-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), May 13, 1999

Answers

Not much to say Cherri? Or is this a posting goof? By the way..."long awaited" has a hyphen in most language usage guides.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), May 13, 1999.

Another parody, I suspect

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 13, 1999.

THAT IS THE CORRECT ANSWER.

IT IS ALSO CORRECT FOR ALL THREE OF THESE PEOPLE.

BUT, a better answer would be "Who cares?" They will end with a whimper not a bang.

"Hamasaki: How bad, how long, who dies"

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000pMO

amasaki: How bad, how long, who dies

On Thu, 13 May 1999 02:30:11, sthel ler@koyote.com (Steve Heller) wrote:

> I don't think even a majority of companies will be ready in any industry. After 30 years > in the data processing industry, I've seen how projects really work: mostly, they are very > late or cancelled entirely. However, until the last moment, they are "on schedule". This > makes the late start even worse.

We don't have a chance. The open questions are how bad, how long, who dies.

-bks- is right in one sense. There's no real reason for a milne-infomagic die off, no reason in the sense that it is a physical law. It is possible to move the coal, food, goods, without computers.

Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world and people in one city will let food rot while 200 miles away, other people are starving. Unfortunately there is human sloth, fear, denial, and indifference.

At this point, we know to a moral certainty that the remediation has failed. Tom B and others have analyzed the stats. We've all read the cleverly written spin where assurances, hearty fist shaking, and powerful words disguise and ignore the questions, Are you done? Can you prove it? Have the tests been audited?

What confuses the issue for some is that there are indeed firms that are done. Some of us know what it took, the long days, the hard work, and we don't see that level of effort expended in general. When one of the polly's says, "It's fixed, it was simple." We wonder what problem they were working on. Two PeeCees on a peer Lan with 200 lines of VB, perhaps.

Those of us who had to ask for more time, more hardware, additional staff, negotiate extensions on software licenses (and the money for the extensions) wonder who do the pollys think their kidding.

I have a link to a specialty company that solely handles software license negotiations. They verify that your mainframe software is properly licensed and get the best price possible on time extensions, DSLO, group licenses, Entry Systems, Time Machine licenses, etc. They make money when you save money.

I've yet to see an article from the big-brained polly side that exhibits any depth of understanding of the enterprise systems business.

But yet, they want us to buy into the "No problems" fantasy.

> Steve Heller, WA0CPP

cory hamasaki http://www.kiyoinc.com/curr ent.html

For serious Y2K researchers, I have added a better transcript of Senator Bennett's talk at WDC Y2K.

For WRP regulars, I am working with two LED vendors. Stock up on alkaline D-cells.

-- a (a@a.a), May 13, 1999

-- Answers CorrectoMundo (Question.was@answered.com), May 13, 1999.

I do not think anyone who has seen me post would believe I wrote that. I would have misspelled "challenge".

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), May 13, 1999.

Cherri,

And an excellent response it is.

It certainly makes more sense than most of the smoke and handwaving that Cory's been publishing lately. :)

-- Stephen M. Poole, CET (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), May 13, 1999.

Whoever posted as Cherri spelled "challenge" correctly BTW.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), May 13, 1999.

Poole commented:

"It certainly makes more sense than most of the smoke and handwaving that Cory's been publishing lately. :) "

Poole, Cory Hammasaki has dedicated two long years to seeking the truth about y2k. He has spent much of his personal time uncovering facts on the subject.

You sir, do not deserve to walk in his shadow.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), May 13, 1999.

I think this whole Doomer vs. Polly thing has gotten completely out of hand. No wonder the whole damn world has gone insane. Supposedly intelligent people acting like babies. Actually, that's an insult to babies.

Sad, really...

-- . (.@...), May 13, 1999.

only the good die young

-- helium (heliumavid@yahoo.com), May 13, 1999.

no only the young die good

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), May 13, 1999.

the stupid (pollys) will die quickly the smart (pollys, like CET), will die slowly

but the vast majority of them WILL die...

-- doom (doom@gloo.m), May 13, 1999.

Ray,

You sir, do not deserve to walk in [Cory's] shadow.

You would probably be astonished to learn how little interest I have in doing so. :)

-- Stephen M. Poole, CET (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), May 14, 1999.

Cherri,

I didn't realize you didn't write the above.

Still, I think it'd be a great response, don't you? :)

-- Stephen M. Poole, CET (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), May 14, 1999.

>Cherri,

> I didn't realize you didn't write the above.

> Still, I think it'd be a great response, don't you? :)

> -- Stephen M. Poole, CET (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), May 14, 1999.

Poole-

If you think the empty response is appropriate, how 'bout if you pick up the torch and continue in a similar manner?

-- PLONK! (realaddress@hotmail.com), May 14, 1999.

This whole thing has become somewhat incredible. Looking at factual information makes you think things will come through pretty well. Looking at the rumors makes you think the world is gonna explode. Debunking the rumors and myths gets you chewed out by two groups - the people who have swallowed the myths and rumors whole (need salt with that?) and the guys who start the crap and spread it around, not to mention the out and out hoaxes. Facts are getting somewhat beat up in the process. To cap it all off, the lawyers keep anyone from making absolute promises of service, which helps to keep the rumor mill going. Plus the dudes who have something to sell ($150 bucks for three hours to tell me how to spend money!!!).

Trying to find the truth isn't easy - as both Socrates and Diogenes proved a long time ago.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), May 14, 1999.

PLONK,

Because it's a completely worthless challenge to start with. It proves nothing, 'cept maybe for the fact that overwhelmed IS/IT/data types are responsible for 90% of the doom and gloom about Y2K.

-- Stephen M. Poole, CET (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), May 14, 1999.

So yuo guys are going to ignore Doc Paulie's good advice? That figures, no new threads over there today, only a couple of posts on the older threads.

Why do the pollys do this? The site owner over there has asked adherent pollys to refrain from trolling over here but they can't do that because they're on a crusade to save us from memes. What's a meme? It's a mind virus (like a computer virus only different). OutingsR jesteth not. We at Yourdon forum are all infected. Memebusters don't give up. Just think of them as missionaries on acid. Or, if you prefer, think of them as Python Kuniggets on a crusade to find the Holy Grail.

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), May 14, 1999.

Outings

Maybe its because (despite your conspiratorial assumptions) the regulars on De-bunky are not some group of campfire boyscouts, chanting "were so far out on a limb on this one that we have to stick together to prop up each others wobbly psyche's when we get the occasional moment of reality . . oops . . i mean doubt" types. Maybe you have us confused with some "other" forum.

Indeed, the "pack instinct" in this forum is so evident as to have a tangible flavour. You even have a thread about DOGS now as if to underline the theory. Go read it. Its pertinent. At times its akin to watching a bunch of alley dogs sniffing each others butts and barking en-masse each time they hear a noise. Woof !!

We dont have to "obey" the "commands" of our "master". We're free thinking individuals, and if one person over there chooses to cut loose from this forum, it doesnt mean we're all going to. Sorry about that.

OK, on with the bark-fest.

-- DeBuNkR (dbunky@dbunkas.com), May 14, 1999.

Mr. Poole-

"...It proves nothing, 'cept maybe for the fact that overwhelmed IS/ IT/data types are responsible for 90% of the doom and gloom about Y2K."

where is this "fact"? Your above statement is rather preposterous.

IS/IT/data types are responsible for 90% of the doom and gloom?

90%?

lets assume for the moment that your "fact" is correct.

If 90% of the "doom and gloom" is from mainframe programmers, then this sure sounds like a serious problem to me.

If mainframes run a significant portion of the world's big business and govt records and the people who know how these mainframes work are telling us that there is a SERIOUS problem and it will not be fixed in time, I would have to say this is a potentially serious threat to world-wide commerce.

Correct me if I am wrong, but You appear to know what you are talking about in the IT realm that you are in, however, you do not have much, if any, experience with mainframes.

As far as the debate goes:

The arguements from "alledged" mainframer insiders with intimate knowledge of the systems far outweighs any arguements from anyone "outside" the system. (i.e. You) At the Moment.

You read and post to this forum and others for a reason.

Why?

Do you wish to educate, enlighten or otherwise help people who are trying to decide whether this is problem that will affect their lives?

If so, then you should come up with some better arguements or responses. I would welcome some rational information from you that is actually helpful.

(recently, and again correct me if I got this wrong, you replied to someones question about Ed Yardeni with a link to a portion on one of your web pages that talks about Financial advisors as Hucksters. The information on your page was useful, however, it did not address the question that was posted. You appeared to be trying to lump Ed Yardeni, Chief Economist for Deutsche Bank Securities, with fly-by- nite Financial Advisors and Charlatens.)

Or are you just here to make fun of people and add to the polarization of GI vs DGI, Polly vs Doomer, BITR vs TEOTWAWKI....?

-- PLONK! (realaddress@hotmail.com), May 14, 1999.

IS/IT/data types are responsible for 90% of the doom and gloom?

90%?

lets assume for the moment that your "fact" is correct.

If 90% of the "doom and gloom" is from mainframe programmers, then this sure sounds like a serious problem to me.

___________________

You sure got that wrong PLONK.

He said 90% of the doom and gloom, not 90% of the programmers. A good 90% of that 90% probably comes from one mainframe programmer--Cory Hamasaki. If he spent as much time working on his system as he does writing his BS then he might not be so gloomy either.

-- GI Polly (no@can.do), May 14, 1999.

Outings, I suggest you take a closer look at the meme theory. It is my understanding that most professionals in the mental fields accept it as fact now. Viral analogies to the spread of infectious ideas only go so far - but are a good mechanism to help provide a mathemetical basis for study of how such ideas catch on and spread.

In the old days, we called em fads.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), May 14, 1999.

Sayn't Paul, are rats memes too?

http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006&MyNum=9 26701736&P=Yes&TL=926631560

If so.....What about the Y2k RATS??? - Friday, 14-May-1999 13:08:56

151.164.58.35 writes:

Do you think all of the people storing beans, pasta, etc in their basements will have a rodent problem come post Y2K? I wonder if we will see an upsurge of mice and rats in suburban areas.

Worried in the Burbs.

Dear Worried,

I think you should sound the alarm in your Sub-Div. Make them send all the stored stuff back if they have not eaten it in 2 weeks.

http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006&MyNum=9 26703210&P=Yes&TL=926631560

Friday, 14-May-1999 13:33:30

155.76.111.181 writes:

I had thought about that one some time back. As an old farm boy, I can absolutely say that if one rat finds a stash of food (and they will gnaw right through lard cans and such to get it) he will bring all his relatives the next day.

There will be rats. It is going to be a problem. And there is nothing to do about it - there is no law against storing as much food for human consumption as you wish. I can't even think of anywhere that regulates how it is stored if it is for your own use.

Paul Davis

First Sayn't wants to save everyone from our memes. Now he wants to save everyone from our rats! We must pass laws limiting the amount of food a family can have on hand! Yes -- let's have another law! Perhaps we should register food-owners, set up food-detectors in public buildings, outlaw automatic food -- a ten-day wait on purchases -- oh, the possibilities! A chicken in every pot, yes, but NOT IN EVERY MASON JAR! Where's the ACLU when ya need 'em???

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), May 14, 1999.

Paul can I quote you on that? Y2K is a fad?

You are too idiotic for words.

-- a (a@a.a), May 14, 1999.

GI POLLY----

"You sure got that wrong PLONK.

He said 90% of the doom and gloom, not 90% of the programmers. ..."

(snip) -- GI Polly (no@can.do), May 14, 1999.

Who said "90% of the programmers..?"

Not me, try reading my post again, then please point out where I misquoted Poole or twisted his words.

I can't find your "interpretation" anywhere.

-- PLONK! (realaddress@hotmail.com), May 14, 1999.

"There will be rats. It is going to be a problem. And there is nothing to do about it - there is no law against storing as much food for human consumption as you wish. I can't even think of anywhere that regulates how it is stored if it is for your own use."

This is so breath-takingly, paternalistically and patronizingly stupid that it is hard to know how to respond. AS IF we need a law regulating how much food a family can store for itself or to regulate "how" it is stored.

I must say that I have often spoken positively of Paul on this forum. After this, I'm wondering why .......

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), May 14, 1999.

I have always identified the pollys with what they are - ignorant rubes. With the exception of Flint, who posseses at least some modicum of common sense, they are effectively brain dead on the y2k issue.

"If need be, we can run the trains on peanut oil." - Paul Davis

-- a (a@a.a), May 14, 1999.