Atlanta misses mark on computer bug

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Besides getting a late 1998 start, Atlanta fired one of its primary contractors just a few weeks ago. I seem to remember that the contractor felt the contract was terminated because the contractor would not hire subs recommended by a councilperson. The contractor is suing the city for millions of dollars.

The city is so far behind at this point, it seems hopeless. Atlanta is toast. How is your city doing?

From Access Atlanta and the Atlanta Journal/Constitution

http://www.accessatlanta.com/news/1999/05/16/y2k_atlanta.html

Excerpts:

City officials have all but abandoned attempts to get many of their 3,000 personal computers ready to handle the rollover from 1999 to 2000--the "Y2K bug" that is threatening computer operations worldwide. Faced with setbacks that have put the city months behind its original deadline for Y2K compliance, computer experts are concentrating on essential systems, including public safety, traffic, payroll and waste water treatment....

McCall [Atlanta's administrative services commissioner] termed the city's Y2K mission an "emergency" in a late April appearance before the City Council's Finance/Executive Committee, and told council members that work on one of the "mission critical" systems will continue well into November. Many others, including the city's Criminal Justice Information System and its wide area network, two of its most extensive and complex systems, are not scheduled to be compliant until the end of October, four months after Mayor Bill Campbell's original deadline for citywide compliance, June 30. Two critical systems, including a payroll program, aren't scheduled for completion until Jan. 1....

Dolinsky [executive director of the Atlanta-Southeast Region Y2K Solutions Center] and Flores [chief executive of Bretton Woods Inc., a consulting firm that advises public and private organizations on Y2K programs] both said the city needs to have a lengthy and detailed contingency plan for functioning without computers. "They are so far behind the curve right now, they've got to focus almost entirely on contingency planning," Flores said.

-- Uhm... (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), May 16, 1999

Answers

Excellent article. Here's the hotlink for it:

http://www.accessatlanta.com/news/1999/05/16/y2k_atlanta.html

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), May 16, 1999.


As a computer contractor myself, I feel that you're being premature in your assumptions that Atlanta is "toast" because one contractor was fired. Also, the 3,000 PC's mentioned requiring remediation would perhaps benefit from this delay as vendors such as Microsoft continue to update their Y2k patches. I haven't, myself, updated my P.C. for Y2k changes.

Regarding your question "How is your city doing?", my city is doing just fine. I've been in contact with my local officials since August of 1998. Their entire remediation was complete in December of 1998. Lest you think I dealt with the politicians, I assure you I did NOT. I dealt with the people in charge of water, sewage, etc.

I've also contracted at a major city nearby. While I was there, I saw the Fire System Y2k remediated (AND moved into production), as well as the POLICE system. Their old 911 system was NOT compliant, so they implemented a new one that was. Of course this was a LARGE system, as opposed to simple upgrades to P.C.'s.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 16, 1999.


Anita,

Gee, you sure make it sound easy. I guess we have been worrying about these cities for no good reason. Now I can breath easier about DeeCee too, knowing that if they only jump on it, a couple months of hard work and they'll be ready. Same for the airports, I suppose. I remember reading about a city down in Florida that got 2 proposals for remediation. One was in the millions and would take many months to finish, the other was less than a million and could be handled very quickly. They took the cheaper one and now are done, they say. I had been doubting their success, but after reading your post it would appear that a quick fix is certainly possible. Thanks for the info.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), May 16, 1999.


Let me translate this article to anti-mumble:

Mumble, mumble, "City officials have all but abandoned attempts to get many of their 3,000 personal computers ready to handle the rollover from 1999 to 2000," mumble, mumble, "computer experts are concentrating on essential systems, including public safety, traffic, payroll and waste water treatment" (no mention of drinking water, sanitation, paying bills, street repairs, street maintenance, traffic signal repair, health dept. services, parks and rec operation, or any of a myriad of other services routinely provided by big cities).

Mumble, mumble, "Atlanta's administrative services commissioner termed the city's Y2K mission an 'emergency,'" mumble, mumble, "the city's Criminal Justice Information System and its wide area network, two of its most extensive and complex systems, are not scheduled to be compliant until the end of October," mumble, mumble.

"Two critical systems, including a payroll program, aren't scheduled for completion until Jan. 1" (and this is one of the few they're actually CONCENTRATING on), mumble, mumble.

Mumble, mumble, "executive director of the Atlanta-Southeast Region Y2K Solutions Center. . . and [the] chief executive of . . .a consulting firm that advises public and private organizations on Y2K programs both said the city needs to have a lengthy and detailed contingency plan for functioning without computers. 'They are so far behind the curve right now, they've got to focus almost entirely on contingency planning,' Flores said."

Not very encouraging.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 16, 1999.


Old Git,

Thanks for the translation, and I agree with you. It seems that your "take" on this matter is the most common one reported all across the land. Therefore, I was puzzled by Anita's seemingly waving this away. I know you are posting a lot of very good information on food preparation, so is this answer from you another example of "separating the wheat from the chaff?.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), May 16, 1999.



We ought to get used to people "sweeping it away." Thoughts that exceed one's threshold of acceptability are thoughts that can't be acknowledged. Some folks have lower thresholds than others. We all know some of them.

And don't forget --each of has that personal threshold of acceptability.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 16, 1999.


This response is for Gordon.

Extrapolations of the progress of one city to another serve no purpose, and that suggestion is indeed faulty. You ASKED how MY (in the general sense of other posters reading) city was doing, and I provided that information, as well as information on a more major city at which I've engaged in computer work. I responded with the information that I've acquired during the past two years of observing the Y2k phenomenon unfold. YOUR city may indeed not be in the same state.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 16, 1999.


Thank you Anita. The information you provided is encouraging. Care to give us a heads-up as to which part of the world you are reporting on?

Please don't take Gordon's reaction to heart. Each of us may bark from time to time, but I assure you solid anecdotal information is very important if we are to continue to get a feel for Y2K progress both in the U.S & abroad.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), May 16, 1999.


Anita,
I've also contracted at a major city nearby. While I was there, I saw the Fire System Y2k remediated (AND moved into production), as well as the POLICE system. Their old 911 system was NOT compliant, so they implemented a new one that was. Of course this was a LARGE system, as opposed to simple upgrades to P.C.'s.
Do you have a point of contact that could provide the list of vendors whose software and hardware make up the configuration that you refer to?

Thanks,

Critt

-- Critt Jarvis (middleground@critt.com), May 16, 1999.

This response is for Critt.

The hardware for the City at which I contracted was/still is an IBM mainframe. The software for the Police and Fire systems was created inhouse by IT employees of the City. Actually, I doubt that I would be amiss in my confidentiality agreement in stating that this city is the City of Fort Worth, Texas.

I don't know who the vendor is in the 911 upgrade. I only know that while I contracted with the City of Fort Worth...working on another area of the Police System, one of the employees attended a seminar in Los Angeles to learn of the 911 system. With the Year 2000 problems foremost in my mind, I asked him if the new system was compliant. He replied, "Yes. Our current system is NOT. That's the whole purpose in purchasing this new system." It was my understanding that the City of Arlington, Texas was also attending this seminar to understand the intricacies involved in the new 911 system also. I don't know if my city has purchased this same software.

Regarding a point of contact, I STILL communicate with the folks at the City of Fort Worth. In fact, I have a permanent position presumably waiting there for me when the non-compete clause on my contract expires. If you'd like more information on the 911 system chosen, please E-mail me and I will forward your request.

If I have given the impression that these Year 2000 changes were moved into production without a hitch, I will state here that this was NOT the case. The changes were moved into production in STAGES, and at EACH stage SOMETHING failed, requiring extra effort on the part of the permanent employees. However, I will ALSO add that corrections were made quickly and the general populace suffered not at all. As programmers, we EXPECT to suffer from these maladies, so I won't include programmers in the general populace.

Forgive me if I haven't addressed your questions completely. Perhaps an elucidation is required if I have not.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 16, 1999.



Hi, Gordon, the reason I post all that gardening stuff is because I don't know that much about gardening in the US, specifically the South. All my previous info comes from watching my father in that long-tamed green and pleasant land. As I learn bits and pieces suitable for a relatively inexperienced urban or suburban gardener in the US, I pass it on.

My decades of experience in various and sundry circumstances and locales led me to grasp immediately the implications of Y2K, as it did for Sweetie. The focus turned just as quickly to the practicalities of dealing with potential problems. And in this city of 160,000, where the Water and Sewer Department, for instance, is in complete and utter disarray, and where the Council is a joke, I have no doubt that Y2K will cause severe problems. There is no amount of sheer luck that will enable this city's computerized operations to pass into the Year 2000 without major trauma. I fear the County will be in the same boat.

Add to this that I discern no evidence of preparation when I glance at people's shopping carts. People just don't believe anything will go wrong. Even though they were warned of serious problems the day, morning, afternoon and evening before Fran hit, a majority of residents DID NOT believe the reports and DID NOT stock up on anything to help them weather the days of power outages that followed. We provided hot water (for morning coffee) and a Sterno can for soup to an elderly couple across the street (until their children got through with hot food), as well as sharing our tiny battery-operated TV with them for news. They didn't even have a portable radio, and they could well have afforded to spend money on some basic supplies. They just didn't believe it would be that bad. And it's the same with Y2K.

I wish we lived in the city Anita is talking about, so we wouldn't have any problems.

-- Prepared Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 16, 1999.


Kevin, thanks for the hot link /:-)

Anita, one contractor does not usually a soup make. However, I should have noted that the terminated contract included 140 programmers - the contractor was the primary contractor.

Perhaps you will indulge another excerpt:

City memos indicate that the day ISN [the contractor] removed its 140 employees from City Hall, hope of avoiding all potential Y2K pitfalls in the city's technology left the building with them. A month earlier, a high-level technology employee with the city warned his superiors in an electronic message that Atlanta could not possibly reach its goal without the consultant's help.

"I believe we must work with ISN," wrote Larry W. Price, network operations manager for the city's Bureau of Management Information Systems. "To me, it's not a question of 'losing' with or without them; it's with them we have a chance, without them we lose for sure. It's way too late to try to start over."

End Excerpt.

I think this is an admission by city managers themselves that Atlanta is toast. Anita, I am glad to hear you are well and your local preps are well in hand. I also am interested in hearing from others regarding their local preparation as my personal prep is based to some extent upon the generality and intensity of the Y2K singularity. Is your city toast or jam?

As a tantgental issue, please note that this appeared in a well-read section of the Atlanta paper. Why do you think the in-towners (voters)are not storming City hall? (Flame off please - I live in Noth Atlanta and have only tenuous links to Atlanta itself - soon to be no links ;-).

Sincerely, Uhm...

-- Uhm... (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), May 16, 1999.


Anita -- Big-time kudos for responding to Critt with places and details!

As a general word, well-familiar to us all, I EXPECT thousands of cities/towns/villages to become "ready" this year. Our little village of 2K people will be (mainly) ready (and it took a surprising amount of work and effort though, like most things with Y2K, it was scut work, not rocket science: that is, a matter of will and energy).

As Anita herself acknowledges this is, alas, not incompatible with thousands of others NOT reaching compliance (Atlanta? DC?) because they screwed up the process and project.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), May 16, 1999.


Anita,

Ft. Worth, eh? This must be my lucky day.

Email coming your way.

Thanks,

Critt

-"Then sit back and watch, my Old Friend. I ain't got time to dicker."

-- Critt Jarvis (middleground@critt.com), May 16, 1999.


Anita,

Information is hard to come by. I appreciate what you have posted.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), May 16, 1999.



Here's the link to an article about Atlanta from March:

http://www.accessatlanta.com/news/1999/03/09/city.html

"Atlanta's Y2K plan in doubt"

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), May 16, 1999.


It's well-known that Y2K preparedness varies among cities, in some cases wildly. Some cities will breeze through, while others could find themselves with notable problems.

-- Drew Parkhill/CBN News (y2k@cbn.org), May 16, 1999.

Denver was one of the first cities to admit that much of their Y2K work will be fix-on-failure. This is from December 1998:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/news1213a.htm

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), May 16, 1999.


Anita - and others - you don't understand how far behind those guys down there actually are:

About the time Fort Worth was getting close to finishing (Nov 1998) - Atlanta let the contract to begin assessment and remediation. But they issued the contract to a national provider (who had done some work for the fed's and for the FAA - your choice of those are good recommendations or not!) with a demand that minority contractors be included in the work force.

The contractor began - but used a different minority contractor than the mayor's hand-picked list - and finished ASSESSMENT in late February, early March 1999 - about two years after Fort Worth got done with that stage. The mayor (Bill Campbell) then fired the company amid false charges because his minority contractor was not chosen, who then countersued and refused to release the assessment report becuase they were not paid for their efforts.

The matter is still in court - no assessment report issued to my knowledge, and little, if any actual remediation completed using preliminary data or other information. No testing complete either, of course.

Anita - I don't dispute that Atlanta could get finshed - it only takes time, money, and effort to solve the problem as you found in Fort Worth, and I found the smaller city of Marietta - ready in mid-Sept 1998.

But they (Atlanta) don't have the time, are not spending the money, and are misdirecting their efforts towards spending money that maximizes kickbacks to the mayor's friends. This is NOT the way to win friends and influence the y2K bug.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), May 17, 1999.


Sorry - after re-reading the link above, it's evident they began in Aug of 1998, not November.

Actually, that's worse -- it means that assessment took form Aug to Feb, which indicates repair will take even longer than they think: these guys may be busy well past March or April next year.

Bet that fist "live" test in January will be fun, won't it?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), May 17, 1999.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ