Differences b/t The Methodist & Catholic Church?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
Greetings,I would like to know the differences between the Catholic Church and the "Reformed" branches...specifically the United Methodist Church. Any ideas? Thanks
-- Kathleen Maier (RUBBDM@aol.com), May 11, 1999
Kathleen,You might also want to find a United Methodist forum and pose the same question so you can see both perspectives. If I recall correctly, Methodism is in the Protestant stream and was born out of the preachings and ministries of John Wesley in the 1700's (I think???). It's been a while since I read about them, so I apologize if I missed the mark. I believe their early focus was on dynamic worship and personal holiness. They have undergone a number of splits and I believe today's United Methodist branch is considered a fairly liberal lot. Again, if I'm not mistaken, I think some segments of United Methodists support same-sex marriages and the ordination of homosexuals. Anyone . . . please correct me if you have better info.
-- David (David@matt6:33.com), May 11, 1999.
methodism was founded by john wesley (1703-1791). in general their tenets are in general those of the major protestant churches, especially those of anglicanism, from which wesley separeted. he imposed himself a very strict life regime and discipline.from methodism many branches have sprung: the primitive methodist, the biblical christians, the methodist pro- testants, the armenian methodists. In america there are at least twenty methodist denominations, the most importat beeing the metho- dist episcopal church.
From what i have said you can infer many of the differences between catholics and methodists.
-- ENRIQUE ORTIZ (eaortiz@yahoo.com), May 12, 1999.
Sadly the centuries of fallout from the REformation are stil with us. Ecumenical is the keyword I feel now as we attemtp to heal fromthe self-inflicted wouds of the past.Peace And Well Being.
Jean Bouchard
-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 13, 1999.
Some major differences I have noted --from The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church:"Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion. But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother, for whom devastating damage may result from an unacceptable pregnancy. In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection."
"Although divorce publicly declares that a marriage no longer exists, other covenantal relationships resulting from the marriage remain, such as the nurture and support of children and extended family ties. We urge respectful negotiations in deciding the custody of minor children and support the consideration of either or both parents for this responsibility in that custody not be reduced to financial support, control, or manipulation and retaliation. The welfare of each child is the most important consideration."
"Although all persons are sexual beings whether or not they are married, sexual relations are only clearly affirmed in the marriage bond. Sex may become exploitative within as well as outside marriage. We reject all sexual expressions that damage or destroy the humanity God has given us as birthright, and we affirm only that sexual expression that enhances that same humanity. We believe that sexual relations where one or both partners are exploitative, abusive, or promiscuous are beyond the parameters of acceptable Christian behavior and are ultimately destructive to individuals, families, and the social order."
"We especially reject the idea that God made individuals as incomplete fragments, made whole only in union with another. We call upon women and men alike to share power and control, to learn to give freely and to receive freely, to be complete and to respect the wholeness of others. We seek for every individual opportunities and freedom to love and be loved, to seek and receive justice, and to practice ethical self-determination."
"We applaud medical science for efforts to prevent disease and illness and for advances in treatment that extend the meaningful life of human beings. At the same time, care for the dying is part of our stewardship of the divine gift of life. The use of medical technologies to prolong terminal illnesses requires responsible judgment about when life-sustaining treatments truly support the goals of life, and when they have reached their limits. There is no moral or religious obligation to use these when they impose undue burdens or only extend the process of dying. Dying persons and their families thus have the liberty to discontinue treatments when they cease to be of benefit to the patient."
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 05, 2004.
Daniel, I think your headings are way too harsh a judgment on the content of the material you link to. I agree this church misses the mark re abortion and divorce. But this material certainly doesn’t say they are pro-euthanasia, pro-homosexual activity or pro-women’s ordination. In fact their statements on “Human Sexuality”, “Women and Men” and “Faithful Care of the Dying” seem perfectly consistent with orthodox Catholic teaching. They specifically condemn homosexual activity.Possibly, although they don’t mention it in the pages you link, they may, like some other protestant churches, have women MINISTERS, just as we do in the Catholic Church. But their ministers are not truly “ordained” nor are they “priests” and “bishops” even if their church mistakenly uses these terms.
-- Steve (55555@aol.com), December 05, 2004.
'They' are far from 'perfectly consistent with orthodox Catholic teaching'. Truth is not so nuanced...
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 06, 2004.
I do not know much about the Methodist teaching, but they DO ordain female ministers. The minister of the Methodist church in our town and the neighboring town to the east of us both have female ministers. Other than that I do not know much about the Methodists....Now I can talk all day long about Baptists and Church of Christ......:) Have a good day ya'll !Thanks and glory be to God!
-- Suzanne (james-betsy@sbcglobal.net), December 06, 2004.
Daniel, WHAT exactly in the 3 pages I referred to, do you think is inconsistent with Catholic teaching? Sure, they don’t proclaim the truth as loudly and clearly as the Catholic Church does; I’ve already mentioned 2 pages where they are quite wrong, and I’m sure there would be many others if you searched their whole site; but the three pages you wrongly described as “Pro-Women’s Ordination”, “Pro- Homosexual activity” and “Pro-Euthanasia” don’t actually say anything WRONG.
-- Steve (55555@aol.com), December 06, 2004.
...extend the meaningful life of human beings.
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 07, 2004.
Although we do not condone the practice of homosexuality and consider this practice incompatible with Christian teaching, we affirm that God’s grace is available to all.Is God's grace available to an unrepentant -say, an unrepentant practicing homosexual?
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 07, 2004.
We call upon women and men alike to share power and control
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 07, 2004.
I would assume that this thread and others similar posted were posted originally in the spirit of Ecumenism.
Ecumenism is easy to talk about conceptually and the concept is for the common good; however, inherent in the faithful ends of Ecumenism is the building up of the Church and the conversion of others to the full Truth.
Faithful practice, to be pursued requires practice faithful to the desired end. In ministering to the errant, not only are similarities to be identified -Charity requires the differences to be identified from which fraternal correction derives and is obligated. [This] obligation requires succint measure not couched in vague dilution of Truth.
Given Vatican II endorses the laity to be ministers of the Faith and to witness Truth to others. How would the laity faithfully practice Ecumenism with regard to others when we do not specifically know or have guidance as to the differences?
Would laity not be taking chances with their state by placing themselves in such position when put in such close proximity to errant teaching or influences? As to the practicality of Ecumenism - need it be secretive and or demure and or only at practiced at 'high' level by such as USCCB committee? -the USCCB pursues Ecumenism, yet , does not publish the 'differences' -is Truth offensive?
Further, as to Ecumenism -the building up of the Church and the conversion of others to the full Truth is not accomplished meekly or by compromise. Nor in my opinion, is it done by proxy -[it] is done one soul at a time... Would some suggest it conceivable that the 'leaders' of the many pagan religions other than the true one revealed by God will 'change' and each will bring their followers enmasse with them?
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 07, 2004.
Some of his interlocutors have shown a fine ability to regurgitate verbatim the dry texts of the law. All very well as far as it goes. But the Scribes and Pharisees had the same ability.Steve, I note your aversion to the verbatim and favor of the vague.
Remember, the Scribes and Pharisees were but corrupting the old law.
Such morally relative argument would imply you suggest the old law no longer relevent -what of Grace? Do you further dismiss the new law by disparaging it as dry and verbatim obedient advocates as 'Scribes and Pharisees'?
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 07, 2004.
Daniel, give Steve a break. Or rather, give us all some better quotes because he has a point. A quick read of those paragraphs doesn't reveal their "therefore"s as clearly as you seem to understand them.Rather than trying to go into full exegesis mode, just give us some more clearly stated moral positions.
Thank you.
I'm not saying you are wrong. I just am saying that your choice of quotes don't make it clear what the Methodists believe and think we all owe ourselves a better selection of their beliefs prior to casting judgment.
-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), December 07, 2004.
prior to casting judgment.Joe, Casting judgment -I don't think so...
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 07, 2004.
Sorry, judgement is an act of the mind when presented with information, not as in act of moral judgment.So if the question is "what does the Methodist Church believe" and the answer is a vague paragraph, it becomes difficult for us to truly judge (i.e. know) what the church really believes.
If you know more about them than what's in those paragraphs, please share.
-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), December 07, 2004.
Joe,I post when I can and research when I can -lol
I am but one -feel free to contribute information -I have not cornered the market and no one will stop you from seeking it out.
If you wish debate -it will have to wait until I have more time.
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), December 07, 2004.