(OT) Whats up with the bombing of the Chinese Embassy?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I know this is way off topic for this forum but I have come to respect many of the opinions expressed here. I just don't have anyone to discuss things with so I solicit y'alls comments.
I have just left www.stratfor.com I respect their analysis of world events very much. They explain that before there was a Chinese embassy at the bombing location, it was just an empty lot. NATO insists that the bombs/missles struck exactly where they were supposed to. That it was not an mis guided missle/bomb. I don't think NATO is into bombing empty lots.
NATO also declared that the missles/bombs were laser guided. That means that someone had to paint the target from the ground. If this is the case, then there is only one conclusion that I can come up with. If the embassy was not an intentional target, there was an agent provocoture who directed the bombing from the ground. KLA or Serbian?
No thinking person can believe the "old map" expanation especially since an old map would show an empty lot.
Bill in South Carolina
-- Bill Solorzano (email@example.com), May 10, 1999
This concerned/interested me too. My optimistic side wants to believe that some of the few pro-USA guys left in DOD and "intelligence" decided it was pay-back time for the Clinton/China crap that has been going on, but it is hard to be so optimistic these days. It really looks like an "innocent" screw-up.
-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), May 10, 1999.
I do not think that it was an "innocent" screw-up. I think that the target was hit that was aimed at. Could it be that they are wanting China/Russia in this mess? Could be possibly a warning to China about not taking any more of our nuclear "gifts" that they have taken in the past.... if you catch my drift.
-- (???@???.???), May 10, 1999.
Is that really correct that it had to be ground-supported if it was a laser guided bomb? I'm not questioning you Bill, I sort of just want confirmation because it's a fact of much consequence if it is true. I myself had heard of SAS and their U.S. equivalent doing this kind of spotting work in Kosovo. Contrary to this, I'd also heard somewhere that the embassy bomb would have been guided to the target by guys in the five-sided palace via satellite. ??? Tell me more! We do "see the world through a glass, darkly" when it comes to this kind of thing. (Sorry to make y'all sick... by quoting from Herr Slick.)
nAto is saying it was an innocent mistake, so my immediate reaction was to wonder that it probably wasn't an innocent mistake, but for all I know maybe it was. Right now they're a doubtworthy bunch, no doubt.
There's a bit of talk around the forum about China or Russia angling for war, but if you look at the globe there's one particular nation-state that is by far the biggest hassle for world peace. The one with the most provocative actions, the one with the least regard for international laws, treaties and conventions. And perhaps, the one which once had the greatest prospects. It's a shame really. Something appears to have gone drastically wrong.
And yeah we're off topic but I too have noone else to talk to about such things, and Kosovo situation is just plain important. A small spark can start a large fire, to paraphrase Yeltsin.
-- humpty (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 10, 1999.
"Just love those laser-guided bombs / They're really great for righting wrongs...
We zap and maim with the bravery of being out of range"
-- Waters (amused to email@example.com), May 10, 1999.
"We zap and maim with the bravery of being out of range"
Great point! I think Joe SixPack might choke on his pretzels if his 19 year-old boy, who only enlisted for the great benefits, had to hit the ground in Kosovo.
-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), May 10, 1999.
humpty makes a valid point. Laser guided bombs simply lock on to any target painted by a laser. The laser can be airborne. In fact, it is a common mode of operation for one fighter to illuminate the target and hold lock on it while a second aircraft drops the actual bomb. This cooperative targeting lets the lasing aircraft locate the target and the bomber only has to worry about making the bomb run. The Brits have shown a lot of this type of operation.
-- De (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 10, 1999.
I thought the bombs used were the GPS-guided, 3000 lb, "bunker buster" bombs dropped only by B-2s, no lasers required. This eliminates the "mistake on the ground" scenario. Which makes the hit on the embassy even more a question of what were they aiming at? With deep-pentration weapons that could take out nuclear-hardened facilities? Maybe it's because there was a target valuable enough underneath the embassy to risk death and destruction to people and structures above ground.
Keep in mind that Belgrade is a former Warsaw Pact capital city. Reports after the end of the Cold War revealed that there were miles of bunkers and tunnels underneath the Warsaw Pact capital cities that NATO and the CIA never dreamed existed.
I know that the downfall of Romainia lead to public revalations of tens of miles of such structures. Reports from former KGB officals indicate tens of miles was about average, so there could be lots of tunnels and bunkers under Belgrade.
Did the Chinese have the misfortune to build their new embassy over top of one of Slobodan's personal bunkers? (Have we seen Slobo since this happened?) Did NATO have the misfortune to not have a map showing what had been built on that site? Or perhaps, did NATO have miscalculations of how badly a building built atop a bunker would be damaged of one of the bunker bombs went off five or ten stories underneath it?
-- Wildweasel (email@example.com), May 10, 1999.
Indeed the bombs were GPS-guided rather than laser-guided. But, this technicality still does not diminish a value of 9 on the weird shit-o- meter scale. If you think about it, it becomes apparent that the one country which gains the most from this incident is Russia. Could it be that they hacked the target data base? Or, could a Russian spy have altered the coordinates of the Federal Directorate of Supply and Procurement in the data base knowing that eventually the directorate would be attacked?
Incidentally the Federal Directorate of Supply and Procurement was (is?) heavily involved in Iraq's nuclear weapons program. Check out:
-- No No (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 10, 1999.
By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell -- and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed. -Adolf Hitler: Mein Kampf
-- Nikoli Krushev (email@example.com), May 10, 1999.
Does anyone else find it a little strange that our military intelligence is using data four years old? Especially in that part of Europe?
-- Dian (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 10, 1999.
NO Way_NO How!!!! Think about it for a minute. Satelite photoghaphy, satelite listening posts, CIA, NSA,INTERPol, etc etc That XY was no ZZZ I had the opt to listen to Col. Jerster give the brief on CNN Live. I wondered, like Nik, if it isn't a case of hacking the DB. They couldn't get away with the "broken arrow" crap cause there were three of them, all ON TARGET. Hell, could of even been the Chinese, they need some WAG over this Chinagate mess. It's not like they don't have the tech to hack us. The DOE computers were down for hours this afternoon. Don't know if they're back online yet or not. Which brings up a whole nuther can-o-worms. Report was, no firewalls compromised, but....??? I was afraid to even ask the question on here about that danger. That was a while back, so I guess it's a mute point.
Another monoclinic curiosity is, they hacked the National Park system. Since the UN is now the key keeper of our parks....Hmmmmm. Anyone not buying that, need only pay a visit this summer to Yellowstone and see who's at the guard shack. Did last summer.
Anyone here still got the link to that Exec. Order pertaining to OUR NATIONAL PARKS!!!
Things are definately screwed up. Everybody jockeying for position.
-- spun@lright (email@example.com), May 11, 1999.
what if the Chinese "accidentally" bombed a US Embassy somewhere, would that be regarded as "an innocent screw up"
-- dick o' the dale (rdale@coynet..com), May 11, 1999.
I heard this morning from a Wall Street Journal reporter that the Chinese are trashing some American businesses. Also, American investors are getting nervous and a travel warning has been advised. Western reporters are getting shoved around over there.
Nuttin like having a billion Chinese pissed at us, along with the Russians.
We were better off with Monica!!!
-- GeeGee (GeeGee@madtown.com), May 11, 1999.