samples etc. where they would eventually be "discovered"?

Here's a little item that should prompt you to do some research of your own.

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 1970

United States Senate Library

HEARINGS before a SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Ninety-First Congress

First Session

Subcommittee on Department of Defense

George H. Mahon, Texas, Chairman

Robert L.F. Sikes, Florida, Glenard P. Lipscomb, California

Jamie D. Whitten, Mississippi William E. Minshall, Ohio

George W. Andrews, Alabama, John J. Rhodes, Arizona

Daniel J. Flood, Pennsylvania Glenn R. Davis, Wisconsin

John M. Slack, West Virginia, Joseph P. Addabbo, New York

Frank E. Evans, Colorado

Temporarily assigned H.B. 15090

PART 5

RESEARCH, DEVELOPMENT, TEST, AND EVALUATION

Department of the Army

Statement of Director, Advanced Research Project Agency

Statement of Director, Defense Research and Engineering

__________

Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1969

UNITED STATES SENATE LIBRARY

129

TUESDAY, JULY 1, 1969

SYNTHETIC BIOLOGICAL AGENTS

There are two things about the biological agent field I would like to mention. One is the possibility of technological surprise. Molecular biology is a field that is advancing very rapidly and eminent biologists believe that within a period of 5 to 10 years it would be possible to produce a synthetic biological agent, an agent that does not naturally exist and for which no natural immunity could have been acquired.

MR. SIKES. Are we doing any work in that field?

DR. MACARTHUR. We are not.

MR. SIKES. Why not? Lack of money or lack of interest?

DR. MACARTHUR. Certainly not lack of interest.

MR. SIKES. Would you provide for our records information on what would be required, what the advantages of such a program would be. The time and the cost involved?

DR. MACARTHUR. We will be very happy to. The information follows:

The dramatic progress being made in the field of molecular biology led us to investigate the relevance of this field of science to biological warfare. A small group of experts considered this matter and provided the following observations:

1. All biological agents up the the present time are representitives of naturally occurring disease, and are thus known by scientists throughout the world. They are easily available to qualified scientists for research, either for offensive or defensive purposes.

2. Within the next 5 to 10 years, it would probably be possible to make a new infective microorganism which could differ in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon when we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease.

3. A research program to explore the feasibility of this could be completed in approximately 5 years at a total cost of $10 million.

4. It would be very difficult to establish such a program. Molecular biology is a relatively new science. There are not many highly competent scientisis in the field., almost all are in university laboratories, and they are generally adequately supported from sources other than DOD. However, it was considered possible to initiate an adequate program through the National Academy of sciences - National Research Council (NAS-NRC, and tentative plans were made to initiate the program. However decreasing funds in CB, growing criticism of the CB program., and our reluctance to involve the NAS NRC in such a controversial endeavor have led us to postpone it for the past 2 years.

It is a highly controversial issue and there are many who believe such research should not be undertaked lest it lead to yet another method of massive killing of large populations. On the other hand, without the sure scientific knowledge that such a weapon is possible, and an understanding of the ways it could be done. there is little that can be done to devise defensive measures. Should an enemy develop it there is little doubt that this is an important area of potential military technological inferiority in which there is no adequate research program.

-- . (.@...), May 22, 1999.

HIV a crock? Tell that to my old neighbor. His two oldest sons are dead and gone via HIV/AIDS.

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), May 23, 1999.

Err - apparently some folks are ticked (you should see my mailbox) because I said what I said earlier. Well facts are facts, and it is a fact that early naive projections of HIV spread in the 80's gave stupid figures like 90% of the population infected before the year 2000, with 50 million deaths by AIDS in the US by now. DID NOT HAPPEN. WHAT MORE CAN I SAY!

Gary North was big time active in spreading bad information and fear. If you want his old stuff put up here, I might be able to find someone who has it still. But it was BS then and BS now. As bad as Paul Ehrlich and the Population Bomb - failed in his predictions of world famine by 1975 utterly.

As for the EBOLA thing - that transmission means for EBOLA was established by WHO, not me. And I am hardly the originator of the speculation that AIDS can follow the same vector.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), May 23, 1999.

No disease wipes out everyone. Each of us is an individual, with similiar, but different (individual) immune systems.

A lot of people has died of AIDS, but many have not. Same with the Indians (native Americans) and smallpox. It's "evolution in action."

People will survive Y2K. It may be most, or naybe only only mountain men and the women they can entice or cart off.

-- A (A@AisA.com), May 23, 1999.