You think contrail spraying is a hoax? Then read this... : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Residents from Texas, Nevada, Washinton state, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, New York, Arizona, California, Kentucky, New Jersey, Michigan, Florida and ENGLAND- you especially should read this, as there is reference to spraying in your state/country.

-- OR (, May 13, 1999


OK - since this is so common I guess you need to show me a picture of a jet with sprayers attached. After all, the fuel in a jet engine burns hot enough to melt many metals. No organic can survive that kind of temperature - they have even used it to destroy dioxin and related compounds. So anything added to a contrail has to be added after the fuel has burned.

Need I say that I regard this as another Internet hoax? Somewhere between a Nobrainer and a One Brain Cell.

-- Paul Davis (, May 13, 1999.

OR OR not:

As a molecular biologist who works with most of the organisms mentioned, I could tell you what I think of the article. But, then, it wouldn't do much good.


-- Z1X4Y7 (, May 13, 1999.

Too many people have seen these white planes with safety-orange tails (much like the NSA fleet) and safety-orange engine markings (signifying a "test" engine - perhaps one with integral sprayers) descending in numbers upon an urban area, lacing the sky with a GRID of contrails, which do not dissipate but expand into full cloud cover in a matter of hours. Then people get sick, typically with upper resperatory distress. This has happened in the above mentioned cities. It is happening over and over again. Denial and disinformation abound, but the facts on the ground are indisputable at this point. Explain them, if you can. But don't tell people it's not happening, because you are a clever fellow and have a bunch of letters after your name. That kind of arrogance discredits a rational approach to what is now a very obvious problem.


-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), May 13, 1999.

Paul, it's obvious you didn't read the article.

"According to recent admissions by the British Defense Ministry, a Canberra jet bomber was modified with spray tanks to "act as a spray aircraft for research into defence against biological warfare."

And Z1X4Y7, please...enlighten us as to the biological aspect of the findings. Of course, your input will not nullify the detrimental effects of the non-biological chemicals that are purported to be included in some of this spraying.

I'm not just reading a silly document off the internet. I have a close relative who was in the town of Oakville working reserve duty law enforcement when it was sprayed last summer with some odd jelly- like substance found all over the town, including is squad car. When he went to the higher-ups about his concerns, he was told to back off.

"The most publicized incident occurred in August, 1994, when gelatinous globs began raining on Oakville, Washington about 80 miles southeast of Seattle. After local residents became sick with vertigo, lethargy and severe shortness of breath, a lab technician found human white blood cells in the sky goo. At the Washington State Department of Health, registered microbiologist Mike McDowell also discovered the sample swarming with Pseudomona flourescens and Enterobacter cloacae."

-- OR (, May 13, 1999.

I live in California and travel around the country quite often. In my many years of looking at the sky I have yet to visually experience this contrail spraying nor has anybody that I've spoken to. I've seen too much in my life to casually discount this possibility but it appears to be a quantum leap from a technical standpoint. Now that my curosity is peaked I plan to do some research on the subject.

-- Barry Jaynes (, May 13, 1999.

OR, OR not:

I've never found these kinds of dicussions useful, but if you are interested we can start. First, give me your impression of the taxonomy of Pseudomona flourescens and the information on it's natrual distribution. We can discuss restriction endonucleases later.


-- Z1X4Y7 (, May 13, 1999.

OR, OR not:

On a more serious note, much of one of my projects deals with the potential of such organisms in animal health. I was unable to find any published information from the person you quote. {At the Washington State Department of Health, registered microbiologist Mike McDowell also discovered the sample swarming with Pseudomona flourescens and Enterobacter cloacae."}. Do you have an e-mail address, so I can contact him for confirmation of the health risks that you suggest? Even an address would do. I spend a lot of time the in Puget Sound area.


-- Z1X4Y7 (, May 13, 1999.

Bizarre Cult Predicts End of World Press Release 1/4/97 For immediate publication Bizarre Cult Predicts End of World

A Dallas based group calling itself The Church of The SubGenius claims that the end of the world may come sooner then you think. Founded in 1980 by millionaire business man J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, the Church has attracted over 10,000 members across the world. The fanatic followers of this self proclaimed anti-religion are busy preparing for the rapidly approaching apocalypse they call X day. "This is the day we have been preparing for all our lives," explains cult leader Rev. Ivan Stang, "the glorious day when the X-ists shall rupture us up on the space vessels of the sex-goddess." The X-ists, it turns out, are a race of space aliens who are on their way at this very moment to completely obliterate the earth. However, the tycoon Dobbs has promised that all his followers will be saved from mass devastation by being taken aboard pleasure saucers where every hidden desire is revealed and fulfilled.

If all of this sounds to you like the ramblings of a few insane crack pots, you haven't been paying close enough attention. Beginning with only some poorly printed pamphlets and a few dozen believers, the Church of the SubGenius now has 5 major publications translated into 4 languages, a radio show in over 16 cities, a 900 line, a toll free mail order line, a nationally distributed video, tours, CD's, rock bands, and most recently a state of the art Web Site. "The doctrine and ideas of the world's only true religion are much too large and complex for a few books, videos or the human mind," explains the fire and brimstone preacher Stang, "so we had to move to cyberspace. It was the only place that could even begin to contain the word of "Bob"." And it seems that the SubGenius are determined to fill even that container.

Their website, one of the most visited sites on the web, is overflowing with sounds, images, stories, tour dates, on line marriages, and of course an extensive product catalog. With an unpaid staff of hundreds, this web site defines the cutting edge of web technology while spreading the mind numbing message of the Church. So what is the date of doomsday? According to "Bob", this will be our last full year on earth, for the little blue planet we call home is due for demolition on July 5th, 1998 ... 7am. For years this day has been celebrated by a secret three day festival in New York appropriately called the X-Day Drill. The festival attracts hundreds of the faithful and grows exponentially each year. Don't worry though, there's still hope; business manager Rev. Bevilacqua explains, "There's only one thing you need to do to become a member of the Church and be saved from a horrible and inconvenient death in 1998, and that's send $30 to "Bob"."

Yes, there you have it, the Church offers "Guaranteed Salvation or Triple Your Money Back". For thirty dollars your seat on the pleasure saucers is secured, you're ordained as a Reverend in the Church, you find out where the Drill is, and you get a nifty packet of certificates and a wallet card. Rev. Bevilacqua reminds us, "You don't have to actually believe what we're saying is the truth, even though it most certainly is. Any intelligent person will recognize that the possibility exists that we are absolutely right about the end of the world, and isn't a measly $30 worth your and you children's lives? You can look at it as the cheapest insurance policy you'll ever buy!" Maybe he has a point there. Now where did I put my wallet?

Rev. J.C. "Steve" Bevilacqua

Business Manager, Sleazy Promoter

The SubGenius Foundation, Inc.

Send $1.00 for more information on this fast growing cult! PO Box 140306 Dallas, TX 75214

Fax: (214)324-0993 Credit card orders 1(888)669-2323

-- "BOB" ("bob", May 13, 1999.

Hmm...They say they found organisms that eat jet fuel, spewing out of jet aircraft...suppose those organisms got loose into the fuel supply, accidentally? The gooey stuff might be the byproduct of matabolism...just a wild idea from a science fiction fan who doesn't know anything ;)

-- Shimrod (, May 13, 1999.

I mean metabolism.

-- Shimrod (, May 13, 1999.

I live in Michigan and I have seen these contrails turn our beautiful, brilliant blues skies into cloudy skies in a matter of hours. The contrail itself is very bright white and appears thicker than a regular jet contrail. I have seen parallel line formed and then they all merge together to form a cloud cover. I have also seen X's and grid patterns. I have no idea what it is and who is doing it, but I have not become sick. I have been watching these things since early February.

-- Lori (, May 13, 1999.

Crazier things have happened. At least its not raining frogs this time.

-- a (a@a.a), May 13, 1999.

I have been on the look out for these 'chemtrails' since last fall. I've had three incredible sightings of grid patterns that filled the sky, with the trails slowly enlarging over the course of several hours. No dissipation was detectable from the ground. I've witnessed many more instances of criss-crossing chemtrails, but not as spectacular as the ones I noted above.

I haven't become ill, although I do know five people in two states who did come down with pretty severe upper respiratory infections immediately following these sitings.

What to make of it? Just don't know. Art Bell has done 3 or 4 fascinating shows with William Thomas, a reporter investigating chemtrails. Send me an e-mail if ya want info on how to find the interviews on the 'net.

This is really OT, but I had to add my two cents anyway!

-- Bingo1 (, May 13, 1999.

Ummmmmm! Bob is that 7am eastern or Pacific time that the world is going to end on Judy 5th. I have a dental app't at 7am and would cancel if I knew for sure. LOL


-- Taz (Tassie, May 13, 1999.


Always look for a reason to cancel a dental appoinment. I've used worse than this.


-- Z1X4Y7 (, May 13, 1999.

The white planes with orange tails I have seen are usually flying low near the airport and are doing tests on the approach radio beacons and Automated Landing Systems used for instrument approaches. I haven't seen any spraying with it.

-- smfdoc (, May 13, 1999.

I live about 1 hr. east of Dallas-Ft. Worth airport in the path of many com'l. jets that head towards the eastern U.S. I'm usually in my yard working or playing with the kids during various times of the year and very rarely see contrails from this air traffic. However, on numerous occasions I've witnessed jet contrails in a grid-like pattern spread over our area and have watched the very slow dispersion of some type of material throughout a very wide section of the countryside. This spraying was way too high for crops and seemed like an obviously planned sectional spraying pattern. Also, we had a very mild winter with very little child illness in the community until after one of these spraying episodes in Feb. A few days later half my liitle league team was sick with flu-like symptoms after being exposed.

-- saveamerica (, May 13, 1999.

My gun toting neighbor across the street and I were noticing this the other day. Strange grid pattern very high up. I really believe this may cause rain down wind and I think there are forces in our govt. who are capable of tests of this kind.

-- Johnny (, May 13, 1999.

Don't you guys know anything about aircraft? What't the mystery about contrails? Given the right atmospheric conditions, any aircraft can leave contrails that can persist for hours.

White with red-orange markings mean "Student Driver" and it's a good idea to stay well clear. Almost always a training flight. I know, I was one of them once upon a time. We would often fly over the same area repeatedly (sigh) until I got it right, dang it!

Occasionally, if we had an in-flight problem, we would have to dump fuel to lower the aircraft to safe landing weight, and it could look like we were cropdusting. You know the BLUE ANGELS? When they go "smoke on", the white smoke is actually vaporized jet fuel.

As for that mystery gunk found on the ground? Can't say, I guess you got me on that one. By any chance, were these incidents near migratory routes of very large birds? Now THAT would make me sick.

Now, can we get back to the business at hand: Y2K preparation?


-- Spindoctor (, May 13, 1999.

I don't particularly believe that the is roach spraying us, but if Paul thinks the spray has to come through the engines it only shows what an idiot he is.

-- Nikoli Krushev (, May 13, 1999.

I'd read a few articles about the contrails, and to tell the truth, I more or less dismissed them as some peoples over-active imaginations.

Then on the March 20th weekend this year I was in Charlotte, NC and saw these things being made with my own eyes.

I have NO idea what its all about, but I have never seen anything quite as strange. My hubby, who was an air traffic controller and then a pilot, agreed that they were NOT normal contrails.

We stopped at the side of the road and watched as they were being made. They criss-crossed the entire clear blue sky. One strange thing about them was the way they started and stopped......we would see a plane flying along without a trail, then suddenly it would have one, and just as suddenly would end.

As we watched, the contrails seemed to grow. They got bigger and "fluffier". One in particular caught our attention as it began to "fall". Very hard to was almost like icicles forming on the edge of a roof. I have a photo of this if anyone wants to see.

I don't have a clue what its all about, but I KNOW these are not simply normal contrails.

-- Sheila (, May 13, 1999.


That is a very accurate description of the fuel dumping proceedure. The vaporized jet fuel is heavier than the surrounding air, and would drift downward over time.


-- Spindoctor (, May 13, 1999.

What speaks to me is the experiences of people on the ground. From what I've read about these contrail gridding events, many people have turned up sick in the area afterwards who wern't aware that there had been any contrails. And the symptoms presented are all over the map.

Aircraft have been dumping fuel when they had to for many years -- but these reports of sickness on the ground have only turned up recently.

One thing that could be done is to correlate the reported contrail gridding events with commercial airlanes -- if these still are maintained?

-- Tom Carey (, May 14, 1999.

Mr. Cary,

"...And the symptoms presented are all over the map..." It seems more likely to me that it is the result of a gradually improved system of public health care reporting that accounts for the increased documentation of illnesseses, rather than any actual increase in illness. "... all over the map..." could easily describe the normal incidence/distribution of colds and flu virus, transmitted by people; you don't need aircraft aerosols for distribution for this to spread rapidly. Just look at any school system...

I for one would prefer to look for the simplest explanation, rather than inventing more and more complex scenarios to explain relatively normal events.

Again, lets get back to the topic as hand, shall we: preparing for Y2K.

-- Spindoctor (, May 14, 1999.

My apologies, Mr. Carey, I misspelled your name. Sorry.

-- Spindoctor (, May 14, 1999.

Spindoctor: "I for one would prefer to look for the simplest explanation, rather than inventing more and more complex scenarios to explain relatively normal events."

As would anyone. Occam's razor can be helpful. But to first deny that a pattern of events is abnormal, and then to adopt the "simplest" and dismissive explanation for them, seems something other than objective.

I'd say the eyewitness reports are substantial enough to warrant looking into this business. (I don't think that's likely to be done officially, of course.)

There were centuries in our history during which anyone who proposed that stones might occasionally fall flaming from the sky was ridiculed, criticized, even excommunicated. Once the ecclesiastical explanations were honestly challenged, and the evidence was actually examined, we found out about meteors and meteorites.

-- Tom Carey (, May 14, 1999.

I have seen these chemtrails for a couple of years now,turning the blue sky hazy as they spread. I get so tired of the "I don't think" and "I don't believe" answers. I and others have seen these trails. I don't want to debate their existance. I want to know why we are being sprayed and a decent report of what we are being sprayed with. PERIOD The what we are being sprayed with, has been confirmed by independent labs. I DON'T BELIEVE no longer cuts it. Give me alternate proof. Who is spraying us is obvious. I have personally watched these tankers take off land and reload at the airbase nearby. Go to this site, among others, and see for yourself. Remember that this particular site has only been in existance since March 7th of this year.

-- Paladin (HaveGun@Will.Travel), May 14, 1999.

Cris-crossing "contrails" over Los Angeles!!

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (, May 14, 1999.

If you really believe this stuff and you have proof, then get off the freakin' Internet with it and go get a lawyer and file a class-action lawsuit or cease-and-desist order. Or go talk to the media. Or go talk to your congressman.

Otherwise, shut the hell up.

-- you're an idiot (!@#$%@*&^%$#!.!@#$%^&*), May 14, 1999.


Look into it. My guess is it's an innoculation, not a sinister population control effort. Percentage of those getting sick seems about right for that. Shielding from an anticipated attack from without, or...

Not a fuel additive - that's a cover story. Sprayers in somewhat oversized (?) engine housings. Like an airbrush, though probably not directed right into the wash.

But something is definitely up.


-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), May 14, 1999.

Read more at:

-- Jerre (, May 14, 1999.

Hhhmmm, looks like TSHTF and dropped from the sky in Utah: 15/us/salt_lake_sewage_1.html

Sewage Splatters Salt Lake Valley

[ For Educational Purposes Only ]

Saturday May 15 2:17 AM ET

Sewage Splatters Salt Lake Valley

By PAUL FOY Associated Press Writer

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Maybe it's a bird, maybe it's a plane. But it is certainly sewage.

And it's no joke in the Salt Lake Valley, where gobs of thick, raw sewage have fallen from the sky a dozen times since April 9, soiling as many as seven houses at once.

Neighbors are pointing fingers at aircraft, but the Federal Aviation Administration says commercial jets aren't designed to jettison sewage. A biplane was spotted before one attack, but federal agents said the tip didn't pan out.

Sheriff's deputies are studying ``splatter patterns'' and firefighters are hosing down houses. Prosecutors have assigned an investigator to the case and authorities are issuing stern warnings.

``It has never been funny,'' said Mayor Janice Auger of hard-hit suburban Taylorsville. ``The experience is really gross. The smell is terrible. This is a health issue. There's a lot of diseases in fecal matter.''

``It is feces, but they can't tell if it's animal or human,'' sheriff's Capt. Lee Smith said of the first lab tests on the foul emissions.

The initial strikes have spawned crude, ground-launched copycats, and edgy residents are reporting even minor bird droppings on their cars. Tom Perkins says it would take a ``600-pound pigeon with diarrhea'' to produce the coverage that prompted his son to ask, ``Dad, what's all the mud doing on the house?''

It took 500 gallons of water and 30 gallons of bleach to clean the home that is 2,000 feet below a flight path where jets glide at 200 mph toward Salt Lake City International Airport.

The FAA has all but ruled out jets as a culprit, saying their toilet tanks can be flushed only from an exterior valve.

Any leak would contain a telltale bluish disinfectant, the FAA and aircraft manufacturers say, and none of the splatterings had a trace of blue.

The FAA, no stranger to reports of weird phenomena, doesn't know what to make of the mess. ``We never heard anything like this,'' agency spokesman Mitch Barker said, ``nothing like what's been going on in Salt Lake.''

FAA is clueless again ...
UFO alien droppings? Drug-smuggling plane droppings? Peridactyl droppings? Unauthorized commercial plane droppings? Contrail plane droppings? Etc. Look for the movie soon ;^)

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

-- Leska (, May 15, 1999.

According to many analysts on this forum, this AP report on Salt Lake City must be a hoax, along with all the rest.

I say hats off to the hoaxters! Such refreshing insouciance! Such realism! Such candor! Such dedication!

(On second thought, leave the hats on.)

Charles Fort would have enjoyed this one.

-- Tom Carey (, May 18, 1999.

This often comes up. Are the contrails real? Yep.

Are they in deliberate grid patterns? Yep.

Is the government deliberately spraying the population? Unlikely.

Is the government doing a test of chemical/biological weapons dispersals--just not real bio/chem weapons? Perhaps.

Are they commercial planes, simply in holding patterns, waiting to land a major airports? Possibly.

Is the government simply flying at altitudes and in conditions condusive to contrails? Likely.

Why? Because (1) they could be training for search and rescue operations (2) they could be training for reconnaisance missions (3) they could be on REAL reconnaisance missions--ie., looking for weed with IR cameras or calibrating instruments to be used in reconnaisance.

Seems to me that the inoculation theory does not make sense. It is not practical. Bugs are really labile to temperature flux, you know. If you wanted to secretly inoculate everyone, there are far more convenient, houseflies, mosquitos, water supply, the air vents in shopping malls, etc.

-- coprolith (, May 18, 1999.

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