Listen up folks.

This statement to the Senate by James J. Inhofe nearly cost him his life. Last week, after making this statement, the propeller on his private light aircraft FELL OFF. As any private pilot will tell you - THIS SIMPLY DOES NOT HAPPEN. He managed to glide to safety.

What does this tell you about TREASONOUS forces in our government.

Read this statement - IT IS QUITE SIMPLY THE MOST FRIGHTENING ARTICLE I'VE READ IN MANY YEARS.

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CHINAS THEFT OF NUCLEAR SECRETS

Senate Floor Statement

March 15, 1999

Mr. President, I want you to listen. I am going to tell you a story of espionage, conspiracy, deception and cover-upa story with life and death implications for millions of Americansa story about national security and a President and an administration that deliberately chose to put national security at risk, while telling the people everything was fine.

If it was written in a book, it wouldnt sell, because no one would believe it. If it was fictionalized in a novel, few could conceive it. But it is true.

Now for the sake of my statement today, I am stating that the President withheld information and covered up the Chinese theft of our technology. But Im realistic enough to know that a person with the history of deception this president has will have provided himself with some cover in case he gets caught. So Im sure there is a paper trail that he can allege. The way the President probably covered himself was to include tidbits about this theft buried in briefings on 40 or 50 others items, so the significance of it would not be noticed. But a paper trail would be established.

Anticipating that, I talked to the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Porter Goss, and the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee at the time of the discovery of this information, Sen. Arlen Specter. Neither chairman was notified of the W-88 nuclear warhead technology theft. And these would have been the first to be notified. There can be no doubt that President Clinton engaged in a cover up scheme.

Let me read three paragraphs from last weeks op-ed article by Michael Kelly in the Washington Post, entitled Lies About China.

In April 1996, Energy Department officials informed Samuel Berger, then Clintons deputy national security advisor, that Notra Trulock, the departments chief of intelligence, had uncovered evidence that showed China had learned how to miniaturize nuclear bombs, allowing for smaller, more lethal warheads...

The Times reports that the House Intelligence Committee asked Trulock for a briefing in July 1998. Trulock asked for permission from Elizabeth Moler, then acting energy secretary. According to Trulock, Moler told him not to brief the committee because the information might be used against Clintons China policy... The White Houses secret would have remained secret had it not been for a select investigative committee headed by Republican Christopher Cox...

But even using the Presidents fictitious paper trail, the earliest either chairman could have known about it would have been late spring of 1997, years after the Clinton administration learned of it and, of course, after the 1996 elections.

I start, Mr. President, by listing a few things which we now know to be true, factual, incontrovertible...and not classified.

For years, the Clinton administration covered-up Chinas theft of top secret U.S. nuclear weapons data. They never informed the Congress or American people about what had happened or its significance to our national security.

Let me tell you what President Clinton did during this period time:

During this period of time, the President misled the American people on numerous occasions about the threat posed by strategic nuclear missiles in the post cold war era.

During this period of time, President Clinton made statements on over 130 separate occasions, such as the following: For the first time since the dawn of the nuclear age, there is not a single solitary nuclear missile pointed at an American child tonight. Not one. Not a single one.

During this period of time, he knew that China was targeting up to 18 intercontinental ballistic missiles at American children.

During this period of time, President Clinton signed export control waivers which allowed his top campaign fundraisers aerospace company to transfer sensitive U.S. missile guidance technology to China.

During this period of time, he shifted the prime satellite export responsibility from the State Department to the Commerce Department, making it easier for China and others to get sensitive military-related U.S. technology .

During this period of time, President Clinton hosted over 100 White House fundraisers as part of a larger aggressive scheme to raise campaign contributions, many from illegal foreign sources, primarily including sources in China. Among guests permitted to attend these White House fundraisers were a convicted felon and a Chinese arms dealer.

During this period of time, John Huang, Charlie Trie, Johnny Chung, James Riady and others with strong ties to China were deeply involved, with the Presidents knowledge, in raising Chinese-tainted campaign cash for the Clinton campaign.

During this period of time, John Huang, who had been given a security clearance without a background check, was permitted to receive numerous classified CIA briefings, both during and after his stay at the Commerce Department.

--And during this period of time, President Clinton was successfully stopping the deployment of a national missile defense system, exposing every American life to a missile attack, leaving us with no defense against an intercontinental ballistic missile.

Mr. President, Chinas theft of secret data on the so-called W-88" nuclear warhead may be one of the most serious breaches of national security in our lifetimes.....More serious than Aldrich Ames. Perhaps more serious than the Rosenbergs.

The public needs to understand that this story is true. This is not about partisanship. This is not about some ancient history of some long gone Cold War.

This is about the real world here and now. This is about national security in its most important aspects. This is about protecting our freedom and our existence as a nation. This is ultimately a matter which concerns the life and death of every citizen.

The W-88 is the most advanced nuclear warhead in the U.S. arsenal and is carried on top of Trident SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles).

This is the cornerstone weapon of our nations nuclear deterrent. As many as eight of them can fit atop our submarine-launched missiles. As many as ten can be put atop our largest land-based missiles...or on Chinas land based missiles.

We are talking about a miniaturized warhead--Much smaller in size than the Hiroshima atom bomb but ten times more powerful.

As you can see from the chart, which appeared in the NY Times, Mar. 6, 1999, the Hiroshima bomb was huge and unwieldy. It was 10 and a half feet long and weighed over 4 tons8,900 pounds.

By contrast, the modern W-88 warhead is compact. It is only 2 and a half feet long and weighs only 300 pounds, but is at least 10 times more powerful.

The technology on which it is built is super top secret and represents billions of dollars and years, if not decades, of investment on the part of dedicated scientists and engineers working in the supreme American national interest.

Some might ask why does America have this weapon? Because it is part of our responsibility as a world superpower to have the most advanced, efficient and credible nuclear deterrent, not only to protect our own freedom, but that of our allies as well.

It is part of our policy of peace through strength. While we do not intend to ever use nuclear weapons, it is a fact of life in a dangerous world that we must be prepared to deter any potential adversary and any potential weapon any adversary may have.

The W-88 allows for multiple warheads to be placed on one missile. With this technology, China will now be able to put up to ten warheads on a single long range missile. Each warhead targeted at a different city. Each city subject to an explosion 10 times as great as that which destroyed Hiroshima at the end of WWII.

You know, Mr. President, Im from Oklahoma. In 1995, a 4,800 pound truck bomb exploded outside the Murrah Federal Office Building in Oklahoma City. The building was destroyed, 168 people were killed, and 674 were wounded. This was a horrible event, the worst act of terrorism ever on American soil. That bomb had a force of 1,000 pounds (one-half of one ton) of TNT.

By way of contrast, the Hiroshima atom bomb had an explosive force of 15 kilotons (or 30,000 times as large as the Oklahoma City bomb. The W-88, while smaller in physical size, has a force of 150 kilotons (or 300,000 times as large as the Oklahoma City bomb) And by carrying 10 of these on one missile, 3 million times the force for the Oklahoma City bomb.

The more compact W-88 warhead makes possible what is called MIRV (multiple independent reentry vehicle) technology, something China was thought to be many, many years away from developing on its own. And they stole this technology and President Clinton covered it up.

We also used to think North Korea was many years away from building long range multiple-stage rockets.

Listen, Mr. President: On Aug. 24 last year, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Henry Shelton, wrote me a letter saying he was confident we would have 3 years warning of any new long range missile threat. Seven days later, on Aug. 31, North Korea launched a three-stage Taepo Dong I missile, that scattered a small payload off the coast of Alaska.

All of this only confirms what the Rumsfeld Report explained to us last year. We remember the Rumsfeld Commission which was chaired by former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. This bipartisan commission, appointed jointly by Republicans and Democrats, included nine of the nations most distinguished, qualified and informed experts in the field of assessing foreign missile threats. They concluded unanimously that when it comes to advanced missiles and weapons, with countries willing to buy, sell and steal technology, we live in an environment of little or no warning. Which means we must immediately be prepared.

Last year, you may remember how it was revealed that the Clinton Administration had changed the approval process for high technology satellite transfersand how waivers were granted for American companies so they could launch satellites in China. This ultimately resulted in China acquiring advanced US missile guidance technology, making their missiles more accurate and more reliable. President Clinton personally signed the waiver allowing China to acquire this missile technology. Let me repeat, President Clinton personally signed the waiver allowing China to acquire this missile technology.

Executives of these two corporations that benefittedLoral and Hugheswere among the largest financial contributors to President Clintons campaign effort. But this is not important, Mr. President, because the motive for aiding and abetting our adversaries could be money, or it could be some kind of perverted allegiance to these countries, or it could be a total indifference to the security of the lives of Americans. The motive is not important. The fact is President Clinton did it and he knew exactly what he was doing.

Now coupling the transferred missile guidance technology with the stolen nuclear weapon technology, China can threaten US cities with accurate, reliable and horribly destructive multiple warhead nuclear missiles.

This is not science fiction fantasy, Mr. President. Two years ago, a high ranking Chinese official actually said that China was prepared to hit Los Angeles if the US would take steps to defend Taiwan. No American should assume these are idle or impossible threats.

Now by helping China develop their long range missile program, President Clinton was also helping North Korea and other rogue nations with theirs. Let me read three paragraphs from last weeks Washington Times article entitled, China Assists North Korea Space Launches.

China is sharing space technology with North Korea, a move that could boost Pyongyangs long range missile program, White House and Pentagon officials told The Washington Times...

Another Pentagon report on a 1996 Chinese booster that failed to launch a U.S. satellite concluded that U.S. national security was harmed by the improper sharing of technology with China by Hughes and another satellite maker, Loral Space & Communications Ltd...

Keep in mind, President Clinton signed the waiver to give the Chinese this technology. The article concludes: In 1994, the Pentagons Defense Intelligence Agency reported that it believed China had helped design the Taepodong 2 missile (this is the North Korean missile) because its first stage diameter is very close in size to Chinas CSS-2 intermediate range missiles. So it is factual to say that President Clinton knew he was giving our missile technology to North Korea as well as China. I take this moment to remind my colleagues once again that America today has no defense whatsoever against such a threat. The Clinton administration todaydespite its rhetoric--opposes to the deployment of any national missile defense system.

It was 16 years ago this month, on March 23, 1983, that President Reagan announced his intention to develop a national missile defense system to protect America. We have come a long way since then. Our technology has improved, we know what to do to meet this challenge.

Had we kept steadily on the course the President Reagan set, we would have a missile defense system deployed right now. Instead, we have an Administration which killed the Reagan-Bush Strategic Defense Initiative program, which vetoed missile defense bills passed by Congress and which is wedded to the outdated ABM Treaty, which Henry Kissinger, the architect of the treaty says has outlived its usefulness.

Clinton today is obsessed with maintaining the philosophy of the old ABM Treaty at all costs. He is locked into the mentality of a world with two lone superpowersthe United States and the Soviet Union.

The theory is that if both sides keep their populations defenseless, then neither side would dare attack out of fear of a devastating retaliation. This is what they call mutual assured destruction (MAD). It is a theory that Dr. Kissinger believes makes no sense in the modern world where many countries are getting their hands on long range missiles and weapons of mass destruction.

President Clinton is solely responsible for the fact that we are totally defenseless against an incoming ICBM from China or anywhere else.

From news reports, this is some of what we know about Chinas theft of our nuclear secrets:

Apparently a spy at the Energy Depts Los Alamos weapons lab succeeded in transferring data on this highly classified W-88 warhead technology to China in the mid-1980s.

But our government did not find out about it until April 1995. (This is a critical date. We did not know about the theft until April 1995.) Detection came when experts analyzed data from then-recent Chinese underground nuclear tests and saw remarkable similarities to the W-88 U.S. warhead. Later in 1995, secret Chinese government documents confirmed that there had been a security breach at Los Alamos. 1995.

Deputy National Security Advisor Sandy Berger was first briefed about it in 1996. President Clinton did not respond then because he was obviously a little preoccupied with what he considered more important matters at that time.

After all, there were White House fundraisers to host, foreign campaign contributions, satellite transfers to approve, high technology trade with China to promote, andof course-- an election to be won...at all costs. Mr. Berger was well aware of all this. We know he sat in on all the key campaign strategy meetings in 1996.

This was also the time when President Clinton was running around the country telling audiences that for the first time since the dawn of the nuclear age, there is not a single, solitary nuclear missile pointed at an American child tonight. Not one. Not a single one.

Of course, everyone cheered, believing it to be true.

Of all the lies this president has told, this is the most egregious of all.

He repeated this misleading, deceptive lie over 130 times between 1995 and 1997, right at the very time he and his national security advisors knew that this horrible breach of nuclear security had occurred and was under investigation. It was also at that very time that he knew that up to 18 American cities were being targeted by Chinese long range missilesmissiles that had and have the potential of killing millions of Americans.

And during this time he said it 130 times: For the first time since the dawn of the nuclear age, there is not a single, solitary nuclear missile pointed at an American child tonight. Not one. Not a single one.

So while the American people consumed his misleading and dishonest public statements--helping to secure his reelectionnothing was done for over a year about the security breach at Los Alamos.

The likely suspect spy was identified in early 1997, and the FBI urged that he at least be transferred to a less sensitive position.

But inexplicably, he was allowed to keep his sensitive job at Los Alamos for another year and a half. This was the spy responsible for the theft and President Clinton kept him in that sensitive job for another year and half. Finally, he was fired by Energy Secretary Richardson last Monday (March 8, 1999), but only after he was publicly identified in news reports as having failed two previous lie detector tests.

In all of this, was Congress ever informed? No. As a member of the Armed Services and Intelligence Committees, I certainly was not. And as I said earlier, I talked to the chairman of both the House Intelligence Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee and they were not informed.

Did the President ever take the appropriately aggressive and timely steps which should have been taken to protect the national security interest, in the wake of this matter? He did not.

Why? Why the delays? Why the lack of consultation and communication? Why the seeming indifference to this very, very serious breach of national security?

We will be asking some tough questions about this in the days ahead, and I note that the Armed Services Committee will be holding hearings on this issue soon. The Senate Intelligence Committee will hold a closed hearing on Wed. Mar. 17.

The American people need to know what is going on here.

The Presidents National Security Advisor, Mr. Berger, has a lot to answer for here. He had better be prepared to answer questions from members of Congress honestly, forthrightly and without intention to deceive, mislead, or change the meaning of words. Otherwise, he should resign now and take the rap for President Clinton.

I am convinced we have not yet scratched the surface of this national security scandal exposed by these most recent revelations.

This administration obviously wanted nothing to interfere with developing good relations with China. While it was soliciting and accepting campaign contributions from China, it was dragging its feet on investigating the most egregious espionage operation China had ever succeeded in pulling off in the U.S., a breach of security which could potentially put the lives of millions of Americans at great risk.

This is without doubt the worst example yet of how this administration has put its own selfish motives above the national security interest of the country and above the protection of American lives.

The American people and the Congress must demand the President be held accountable for this gross dereliction of duty.

I guess the question is, what can we do? Im not sure there is anything we can do except inform the American people and let public outrage solve the problem. And why are we in Congress so limited in what we can do?

The Founding Fathers never envisioned we would have a president who would do these kinds of things and act in these ways. This is why the Constitution gives the president great latitude of action in carrying out his duties and why he is protected from the other branches of government by the separation of powers.

John Adams, on his first night in the newly constructed White House, wrote to his wife, and spoke of the expectations of all the founders during that time: May none but honest and wise men rule under this roof, he wrote.

There was an assumption the American people would always elect presidents with a basic level of morality, honesty and integrity, who out of patriotism would always put the welfare of the country above any personal ambitions for power or glory.

This president knew he was covering up information vital to the safety and well-being of every Americanthat China had stolen from us the advanced technology which would give them the capability to kill millions of Americans in multiple cities with just one missile. He knew it.

In 1945, World War II was ended when atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Each explosion destroyed an entire city, killing tens of thousands. The death toll at Hiroshima was about 75,000 from that 15 kiloton nuclear bomb.

Just think...that with the technology that the President has transferred to China and what China has stolen and the President has covered up, China is now capable of producing a 150 kiloton bomb small enough to fit ten of them on top of one missile, each bomb targeted at a different American city with accuracy and reliability. Just extrapolating the numbers, that--in theory--is enough destructive power to kill as many as 7,500,000 Americanswith just one missile.

And, due to this president who stopped our national missile defense effort, we have no defense. We have a president who acts as if he doesnt care...about us.

So finally, Mr. President, let me repeat the six proven incontrovertible facts:

1. President Clinton hosted over 100 campaign fundraisers in the White House, many with Chinese connections.

2. President Clinton used John Huang, Charlie Trie, Johnny Chung, James Riady, and others with strong Chinese ties to raise campaign money.

3. President Clinton signed waivers to allow his top campaign fundraisers aerospace company to transfer U.S. missile guidance technology to China.

4. President Clinton covered up the theft of our most valuable nuclear weapons technology.

5. President Clinton lied to the American people over 130 times about our nations security while he knew Chinese missiles were aimed at American children.

6. President Clinton single-handedly stopped the deployment of a national missile defense system, exposing every American life to a missile attack, leaving America with no defense whatsoever against an intercontinental ballistic missile.

Again, it doesnt matter whether President Clinton did these things for Chinese campaign contributions because the motive for aiding and abetting our adversaries is not important. The fact is President Clinton did it and he knew exactly what he was doing.

Im not a lawyer, Mr. President, but I have to ask, could President Clinton have been tried for impeachment for the wrong crime?

Why am I here telling the truth about the President? Because no one else will. They know this president will lie with such conviction that the American people will continue to believe him and they dont want to take the risk.

Yesterday at the McLean Bible Church, the sermon was about risk. They all came back from Canaan with reports of certain defeat...except for Kaleb who said we could win. God left the Israelites to languish in the desert and sent Kaleb to the promised land. But with all these lessons we just dont learn.

Henry Ward Beecher said it a different way. He siad, I dont like those cold precise people who in order not to say wrong, say nothing...and in order not to do wrong, do nothing. So somebody has to tell the truth about this President....We cant all be appeasers. An appeaser is a guy who throws his friends to the alligator in hopes that the alligator will eat him last.

Hiram Mann said, No man survives when freedom fails, the best men rot in filthy jails, and those who cry appease, appease are hanged by those they tried to please.

Truth will ultimately prevail...its just stubborn. Winston Churchill said, Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is.

Mr. President, everything I have said during the course of the last 30 minutes is absolutely true. I hope America is listening. Weve got a nation to save.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 16, 1999

Answers

We've never had any defense against incoming inter-continental ballistic missiles from China or anywhere else. This counts as news only for people who thought this was a non-issue. We still have the ability to turn China into the world's largest sand-pit. With the assumption that their/our leadership will weigh things rationally, then we're safe. Not the safest assumption in the world, but it's the only assurance there's been in my lifetime. I don't feel safe without a national missile defense system, but I certainly wouldn't feel any safer with one. "Destabilization" is a big word but I understand it well enough to worry about it. I suspect that if we had a national missile defense system there would be a few people crazy enough to trust it, and that could be as dangerous as not having one.

-- Steve Hartzler (s.hartzler@usa.net), May 16, 1999.

Andy,

Shoot a hole in this please. All this rhetoric about chineese pilferation is a spin started by the right to go back to cold war status, to increase contracts for military suppliers, bring back covert operations, and with it the power it once did.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@aol.com), May 16, 1999.

Well, there's always "Duck and Cover". That's what the US government was telling people to do in the 50's.

from the filmThe Atomic Cafe:

There was a turtle by the name of Burt,
And Burt the turtle was very alert,
When danger threatened him he never got hurt,
He knew just what to do.

He'd duck and cover - duck and cover....

Remember what to do, friends.
Now tell me, right out loud -
what are you to do when you see the flash?

DUCK! AND COVER!

Attaboy, Tony, that flash means act fast!
Sundays, holidays, vacation time,
we must be ready every day, all the time!
To do the right thing if the atomic bomb explodes.
Duck - and cover!
First you duck! Then you cover!
Duck - and cover!
He did what we all must learn to do:
you, and you, and you and you....

-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), May 16, 1999.

Hey Nathan, I thought that was Clinton's mantra du jour, his modus operandi :))

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 16, 1999.

On second thoughts, f*#K and cover :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 16, 1999.

Andy,

And after all my work to remove those typos!

The really great thing about the duck and cover strategy is it has the potential to reduce casualites from something like 99.99% to a mere 99.98%

-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), May 16, 1999.

Worldwide Nuclear Missile Threat To The US Growing Rapidly

By Catherine Rudolph

Tacoma Reporter

www.tacoma.net/voice 5-16-99

Our military installations give the region economic stability And a big red target under our feet.

Lost in this summer,s endless revelations about the White House sex scandal were a report on nuclear proliferation and an object lesson in nuclear politics courtesy of the North Korean government. In July, a panel of experts led by former U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld concluded that the ballistic missile threat from unstable governments was far greater than anticipated. In August, North Korea lobbed a short-range ballistic missile 300 miles across the Sea of Japan. The missile splashed down just off Vladivostok, Russia. The North Koreans have admitted that they have gone into the arms business in nuclear weapons: Pakistan tested a Korean-made weapon shortly after its neighbor and rival, India, conducted underground nuclear tests. Korea has also supplied missiles to Iran and Syria.

U.S. Congressman Norm Dicks, a defense expert who also serves on the House Intelligence Committee, is concerned about the threat but believes that the threat of terrorists using more conventional weapons is a bigger problem (and hardly comforting). Dicks says that "U.S. troops stationed in South Korea and Japan are at risk in the present situation." Why should we care? Because the technical sophistication required to make a short range ballistic missile provides the foundation for developing an intercontinental ballistic missile. In three to five years, those living in the western United States could find themselves the objects of nuclear blackmail. The large, sophisticated submarine base at Bangor on the Kitsap Peninsula, Ft. Lewis and McChord Air Force Base make South Puget Sound a primary target.

A major nuclear strike at Bangor would destroy most of the U.S. nuclear submarine fleet in the Pacific Ocean. A strike at McChord would impair the ability of the United States to deploy troops and materiel. With the closure of Ft. Ord in central California, Ft. Lewis has become the Army,s most significant base of operations on the West Coast.

Bases insulate our economy against bad times and provide a source of educated professionals to local businesses, but they come with attached risks. Geopolitics matter in an immediate sense when you and your loved ones could be toasted.

The Rumsfeld Commission Report

The report of the Commission to Assess the Ballistic Missile Threat to the United States was unanimous. The nine member panel was composed of Democrats and Republicans who have held senior positions in the nation,s national security agencies. The results of the six month study were grim. The potential for several rogue nations, including Iraq, to develop ICBM,s in the short term is very real. The timeline for such development projected by the commission was much shorter than that assumed in the Central Intelligence Agency forecast. The CIA had forecast that development of ICBM capability by a variety of competitors was 15 years away. The commission concluded that three to five years was a more realistic estimate.

Countries which pose an ongoing threat to the United States, such as Iraq(which had developed short-range ballistic missiles prior to the Gulf War), have the knowledge to develop long range missiles in a relatively short span of time. The commission concluded that it would take only three to five year for a technologically sophisticated country to develop an ICBM from the point at which it decides to develop such a weapon.

The breakup of the Soviet Union, far from providing a breather from the threat of nuclear weapons, has probably increased the rate at which such weapons are spreading across the globe as technicians and technology are sold to the highest bidder.

Intercontinental Range Not Necessary For Weapons Of Mass Destruction

Rumsfeld points out that short- and medium-range ballistic missiles"missiles with a range of up to about 1500 miles"are portable. They could be moved on cargo ships and launched from the deck of the ship. They could be placed in another country,s territory close to a target country and launched from there.

Short-range missiles in the hands of any unstable government increase the terrorist threat to the United States. Unstable governments are less likely to retain control of their weapons inventory. "In some ways, I agree with Admiral James Woolsey, the former CIA Director, who said that the world was a much safer place when it was the U.S. vs. the Soviet Union," Dicks said.

Intelligence Capabilities Eroding?

On July 15, 1998, CIA Director George Tenet issued a copy of a letter sent to senior members of Congress which responded to the Rumsfeld Commission report. Tenet wrote: "The differences center more on when specific threats will materialize, rather than whether there is a serious threat. In our March, 1998 Annual Report to Congress on Foreign Missile Developments, we underline the significant threat posed today by medium-range missiles, our continuing concern about existing and emerging ICBMs, and the immediate danger that comes from the proliferation activities of countries that possess or are developing such systems."

Rumsfeld believes that over 20 countries are engaged in such development.

"It,s important that we have multiple sources of intelligence," states Dicks. "Intelligence is a big force multiplier." He says closed societies such as North Korea are among the most difficult challenges to our intelligence capability. "North Korea is a hard target, and one of the hard targets where we don,t have great capability." Dicks believes that the risk of massive retaliation toward any country or group which attacks the U.S. will continue to act as a deterrent to such activity.

Dicks Says U.S. Strength Still Poses A Credible Deterrent

"If you have 18 Trident submarines with 24 launchers times x number of warheads, you have a credible deterrent," according to Congressman Dicks.

Dicks believes that "smart" conventional weapons such as the B-2 Bomber provide the United States with strategic options. "With the B- 2, we could stop the invasion of South Korea or destroy a cache of biological weapons. In a dangerous situation, the ability to use air power and control air space would give us maximum leverage in a variety of situations."

Dicks says that rational actors aren,t going to take on the United States. "Our strength is in precision weapons. Smart weapons on the B- 2 can hit targets from 45,000 feet up. There is a huge risk in attacking the U.S. with the type of devastating capability we can bring down on our adversaries," Dicks said.

Dicks believes that small-scale terrorist activity against U.S. cities should be of greater concern to citizens than a rogue nation using missiles. Nonetheless, he supports actions to defend our nation against the missile threat.

An Anti-Ballistic Missile Strategy?

Dicks supports continued exploration of anti-ballistic missile technologies, but he does not believe that the U.S. should make a major investment in an unproven technology, but rather a series of research and development investments that might lead to a technology which would be effective against both ballistic missile and cruise missiles (which are harder to detect than ballistic missiles). "The use-a-bullet-to-hit-a-bullet, strategy doesn,t work. That was proved in the Gulf War. If the scud missiles had been more accurate, we would have been in a lot of trouble."

The Rumsfeld Commission report specifically endorses the acquisition of a defense against the ballistic missile threat.

North Korea: the Last Stalinist State is Poor, Starving and "Negotiating" with Missile Technology.

"North Korea is not self-sufficient in food. People live under the harshest of conditions. It,s one of the last Communist regimes," said Congressman Dicks. He said negotiations are under way to try to improve the food situation.

In an interview last spring, Kathy McCaul, a spokeswoman for a major relief organization"World Vision"expressed concerns about the distribution of food within North Korea. World Vision discovered that grain distributions delivered for the general populace were being diverted to the military. World Vision solved the problem by using feeding centers for children as direct distribution sites rather than putting supplies in the hands of the government.

Some expert observers believe that the North Koreans are attempting to use the sale of missile technology as leverage in negotiations with the United States.

Former U.S. Ambassador to South Korea Donald Gregg, in a copyrighted interview with The Washington Post, said he believed that North Korea was unhappy with the state of its agreement with the U.S. to suspend its nuclear weapons tests in exchange for fuel oil shipments.

In the target-rich environment of South Puget Sound, we can only hope the United States government takes decisive action against further weapons developments by North Korea and other powers with the habit of testing our will.

Specific Findings of the Commission to Assess the Ballistic Missile Threat to the United States

Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld is a sensible conservative who is taken seriously by the leaders of both parties. Rumsfeld has run major corporations and has an educated view of technology. The former ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization has also served as the chairman and CEO of General Instrument Company and G.D. Searle Pharmaceuticals. (He,s the man to thank or curse for the development of Equal sweetener.) He has also served as chairman of RAND, a think tank specializing in defense analysis, and chairman of Gilead Sciences, a company which is a leader in IDS research. The other members of the bipartisan commission were equally well pedigreed.

1) "Concerted efforts by a number of overtly or potentially hostile nations to acquire ballistic missiles with biological or nuclear payloads pose a growing threat to the United States, its deployed forces and its friends and allies."

2) "The threat to the U.S. posed by these emerging capabilities is broader, more mature, and evolving more rapidly than has been reported in estimates and reports by the intelligence community."

3) "The Intelligence Community,s ability to provide timely and accurate estimates of ballistic missile threats to the U.S. is eroding."

4) "The warning times the U.S. can expect of new, threatening ballistic missile deployments are being reduced." The United States Senate has endorsed the findings of the commission by specific resolution, sponsored by Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and John McCain of Arizona. The resolution stated in part that "North Korea is developing the Taepo Dong intermediate range ballistic missile, which is expected to have sufficient range to put at risk United States territories, forces and allies throughout the Asia-Pacific area. Multi-stage missiles like the Taepo Dong class missile can ultimately be extended to intercontinental range." The resolution directs that "the recommendations of the Commission to Assess the Ballistic Missile Threat to the United States should be incorporated into the analytical processes of the United States intelligence community as soon as possible."

The resolution also states that the United States should accelerate cooperative theater missile defense programs with Japan.

Catherine Rudolph

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 16, 1999.

For years this country has been letting Clinton get away with MURDER. As long as everyone has shiny cars, big houses, and soaring stocks it will stay that way. Whatever he may know that we do not, his a*s remains covered and he has nothing to lose. People should be well pissed by next year when the epiphany strikes them: We lost it all on a thrill ride. Here is your WAKE UP call. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

-- Gia (Laureltree7@hotmail.com), May 16, 1999.

Two points for Andy.

1) We have NEVER had a defense against incoming ballistic missiles. All we ever had was MAD, the suicide pact we called Mutual Assured Destruction. This was true in 1960 and it's still true today. Get used to it. Everybody alive then did. China is a newbie in this game.

2) Offing a whistleblower after the cat's already out of the bag is really a stupid move, it only persuades folks that there's really something to the story. Look up the story of Danny Casolaro on any search engine for how it's done in the big leagues. Or Ron Brown, more recently. You gotta plug leaks in the dike before it breaks -- afterwards, all you can do is swim.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 17, 1999.

The Theater Missle Defense (TMD) plan would take a decade to develop and deploy. Then...it wouldn't work. The best statement of it's practicality can be attributed to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He said, to the effect, that our ability to hit a bullet with another bullet is not too good. Just the chest-pounding debates to implement such a ridiculous system are triggering more chest-pounding by the Chinese...since it is directed at them.

What am I thinking? Of course it will be approved. When has common sense ever been part of the decision process?

-- PNG (png@gol.com), May 17, 1999.

Tom and others,

"Two points for Andy. 1) We have NEVER had a defense against incoming ballistic missiles. All we ever had was MAD, the suicide pact we called Mutual Assured Destruction. This was true in 1960 and it's still true today. Get used to it. Everybody alive then did. China is a newbie in this game."

Take a straw poll of JQP over our ability to defend ourselves aginst incoming nukes from Russia or China - I can assure you that most people assume that we have ABM weapons sytems that can protect us.

I'm playing devils' advocate here.

BTW what did ever happen to SDI?

WHY did clinton sign off on allowing a first strike on US soil before we retaliate?

This is suicide - no???

Any takers?

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 17, 1999.

"It was 16 years ago this month, on March 23, 1983, that President Reagan announced his intention to develop a national missile defense system to protect America. We have come a long way since then. Our technology has improved, we know what to do to meet this challenge.

Had we kept steadily on the course the President Reagan set, we would have a missile defense system deployed right now. Instead, we have an Administration which killed the Reagan-Bush Strategic Defense Initiative program, which vetoed missile defense bills passed by Congress and which is wedded to the outdated ABM Treaty, which Henry Kissinger, the architect of the treaty says has outlived its usefulness."

Well???

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 17, 1999.

Here is todays worldnetdaily article by Nyquist who now writes for them. He earlier reported that N. Korea had its special forces slip into Japan recently ready to destabilize its infrastructure.

Is a military offensive being contemplated?

) 1999 WorldNetDaily.com

"Only the offensive leads to the attainment of victory over the enemy," wrote Col. Sidorenko, a Soviet military strategist in the 1970s. "As a type of combat, the offensive has incontestable advantages over the defense." Why is the offensive so incontestably superior?

Sidorenko explained, "The attacker has broad capabilities for launching surprise strikes, for the rapid exploitation of the results of nuclear attacks. ..."

On Dec. 15, in a Washington Times op-ed piece, J. Michael Waller broke a mainstream media taboo. He noted that Russia's new hard-line leaders had been "spending their time and money preparing for ... nuclear war against the United States and its allies."

Waller's statement, of course, is correct. As crazy as it sounds, the Russians have been preparing for a Third World War, even as Russia's leaders have warned that such a war may be imminent. In recent years, the Russians have built huge underground shelters, bunkers, and nuclear-proof cities. Under Yamantau Mountain in the Urals, the Russians have built an underground city the size of metropolitan Washington. But that is not all the Russians have done.

According to Bill Lee, a former official with the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Russians have 10,000 to 12,000 ABMs defending their country. These ABMs have been deceptively described to the outside world as Surface to Air Missiles (SAMs), but as Lee told me in Washington last February, many of these so-called SAMs can carry one-megaton warheads far above the earth's atmosphere. Lee also explained how a special type of nuclear warhead, which puts out x-ray radiation, could be used in these "SAMs" to kill American nuclear warheads as they travel towards Russia, along flight-paths outside the earth's atmosphere. Inside the earth's atmosphere, explained Lee, "the Russians would use interceptor missiles with neutron bombs. The peculiar characteristics of this warhead give it a better kill radius against warhead electronics."

Another peculiar move in recent months, the Russians have been upgrading 180 MiG-29s to what they call the MiG-29 SMT. The upgrade involves the addition of a fuel tank and in-flight refueling capabilities that would give the MiG-29 intercontinental range. Why the Russian Federation would need a jet fighter that could fly to Chicago is something curious. If you put this together with the stockpiling of strategic metals, food, and fuel, a more ominous picture begins to unfold.

Since the NATO bombing began against Yugoslavia, Russian war preparations have accelerated. Over 80,000 Russians have volunteered to fight the West. Last month, the Russian Defense Ministry called up a draft of 170,000 recruits. Russia also called up a large number of naval and marine reserves, which have been used to man Russia's Black Sea Fleet.

In terms of naval deployments, the Russians have mobilized their Northern, Pacific, Baltic and Black Sea fleets for unprecedented training exercises, which have been held almost continuously since 27 March. These exercises have involved marine amphibious landings, missile launches, and mock air-strikes.

But Russia is not alone in preparing for war. China, too, has been engaged in a serious buildup of forces opposite Taiwan. There is also China's invasion of the Spratly Islands, which are located more than 800 miles from China yet 140 miles from the Philippines. In January, Manila was alarmed to discover that the People's Liberation Army was erecting gun and anti-aircraft emplacements on Mischief Reef. The Chinese ambassador to the Philippines, Guan Dengming, insisted that China was merely constructing "shelters for fishermen." But a leading Philippine official countered this, saying, "We strongly believe a fortress is being built. ..." Philippine Defense Secretary Orlando Mercado stated that concrete buildings in the Spratlys "are beginning to look more like military structures rather than the so-called fisherman's refuge the Chinese claimed it to be." Mercado further accused China of bullying the Philippines, referring to recent Chinese moves as a "a creeping invasion."

As it happens, Taiwan's lifeline runs near to the Spratlys. On Jan.12 of this year, Taiwan President Lee, taking note of Beijing's obvious attempts to encircle his small island country, called on his fellow citizens "to raise their vigilance against the military threat from China." Four days earlier, on Jan. 8, Chinese President Jiang Zemin laid out the mission of the People's Liberation Army in a speech: "We must resolutely safeguard the unity of the motherland and the nation's territorial integrity."

Unity, of course, is the war cry of the Communist Chinese against the Nationalist Chinese on Taiwan. President Jiang also warned that the Chinese People's Liberation Army should prepare itself for two things: nuclear war and internal uprisings. Soon thereafter, in mid January, China conducted bomber and missile exercises in which Chinese forces practiced targeting American troops in the Far East. The Chinese have also announced radical changes in military doctrine. The Chinese Air Force was placed in "offensive mode" in January, and China's army doctrine was altered to one of global war-fighting.

Chinese war preparations have also been unmasked, more recently, by the United States Congress. The House select committee's long-awaited report, slated for release this week, describes the emergence of China as a serious military threat, claiming that: 1) China has stolen five of America's most modern nuclear warheads through "pervasive" spying at U.S. nuclear laboratories; 2) China has stolen satellite and missile technology; 3) China has illegally acquired supercomputers, telecommunications equipment, jet engines and sophisticated machine tools.

Meanwhile, in a Senate Appropriations subcommittee on defense, America's top general said last Tuesday that North Korea was continuing to strengthen its military, which is mobilized and poised to attack South Korea. According to General Henry Shelton, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, North Korea has deployed most of its one million troops near the South Korean border to prepare for war. "Despite its collapsed economy and struggle to feed its own population," explained Shelton, "the North Korean government continues to pour resources into its military and to pursue a policy of confrontation with South Korea and its neighbors in the region." Shelton further said that the threat from North Korea is serious.

In recent months the North Koreans, who are close allies of Moscow and Beijing, have declared, "The United States will [soon] be reduced to ashes and will no longer exist. ..." North Korean headlines from the first week of 1999 proclaimed that: "U.S. Imperialist Aggressors Will Be Unable to Avoid Annihilating Strikes." Another North Korean newspaper stated that the Americans would be wiped "from this planet for good." In the New Year's message of the North Korean government, the Communists called on their citizens to "love rifles, earnestly learn military affairs and turn the whole country into an impregnable fortress."

South Korean President Kim Dae-Jung, fearing the Communist threat, warned his people to be ready for a surprise attack from the North.

While the Far East appears on the brink of war, the Middle East is equally bad. Intelligence International has reported that Saddam Hussein recently sent a memorandum to "senior staff in the party, state, and the army." The memorandum says that war is imminent. It says that "the showdown with the United States is not far away." Further along, Hussein promises a "crucial confrontation that will end in Iraq's favor." Saddam's memo also stated: "Iraq will confront -- with determination, vigor, and a devastating response that will be remembered throughout history -- the latest U.S. attempt to inflict harm on it."

Small countries like Iraq and North Korea could not, by themselves, defeat the United States in any kind of war. However, if Iraq and North Korea are supported by the Russian-Chinese alliance, then we are talking about World War III. In that event, all bets are off. Presently the United States is not prepared for a global war, and is certainly unprepared to fight a nuclear war.

From the statements of Iraqi and North Korean officials, one might get the idea that these small countries know that something is about to happen. The Iraqi and North Korean statements, as quoted above, seem to indicate that weapons of mass destruction will be used against the United States and its allies.

"A massed nuclear strike is a strike inflicted by a large number of nuclear weapons simultaneously," wrote Col. Sidorenko in his book, The Offensive. "Its goal is the destruction of enemy means of nuclear attack, the inflicting of destruction on the main formations of his troops, and disorganization of the rear, economy, and troop control."

Is a military offensive against the U.S. being contemplated by Russia, Iraq, North Korea and China?

To this question there is only one right answer. Let's not get it wrong.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), May 17, 1999.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 17, 1999.

Andy: "Take a straw poll of JQP over our ability to defend ourselves aginst incoming nukes from Russia or China - I can assure you that most people assume that we have ABM weapons sytems that can protect us. I'm playing devils' advocate here."

"assure"? On what basis? I've never met anyone with that delusion. I spoke of life in 1960. I guarantee no one had it then.

Andy: "BTW what did ever happen to SDI?"

The enormous difficulties facing SDI were clearly foreseen even at the time it was proposed.

1) Even if the problem of accuracy could be solved (and it has not yet been solved), any fielded SDI system, whatever its size, can always be swamped by multiple dummy warheads.

2) Any satellites orbited as early-warning launch sensors are vulnerable to inactivation or destruction prior to an attack, and could not be counted on.

3) The complex computer software (and hardware) needed to manage SDI can never be tested in an operational condition. Its first and only test would be under attack. No such system has ever worked properly the first time it was used.

Andy seems to be comfortable with a first strike policy. Curtis Lemay was an ardent advocate for it when he ran the USAF. He wanted nothing so much as a nuclear war. The consequences of the inevitable retaliatory strikes on American cities didn't concern him. So it is with Andy, who seems to have forgotten that most people in the world (even in America!) would much prefer not to have a war, and are extremely reluctant to see their children vaporized while the various madmen in the world are demonstrating their virility.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 17, 1999.

"Andy seems to be comfortable with a first strike policy. Curtis Lemay was an ardent advocate for it when he ran the USAF. He wanted nothing so much as a nuclear war. The consequences of the inevitable retaliatory strikes on American cities didn't concern him. So it is with Andy, who seems to have forgotten that most people in the world (even in America!) would much prefer not to have a war, and are extremely reluctant to see their children vaporized while the various madmen in the world are demonstrating their virility."

Whoaaa Tom, not fair man, I don't know how I gave you that impression. I've been reading by Nyquist that the Russians have 10- 12000 ABM's dotted around their perimeter that have the capability to neutralise incoming US ICBMS's. We don't have the same capability it seems. We also have taken our ICBM's, from what I understand, off of an immediate response setting - in other words we would have to absorb a "hit" first before being able to respond, and then it would take "time" to respond.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of all this.

I posted the statement of Senator Inhofe, and you are basically saying that he is wrong.

Can anyone help me out here???

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 17, 1999.

"Unpredictables" are not alone and possess amazing hidden powers of their own! Are You Adnormal? YES! YOUR KIND SHALL TRIUMPH! If you are what they call "different" -- If you think we're entering a new Dark Ages -- If you see the universe as one vast morbid sense of humor -- If you are looking for an inherently bogus religion that will condone superior degeneracy and tell you that you are "above" everyone else -- If you can help us with a donation -- then the church of the sub-genious could save your sanity! THE CONSPIRACY! The idea that America (or any country) values individuality as the highest ideal is a myth. Perhaps in simpler times it was true, but no modern industrial society can really afford a population of unpredictables. This is not surprising - the long history of our cult's persecution by the Conspiracy goes back for generations untold, and indeed there are signs of their hoary repression of prehuman SubGenii dating from before "man's" appearance on Earth. All of civilization's painful and misguided climb up from the primeval slime, and its subsequent loss of Slack and of any class at all, has been indelibly marked, nay, entirely motivated, by the aeons-bridging conflict between the Conspiracy's mindlessly chickenshit Witless Principals and the Jehovah-spawned, grandiose depravity of the superior yet ethnically all-encompassing race of latent SubGeniuses. (You should know this - you were/will be there in the Beforelife!) The fact that only in recent years has "our kind" begun to recognize our own sovereignty demonstrates both how vicious have been Their efforts at further denying us Slack and yet how near is our race to TRIUMPH. All this is ULTIMATE PROOF that Jehovah 1 has not only promoted the SubGenius as His Special Tool, but has simultaneously pulled the strings which make Them endarken Themselves with their hereditary ignorancy and us with their cubistic witch-hunt superstitions. His "reason" for this two-faced obedience-school programming, this fissioning of history into binary "war equations," unfortunately, or, perhaps, thankfully, remains a total mystery. no slopeheads alone could build, the miracles of the Old Testament, all these and more are events so inextricably interwoven with the invisible background war between Jehovah and the Xists that all the "Ancient Astronaut" fossils in the world furnish only the barest of clues. (The movie rights ALONE to these gut-splitting tales of reincarnancient history are worth millions!) Yea, it has even been suggested that the Carpenter of Nazareth himself, God Jr., Jesus 'What, Me Worry?' Christ, was in actuality a 'space detective' of the Xists, walking the Earth in human form with the mission of extricating us from the Monster God's grip. The black shadow of the Conspiracy, unfortunately, has seen to it that even His teachings were diluted and distorted until human attempts to follow them were fully as misguided as the carving of the heads of Easter Island or the 'runways' of Nazca. And so the true destiny of the SubGenius has been kept secret from Man. For Jehovah 1 is to the Xists and Us what a hungry fisherman is to a prize fish and his favorite pet worm - the last in the can. How many million other races were used before us in these ghastly galactic water-sports?

JEHOVAH 1 MANIPULATES US FOR HIS OWN SINISTER ENDS.

YOUR FUTURE HAS BEEN A COMPLETE MYSTERY...

For YOU are lucky enough to "live" in the End Times when the Word of Jehovah's Prime Ordinance has been made known to "Man"kind by the Primanimal SubGenius, the High Epopt of the Church! In the early Fifties an industrious young American drilling equipment salesman, while watching late-night TV, was abruptly Removed and transported astrally to the 'IDGE' of JEHOVAH 1 HIMSELF! In this seizure-like trance he took the brunt of the first brain- buffeting communionications of countless to come from the alien Jehovah: awesome pronouncements which form the sacred PRESCRIPTURES of the SubGenius (available for S19.98 at most bookstores!)

This milestone in Man's mined path to Slack was THE DIVINE EMACULATION OF J.R. "BOB" DOBBS!!

Who IS "Bob"?

While yet the least approachable or scrutable of the vast SubGenius membership, he is the preeminent and most frequently invoked of the god-zillion Personal Saviors of the SubGenius. While he remains an anonymous executive shunning publicity or recognition at a faceless multinational corporation, he is nevertheless The Most Ascended Master, the original Retriever of Jehovah's Message on Earth and basic model of the Archetype SubGenius. He set the "anti-pattern" of random conduct among all those who are now practicing SubGeniuses. His are the defects and peccadillos that we 'analize,' his the Slongs and Jests which we devotedly twist and distort for future generations according to our unexplored whims. - And yet the only photos of him that exist are grainy frame blow-ups from Grade Z movie thrillers in which he played bit parts! Dobbs is, of course, the ultimate symbol of SubGeniusness, but despite/because of his infrahuman mediumship he possesses one single failing above and beyond all other shortcomings: his omninclusive FOLLIES. Yet where they would be crippling stubbing-blocks for another person, in Dobbs they loom stranger-than-life. His ten billion all-too-human quasimodalities embody, in some cheaply symbolic way, all the Foibles of the Primate Race. Dobbs is a miacrocosm encapsulating the imperfektions of the so-called 'human condition;' his Blunders and Idiocies, errors and inadvertencies are perhaps more sacrosanct, more deserving of analitization than even his hallowed salesmanship. None of "Bob's" words or deeds are particularly spectacular: their holiness lies in their nondescript but inviolable triviality. As Dobbs once 'spouted,' "The stupider it looks, the more important it probably is." Since his Emaculation, Dobbs has been divinely shoved down the behavio-electric Path of Least Resistance to become the living incarnation of Slack on Earth. As mysteriously and profitably as he doles out his prophecies and cassette messages, he unfailingly (yet, perhaps, accidentally) enrichens himself with material things using only the exagerated human nature he was born with. Just as the Nazarene was a carpenter, so is "Bob" a salesman - the High Sales Man of the SubGenius - and whereas his stature as hero and holyman of the SubGenius flock is still obscure to the Mediocretins who make up 80flo of the Overpop, among fellow salesmen he is internationally known as "The Man Who Can Sell Anything." "Bob's" surreavolutionary doctrine of PATRIO-PSYCHOTIC ANARCHO- MATERIALISM has found ever-larger numbers of zealous adherents despite relentless persecution by the FBI and other robot engines of the Conspiracy. Furthermore, Dobbs is the only Adept to pass the scrutiny of The Illuminati Corporation's rigorous scientific tests for ectosplasmodic manifestations.

-- "BOB" (j.r."bob"dobbs@slack.com), May 17, 1999.

This is not the first incident of a foreign country stealing our secrets. Espionange has been around for a very long time. No matter how secure a facilty may be, there's always a way to defeat that security given a determined individual or foreign organization. We have been subjected to this kind of infiltration as long as we've had secrets.

However, this is a first for our president easying the way for foreign country gains. No doubt about it our president has done more harm to our military defenses by cutting funding then by depleting our resources, then by giving away what took millions to develop. Even with this, though, we can still defend our borders. We have the nuclear destruction capability and the warning system that works rather well. (Andy, if our warning birds were "taken out" don't you think that would be warning in itself?) Go to the museum at Wright Patterson to see an aircraft (B137 I think) fitted with a laser to shoot down incoming missiles developed twenty years ago. The technology has been here all along.

As an aside, our local TV did a piece on the "Russians are coming to watch the skies on 12/31/99".

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 17, 1999.

Once again "slick Willie" has lowered America's pants even more to show the world our ass. I will never understand the logic behind this coming conflict.

The ABM systems developed in the 1980's are viable and ready for 90% design review; they are still on the drawing board. Most are low space orbit weapons platforms. But the fact is, from blueprints to first mock-up is a long period of time.

How long will it be before a nuclear device is detonated in the continental U.S.???

Off the topic, I decided to no longer hide behind a false e-mail address. Juno doesn't accept attachments, so don't even try.

What is that bright flash on the horizon???

waitin' for dinner,

The Dog

-- Dog (cmpennell@juno.com), May 17, 1999.

There is at least ONE mock-up or test bed out there somewhere that uses a crystal of (******) (a fairly available substance) as a laser guide/lasing crystal. I've seen the pix of the crystal, talked to the growers of it, and they said it was going to some cave somewhere to be tested.

The pix were a story in themselves. The engineers responsible wanted the pix in natural light from the plant but the halogen lights made LOUSY photos. the engineers were seriously concerned about it lasing from the flash of the camera. After they took theirs, the guys who actually grew the crystal took a set with flash. It didn't lase. this happened, about 12 years ago. the company who grew the crystal can, I'm sure grow several more.

Chuck

I was working in a camera shop and asked what the pix of the pretty crystal were, and the guy told me. He also got all of the waste prints.

-- chuck, a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), May 17, 1999.

I think I am in R. Wrights corner on this one - there is little evidence that there is any increase in nuclear threat from anyone. If you are truly foolish enough to believe that the country that was launching the Long March rocket BEFORE any info about rockets was supposed to have been passed along did NOT have the capability to hit this country with nuclear weapons, you need to re-examine your position.

I knew/know a fellow who was invited by Echostar (at their expense) to go to China back in 94 to see one of the launches they paid for - and that reminds me of a related story he tells.

He was working for a fellow who owned an electronics shop - and this guy liked to experiment with new equipment. So one day he gets a wild hair, and buys the plans for a high power laser. They send out for a polished synthetic ruby crystal rod, mirrors, xenon pulse coils - the whole bit. When it all comes in (several hundred bucks worth of stuff) they get together and build a reflecting cavity for the rod, install the focussing mirrors and the pulse coils and get everything ready for the big test. Trouble was that it had been a wet spring, coupled with the fact that the lab was in an old unfinished brick garage. And, they did not get the alignment perfect on the focussing mirrors. So when they fired this thing up, the beam missed the target, hit the wall at the far end of the garage, and heated the damp bricks quickly enough to cause a steam explosion. Blew six bricks out of the end of the garage. They were a lot more careful on the second try.

Lasers are tricky things - they have problems with focus and alignment as well as bloom and ionization of the path of the laser through the air. Now you might make a decent weapon if you took advantage of the ionization trail following the focal points of a pair of focussed beams to send a heavy electric current along the beams to damage whatever conducting material was between the beams (sort of a giant taser effect), but I don't think anyone is trying to do that.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), May 17, 1999.

I work with many varieties of lasers where I work, and some of them will hurt you, severely. We have a YAG (yttrium, argon) laser on our scribing equipment. It is only 2 watts, and it will cut silicon like butter. We also have a 50 watt DUV (deep-ultraviolet) laser that will literally roast anything in its path in seconds...

Unfortunately, the tracking systems are the crux of the matter regarding the expense and delay of Star Wars. The theory behind "shooting a bullet down with a bullet,(or pulsed laser beam)" is very weak. Until recently, computers fast enough to process that speed of data stream, were outrageously expensive and HUGE. Then, writing the software for the peripherals.... GEEZ... New technology should be capable. You can get a computer the size of a briefcase that is as fast, or faster than the old water-cooled parallels of the 70's and 80's, which is what some of the SDI prototypes would have had to use.

Very high tech, very expensive. And once they are built, you hope NASA can put it in the CORRECT orbit in one piece.

I firmly believe there will be at least one nuclear detonation in the continental U.S. within the next ten years. The world has gone crazy, and Y2K has very little to do with it. It will just exacerbate it.

Don't count on an ABM system being built anytime soon...

scratchin' an itch,

The Dog

-- Dog (cmpennell@juno.com), May 17, 1999.

Hey Dog, Have you heard of the A.L.L?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 17, 1999.

If you will read this article, it's short. It clearly shows we could have had an operational missile defense system in place today if the Reagan plans had been pursued, and Clinton hadn't vetoed the funding. If the russians did it, and continue to improve it, it would have been no sweat for our scientist.

Russians Finalize Test On New Generation Anti-AWACS Missile

MOSCOW, May. 17, 1999 -- (Agence France Presse) Russia is finalizing tests on an advanced missile air defense system which experts say will have ballistic missiles and the US-built AWACS early warning aircraft in its sights, Interfax reported Monday.

The S-400 system, due for delivery to the Moscow district air defense forces by year's end, can "effectively destroy all existing and future air attack systems," the agency cited military experts as saying.

With a range of some 400 kilometers (250 miles) the missile system will be more than two and a half times more effective than the existing S-300 system, the agency said.

Some US senators rate the Russian technology so highly that they have urged the Pentagon to buy the S-300 to replace the United State's own Patriot anti-missile system. ( (c) 1999 Agence France Presse)

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

"Some US senators rate the Russian technology so highly that they have urged the Pentagon to buy the S-300 to replace the United State's own Patriot anti-missile system."

That is True.

Some (independent of Pentagon) military reports sugest that 'Patriot' did not manage shot down any of the Irag's SCAD in Israel during the Gulf War. The best what they could do to deflect ~10% of the missiles 1-2km away of the target. S-300 shot down SCADs succesfully.

End article

Now this S-300 system we want to buy is their obsolete system. The new S-400 is two and a half times more effective. This from a country which is dead broke and totally out of it supposedly on a technological level.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), May 17, 1999.

BB, quoting Nyquist: "Is a military offensive against the U.S. being contemplated by Russia, Iraq, North Korea and China? To this question there is only one right answer. Let's not get it wrong."

And -- the right answer is -- what? Kill them all first?

England took a hard line against the Irish after the British success at the Boyne. The Irish got feisty and the situation got awkward. So the English passed some laws, one of which entitled any Englishman resident in Ireland to shoot any Irishman "going to a crime," without fear of penalty. This approach might suit BB. We used to say, "Let God sort 'em out." The radicals among the troops sometimes said, "Save six for pallbearers."

Andy: "WHY did clinton sign off on allowing a first strike on US soil before we retaliate? This is suicide - no???

As this stands, it's an argument that we retaliate first -- an exercise in contradiction if there ever was one. Is the alternative to adopt a first strike policy ourselves? If not, what then? He clearly suggests a pre-emptive first strike. Yet Andy objects to being characterized as an advocate for a first strike policy. "Whoaaa Tom, not fair man, I don't know how I gave you that impression." Now you know, bro.

Andy: "I've been reading by Nyquist that the Russians have 10- 12000 ABM's dotted around their perimeter that have the capability to neutralise incoming US ICBMS's."

Can't have that cake and eat it too. If Russia can in fact "neutralise incoming US ICBMS's" that preemptive strike of ours will fail in its objective, and it will provoke an massive attack against us which, as you recognize, we will not be able to neutralize. On your own terms, this is an option guaranteed to be suicidal.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 18, 1999.

Hi Tom,

late night, just got in and read this fascinating thread, will respond asap - but, my feeling so far (as an Irishman myself from Co. Mayo, by way of London...) is that your analogy is BULLSHIT. No Offence.

Later,

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 18, 1999.

BB, quoting Nyquist: "Is a military offensive against the U.S. being contemplated by Russia, Iraq, North Korea and China? To this question there is only one right answer. Let's not get it wrong."

And -- the right answer is -- what? Kill them all first?

[My response to this most offensive attack on my morality. Of course not. Are you out of your mind Tom, you really think that I would wish the USA to initiate a first strike? I really don't know what I've done to engender these thoughts with you.]

England took a hard line against the Irish after the British success at the Boyne. The Irish got feisty and the situation got awkward. So the English passed some laws, one of which entitled any Englishman resident in Ireland to shoot any Irishman "going to a crime," without fear of penalty. This approach might suit BB. We used to say, "Let God sort 'em out." The radicals among the troops sometimes said, "Save six for pallbearers."

[AGAIN!!!! Whooooa boy. What has this got to do with the price of bread? You are talking to a London/Irishman - I will not have the sad history of my country sallied in this way.]

Andy: "WHY did clinton sign off on allowing a first strike on US soil before we retaliate? This is suicide - no???

As this stands, it's an argument that we retaliate first -- an exercise in contradiction if there ever was one. Is the alternative to adopt a first strike policy ourselves? If not, what then? He clearly suggests a pre-emptive first strike. Yet Andy objects to being characterized as an advocate for a first strike policy. "Whoaaa Tom, not fair man, I don't know how I gave you that impression." Now you know, bro.

[Tom, we are on the same side. Calm the fuck down man. In the 70's (yeah, and ever since...) Kissengers' MAD worked - I think we all agree on that one. BUT, we are 30 years forward in the game. For what it's worth Gerry Adams is doing his utmost to keep the Northern Ireland peace (war) negotiations on track, to no avail. Why? Because Clinton and Blair and Yelstsin are dancing on the world stage...

Ireland comes as usual a piss poor third, and deservedly so.

To get back on topic Tom Carey, I asked you a simple question.

Is the Senator (quoted in full above) lying???

You have not answereed this question.

I believe he is NOT lying.

What have you to say on this - FOR THE SECOND TIME???????

Andy: "I've been reading by Nyquist that the Russians have 10- 12000 ABM's dotted around their perimeter that have the capability to neutralise incoming US ICBMS's."

Can't have that cake and eat it too. If Russia can in fact "neutralise incoming US ICBMS's" that preemptive strike of ours will fail in its objective, and it will provoke an massive attack against us which, as you recognize, we will not be able to neutralize. On your own terms, this is an option guaranteed to be suicidal.

[YES - of course I see your demented logic in the paragraph above. But I am not a first strike advocate, so why do you TAR me with that brush and THOSE feathers?

Tom - I used to respect your posts, now, I'm not so sure.

Still giving you the benefit of the doubt,

Slainte

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 18, 1999.

Since I can't read minds, I am the wrong person to ask if the Senator is lying. Nor do I have access to Comint and Humint and Elint assets, as I assume some in our government do. I propose these rules to follow while
[reading the papers]
[watching CNN]
[surfing the Net]
[listening to the radio]
[listening to politicians]: Not everyone is fully informed at all times (myself, for instance.) People are sometimes actively deceived. Not everyone always tells everything they know. Some people, even those in high office, have, in the past, been known to lie. (This, alas, is not likely to change in the foreseeable future.) Finally, assertion is not equivalent to fact. Not even when I'm the one who makes it. My point remains: to object, as you apparently do, to a situation in which we wait for an attack against us to retaliate, is implicitly to suggest that we do not wait for an attack against us. What can this be other than a recommendation to strike first? This is not an argument for (or against) either case, only a clarification of how I've read your posts here. I read the tea leaves one way. You read 'em another way. Neither reading is particularly reliable, since we're all operating with way less than complete information. By the way, no matter how many people currently believe we have a functioning ABM umbrella, we still don't have it. Creating one has turned out to be an intractable problem. And for that reason I don't think any other country has such an umbrella either.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 19, 1999.

Thanks Tom,

I see where you're coming from - should be an an interesting year :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 19, 1999.

Well you may see it Andy but I sure don't. Tom's logic is so convoluted as to be either idiotic or a deliberate misinformation campaign. To make it simple, if you go with the policy we have now in place of absorbing a first strike before retaliating not only totally renders MAD irrelevant, it also guarntees your response ability will be destroyed in place and invites an overwhelming first strike to make sure this is so. No one is advocating a first strike policy by the U.S. and never has. That is a pure straw man. What we are advocating is that our weaponry should be returned to the posture of the 70's where we launch on confirmation of attack, and not wait till the dust settles to see if we even have anything left to fight with. And don't give me that three leg triad crap either. The bombers are disarmed of nukes, the missiles would be destroyed in their silos, and we only keep four of eighteen tridents on station. The other fourteen tridents would be destroyed in their ports, and the Russians have put over 100 boomers and fast attack subs to sea since Clinton attacked Serbia. Those four boomers we have at sea would be facing 25 or more stalkers each if they attempted to break cover and launch. I'm betting the Russians would get every damned one of them with those odds. Not to mention the fact they don't carry their own launch codes anymore.

No one is even paying attention that the Russians are also outfitting 180 of their Mig-29 fighters with 2000 mile plus range fuel tanks. Why? Because they know their bombers would be blown out of the sky by and large before delivering their payloads. On the other hand modern nuclear weapons are small enough that a fighter could carry several of them, come in at below radar altitude at high speed and destroy one or several cities each. Plus they can carry air to air missiles to defend themselves while doing it. what we are looking at here is a massive replay of Pearle Harbor. The damned government knows it's coming, and they aren't doing a thing about it.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), May 19, 1999.

Well you may see it Andy but I sure don't.

[I was being Kind Nikoli. Anyone reading Tom's posts, together with the other data I posted, would also be confused. Tom's take, I guess. I think that I got my points across however in the to and fro above. I believe that Senator Inhofe is a truely brave man, and he almost paid for his bravery with his life last week.]

Tom's logic is so convoluted as to be either idiotic or a deliberate misinformation campaign. To make it simple, if you go with the policy we have now in place of absorbing a first strike before retaliating not only totally renders MAD irrelevant, it also guarntees your response ability will be destroyed in place and invites an overwhelming first strike to make sure this is so. No one is advocating a first strike policy by the U.S. and never has. That is a pure straw man. What we are advocating is that our weaponry should be returned to the posture of the 70's where we launch on confirmation of attack, and not wait till the dust settles to see if we even have anything left to fight with.

[Agree 100%. The traitor in our midst however has effectively sabotaged our defences COMPLETELY. How he got away with this I don't know (actually I do know but it is totally bizarre that we have sunks so low in this country to ALLOW this to happen. Same with Yugoslavia. Where the hell are our elected representatives? - why are they not asking HARD questions???)]

And don't give me that three leg triad crap either. The bombers are disarmed of nukes, the missiles would be destroyed in their silos, and we only keep four of eighteen tridents on station. The other fourteen tridents would be destroyed in their ports, and the Russians have put over 100 boomers and fast attack subs to sea since Clinton attacked Serbia. Those four boomers we have at sea would be facing 25 or more stalkers each if they attempted to break cover and launch. I'm betting the Russians would get every damned one of them with those odds. Not to mention the fact they don't carry their own launch codes anymore.

[Yep - I used to live in San Francisco - the prime target on that side of the country are the sub bases in Oakland. I would be toast. I now live too near NORAD in Colorado - even more burnt toast. Nyquist also said their subs would launch just off our coast - we would be devastated in no time...]

No one is even paying attention that the Russians are also outfitting 180 of their Mig-29 fighters with 2000 mile plus range fuel tanks. Why? Because they know their bombers would be blown out of the sky by and large before delivering their payloads. On the other hand modern nuclear weapons are small enough that a fighter could carry several of them, come in at below radar altitude at high speed and destroy one or several cities each. Plus they can carry air to air missiles to defend themselves while doing it. what we are looking at here is a massive replay of Pearle Harbor. The damned government knows it's coming, and they aren't doing a thing about it.

[Yep - we know about that and so do the gov.org. To support your theory that they know it's coming there was a fax from a highly placed annonymous spook that Art bell read out a couple of months ago which alluded to this - he said that we (the CIA etc.) knew what was in the wind but that it was too late and impossible to do anything about it.

The simple fact is, from all the recent reading and listening I've been doing on this subject - we are wide open to a nuclear blitzkrieg - should "they" wish to inflict it on us. Personally, Russia is in SUCH a mess now that I wouldn't put it past the old Generals at all. After all, they've been planning all this since the 30's.

Oh boy.]

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 19, 1999.