Kosovo, The Alamo of Europe

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An exellent eessay regarding Clinton's war in Serbia can be found @ www.jubilee-newspaper.com You owe it to yourself to read every word. Sorry, I don't know how to hot link it for you, maybe some else will. Keep up the fire.

-- B. Martin (potent308@hotmail.com), May 14, 1999


Here's the link:


-- Diane (
prepare@highlandtraders.com), May 14, 1999.

[ For Educational Purposes Only ]


Clinton deciding whether to cut Yugoslavia Internet access

5/14/99 -- 3:57 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) - Confronted with a dilemma of war in the information age, the Clinton administration is trying to decide whether its trade embargo extends to Internet access for some of Yugoslavia's citizens.

Loral Space and Communications Ltd. of New York said it may be forced to cut transmissions into Yugoslavia from one of its satellites, which serves at least two of the country's major Internet providers.

``We're still not clear on this whole thing,'' said Jeannette Colnan, a spokeswoman for Loral Space.

President Clinton issued an executive order two weeks ago banning U.S. companies from selling or supplying to Yugoslavia ``any goods, software, technology or services,'' although the order allows for the ``special consideration of the humanitarian needs of refugees.''

The National Security Council said information services are generally considered exempt from trade embargoes, but that electronic commerce is affected. The Internet performs both functions.

``We'll need to inquire further about the appropriate applications of the law,'' said David Leavy, a spokesman for the security council.

Loral Space said Thursday that it was discussing its obligations under the embargo with the Treasury Department, which didn't respond to requests for comment.

Experts said any move by the United States to limit civilian use of the Internet would be unprecedented.

NATO has already attacked Serbian broadcast stations to stem what it describes as propaganda, and Serbs have established an extraordinary network on the Internet criticizing ongoing air strikes.

But the Internet also serves as a conduit for civilians to receive unadulterated news reports about NATO efforts.

``The Internet remains at this point one of the major sources inside Yugoslavia for objective news reporting about the war,'' said Jim Dempsey of the Washington-based Center for Democracy and Technology.

Word of the threat to shut down Internet access to at least parts of Yugoslavia spread quickly across the global network, where it was condemned in some e-mail messages and online discussion groups.

``To put it bluntly, we somehow got used to air-raid sirens, bombings and threats of invasion, but we don't know how we're going to survive without the Internet,'' said Alex Krstanovic, cofounder of Beonet, one of the Internet providers in Yugoslavia.

But some argued that access should be cut off.

``Continuing to provide these services would be kind of like giving aid to the enemy,'' one person wrote.

The possible loss of Internet access also illustrated the fragility of the computer network and the importance assigned to it internationally.

Computer traffic in Yugoslavia uses both satellite and traditional land-based telephone lines, but the loss of the Loral satellite could dramatically reduce the Internet bandwidth available to citizens there, causing slow connections or even blackouts.

Web sites reliant on the Loral satellite continued to be accessible overnight Thursday, and there were no substantiated reports of anyone unable to retrieve information from outside the country using the Internet.

A spokeswoman at the organization that registers Web addresses ending with the country's ``yu'' suffix said that she was familiar with the reports but that there had been no problems yet.

Depriving the weeples of the Internet is going too far.

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), May 14, 1999.

Just wait until Clinton decides to do the same thing to Y2K forums like this one for "National Security".

Expect it. It's coming.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), May 14, 1999.


The day that that happens, is the day that ALL of us should visit SAMS/Costco and anywhere else that we can hit on our way home from work. I honestly believe when that happens, the government will actually cause the panic that they are wanting to avoid. If they shut down a site, news of the action would spread like wild fire throughout the net. The only way that it could be done is to actually STOP the net. Somehow, I doubt that they can do that.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), May 14, 1999.


Sure they can. Sattellites are easy to control. Telcos will be screwed up for awhile, but if they can do it to Yugoslavia, what makes you think they can't or won't here when their power base is in jeopardy? This is not to mention the ability for the ATF, FBI or FEMA to close down targeted servers. We wouldn't know what was actually going on, as this forum's servers get clogged quite regularly. A "Sorry server's busy" reply isn't going to get us all running to Sam's club.

If and when it happens, we won't know what is going on until a few days pass. Even then, it is effortless for a gov. spook to impersonate Mr. Yourdon or Greenspun and post a message saying the forum will be down for awhile while they upgrade the servers.

Panic at the inability for us to access the forum is not likely.

We won't know what hit us until it's too late. Whether Y2K, ANTI- HOARDING EO's, economic collapse, Jihad Biobombs, Chinese or Russian Nukes raining down on our heads, or ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Which is why you should be ready and prepared NOW.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), May 14, 1999.

Invar, I see what you are saying, and I am in the final stages of my preps. However, I must disagree with some of what you said.

I for one, would not panic if just one or two forums went down, but if every Y2K site that I visit were to suddenly close, due to whatever reason, I would question it. I would not only rely on my browser to check, but use the other tools to find if access to the machine were cut. I guess being a part of the "back-bone" helps in this aspect. If the IP of a site suddenly changed from the normal IP address, I would check that IP to find out who owns it. If it were a .gov then things would become a little clearer. Of course, the .gov could put the ping of death on them, so that not much traffic gets through, but I find that unlikely. Good thing about the net, is that there are multiple ways to get to anywhere, with the exception of that final connection to the machine. I find it hard to believe that they would try to control the lines of communication in such a way, as they would also be shooting themselves in their own feet. But, that is just my .02 worth.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), May 14, 1999.

Dear canot-say; Other than th eping of death, how would you close down the Net? first, the architecture, as I understand it makes this almost impossible. Second, closing it down, kills the .gov's own ARPA net, as well as their own access. The net is designed (used EXTREMELY loosely) to be self healing, or so I understand.


-- chuck, a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), May 14, 1999.


You are correct. It is self healing for the most part. Once the .gov allowed access to it, and the general public got "wired", it is almost impossible to kill. You could kill the true back-bone, but that would take way to many people who would question and be slow to respond. By the way, do you know just how many hops you are from the back-bone? Then ... there is the new I2 coming along... still small, but it is there.

On the side, could you imagine the cry against the freedom of press, freedom of free speech? I don't like lawyers, but can see that they would have a field day with this one.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), May 14, 1999.

"You are correct. It is self healing for the most part. Once the .gov allowed access to it, and the general public got "wired", it is almost impossible to kill. "

The ARPANET was originally designed to withstand nuclear attack - technologically, it is self re-routing. If, however, BJ Clinton decides to shutdown AOL, Mindspring and a few other major ISPs, "the 'net" would be parially shutdown.

My 2 cents...

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), May 14, 1999.

For whatever reason, one y2k forum has disappeared in the last week. Cnn is my homepage and the y2k forum could be accessed just by clicking on it. A week or so ago that thread disappeared and it was difficult to access the forum but now it has been removed.

-- Nadine Zint (nadine@hillsboro.net), May 14, 1999.

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