ImageK Availability

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I'm very interested in the ImageK "digital 35mm film" to use with an Olympus OM-4. However, the news clippings on their web site (www.imagek.com) indicate the product would be ready for Christmas 1998. When I checked the site about a month ago they said their product would be ready May 1999. Now their site says Summer 1999. I sent them an e-mail to ask when their product will be ready and have gotten no response. What's the scoop? Anybody know?

Do any manufacturers have plans to market a digital camera with interchangeable lenses that doesn't cost $5,000?

-- Rob Smith (RRSmith@MAPLLC.com), May 11, 1999

Answers

This elusive product never seems to happen. The sensor that they are trying to use is old technology(1 megapixel). They are also thinking that they can get $1000 for it when the new 2 megapixel cameras are selling for $800-$900. It was a good idea, but I don't think that this company has the expertise to make it. They seem to be mostly about trying to get funding rather than make a product.

cricket

-- cricket (cricketb@nospam.earthlink.net), May 13, 1999.


Just another opinion:

I was initially down on this thinking it was totally blue sky, but my opinion is changing. I saw their site last fall, and they've made a fair bit of progress. One of the things you have to remember about this idea is that they have an ENORMOUS potential market out there. There are a LOT of people heavily invested in accessories for 35MM cameras that they don't want to give up if they buy a digicam. Their site mentions 20 million 35mm cameras sold since 198?.

They're also in a very good position in terms of technology if they can get equal or superior results from a cmos sensor. CMOS requires much less power to operate and they can probably build all the circuitry, including the sensor, for the camera on one die or perhaps with several dies bonded to one substrate. What this means is that if they can produce a decent quality product and get production in volume the units will be EXTREMELY cheap to mass produce, something that can't be said about conventional digicams. They could probably eventually sell these things for well under $300 in quantity, probably with a much higher resolution as they step things up and still make buckets of money once the R&D is paid back. Something the conventional digicam manufacturers claim they aren't really doing at current pricing levels.

They've jumped from, I believe, 800x600 or 800x1000 up to 1280x1024. Pretty good really. They currently are projecting a price of $800 or less, not bad when you consider the thousands other companies want for a digital back to use on those same 35mm cameras.

Obviously, if you just want to get 1280x1024 res. you can go out and get a Toshiba PDR-M1 for around $300 and be very happy(I have one.) But, if I had a few thousand tied up in a camera and accessories I really liked I'd probably be greedy for an $800 digital solution that let me use all my gadgets on a familiar camera. I like the Toshiba, but wish I could find accessories for it.

-- Gerald M. Payne (gmp@francorp.francomm.com), May 14, 1999.


Just another opinion:

I was initially down on this thinking it was totally blue sky, but my opinion is changing. I saw their site last fall, and they've made a fair bit of progress. One of the things you have to remember about this idea is that they have an ENORMOUS potential market out there. There are a LOT of people heavily invested in accessories for 35MM cameras that they don't want to give up if they buy a digicam. Their site mentions that 20 million 35mm cameras were sold since 198?.

They're also in a very good position in terms of technology if they can get equal or superior results from a cmos sensor. CMOS requires much less power to operate and they can probably build all the circuitry, including the sensor, for the camera on one die or perhaps with several dies bonded to one substrate. What this means is that if they can produce a decent quality product and get production in volume the units will be EXTREMELY cheap to mass produce, something that can't be said about conventional digicams. They could probably eventually sell these things for well under $300 in quantity, probably with a much higher resolution as they step things up and still make buckets of money once the R&D is paid back. Something the conventional digicam manufacturers claim they aren't really doing at current pricing levels.

They've jumped from, I believe, 800x600 or 800x1000 up to 1280x1024. Pretty good really. They currently are projecting a price of $800 or less, not bad when you consider the thousands other companies want for a digital back to use on those same 35mm cameras.

Obviously, if you just want to get 1280x1024 res. you can go out and get a Toshiba PDR-M1 for around $300 and be very happy(I have one.) But, if I had a few thousand tied up in a camera and accessories I really liked I'd probably be greedy for an $800 digital solution that let me use all my gadgets on a familiar camera. I like the Toshiba, but wish I could find accessories for it.

-- Gerald M. Payne (gmp@francorp.francomm.com), May 14, 1999.


Indeed, it is a good product that just keeps getting better. They've upgraded the number of pixels, and doubtless added new bells and whisles. Only one slight drawback... it's still vapourware. Improving vapourware isn't too difficult.

They've never said how large the sensor is. If it's much less than 24x36, it will be a slight problem (your viewfinder won't be accurate). But of course, it will depend on what CMOS chips are available when the thing actually come out. Or, being really cynical, if it ever comes out...

-- Alan Gibson (Alan.Gibson@technologist.com), May 14, 1999.


Thank you all for your input. What do you make of the latest announcement that Kodak & Intel are working together on a similar product? Any inkling of when they might have an honest-to-goodness product ready to sell?

Thx again!

-- Rob Smith (RRSmith@MAPLLC.com), May 14, 1999.



Certainly two big power houses like Kodak and Intel, lend credability to a product development. I believe IMAGEK (of Irving Sensors) will definately be the first to market. As some of the other contributors have pointed out, they have increased their spec'd resolution and decreased their selling price from their original press releases. I believe they also have the edge on technology for this particular application (CMOS imaging)and will be able to offer a competitive product (not superior) for an affordable price. As they sell more units, their price will come down and their product will offer better resolution, through increased cycles of learning. I am personally looking forward to purchasing one of their IMAGEK cartridges for my 35mm SLR, when they become available this summer. I was in contact with them (IMAGEK) just two days ago, and they are still holding firm to the sub $800 price point and summer availability.

-- John Westbrook (j3westbrook@earthlink.net), May 14, 1999.

While this doesn't make the Imagek product any less vaporific than it has been to date, there's obviously a move towards CMOS image sensors. Toshiba has a 1.3Mpixel 12mm x 12mm sq. CMOS unit.

See: http://www.toshiba.co.jp/techno21/cmos01.htm

The big advantages of CMOS are:

1. The need for only a single voltage power supply leading to up to 10x's longer battery life, since the camera doesn't have to waste energy generating 3 separate voltages for a CCD sensor. Generating any amount of current through dc-dc conversion is generally a lossy process that also generates a fair amount of waste heat that needs to be bled off.

2. The ability to form the sensors on the same chip or substrate as the required camera circuitry.

This will allow for very small, very low power cameras. How would you like a large zoom range digicam the size of a pack of cancer sticks or a large pack of chewing gum? ;-) I think it might be possible within a relatively short period of time and it wouldn't surprise me if there's a manufacturer somewhere with an experimental model on the drawing board. I say this based only on the miniaturization offered by combining CMOS sensor and support electronics, the meager size of an actual smartmedia wafer and the tiny volume my PDR-M1 currently claims for actual circuity and mechanical parts while still using a CCD. I'm not sure if lens size will be a constraint due to lower light gathering with a smaller diameter lens, but perhaps digital zoom would suffice with a sensor sporting a large number of pixels.

I wouldn't want one too tiny to use, but one small enough to carry on an everyday basis like a pen or a jack-knife might be pretty handy for those rare moments.

-- Gerald M. Payne (gmp@francorp.francomm.com), May 15, 1999.


While this is way off topic, some of you may get a kick out of this link:

http://www.lira.dist.unige.it/svavisca.html

It takes you to a site detailing the effort to develop a CMOS camera that more closely mimics the design of the human eye, possibly leading to advances in machine vision. The main feature of this design is that it uses far fewer pixels than a conventional matrix and considerably lowers the processing power required for machine vision or possibly future "bionic" visual replacements. The image quality is presently laughable compared to the output of a digicam, but it's a very intriguing concept. Manufacturing sensors that more closely mimic the operation of the human eye may eventually lead to advances in digicams that produce images more like the ones the human eyes see.

-- Gerald M. Payne (gmp@francorp.francomm.com), May 15, 1999.


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