Was having a chat with several co-workers this morning, and Y2K came up (I didn't mention it). Two of them are ardent animal lovers, they go around picking up strays, volunteering at the local animal shelter, you get the picture. Regarding food for their pets, here's about how the conversation went:

#1: "I'll have to put away extra Eukanaba (sp?) for my three dogs, and canned food for the cats. I hope a week's worth is enough."

#2: "Well, my animals are welcome to my food, even if I didn't have enough."

#1: "If things get real bad, I couldn't stand to see them go hungry. Guess I'd have to steal food from my neighbors, if it came to that."

#2: "Heck, if my neighbors didn't make it, I'd dice them up and feed them to my dogs."

#1: "Me too!"

Much unpleasant laughter between these two ensued.

I've worked with these two for some time, and while they appear normal in other respects, they seem to have an unnatural prejudice against humans in favor of animals - this isn't the only time they've made similar comments, but it was the most unsettling. I've noticed that more and more people are growing awfully (and to my mind, disturbingly) attached to their pets, and have developed a type of "screw people, I'd rather have an animal companion" attitude. I wonder how these folks will fare come Y2K.

-- . (.@...), May 22, 1999

Answers

--.

They sound like most of the animal rights activists I've encountered over the years. If they are, don't underestimate them and their ability to prevail over hardship. They will always put animals before humans...including you. Give them a wide berth.

.-.. .--.

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), May 22, 1999.

You know you're in Y2K trouble when:

When your neighbor casually speculates on how many tacos could be made from your cat, it causes you to salivate.

You know you're REALLY in Y2K trouble when:

You decide you can't part with the cat, because she's been really good about sharing the birds and rodents she catches.

-- kitty (meow@taco.bell), May 22, 1999.

You know you're in Y2K trouble when:

you're positively *sick and tired* of eating rice and maggots and would give ANYTHING for a nice hot bowl of toasted crickets.

-- grubs (is@good.food), May 22, 1999.

You know you're in trouble when...

The pollys in de bunker start agreeing with you.

Luv them Cats

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 22, 1999.

CT,

you'll know your right when CEEPER asks for a catburger.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), May 22, 1999.

Was it Poole and Y2k pro?

-- Wiseguy (got@it.gov), May 22, 1999.

The pet issue (particularly dogs) is the reason why I stocked up on amunition. In the country, people sometimes dump their animals in the forest. Packs of stray dogs form and gather other dogs that are let out to run at night. We have had recent cases where a pack killed 6 calves over a period of a month and harassed cows so to the point that they dried up. In our county, any dog without a license tag can be shot if he even enters a livestock enclosure.

It sends a chill down my back to think of hungry dogs running in a pack where there are small children in the neighborhood. I do hope evry dog owner sufficiently prepares for his animal.

-- anon (anon@anon.com), May 22, 1999.

Carlos,

I doubt he will live so long.

WG,

cpr needs to adjust his meds

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 22, 1999.

Put down the guns and pitchforks for a moment. And yes, I'm an animal lover, but I think I can still tell when people are joking. "Unpleasant laughter, how about just laughter." Two of the biggest animal lovers I know are also the two nicest people I know.

I'd like to tell you about a man that did not love animals, my former fatther-in-law. It was nothing personal, but he just saw animals as one more "thing" to take care of, like the lawn mower, car, plumbing, etc. He owned a motel back before Super 8 and Ramada Inn. But when people asked if he allowed pets, he always said yes. When I asked him why, since he didn't like them,, he said, "I've never had a pet shine their shoes on the towels, or take the towels with them, or throw sanitary napkins down the toilet stool, bust the lamps, leave water running, and a dozen other things that people do. In fact most people that travel with pets have very well behaved pets.

We have provided for our pets, and are depending on them to alert us of problems, just as they do now. And our cats catch rats and mice in spite of being well fed. We never have to worry about our buckets being chewed through, because one of them sleeps in the basement.

And the roving packs I worry about, if it gets bad, are not dog packs.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 22, 1999.

Well, --, I think it was fairly predictable that Gilda and I would weigh in here. Taz too, where are ya, Taz? Blue Himalayan? And I know there are more of us who, yes, actually do prefer our pets to some people we know. (The neighbor to my right, for instance. . .!)

The Hungarian and I are also involved in animal rescue work. I started 46 years ago, so I'm not likely to change in the foreseeable future, Y2K or not. If it weren't for people like us, we all would be wading through packs of starving and diseased, unwanted pets. Just like most "personal property" in this country, pets are disposable items. When we change the wallpaper, we chuck out the pets because they don't match the new color scheme. Or they're "inconvenient."

Think about it: if a little more value were placed on pets, we wouldn't have this throwaway problem which, incidentally, costs even small cities hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars each year for collecting and killing unwanted animals. And if people thought a bit more highly of their pets, they just might value larger animals a bit more as well--like their fellow human beings. Some of them, anyway.

The Hungarian values pets because when she lived in Hungary it wasn't possible for the average person to own a pet. They were too expensive to care for and, anyway, frowned on as bourgeois fripperies. She was thrilled to come here and find pets available everywhere--until she realized the problems. And immediately set to work to help solve them.

As for how we'll come through Y2K, very well, thank you. I'm far more practical and unflappable than most of the people I've ever met. You have to be if you've ever gone trapping feral cats in low-income neighborhoods. Sweetie and I will be very happy and comforted by our pets, not to mention kept warm at night. They're funnier and more interesting than most TV shows anyway.

I wouldn't say I'm prejudiced against humans--jaundiced is a closer word. I forget who said it and exactly how, but the gist of it was, you can pick up a starving dog [or cat], take him home and care for him and he'll be the most faithful and constant companion you could wish for. But you can't do the same with a person.

And, yes, I've worked in the "helping professions" for people too, paid and volunteer, for many years, so I DO know what I'm talking about. Back to your co-workers--they saw a problem and knew they could help solve it with their particular backgrounds and interests. What problems do you help solve?

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 22, 1999.

please do not pick up starving animals,feed them first.I know many people who laugh at the suffering of humans,but will sob if you show them pictures of lab test animals.their logic being that animals won't wrong you maliciously.that's simple predudice.I usualy relate something that His Holiness the Dail Lama said.when asked if he hated the chinese for the terrible acts that they've wreaked on tibet.His Holiness replied that we should not lose sight that,if there are thousands of chinese committing terrible acts in tibet,then there must be millions in china committing acts of compassion and loving kindness.compassion is not compassion if it is reserved for those you love.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), May 22, 1999.

It sends a chill down my back to think of hungry dogs running in a pack where there are small children in the neighborhood. I do hope evry dog owner sufficiently prepares for his animal.

-- anon (anon@anon.com), May 22, 1999.

They won't. They don't already. A man 5 miles away from us has about 8 Rotweillers. 2 got out about 6 months ago. I had taken my 4 kids out for a late Sat. night treat. We got back about 11pm. It was dark and our auto flood light cast dim light down our long drive. The van doors were open and the kids were about to get out and my son said, "Hey, there's Barry" (a neighbors friendly dog). I said, "They don't let Barry run......" and about that time I saw the 2 Rots go past the open sliding door, circling the van. I practically KILLED myself lunging in the back to close the door - just in time. They were up on the van. Snarling and holding us hostage in our front yard for 2 hours. They staked out a patrol around the house. We have a fenced in front yard, so getting inside the gate was the trick (only about 6 feet away) - the front door, inside the fence was about 30 feet away. Had we not been close to the fence, we'd have been there all night. We watched the pattern of the dogs as they patroled. As soon as they went WAAAAYYYY to the back of the property, we made a mad dash inside the gate. They came tearing back to the fence where we had just run in, but we were well, up on the deck, practically in the house (well inside the fence).

Needless to say, I have had pure NIGHTMARES about my children being chewed up had we not seen them just as we were about to get out.

What will happen when these vicious animal owners can't provide for them anymore? They don't take care of them and ensure they are confined NOW.

I shudder. karen

-- karen (karen@karen.karen), May 22, 1999.

OldGit, that's a very telling statement: " Back to your co-workers--they saw a problem and knew they could help solve it with their particular backgrounds and interests. What problems do you help solve?"

By problem, do you mean how to feed their animals? By solve it, do you mean how they intend to steal food from their neighbors, or use the neighbors themselves as food?

I solved the problem of feeding my family AND pets in difficult times, thank you. I did it without considering resorting to theft or cannibalism. Of course, if you're like most irrational animal "lovers" I've had the misfortune to run into lately, theft or cannibalism wouldn't so much as cause you to blink, as long as your precious "friends are fed.

It's a sick world out there, and it's getting sicker.

-- . (.@...), May 22, 1999.

No, that is not what I meant. You said, "they go around picking up strays, volunteering at the local animal shelter. . ." THAT is what I meant. Obviously, you don't care to work with animals but I was curious about if you too volunteer a considerable part of your time to charitable work.

Your co-workers see a great deal of cruelty and indifference to suffering, and endure much anguish in the volunteer work they do. Just as emergency workers learn to use black and apparently callous humor to cover their pain, so do these co-workers of yours. You surely do not take them seriously when they speak of theft and cannibalism!

I do know a few irrational people, but most of them are not animal-lovers.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 22, 1999.

On the topic of roaming feral dog packs next year, I fully expect that they will be the #2 reason to own firearms and plenty of ammunition next year (#1 reason will be packs of roaming feral two-legged types...). When most people cannot feed their own family, let alone their pets, expect them to throw the animals out the door (as opposed to killing the animals and eating them, or simply killing them). I figure on additional millions of starving dogs and cats running around loose early next year. As time goes on, their numbers will decrease, but the survivors will be more dangerous as they learn from experience, and get better organized. Sad to say, lots of small children will probably fall prey to dogpacks for a while. Sadder to say, all of this applies to two-legged as well as four-legged formerly more-or-less domesticated types...

website www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), May 22, 1999.

I am astounded by the threads that appear on this forum.

First of all, that conversation which was overheard was probably all in jest. You people are looking for ANY excuse to bring down modern civilization. Read my fingers,

-- (Smartperson@ROTFL.com), May 22, 1999.

I am astounded by the threads that appear on this forum.

First of all, that conversation which was overheard was probably all in jest.

You people are looking for ANY excuse to bring down modern civilization. Read my fingers, IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN! Wild dog packs eating kids???? ROTFLMAO Paranoia at it's best is etched into history every day on this forum. I sure hope someone is saving this palaver.

-- (Smartperson@ROTFL.com), May 22, 1999.

Thank you all for the reminder to pick up inexpensive cans of cat food every time I go shopping. We have two Akitas. Our plan is to provide for them just as we are providing for ourselves and the kids. No, those dogs are not humans, but they serve as a fabulous security system and none of the children are ever in the yard without one of them. They lick the hand of the alhambra deliveryman and chew the foot off a peeping tom.

A few weeks ago I was walking the adult male and we were attacked by two dogs that live close by. We have seen them in the past, but they have always kept a distance. Of course this was the one time I had neither my pepper spray or my knife with me, but thank God I had my cell phone. After a few attempted nips, they went running home, with my dog on their tail, ready to kill.

I chased them back to their house just as a neighbor ran over and put them in their back yard. The owners dorve up soon after. I have only been that terrified a few times in my life. But things happen for a reason. It reminded me later on to always be prepared for the unexpected, to NEVER let my kids walk alone in the orchard and get my self backdown to the range. I have NO doubt that there will be roaming animals, espcially in a small country town like this. And that they will present a danger to me and my family if I am not prepared for them.

People who let their dogs run loose should spend a weekend caged in a animal shelter. Well, ok at least working in it for the weekend. ;) The owners of those black dogs do not know how lucky they were that my dog did not kill both of them. Keeping them home is for my safety but also for the safety of the animals themselves.

pamela ;)

-- pamela (pamela4@hotmail.com), May 22, 1999.

Old Git, I too work with abandoned animals. I also do rehab for wounded and motherless animals. Last year I raised two sets of baby birds when their nests were torn down by painters. Although I'd raised lots of animals wild and domestic, I'd never raised tiny birds and it was an interesting esperience. The challenge was raising the birds in a house full of cats. The birds grew up in my bathroom. (door shut)

I'm also on the list to take calls to investigate animal abuse and neglect. Two people always go on these calls and take a camera Having said that, I'll tell you what is much scarier than dog packs, it's people who abuse and neglect animals. Have you read the Humane Society's work concerning the connection between killers and animals abusers.

Mark Twain, is the author who said, "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." I agree.

And you are so right about how comforting they are. I can't imagine life without my best friends. My mother had a little poodle, and she lost her hearing while she had him and couldn't hear the telephone. He instinctively became her caretaker. When the phone rang he would race to her and pull on the leg of her slacks then race back to the phone. She forgot a pan of grease on the stove and the smoke alarm went off. He ran and jerked on her pants leg an ran to the kitchen.

I have been very hurt and disappointed by a few people I've known, but never a pet. And you're right again about how entertaining they are. By the way, I wanted to print out the cat thread that you (I think) started. Do know if it's in the archives?

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 22, 1999.

The extreme irresponsibility of significant numbers of pet owners is right up there in my reasons why I desparately hope for a bump in the road. If there is a major economic downtown, I absolutely expect large numbers of animals to be abandoned. I have stored substantial food for my family and to share with others. I am still stockpiling large amounts of food for my pets. And later this year I will stockpile dry cat and dog food for potential strays. I see a role for animals shelters to spread the word on personal responsibility this winter in particular.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), May 22, 1999.

Brooks, you are correct.

Dear - (Smartperson@ROTFL.com), you clearly haven't had a lot of experience in the less urban areas. Even in some urban areas, there are already feral dog packs, and many feral cats. Plus, there are a LOT of parents who have kids and pets who are NOT preparing and, should we see aserious economic downturn, not even 1/2 of TEOTWAWKI, we'll see a LOT of abandoned pets. Their instincts wil be to set up packs, and they will NOT have the fear of Man that true wild animals have.

Chuck

who has about 6 months of MeowMix stored for the important residents of the house which I pay the mortgage on.

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), May 22, 1999.

Chuck, My concern is primarily the needless suffering of animals left to starve and freeze to death. (If the economy takes a while to deteriorate, then maybe pets won't be tossed out until the weather improves.) Secondarily, rabies has been a reason recently not to mess with stray animals around here. If dog packs become a problem, I think it will be just one of many ways my welfare will be threatened. I'm a firm believer in a quick dispatch of animals when necessary - a blunt blow to the head is about as painless and direct as you can get.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), May 22, 1999.

Hey smartperson,

If you're so frickin smart why does it take you two posts to say one thing?

-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), May 22, 1999.

I agree with most of the above. I perfectly understand both sides of this issue. I am a pet lover and a farmer. I think there needs to be a balance here, some people have gotten a little too far over the edge. I am very conserned about how the animal rights activists are valuing the life of animals over people. It is a shame to all Americans when we have unwanted children in orphanages and all we here about in local newspapers and TV is the newist poch down at the local rescue that needs a home. We kill (abort) unwanted children but would never do that to our pet. We would carry that pregancy to term and find good homes for each and every one of them.

Again I say I do love animals. I have MANY. We love our pets and care for them in the most responcable way. If Y2k gets very bad and is here long term we will do what is in the best intrest of our animals safty and well-being. Even if this means taking thier life.

I have children, I do not hold pets or animals of any kind in the same catagory. I would not let them run loose, Yes, some people will. People that dont believe this will happen dont live in a rual area. We see it happening at least 3 times a year now. We as farmers take care of the problem ourselves.

I do not want "bad times" to come to us in America, I dont think any of us really do. But when does what I want dictate what happens. We Americans have been through very tough times befor. Do we think that all of our worries are over for ever? Do we think America will never have a dark day? I think we will.

Take care of your pets, today, tomorrow, and in the new year.

Bulldog

-- bulldog (sniffin@around.com), May 22, 1999.

Apparently some people have forgotten that animals are freakin' ANIMALS. They are not fellow humans, and they do not have the emotions or thoughts you have, no matter how much you would like to believe that. It looks to me like people like OldGit and Gilda must've been hurt real bad by someone at some point in their lives, to the point where they took comfort in animals. if you feed them, will pay attention to you. If you're mindset is sufficiently warped, you'll eventually believe that their attention equals "love". Get over it, it ain't happening. Instead of spending your time on "rescuing" your little furry darlings, why not do something for humanity. God knows there's enough suffering among us that you could help, instead of wasting it on freakin' ANIMALS..

-- jetpack (jetpck99@ezx.net), May 22, 1999.

jetpack and "smartperson" (sic) are the same person. He is just mad because even if he feeds animals, they won't pay attention to him.

-- karen (karen@karen.karen), May 23, 1999.

Jetpack, that was a major point--I DO perform volunteer work for people, have for decades. Do you? So does The Hungarian--and I bet Gilda does too.

And your unfounded remark about we must have been hurt by fellow humans is laughable! If that logic were valid, then 250 million people in this country would prefer animals to humans! I have yet to meet one person who hasn't been let down by a fellow human.

Neither Gilda nor I ascribe anthropomorphic qualities to our pets, we see them as valuable creatures in their own right. They provide protection, warmth, pest-control, and amusement.

Now you're free to feel the way you do but please don't criticize others who help solve unpleasant problems, like the co-workers described in the first post or anyone else who's ever given shelter and care to an animal thrown away by others.

By the way, someone up there brought in abortion and killing. I'm not going to touch THAT one, except to say that thousands and thousands of pets are killed EVERY SINGLE DAY in this country, either by animal shelters (a misnomer if ever there was one), automobiles, shootings, drownings, immolations--or any way you can think of to get rid of an unwanted piece of personal property. Call your local shelter, ask how many animals they "euthanize" each week.

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this one, so we'd better agree to differ.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 23, 1999.

A Rottenweiler got lose and attacked a neighbors dog, my brother was attempting to save the poor dog and beat the Rottenweiler over the head several times with a 2x4, the Rottenweiller didn't even slow down in killing the neighbor dog.

These dogs are nothing to fool with. Shotguns?

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), May 23, 1999.

Thanks Old Git. You said that very well. Why does everyone, always jump to the conclusion that if you love animals, you have been terribly hurt in your life, and that is why you love animals. Right! Tell me someone that hasn't been hurt at sometime. I love chocolate, flowers, books, insects, music, BBC America, travel, and nature. Does that also mean I've been hurt to the point of loving something besides myself and other human beings? Not bloody likely! I don't hug my past hurts to me like a shroud.

I worked at our local shelter for two weeks until the new manager could take the job, a few years back. I have never had a worse experience. The animals were well treated and cared for by the staff and volunteers, but the callous attitude of people dumping unwanted animals, gave me an insight into a side of human behavior that makes me wonder why we call ourselves civilized. And the amount of animals that are dumped, and the thousands that have to be put down, is a national disgrace. The shelter used to publish the amount of animals killed in the paper, but some sensitive soul objected to hearing the horrifying statistics, and the practice was stopped.

The joy of many old people's lives, that have to live in nursing homes, is when volunteers from the shelter bring the puppies for visits once a week. Many old people never showed interest in anything until the puppies arrived. It is the most touching scene you can imagine. My mother had to be in a nursing home the last two years of her life, and she chose the one that had a resident cat and dog.

Yes I volunteer for human projects too. After we sold our bookstore, I donated hundreds of books to charities. I also worked helping put on a major booksale to sponsor college scholarships. I do research for an environmental group, and I recently helped finance a "Baby Think It Over," doll and program, which is a project to help stop teen pregnancy.

While we're on the subject of animals. I think one of the saddest refugee stories I've heard, was of a little boy crying because his dog was killed in front of his eyes, by another human being.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 23, 1999.

Gilda,

I wish I could be as wonderful as you are. Any more bragging, or did you about cover it? I always thought humility was a virtue, not bragging about how much we do and give.

-- Hurl (Barf@Puke.com), May 23, 1999.

Please remember - although animal shelters do euthanize animals, they are not responsible for the killing. The irresponsible owners who abandon their animals (or their animals' offspring due to lack of sterilization) are the real killers.

I have euthanized over 7000 animals PERSONALLY in my career. Although I know in my head I am not responsible, it is very difficult not to feel deep guilt in my heart. I've dedicated my life to helping animals, yetthe truth remains - if these "unwanted" animals are not euthanized what do we do with them? My SMALL community euthanizes 10,000 animals a year. In ten years, that would be 100,000 animals. Where do we house them, pay for food, how many employees would it take just to care for them? Unfortunately, there is no other answer right now. The only answer is to educate people on responsible pet ownership, including spaying and neutering and instill the belief that ownership of a pet is a lifetime commitment.

-- anon (z@zz.com), May 23, 1999.

Hurl, just before you go to sleep tonight, I want you to think very carefully about what you posted and why. Then I hope you toss and turn half the night wishing you hadn't. If you don't lose any sleep at all, I suggest you ponder why you didn't feel guilty--because what you said showed a great deal of spite. Not very christian of you.

Gilda, would you drop me a line via Critt? Thanks.

anon - z, thanks for doing the dirty work. I know I couldn't do it. I did animal rescue work after Camille and continued volunteering for about three years (until I couldn't take it any more), now I help the Hungarian trap feral cats. (I'm sure you're familiar with programs like Operation Catnip.) I know it's not your fault, it's definitely irresponsible owners who are to blame.

I've just been out to stock up on Hill's (because the sell-by date is 18 mos hence) and cat litter. I do want to have some extra for any neighbor's cats who might be in need and for any strays that might turn up here. And, yes, I do have human food and other supplies for an elderly couple across the street.

Good luck to all of you, and let's hope we have no need to deal with packs of dangerous humans or animals. (Pet owners, you might think abut getting booster shots for your pets within the next month or two, even if they're not due until later this year. There might be a run--and I doubt vet meds are stocked any better than people meds--better safe than sorry.)

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 23, 1999.

Hurl, I'm sorry if that sounded like bragging. I certainly didn't mean to brag. Actually I was answering the first two posts that said most people that become attached to animals have "a screw people attitude, and "an unnatural prejudice" against humans. I don't like being put in the position of saying what I've done for people, as I don't like bragging, and I was doing what I wanted to do. But I hear this often; that if we like animals, we must hate people, which is an oxymoron if I ever heard one. I'm sorry you felt that was the only thing in my post worth commenting one.

anon, you're point is well taken about the "killing," but I just sometimes like to call it what it is, even though it's the people who dump the animals who are the killers, just as you said. That's why I couldn't volunteer at the shelter after my two weeks was up. I went home and bawled every night. So I found other ways to be of help, and no one knows until they've tried it, how difficult it is to work there. Shelter workers are the real heroes of the animal world.

I'll be in touch Old Git. Thanks for realizing that my post was not meant to portray how "grand I am," because I'm certainly not, and don't want to be.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 23, 1999.