Since Flint devoted the time to address the polly/doomer debate, and my post to Andrew's thread specifically, I think I shall respond in kind. Flint makes the following observations/comments:

>> I haven't seen anyone ever tell anyone else not to prepare. Not once. <<

OH REALLY?? I've read myriad derrisions by polly's that attacked the efforts of those preparing as "crazy" "out of touch", "paranoid", "inciting panic", "delusional" and references to "go ahead and get into your stupid bunker"  all made in response to advocates of preparation. Check the archives...they're full of such derrisions.

>>(Doomers say)Since I believe in preparation, you must not. Therefore, you are against preparation. <<

Flint, when a preparation post is debunked as "CRAZY" and "PARANOID" by a pollytroll, what else are we to assume? Some of you polly's stated anything more than 3 days of preparation is foolish, so is that the benchmark of sanity?

>>"Yes, some people question the legitimacy of each specific concern. Often, these concerns turn out to be guesses, hearsay, and unsupportable. Sometimes later evidence shows they were flat wrong, and those who questioned their legitimacy are vindicated."<<

Yes they are guesses Flint. Y2K is a big unknown. All we can do is guess. However, we can extrapolate speculation based on the level of spin by spokesman, doublespeak and re-statements, while measuring the amount of money and effort being spent on a "non-problem".

>> But that doesn't mean anyone is denying y2k is a serious concern in the vain hopes that their lifestyle will be preserved. Quite the opposite, the status quo is best preserved by recognizing the danger and attacking it early, persistently and hard.<<

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY POLLYTROLLS HAVE BEEN ASSAULTING THOSE THAT BELIEVE Y2K COULD TRIGGER TEOTWAWKI. Polly's assume (as Andrew articulated perfectly in his thread) that belief in a meltdown scenario and actions taken to self-preserve will TRIGGER a self-fulfilling prophecy that will adversely affect them worse than any actual Y2K glitches will.

..And as far as "recognizing the danger and attacking it early, persistently and hard"  cannot refer to Y2K awareness or remediation, as folks have been screaming for over 4 years to utter deafness about this problem.

>>"You don't preserve the status quo by ignoring threats to that status quo. You can make a *much* stronger case that the doomers' actions are more likely to preserve the status quo.<<

That's ridiculous. You can't possibly be that stupid Flint. To the average polly or the willfully ignorant, ignoring threats DOES preserve their PERCEPTION of security. They don't want a panic. They're convinced that if enough people start to worry and panic about Y2K, or even start distrusting the State, things will go downhill -- and of course they're right. So debunking the "scaremongers" and dismissing the news forestalls the inevitable, and sustains the belief that "They'll get it fixed and worked-out in time". Polly's also don't want anyone to have an advantage over them if in fact there does turn out to be a problem. They would rather have the government or civic leaders handle the situation and prevent folks from taking things into their own hands. It's called a lack of trust in neighbors and fellow Americans.

>>(INVAR wrote): If you read their posts, what they are most afraid of is people returning to self- reliant modes of living, existing and thinking, as that ideology threatens the power of the State (community) wherein they believe all benefits we enjoy as a nation are derrived. 

>>Utter nonsense. What pollys object to is firm convictions based on unwarrented assumptions, supported by insufficient data. <<

Why is my statement utter nonsense?? I've got enough political background to know for a fact that the Liberal-Socialist ideology IS BASED ON the belief that all benefits we enjoy as a society were either founded or derrived from government. Government is the arbiter of Fairness and Security. Without it they believe we degrade into anarchy and usury, ignoring the fact that government is abusing and using the citizenry for their own continuity and propagation.

And as far as "unwarranted assumptions..." is it "unwarrant ed" to build a storm shelter on a sunny day because there is unsufficient data to be convicted that a tornado is a possibility??

Tell that to residents of Oklahoma City.

>> (Doomers say) : Nobody can prove that y2k effects will be mild, therefore they will be severe. Because nothing is being done and severe consequences are guaranteed, we're doomed.<<

Hey Flint, NO ONE has been able to prove Y2K effects WON"T be disasterous either. But alot of evidence from case history and testimony to WHAT MIGHT happen to independent systems has spurned speculation as to what might happen en-masse to the entire infrastructure. Add human nature to that mix and you've got the TEOTWAKI speculation.

>>"And the proof is that the overwhelming tide of good news coming in is lies told by shills!<<"

What else are we to think when we have an Administration that supports falsehoods from an Admitted Known-Liar, countless doublespeak and spin from authorities? Most of the 'good news" polly's like Norm post are easily dismissed by articles from other authorities or memo's that state the opposite of what is publicly stated and the lies that are found-out later (ala the Pentagon's remediation efforts this past February). We cannot take the news at face value anymore, you have to read between the lines to see the clever use of shift, blame, spin and admissions without admission.

>>"If anything, self-reliance requires skill, competence, clear thinking, and the ability to learn from our mistakes. The total lack of logic demonstrated by the doomers, combined with their inability to learn, works strongly against this self-reliance. Those who view the world realistically, recognize that the danger is real but not guaranteed, and adapt to changing circumstances are the most self- reliant of all.<<"

What a high opinion you hold of yourself Flint. You have revealed yourself to be the Elitist that I have known you were. Where is the lack of LOGIC in anything I or other so-called doomers have posted?? Speculation perhaps, but LOGICAL speculation has been the hallmark of those that believe we're in serious trouble and need to make ready.

And what are we unable to learn Flint?? Your idiotic ideology?? Perhaps we wish not to LEARN it, but to rebuke it. And Flint, being realistic does not mean waiting to the last second to adapt to changes, that proves fatal most times. Ask anyone who was hit by a hurricane if they'd advise waiting until the danger was imminent before taking action.

>>"The ability to think logically and clearly, to read what's there, is (I think) a worthy goal. Those who read the same things between all the lines no matter what those lines actually say are troubled people. Doomers worship the ideology of doom. By and large, the pollys have conceded that the dangers are real, but shouldn't be fabricated or distorted or exaggerated. If there's any ideology there, is a belief in the basic value of thoughtful intelligence that education is supposed to bring us.<<

Yeah that's right Flint, Doomers love believing that their wives, their children and their families will be imperiled, and that millions of folks are gonna die. We live for that! We love waking up each day knowing that the world will be turned upside down, and desperate humanity will resort to historical barbarism! We worship doom! We hate being optimistic and happy!

>> (INVAR wrote): What purpose does it serve for a Pollyanna to discourage anyone from taking Y2K seriously? Simple, it prevents them from relying on themselves, and reliant on the State if there's an emergency.

>>Can you point to a single post here, by anyone at all, and say "Here is a person who demonstrates a lack of self-reliance"?<<

Yes. Everyone that worries about Doomers. Everyone that has expressed relief and gladness in martial law, troop dispersements and governmental controls regarding Y2K. Everyone that attacked those that discussed firearms and their use - Y2K and beyond. Everyone who expressed faith in Bill Clinton and this government. Everyone who expressed faith in the continuation of remediation, JIT inventory and Utilities. Everyone that believes what banking officials tell them about their money being safe in a fractional reserve system. Everyone that has derrided those that posted preparation tips. Check the archives for myriad examples of each of these. As the definition proves, those relying on government, services, utilities and police/military for their safety are not self-reliant are they? They are dependant. That also is nothing to say of the millions on welfare and Social Security.

>>"You have begun to project a fantasy onto reality, and then you are looking and seeing your fantasy. The issue here isn't a matter of faith in the State. The issue here is bugs in computer code.<<

WRONG FLINT!!! The issue IS faith in the state BECAUSE THAT IS THE SOLUTION BEING PRESENTED!!!!!!!! The bugs in the code CAUSED the problem.....the State is making contingency and being relied on for the solution!!!!

>>>(INVAR): For the PollyTroll, It's all about power.

>>>>HAW HAW. Sorry, but this is getting absurd. For the optimist and pessimist alike, it's about evidence, and logic, and trends, and progress, and results. It's about assessment, and remediation, and replacement, and testing. Where does this "power" stuff come from, other than your own imagination?<<

Because Flint, as history has proven over and over, EVERYTHING IS ABOUT POWER. It is all about control. Why bother fixing Y2K at all if there wasn't a position or status at stake??? Are you THAT stupid?? To think that evidence, logic, trends and progress and results happen in a vacuum apart from the geopolitical/social spectrum is as absurd as saying the food you eat has no bearing on your body's performance. Just how ignorant are you? Those rose-colored glasses you wear must be the size of Coke bottles.

>>>"Most people have what they consider better things to do with their lives then fret over a future they can't control. The day-to-day business of living is a genuine challenge for most of us. We cannot take up all the various causes some people take so seriously, and live our daily lives while actively participating in all these causes. Yet there is a subgroup of people actively pursuing each cause, and it consumes their lives.<<<

I think your assesment of the average-Joe American is correct here. Unfortunately to the detriment of our freedom, our values and our sovereignty. By being consumed with self, we have watched our freedoms erode for the last 35 years. By not worrying about anyone but self, we are apathetic towards threats to our safety and security, whether it's Y2K or nuclear weapons secrets being given to avowed enemies. >>(INVAR): Doomers, if they were successful - would benefit by having a nation making themselves ready for whatever adverse situation arises (whether nuclear, natural or Y2K), thus preventing the kind of chaos and insanity that makes iself manifest when the need for sustenance is great, and the usual depots are not available.

>>>"This is true of anyone. But read what you just wrote very carefully! You are saying doomers, through their actions, are *preventing* great problems. In other words, they are working to preserve as much of the status quo as possible, and arranging to recreate the rest as quickly as possible. And I agree. But above, you said that's what the pollys were doing! You need a little bit of internal consistency here. Logic is helpful.<<<

No Flint...you aren't using logic. What I said (if you read what I wrote) was that polly's RELY on government, utilities and the State to fix problems and preserve the status quo, while Doomers take their self-presevation and lives into their own hands. The difference between doomers and polly's here is the ideological solution to the Y2K problem: confidence in the government/existing infrastructure to maintain the system or self, due to no confidence in the system.

Doomers are attacked daily for their lack of faith in the system everyone has grown dependant on.

>>>"Let's summarize here:

1) Preparation helps preserve the status quo.<<<

No, preparation preserves the self, which in turn would preserve the community collectively if everyone was prudent.

>>> 2) Pollyannas attack bad thinking. This is not fear. <<<<

No, pollyannas attack common sense and logical speculation, as an outgrowth of fear. Fear of the individual that divorces himself from the current infrastructure for preservation. Read: anyone that fits that description must be a militia-type bent on insurrection --paraphrased from Y2K-Pro's myriad myopic posts.

>>> 3) The issue is computer bugs, not centralized control. Earth to INVAR!<<<

The issue is how centralized control is being suggested to deal with the computer bugs AND the reaction to them. Earth to Flint!!!

>>>(INVAR): A well-armed home, with larders and root cellars packed with stores, with livestock and seed for the garden and a local water source is anathema to them.

>>>I must ask who is "them"?<<

Them are Liberal Socialists that post on this board with pollyannic rants that derride anyone that distrusts government of this current system as "crazy and dangerous". JBD, Y2K Pro, Helena and others are prime examples.

>>> "Numerous people the nutballs have called pollys have detailed their experiences, their preparations, their backgrounds. They have guns. They grew up on farms. They have stockpiles. They have local water sources.<<

Which popular Polly or forum troll fits THAT description??

>>"Now you say that this is anathema to them? Have you been reading what's been said, or ignoring every single bit of it because you are convinced you know better? A better illustration of denial you could hardly have provided here.<<"

I am convinced I know what is better for myself and family than some polly or troll that says I'm nuts and am going to be responsible for starting a panic. I know what's better for myself and family than some government agency does. Notice Flint, I'm not attacking those that choose to ignore the situation, or even post pollyannic news...I attack those that attack doomers, newshounds and those urging preparation. But I am impatient with those that are willfully ignorant. >>>"I have publicly offered to share on this forum. So have others. The only people who have take then I-got-mine-buddy, scram-or-be-shot attitude have been the really hardcore doomers. They talk of hiding their food. They talk of buying gold and silver in other peoples' names. They talk of moving to rural locations where strangers will be shot.<<<

And what's wrong with anyone that decides to do that? It is still a free country is it not? Or do you assume that because your king is prez that we now have a dictatorship?? YOU may think that way of thinking is unhealthy, but unhealthy to whom? YOU? The community?

Now who's fearful?

>>>"They rant about imaginary conspiracies. They reek with fear."<<<

Imaginary conspiracies huh? I guess the New York Times is nothing but a Right Wing Rag that spouts militia-shit? Read about the Chineese espionage? Read about the LEGACY code and the obstruction of investigators by the Justice Dept into that espionage?? You polly's slammed Andy last December when he posted a story about this. I guess you simply choose to ignore posts and evidence presented by those you ideologically oppose....hypocrite!

>>>"And here you are, projecting this fear onto those who ask for real evidence and reject woolly speculations as unverified. Sad."

Have you provided "REAL EVIDENCE" of verified, remediated and tested compliance by ANYONE Flint? I'm not talking generalizations and creative syntax like "We expect..., we forecast...we believe....etc., etc. No, you haven't. So we're rejecting the posts you and Norm place as "wooly speculations, unverified". Sad.

>>>"Most of your (and Andy's) efforts have been to deny all good y2k news as lies, and accept all y2k speculations as facts, and then wander off into lunatic fringe political theory.<<<

I love how you idiots spin shit. Because we ask hard questions to prove the conclusions you present as evidence of "good Y2K news", you automatically assume this translates to lies. While this is true to the degree that we won't accept their claims of 100% compliance without all I's dotted and T's crossed, that is not to debunk the news that progress is being attempted and possibly even being made. But moreso, there IS alot of lying and coverup and obstruction going on, making it difficult to believe ANYTHING officials say. Just ask Diane Squire. She and I are on opposite ends of ideology on a great-many things, but she is hardly what I would call a "doomer' in the way you intend it. Yet she has received incredible hate and vitriol for her recent news posts that questioned the sacred cows polly's view as gods.

>>>If you return to the subject, and post a few verifiable sources telling of hopeless projects, you might get some converts. Off-topic ranting might make you feel good, but it doesn't help anyone make more informed choices about their preparations.<<<

Converts? Never happen. The lines are drawn. I'm not going to convice you, and likewise you aren't going to convince me. This is almost a fruitless waste of my time, except for the fact others will be reading it and will cajole their own analysis - which I will be glad to read.

As far as the old Off Topic argument...as I've said, The Geopolitical Events Now Playing Out, Is The Canvas Y2K Will Be Painted On.

Logic does escape you Flint. Stop emoting and start thinking.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), May 06, 1999

Answers

*Clap, clap, clap, clap*!!! I agree with you INVAR. I see exactly what you're saying.

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), May 06, 1999.

And of course, you neglect to mention the pure Lefties like:

JBS

Followers of North's Father in Law

Chittum

Mr. Ritter, the Survivalist long before Y2k was a pimple on your ass

All absolute PINKS or worse. My God, its a total conspiracy.

Kan U spel INVAR try alt: TWIT

-- J. Edgar (j.edgar@heever.org), May 06, 1999.

wow!now THAT'S a rant!good form!worthy of "bob"dobbs!

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), May 06, 1999.

Zoobie, you're right! Ranting is NOT flaming, though most Net newbies don't understand that. It is an art form and it does further discussion in the right hands. INVAR is a master. Let's see if Flint can truly reply in kind with a meaningful rant of his own. I'm not sure computer engineers have it in them ......

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), May 06, 1999.

INVAR YOU ARE THE MASTER!!!!

This is a piece of art BRAVO, BRAVO!!!

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), May 06, 1999.

I'm fairly new here. My landlady said she quit this forum becaue it was full of "nuts and right wing wackos." I laughed at her. But it sparked my curiousity so I asked for the web address. After reading that swill, I'm not so sure I should have laughed.

-- gale (guide@earthling.net), May 06, 1999.

Invar, I am impressed. You have shot yourself in the foot with your selector set to full auto, and your aim never wavered. I could have searched the archives for days and not found better illustrations of every point I made than you have provided.

What can I say but thank you? I couldn't rest my case more comfortably if I tried.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 06, 1999.

Flint --- That's not a rant or even an answer. You're losing your edge. For instance,

">>> 2) Pollyannas attack bad thinking. This is not fear. <<<<

No, pollyannas attack common sense and logical speculation, as an outgrowth of fear. Fear of the individual that divorces himself from the current infrastructure for preservation. Read: anyone that fits that description must be a militia-type bent on insurrection --paraphrased from Y2K-Pro's myriad myopic posts."

INVAR is right, not per se about this forum but about the way the larger culture treats any serious self-reliance vis-a-vis the system and, of course, Y2K. Cf the U.S. media.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), May 06, 1999.

Big Dog:

I doubt it would be worthwhile for me to go through each inconsistency, missed point, self-contradiction, glowing illustration of what I was saying, etc., one by one. I would hope that any intelligent reader would see these things without assistance, and any True Believer wouldn't see them if their very life depended on it.

If you can't see this and wish to debate about it, I'll be glad to do so offline.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 06, 1999.

That's because I GOT you cornered Flint.

My observations are unassailable by logical conclusion, wherein you slammed the whole piece under a generalization.

Typical of Liberals BTW.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), May 06, 1999.

I agree with Big Dog on this last point. I've had people who've seen me preparing start asking very rude questions about my politics. I've had people suggest that I'm weakminded, possibly swayed by a "cult," because I understand that I'm living in a complex dynamical system that's at a bifurcation point, and I've prepared accordingly.

Relax, INVAR and Big Dog. There will be plenty of time for these snotty little busybodies to eat crow as we slide through a massive economic contraction toward an unprecedented communications and logistics breakdown. September, if not August, the rush will be on. Don't waste a minute with these Organization Men, if you aren't 100% prepared. They aren't worth two seconds of your time.

Dano

-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), May 06, 1999.

Flint commented:

"Big Dog:

I doubt it would be worthwhile for me to go through each inconsistency, missed point, self-contradiction, glowing illustration of what I was saying, etc., one by one. I would hope that any intelligent reader would see these things without assistance, and any True Believer wouldn't see them if their very life depended on it.

If you can't see this and wish to debate about it, I'll be glad to do so offline."

Flint, WEAK mighty WEAK!! I think your running out of BS.

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), May 06, 1999.

None so blind as those who will not see.

First, Invar says *pollys* say it's about power. Then *he* says it's all about power. Uh, consistency anyone? Well, who needs clear thinking when you're right?

I said nobody told anyone not to prepare. His response: HE is being attacked. He is preparing. Therefore, preparation is being attacked. Logic anyone? Well... etc.

He said pollys were fearful. A joke. Pollys see nothing to fear. He fears y2k, he fears the government, he fears conspiracies, he fears the NWO, he fears a police state, he shivers with one fear after another. He calls his fears reasonable. Perhaps they are. But if you tremble with fear, should you accuse those who show no fear of doing the same? Projection, anyone. Well...

Ah, why bother?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 06, 1999.

Flint, you are an unmitigated moron!!

Logic? Your last post posesses none.

>>First, Invar says *pollys* say it's about power. Then *he* says it's all about power. Uh, consistency anyone? Well, who needs clear thinking when you're right?<<

You obviously have no comprehension skills. I DID NOT SAY POLLYs SAY it's about power. I SAID it's all about power based on historical and present-tense cultural events. I said via analysis, the motivating factor behind the polly/liberal mindset is holding onto status or power. Polly's or Liberals would NEVER admit their ideological positions are about power. And neither would you. You need to stop lying to yourself and face facts.

>>>>I said nobody told anyone not to prepare. His response: HE is being attacked. He is preparing. Therefore, preparation is being attacked. Logic anyone? Well... etc. <<<

Another slippage into idiocy Flint. When a post about your level of preparation, or suggestions posted about preparation or the possible dangers of Y2K is assailed as "insane" and "irresponsible" by a polly --THAT IS AN ATTACK you idiot. Simple. I guess not for the simple- minded like you however. And Flint, plenty of pollys have outrightly condemned the levels of preparation and the calls for alarm on this very board as scare mongering. I suppose you define those as "lovebumps?"

>>>He said pollys were fearful. A joke. Pollys see nothing to fear.<<<

Then why are you so adamant that we doomers are crazy and shouldn't be listened to? Hmmm???? Why get upset or slam those who believe that Y2K will go Milne, or those that believe in evidence presented about the NWO? If it's just for your own bloated self-absorbed ego, you're an asshole. If you're generally alarmed by what you perceive as a cultish movement that could cause disruptions...then that's FEAR Flint. You were saying?....

>>>He fears y2k, he fears the government, he fears conspiracies, he fears the NWO, he fears a police state, he shivers with one fear after another.<<<

At one time in this country Flint, fears that you mentioned above were called vigilance, and were applauded as responsible. Fear at one time was a guardian of our fragile and cherished freedoms. It kept us alert to potential enemies and situations. Now, because your ideology is dependant on the current infrastructure and the State, and depends on complacency by the populace to maintain control, concerns about these things you attribute to my fears are nothing but fearful rantings of an extremist wacko in your mind. By insinuation you claim that my fears are unjustified and dangerous to others.

They are only dangerous to those dependant on the system and those that need the fear of my ideology to stay in power and further an agenda.

>>He calls his fears reasonable. Perhaps they are. But if you tremble with fear, should you accuse those who show no fear of doing the same? Projection, anyone. Well... <<<

I think I addressed this point above. If you have nothing to fear from a doomer, why derride and engage?? If it's to clarify a position that's one thing...but that is not what you do as your last post proves.

As for "trembling with fear", not one doomer I've read is "trembling". They're ACTING on conviction. DOING what they need to do to prepare for what they FEAR may come about to threaten them.

You show plenty of fear Flint. Fear of doomers. Fear of their convictions. Fear of Conservatives. Fear of Civil Libertarians. Fear of self-fulfilling prophecies by doomers that act on conviction. Fear of those who arm themselves and hide in the country.

Fear that doomers MIGHT be right.

...and then fear that you are caught unprepared.

What your problem is Flint is your bloated pride and your self- importance and your blind faith to the gods of this age.

To your very peril.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), May 06, 1999.

INVAR commented:

"What your problem is Flint is your bloated pride and your self- importance and your blind faith to the gods of this age.

To your very peril."

Amen!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), May 06, 1999.

Gale,

Sounds to me like you were just looking for confirmation of your liberal preconceptions. Why do you think INVAR's missive was "swill" huh??? My guess is that you will go away smug in your Yuppie fantasy world. Have fun while you can. It's later than you think.

JJ

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), May 06, 1999.

Well, all I know is that over on the anti-Doom board, they are convinced that the TB2000 forum is a contagious mental illness (or in their words "meme infection") spawned by Yourdon/North. So if you're here on this forum, it means you are meme-infected.

For one of us to think preparedness, by definition it isn't because we made an informed or independent decision, because that's the nature of the meme -- we can't think for ourselves. (What would constitute proof that someone became disinfected from the meme? If they left the forum. Kind of a circular argument.)

This is their fixed belief, cannot be argued, and will never change. CPR appears to have a vested interest (by all the energy he's put into debunking) in seeing this forum self-destruct and has set out how and when that will happen. He wants to go on record as having predicted every bit of it!

(In any conversation, it's good to know the core premises.)

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), May 07, 1999.

.."At one time in this country Flint, fears that you mentioned above were called vigilance, and were applauded as responsible. Fear at one time was a guardian of our fragile and cherished freedoms. It kept us alert to potential enemies and situations. Now, because your ideology is dependant on the current infrastructure and the State, and depends on complacency by the populace to maintain control, concerns about these things you attribute to my fears are nothing but fearful rantings of an extremist wacko in your mind. By insinuation you claim that my fears are unjustified and dangerous to others."..

Polly = State dependant, a peice of the soilent green.

Doomer = Self reliant, another peice of that tenderloin please.

Which one really is a gloomy thought?

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@aol.com), May 07, 1999.

Face it. Flint has always been an idiot and every time he posts he certifies himself as a bigger one.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), May 07, 1999.

Face it, we think that most doomers have gone overboard and are total idiots, especially Paul Milne. Every time you post you confirm it. I guess we're even then.

-- Buddy (.@...), May 07, 1999.

Buddy, I must say I gladly welcome Milne's contributions. He is loonymeister extraordinaire.

Pale wannabes like Andy, Invar and Crono sound like ordinary people with organic brain damage. Milne, by contrast, sounds like an AI program gone berserk. You never know when it will misparse something into some strange and wonderful non sequitur, and when it will just fall back on its small library of generic insults and stock phrases. And unlike Dieter, it performs these marvels without apparent effort. One thing y2k really needs is comic relief.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 07, 1999.

SPeaK OF DieTER NoT!!!!! jaCKaL BReaTH!!!!!! DIetER IS TryINg tO SLeeP, IS he NOt??????? yOU aRe aLL IDIots ANd foOLIsh inFIDEls!!!!! EacH Of yOU!!!!!! GO awAY, OF The momeNT IMmediaTE, YoU FRothY MOuthED BabOonS!!!!

silENce!!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), May 07, 1999.