Companion reaction thread to "COMPACT" : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

This is the companion thread for the COMPACT thread, where I hope all of the flames and other comments will reside.


Herewith the compact and it's rational:

I'm going to steal a theme from a document that will, probably, be widely available later on, and offer a Compact. I use the elder definition for the term Compact, and that would define it as a binding agreement among the signatories, arrived at in the presence of the Deity.
(doesn't matter which Deity you happen to call your own, though you Wiccans might want to consider Spirit for this, though if you've ben taught correctly, you are going to be more aware of the repercussions in breaking oaths and or giving your word without planning on keeping it than most of the rest of us.)

At the start I would ask that you save flames and comments, beyond the simple "I do so declare" for the companion thread, posted next to this one, with a similar title. Anyone who has grown up in NY understands the "I do so declare" that they write on the lower right hand corner of EVERY REGENTS TEST they take, is a short form of the oath that says they have not cheated on the test. Here, "I do so declare" will indicate an electronic signature to the Compact.

The reason I stopped here in July or August of 1998 was the level of discourse present here. What caught me, and why I stay was that level of engagement, that level of information examination and give and take which I found here. At the time, THIS was the place for "Reasoned, Thoughtful Discourse" as opposed to anywhere I looked on the net. c.s.Y2K was home to the flames of Paul and bks, with MUCH more heat than light. GN wasn't any better. Here, propositions were put forth, discussed and debated, and either allowed to die a natural death or carried on for a while longer before being quietly burried. This is NOT to say that these "debates" and "discussions" weren't spirited at times, as that would hardly describe some of them.

As the developments unfold, with Cap Gemini suggesting that there are SERIOUS problems in MANY organizations (and we have to remember that these are self-reported numbers, so you can apply whatever "filter factor" your approach might use to come up with your own truth) and other studies, polls and surveys have other "information"; as people become more aware, and start to look for data, as we get new people here all the time, we need to try to hold on to the idea of "reasoned, thoughtful discourse" which used to be the hallmark of the forum.

Now, this requires TRUE engagement, which is not without risk. Actually, TRUE engagement is EXTREMELY risky for ALL who attempt it, with the requisite intellectual honesty. The major risk is to the engager and his/her world view. If you engage with rigorous intelectual honesty, this means you are, regardless of how willing, at least ABLE to change your closely held beliefs, when in the presence of information, evidence, or data that contradicts your personal hypothesis. Lest anyone (on the companion thread) suggest that this might be a bit of the pot and kettle dialog, I will be the first to admit that, on occasion, I have been guilty of posts that did NOT ONE THING to further the goal of the Compact I am about to offer. I will, however point out that even adults can grow up. (One of my more recent mottos is "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever." I'm trying to NOT prove this one true. End digression)


WE, the below declared posters, do hereby acknowledge the need for thoughtful reasoned discourse on the Year 2000 issue.
We also hereby declare that we will make every effort to limit our contributions to this forum to those that further this goal and help to make this forum a haven for this type of discourse.
We further declare that we understand that the 2000 Issue is ubiquitous, has MANY facets, and connections; and will NOT occur in a vacuum.
We further understand that as in all things moderation and humor have their places.
Declared and attested to by the below posters, with either screen or full name, and effective on the date of the post, by the simple "I do so declare".

Please reserve reactive comments for this companion thread, and preserve the other thread for the actual declarations. CR

-- chuck, a Night Driver (, May 19, 1999


Folks, this isn't going to spoil all of the fun, just SOME of it. C

-- chuck, a Night Driver (, May 19, 1999.

Chuck, in three days both these threads will have disappeared into the archives. Thereafter only those who have already seen them will know they exist. Is there any way around this?

-- Tom Carey (, May 19, 1999.

"I do so declare"

-- COBOL Dinosaur (, May 19, 1999.


Every couple daze Chuck can post a thread just giving links to the original "documents." If you can't hotlink Chuck, I'll make up a boilerplate for you.

I will ask this question ... what can we do about those who would like to "hi-jack" this forum?



-- Diane J. Squire (, May 19, 1999.

Whups! Put my "declare" on the wrong message. I fixed it.

A heck of a good idea. I hope you don't mind Chuck, but I posted this on another board as well. I think they could all use an agreement like this.

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- COBOL Dinosaur (, May 19, 1999.

In no special order:

Go ahead, I don't claim interect.prop. rights on much!!LOL

And c'mon, I am NOT hot-link challenged, most of the time, unless I'm lazy..LOL.. Besides, I'm not so sure these guys will have been "scrolled into ignominy" quite that easily. The New Answer side will have one or the other fairly high up (humble. ME?). We'll see.

Now, remember, a compact is only binding on the participants because they want it to be. If MOST of us are subscribers to it, then it won't matter. It WILL matter when we start to try to answer the "hywaymen" because, WE will need to remember our participation and our approach MAY need to be changed. This can cut real hard into how WE respond, but I think we're most all adult enough to remember it for ourselves, once we agree. At the worst, it will hopefully force us to THIMK before we hit the SUBMIT about whether we're contributing to the discourse level WE want to maintain. At least that is half my goal.


-- chuck, a Night Driver (, May 19, 1999.


I have no question regarding your honorable intentions. However, it seems to me that the folks who chose all along to simply fling insults will NOT regard this compact as binding even IF they chose to "sign" in. I suspect that most of us were taught as children to respect others. If we're NOT doing that on this forum, I don't see this compact changing that.


-- Anita Spooner (, May 19, 1999.

With all sincere respect for your intention, I try to stay away from oaths and simply keep my "yea", yea and my "nay", nay.

-- BigDog (, May 19, 1999.

Gotta practice biting my lip.

-- Tom Carey (, May 19, 1999.

"I will ask this question ... what can we do about those who would like to "hi-jack" this forum?



Well Di, you can:

A) Ignore them if you do not wish to lend credence to their views.


B) Try to shout them down or make them look foolish.


C) Try to get them deleted


D) Attempt to find out who they are in the real world, then fly to where they live and punch them in the nose.

-- Unc D (, May 19, 1999.

Diane: you can make it clear to them that hi-jacking is no longer possible, since we're aware of the intent as well as the identity of most of the bio-organisms who harbor that intent. You gotta stay in their face, though.......

-- Lisa (, May 19, 1999.

Well, what about the fanatics who hijacked this forum a long time ago?

-- Buddy (.@...), May 19, 1999.

Buddy, Hopefully, if things shake out the way I expect, that particular perception will fall by the wayside. Most of what you perceive as hijacking, or having been hijacked, is the result of people working from their perceptions of the stated purpose of the forum, which runs aprox to be a place for discussion of fall back strategies and preparations. It is fairly recently (oh, 5 or 6 months) that the discussions have been quite so vituperative in ref WHAT to prepare for, and whether or not preparations to specific levels were sane or insane. Prior, the need to prepare was a given, and the "work" of the forum was to identify to what level and HOW one did whatever it was one does to get to a specific level of preparation. And what that level of preparation meant in terms of materiel, skills, etc.

GADS, creeping fogeyism!! OY VEY

Chuck, who still had SOME black hair last time he checked!

PS UNC You left out slipping their location coordinates into the National Targetting Computer for Nuking.

-- chuck, a Night Driver (, May 19, 1999.

Well Unc,

Sometimes, there's such a thing as "ignoring them" and it may or may not work.

At other times there's a larger Y2K issue that can be discussed, but does not "lend credence to their views."

It's on a case-by-case basis.

BTW, physical nose bleeds are not my style.


Buddy ...

Time to OM.

Perhaps the new Yourdon mantra could be "middleground, middleground, middleground."

And from that vantage point we can agree to disagree ... with an intelligent spark? Yes?


-- Diane J. Squire (, May 19, 1999.

Chuck - I'm with you in principal.

I'm trying to behave myself and will do so in the future. However, there comes a time when ya gotta call a spade a spade etc.


-- Andy (, May 19, 1999.

Unfortunate though it may be, I believe Anita is right, with one deviation. Most people are not taught as children to respect others. Or so it seems.

IMHO this compact will have an influence on a few, for a little while. That in itself makes it worthwhile.

Thanks for caring, Chuck!

-- Bingo1 (, May 19, 1999.


Can I say that I have always behaved myself? That I have never fed the trolls? That I've played nice? I think so, but it's possible that the Southern gentileness I grew up with has gone by the wayside a time or two. So, thanks for the little push to further politeness.

Here's hoping the forum grows less polluted and more pointed to the original objective. After all, that single-mindedness is what drew me to this forum in the first plac. Thanks, Linda

-- newbiebutnodummy (, May 19, 1999.


Trying to catch up on today's threads and I was just reminded why I so appreciate your efforts to "clean up" this forum.

I really hate having to sort through so much trash and unproductive posts when I have a limited time to be online. It's very hard to glean the news and help that I need when I have to constantly dig through the name-calling and junk. (Sometimes it reminds me of how my kids start picking on each other and being rude when they are bored. My cure for that is to assign them a chore-usually cleaning the bathroom. Think that would work?)

Anyway, thanks again. Linda

-- newbiebutnodummy (, May 19, 1999.

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