Littleton (Columbine).......Why ?? : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Does it really take a rocket scientist or someone with twenty years of college to answer this ?? Do we need to rely on the experts whoever they may be ?? NO. We are so caught up with the newest SUV's (sports utility vehicles) IRA's, and 401(k)'s. We spend quality time with our TV's, surround sound entertainment systems, PC's, Gameboys and Playstation's. Our kids can drive BMW's to high school. We can worship our jobs, our educations, our lifestyles and our toys. We are in fact worshiping the creation more than the creator. What did Eric and Dylen really want....positive attention, quality time, the one thing all the money in the world can't buy - LOVE. It starts at home parents. Kids learn by example. We as parents may give the kids what they want, but we are not giving them what they need - LOVE. Don't pawn them off onto daycare, teachers, shrinks, athletic programs and all the other excuses we find for not taking responsibility for them ourselves. They want to know that the two most important people in the world LOVE them. We give them good quality time and love and guess what, they won't turn to ugliness for their self worth and acceptance. The kids would then put Hollywood, the media, the video game manufacturers, the drug dealers and the suicidal/homocidal music out of business as "they" (the kids) would have no need for these means of acceptance. This would demand change on our parts though....ouch, that hurts. "Do as I say, not as I do" does not work. Our actions speak louder than any of our words ever will. It starts with us as individuals....are you willing to make the changes in your life that that demands ?? Let' do in our idolistic lifestyle that we support before it does us in.

-- Andrew (, April 25, 1999


Don't worry, Andrew. Y2K is going to take care of the current ills of our society. Unfortunately, it's going to replace them with a whole new set of ills.

-- Nabi Davidson (, April 26, 1999.

I fear that Nabi is right - be careful what you wish for...

Along the same lines as Andrew's post... warning, this is long - but worth the read...

"The War On Individuality Comes Home - Littleton Shootings Predictable"

James Neff


When I was in high school... when we all were in high school... there was a sick, twisted system long ago established by which the gifted -- those who by nature do not meld with the "Borg" of normative society -- were trampled, humiliated and slowly beaten down psychologically, and often times physically, until we fit the mold or perished.

Some of you reading this were the instruments of that torment, and you yourselves were guided and manipulated by peer pressures to do so. Adapt or die. And some of you reading this are still struggling with well disguised and hidden scars from those years. Adapt or die. Others... sloughed it off, burying it deep in the subconscious.

Adapt or die.

But some are not with us anymore. They dropped a load of sleeping pills to escape it; they pulled the trigger on Dad's 12 gauge in the garage seeking that perfect sleep; they wandered off in a fugue state never to be seen or heard from again. All the while the conformers, the normals, the happy-go-lucky cogs of the great Borg went on morally blind to the incredible tragedy surrounding them and in which they blindly -- or knowingly -- participated. No body count.

For me, that horrible period of life was more than 20 years ago. It was absolute hell then. It must be a sheer spiritual apocalypse on the soul of teens today, as things have distinctly gone from bad to worse. It has become hopeless and depraved, sending a veritable few over the edge to grasp hard steel and cock back shotguns to make it come to an end. An end to the system of pain, and as we've seen in Littleton, and end to themselves as well.

What we are seeing in Littleton, Colorado, and in the past 10 years in various other schools around the nation, is literally war. The geeks, the weirdos, the nerds, the outcast, the troubled-gifted, the challenged and the general "breakfast club" is no longer comfortable with crumbling into a million pieces and dissolving into the background to appease the accepted and normative jocks, 'socies' and picture perfect all-American jackasses soon to be our future political jackasses; afflicted of soul and body for the rest of their lives, the outcasts are fighting back. They have declared war on the normals and it's a real war, with real blood and real guns. Its a unique kink in the process of social evolution (or de-evolution), in a sense. Just so many decades of this can go on before the free radical stops bouncing around and starts attacking and creating a cancer that eventually kills the host.

The question is, is it deserved? That is not to say did any of these young people in Littleton deserve to die, but rather: Is this war, this 'rage against the machine' deserved?

I say yes. It has been a long time coming. It is much deserved. Not the deaths, not the tragedy. It's horrific that it has come to this! I have nothing but pity and sorrow for the victims and their families. But on a raw-truth level, this sort of lashing out is utterly predictable and sustained by a system even those parents participate in, regarding it as "normal" and "good." We reap what we sow. And I truly wonder how many of the people closely involved with this debacle have any clue how much they themselves feed the beast. They feed it when they hand their kid a charge card and tell them to go forth and reflect what the many varied cliques demand in clothing, in music, in style. They feed it when they buy into this disturbed system that creates a hierarchy of acceptability and conformity, and in turn demonstrate to their children that the 'way things are' is good... right... the 'way it should be' because it has always been that way.

I've heard it so many times it makes me want to puke. "Well it was good enough for me," says the parent from the previous generation, who sloughs off this issue entirely, "and I turned out okay."


No. Wrong. You turned out completely screwed up! If this is your perspective, you're part of the machine and have been. You were 'absorbed.' You traded your soul for a piece of the American pie, sold your birthright for a meal, chose conformity for the sake of an easy glide, and now you can't see, can't hear, can't think for yourself in the slightest. Its an easy road this way. Count the costs. And the same old excuses live on...

"It's my job."

"I was just following orders."

"Well, I survived it."

"What's wrong with the kids these days?"

What wrong with them is YOU.

It's all filtered for you and through you. Living outside of this system requires daily fortitude and spiritual upkeep. It is sacrificial. It is HARDER to live outside the system, where truth can really be truth and lies are exposed, no matter what the cost, ridicule, chastisement from the "world" at large. And most don't want to sacrifice. So they don't. They join up. It's very subtle. It's gradual. But its all consuming. And then, you're gone. The great dark- backward has had its way with you and what's left is not a rock's throw from 'Stepford,' repackaged for a new era so the seams don't show. And the beauty part is, you don't recognize it. They took your ability to recognize it ages ago. You gave it to them.

Wake up, sleeper.

This is the hideous, sinking, perpetuating gearworks of the system, designed to keep the sparks of imaginative, creative, unique life- force to an absolute minimum and populate the great gorge of culture with a vast throng of media-manipulated, perfectly possessed and automatonically controlled 'bots' who guarantee the survival of THE SYSTEM into the next generation! It trashes people who are going to create new people to trash, a cyclic, patterned process. Where and when will it end? It ended in Littleton, in a blaze of blood and bombs when two (possibly more, this story is far from over!) young boys decided "that was it... no more pain", no more being crushed and ground down to a pulp. Time for the crushing and grinding to reverse. Is anyone really shocked? Yes. The normals are stunned and shaking in their boots. They can't rationalize it because they gave up real rationalization many, many years ago.

Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols in my time was singing, "Anger is an energy!" and "I am an Anarchist, I am an Antichrist!" as a powerful downbeat on a podium for change, a throbbing mantra echoing out to all the disenfranchised, neglected, trampled kids. The gleam in his eyes across that broken, tormented face was intense, hypnotic and resonating. Generation X now has the blood of Nirvana's Kurt Kobain for a psychic ritual baptism, and the rites of passage are piercings, scarifications and tattoos declaring their divorce from the system. Hurt yourself before THEY hurt you.. and it won't hurt anymore. Control the hurt. Control pain. This is the solution when you're out numbered and know you cannot control the system. Sadly, they simply joined the 'other' well-crafted, perfectly controlled and manipulated hand of a multi-armed cultural diety. They have escaped nothing. When the wiles of youth wear off, the scars and holes and markings will be there to forever remind them of what happened. A stigmata of the machine. We have yet to see the end result of this particular schism in society. Brace yourselves for this one to explode.

In Littleton, that control took another course, however. It didn't parcel itself into thrashing guitars and strobes and acid house and now well established alternative-scene self-therapy (I hope everyone reading this realizes that that is precisely what we're seeing in the X generation and the music world now... ad-hoc, self-generated therapy for dealing with the madness of this culture and society. When you look at it, realize this fact. They are having to do it themselves, because no one else is going to do it for them. No one gives a damn. And it beats killing people, no?). It broke out with gritted teeth; with Network's prophetic "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!" into the hard reality we now hardly make contact with today, thanks to the glitz and glimmer of cathode-ray visions and videodrome-like fantasy worlds which we've adopted into our lifestyles without any thought to its power over us. For the mature and rational, these things are not a danger. They can be simple entertainment. For the rest of the populace... they are simply elements of mind control. The New World Order is succeeding in its design to twist us and shape us as it sees fit. And if that sounds like paranoid madness to you, then you're already dead. Another one for the pile.

They don't train police officers and airline pilots using simulators for nothing! The idea is to wrap that virtual reality around the subjects' skull until he or she is perfectly programmed to respond to the situation given. Taking the abnormal situation and making it normative, as though fully experienced and logged to the memory; this is the very design. These kids in Littleton have grown up with their sensory mechanism entirely dominated by a programmable emotional matrix. From the music to the movies to the video games, they have been slowly "implanted" with very powerful, ultra-realistic impulse driven scenarios. Substitute jocks and socies for zombies and enemy space craft. Plastic reality. Plastic morality. Bang bang.. zap... kill 'em all an let God sort 'em out. Training ground for the mentally ill.

And heightening this mind control is a diet of absolute trash, speeding up the system with Jolt and Surge cola caffeine bombs, maltodextrins and complex sugars and God only knows what else, from habit forming molecular stimulants like excitotoxins to appetite triggers and flavor enhancers as well-crafted in the laboratory as any pharmaceutical dispensed by a physician. A multi-million dollar industry thrives on the casual addictions of our mouthes.. our ears... our minds. A society completely drugged, bugged and programmed.

It's going to happen again, folks. Again and again. The blood is going to flow as high as a horses bridle eventually. Are we going to wake up from this catatonic nightmare and put a stop to it? Or will we simply nod, fold our hands and submit to the NWO and everything it has designed for us? Its not just the kids in school, this effects EVERYTHING. Will we keep believing that NATO is stepping in to stop 'ethnic cleansing' like a knight on a white horse, while it bombs the hell out of northern Serbia, and Belgrade, all the while the REAL battle is 150 miles south where the KLA is desperately trying to fend off Milsovic's Serbian-nazi forces? Not a single bomb has been dropped to aid the rebels. Not one. Will we continue to listen to psychotics in government, backed by billionaires and corporations, propping up one cloned leader after another?

Recently a massively popular hit song was spawned from a newspaper columnists' "good" advice, beginning with sunscreen and roaming through a dozen other categories. It's the first thing I've seen in alternative culture media that had any merit whatsoever. But it didn't go far enough.

Well, in light of recent events, I have my own:

Trust me on this... Homeschool your kids. It's worth making less money for one of you to stay home and deal with it. Sacrifice the commercialized lifestyle you think you should be living for honor and dignity and truth. That's really living. You don't need that new DVD system, you need to spend time with your kid and show them that you love them. Teach them. Discipline them. He or she doesn't need to see what's on the DVD disc anyway. Throw it away. Stop eating crap. Stop eating it with your eyes, your ears, your mouth and your soul. Stop listening to the system, from either side... it's all lies and deceit. Read 1984 again. It's time. Pay attention to the lyrics of the songs your kids are listening to. Watch the movies they watch. Turn off. Tune out. Drop In. Get Real. Stop lying to yourself that you went through it too and it's just a phase. It's not a phase, it's a phaser, and it is set to stun first and kill second. Don't believe everything you read, but read more. Read what THEY tell you not to read. Instead of TV, watch reality. It might surprise you what goes on out there. Watch your kids. Closely. But most of all, trust me on this... homeschool your children. Don't give them over to the machine. They're too precious.


U.S. President Bill Clinton used his weekly radio address today to talk about the Littleton killings. Clinton said Americans should use the tragedy to end the "culture of violence" and he asked Congress to pass two pieces of legislation that will tighten guns laws. (excerpt from )

-- What? Tighten GUN LAWS? Guns are not the problem here, and Clinton knows it. How many people in school who did not fit the mold did Mr. Bill crush and gring under his ultra-achiever ladder climbing boots? Culture of Violence?? That culture is merely a reflection of emotions deeply rooted in the true problem.

A nauseating attempt by the President to whitewash the situation ---

On the day following this piece, the email is running squarely in support of this viewpoint with dozens and dozens of comments from people who relate to the pressures, abuse and torment these two boys experienced, having experienced it themselves, bringing the situation in Littleton to this tragic end. Only one dissenting email has arrived, thus far. In several IRC (Internet Relay Chat) channels on US.UNDERNET last night, I noticed the general sentiments of IRCers was also dramatically focused on the blame being shared by the students who pushed these two kids to this extreme. You can just beat a dog so many times before it bites back. This is NOT the sentiment or viewpoint one will find reflected in the slightest in the national media, and especially in the grotesque round-the-clock coverage provided by cable news channels like MSNBC.

A few emails have suggested that government mind control is involved. It is certainly not beyond my scope of belief to exclude that distinct possibility. When I say "New World Order" that of course includes the blackest, darkest possible scenarios and conspiracies. There are those that simply refuse to look squarely at the evidence regarding government conspiracy down through history, and for these people, who refuse to enlighten themselves to the facts and will not take the time to unmask the bellowing wizard to know the truth about the man behind the curtain... there is no hope. But for those who have been enlightened, who have forced a hand through the veil and discovered there is more here than meets the eye, kudos! You're on the road, you're aware, awake and that puts the great and powerful "them" in a position to work some serious overtime to construct a new mask fashioned just for you. And it will likely fail. You will see with new eyes, hear with new ears. You will digest everything that comes down the pike through a BS filter and survive this idiotic game.

Thanks to all the non-sleepers out there that took the time to email support. You're the only reason the NWO isn't flying a flag of complete victory!

- Neff

(often & erroneously called "Jeff".. but that's ok :) )


(Email Addresses On File) Recieved: 4/24/99

Subject: FANTASTIC!!!


Just finished reading your essay on "The War On Individuality...". I am literally shaking with the power of it! You have so perfectly verbalized what I've been saying and thinking and feeling for years. And what a voice!

I remember hearing about the shooting on talk radio (we don't watch TV anymore, and haven't since August 16 last year, when I was surfeit with Komrade Klinton's lies) and thinking "Well, I can certainly understand WHY they'd want to kill the jocks". My high-school experiences were normative for any "geek", and I remember getting beaten up more than once on school grounds in broad daylight by our Hometown Heroes.

An event took place in the rural Nebraska town we live in not too long ago. It perfectly fit the programming model you wrote about. It was the annual "Orange and Black Banquet" (yup, the school's colors here are Hallween colors...that gives me the willies!), a sports banquet. No awards are presented, no talks or's just this: the jocks get together, they're served the standard rubber chicken banquet, and then they are marched into the auditorium and the King and Queen of the year are crowned. That's it. When my wife described the ceremony to me (one of her painfully socially conscious co-workers had a kid participating in it), I recognised it immediately for what it was: an initiation ceremony. It was a way of intiating everyone to their place in the local social strata and letting them know that, as long as they live here, they'll never rise higher than they are now. Even as I write this I feel nauseated again. You hit the nail right on the head, James...

Coincidentally (serendipitously?), my wife and I were talking about individuality and living our lives by our own design last night. We do things very differently than the "Collective" would have us wife is a doctor of pharmacy and works full-time outside the home...I am a full-time parent to our daughter and am homeschooling her. I was reminded, as she and I talked, about my sophomore year of high school. I experienced an epiphany...I discovered Emerson's essay "Self Reliance", and it literally changed my life, it showed me that it was GOOD to rage against the machine, that I was RIGHT to be me. It kept me alive through the rest of high school, in a very real way.

After our conversation last night, I went downstairs and got my American Lit book and brought it up and re-read the essay this morning. It was like re-discovering my soul...and so tonight I read your excellent essay (which I've printed off several copies to keep for myself and several to hand out to fellow "resistance fighters") and it was like an affirmation, a roaring wind with tongues of flame. You deserve a've written a nearly perfect manifesto for all the resistance, all of us freedom fighters everywhere. And here I thought you were JUST an extremely talented graphics artist...!



You did a great job with your piece on the school shootings. I thought your take on the event really hit the mark. Keep up the good work!!!

Subject: Great article

Trust me on this, we need more thinkers like you, willing to put their thoughts out there, to stand up and be counted. Keep up the good work, and great site. Thanks, Dave.

Subject: your essay on school shooting

James -- Your essay is very insightful. Thank you for writing it. I wish it could be printed in a major media outlet like Newsweek or the Washington Post.

Subject: conformity & an unusual book

Hello, James Neff:

Good article. I agree with you completely. The worst part, as I saw it, was that if you are sufficiently different than other people-- say, substantially brighter--it is very hard to behave like one of them. You just don't know where they are coming from, or what they're going to do. Bright kids have a serious adaptation problem in our society. Unless they are lucky enough to have supportive parents and a good school, they're going to have a hellish time. .

I used to think that when I grew up I would turn into a normal person. I thought that's what growing up meant. It took years and years before I evaluated my diligent effort to become like other people, and realized that _it should have worked by now_. Maybe there was something wrong with the basic premise...

There's a book called "This Tree Grows Out of Hell," by Ptolemy Tompkins. I think you would find it well worth reading. Tompkins discusses the Aztec culture. I'd always wondered why they did all those human sacrifices. IMHO Tompkins figured it out. He never once compares that culture to ours, but we clearly have the same problem, and we're doing something quite similar. There's a _reason_ for these episodes of bizarre violence. And for their reflection in the popular culture. This book completely changed the way I thought about us, our culture and our devolution. --It's readable and short. Tompkins doesn't pay me to promote his book.

Good wishes

Subject: Your article

First of all I am 40 years old, but I remember very well the hell of being an outcast! But, your article blames it all on the parents! Bullshit! I have a daughter that is into Marylin Manson and believes it's alright to cut his name into your skin ! Because her friends are doing it! She worries about her weight even though she's at what is considered a perfect body weight. No I don't just ignore it! I've had her in counseling, I refuse to medicate her into submission! And I care so, is it my fault? It's easy to blame it on me! I've tried to nurture a relationship since her birth! Her sister is the bipolar opposite did I play favorites? No! Everyone it's seems today has all the answers! But they're working. What I'm trying to say is when your a teenager your friends become all important! These things have happened in the past, they just weren't plastered all over the media! Now I also wonder how tthat all this is NATO's Fault? We're all responsible for today's problems. Take responsibility for your own destiny! I had a rough childhood, but if you give up they win! Today it's too easy to cop out and say it's MOM's fault, it's Dad's fault, it's the NWO! Give me a break! I've been in the Air Force for twenty years and believe me most experienced NCO's and Officers are not war mongers. I don't like what's going on in Kosova or Iraq any more than you! I believe Europe should handle it's own problems, and we should offer moral support! Like Greece, if we minded are own business more often we wouldn't have so many enemies! But this has nothing to do with our children. The problem is kid's listen to anyone that's sounds believeable at the time! The reason I'm writing is my daughter read your article, she showed it to me as proof that what happened in Colorado was not the gunmans fault! It was mine!

My Reply:


I think maybe you missed the gyst of my piece. I'm asking parents -- since they are in the spotlight right now in the media as relates to the slaughter in Littleton -- to look at themselves and question thier own reality. Deeply. If your daughter thinks carving the name of Marylin Manson into her flesh is anything OTHER than a reaction to complete mind control put upon her by 1001 powerful influences bent on the destruction of a generation... she's dead wrong. And you can show her this email. But I ALSO want to make it clear, and do in the article... we Moms and Dads are ALSO involved in this affliction of culture. Where and how and why do we support the madness on the small scale, or in ways we don't readily recognize as part of the problem.

No, I'm NOT blaming mom and dad. I'm REMINDING mom and dad that they too are part of the problem, NO ONE is divorced from it. No one.

Additionallly, if you look at my piece, I'm make a pin point focus on those who don't think they're part of the problem. When you bounce back with feeling insulted and falsely accused, that's the time to look harder and deeper. But I'm not isolating parents as the core reason, and my piece states this clearly. Its the system, as a whole. We're spoonfed this madness, all of us.

You're daughter is right about one thing, however. It's NOT the gunmens fault. They are the FIRST victims. Their victims are the second in line, and society is the third. Right now we're seeing endless hours of weeping parents and kids on TV in Littleton. Among the ones that did not lose a child, the bulk of them are crying beause they cannot believe that the dog they've been beating for so many years got angry and bit back, and that bite hurt like hell. Reap and sow. It's a simple reality.

Im not saying the dog should bite! I'm saying don't be suprised when it does. It's a wake up call, and it came in a horrible fray of blood and destruction in this case. I have a kid. 13 yrs old. A girl. She's homeschooled and STILL is influenced by the society around her, so I know what you're saying. I know how hard it is to be doing everything you know to do right, and they still go wandering off like idiotic zombies to cult figures and absolute garbage and bad advice.

Blame isn't the issue. Getting people to analyze their lives IS.

James Neff

Subject: Columbine


I really liked your article about the Columbine killings. I think it was right on target. I hate seeing things like this in the news. First there is the tragedy of the killings and then there is the tragedy of the news coverage of the killings. The overpaid pretty boys of the national media always miss the point by 180 degrees and thus assure that the killings will continue. I have gotten to the point where I cannot bear to listen to network news anymore. The false anguished "hand wringing" and moralizing while all the while they are supporting the very things that will continue tragedy after tragedy after tragedy. It makes me sick. Michael

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:00:14 -0600 From: mumbob

MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subject: Come Home 4-23- 99


Much of what you wrote struck a deep chord with me. I know what your talking about. >From 1969 through 1971, in junitor high and high school, I was made to feel lower than dirt by jocks. Thirty years later, my scars are still evident. Now forty-five, I hope it was not the defining moment of my life, but given my track record since high school (drug dependence and drifting from one intermittent job to the next), I have my doubts. Even today, thinking about those experiences makes my stomach churn and my blood boil. Rationally, there is nothing I can do about what happenned to me then. Emotionally, not a month goes by without myself drifing back to those days. When I heard of the shooting at Littleton and of the possible motivations of the two boys involved, my reaction was not one of blanket condemnation. I wondered if they were psychically frozen, immobilized, made to feel the awkwardness of adolescence a thousand times more than they should of through a daily ritual of intimidation, public humiliation, or worse. Like what's going in in Serbia, there's no excuse for the actions of those two kids. They killed people who had no idea of what they were going through. But just like I believe by it's actions NATO is making a bad situation far worse, so the 'system' set in place in Littleton and elsewhere in the US by administrators, teachers, and parents is taking kids who just want to belong or at least not be made into a group punching bag for 'socially acceptable kids' and through a blind awareness of their actions (or lack of) turning them into monsters. Thanks again for your Sightings postings. It made me feel I'm not alone. Bob

Subject: High School Shootings

Sorry to disagree with your viewpoint on these shootings but what we're seeing here in all of these high school shootings is a product of government mind control. Sounds outrageous I know, but our CIA has all the technology and is more than capable of it. There are many victims of mind control who are now speaking out and pleading with people to listen. If you want to know the motivation for such a program, look at the solutions being proposed. These shootings will not stop until the public is disarmed.

Check out this web site to clue yourself in. It's worse than you thought. Remember, if you are really interested in the truth, then you must be willing to admit that everything you now believe may be wrong...if you're really looking for the truth. Otherwise, you are just looking for confirmation of what you already believe. Big difference. Rick

Subject: Littleton Shootings

Just finished reading your viewpoint on what the hell really happened here. I have to agree with you, but not 100%. I would like to know where the parents of these kids were-were they so blind they couldn't see the signs? Or did they not give a damn about what their children were going through? I also blame the teachers and the so-called authority figures in these youths' lives. Aren't these the very people who are supposed to watch out for and properly educate our children? Are people so afraid to intervien, to lend a hand, a shoulder, a refuge? When I was in school, I was also tormented. However, I was lucky enough to have a couple of teachers to guide me, to encourage me, to tell my tormentors how wrong they were for doing what they were doing. I have taught my own children to fight back-but to fight back responsibly. I have on the other hand taught them that life is just too damn short to waste they're time and energy on members of our great society that are walking through this life with blinders on. My children have been taught that individuality is ok, there is nothing wrong with expressing themselves, and to ignore the stupidity that rules everyone elses lives. They're father does not agree, and constantly challenges their decisions and veiwpoints-one of the many reasons we got divorced. I refuse to live my life trying to conform, to make society happy with me in order to be accepted. I would rather die than be forced to live the same hatered these people create. My children are ridiculed often for accepting and befriending the outcasts in our town. They are not angry with their tormentors, only sad for them. Sad that they obviously come from angry, hatefilled homes. Sad that these same kids are only acting out what they have been raised-sad that they will probably never be happy in their lives-they will only live under the illusion of happiness. I have raised my children with love and respect and acceptance. It hasn't been hard, I don't consider it a chore to do so. Why is it so hard for society as a whole to do the same? thank you, Lisa

Subject: WELL SAID, My Brother!!!

Very well said, I'm going to be 49 this year, and while there may be no visible scars, the effects of the soul murdering from all those years before continues -- Now, after 12 years clean and sober, a few thousand AA meetings and as many years of heavy duty group therapy, psychodrama, individual counseling , and occasional retreats, I am at long last beginning to find out what it feels like to be comfortable in my own skin -- But as HELLACIOUS as it's been, I would never trade away the pain, loneliness and terrible despair in order to be a self satisfied comfy member of the National Herd. I don't ever want to forget any of that stuff -- I want to continue learning how to live with it -- and to continue learning how to pass on to others whoWANT it, a little of the incredible hope, and strange inner peace that CAN be the priceless reward for surviving being adrift for 37 years on the spiritually barren open seas of this poor crazed culture of ours. May we look back but not stare -- one day at a time...........................

God Bless you Neff, and God Bless every single last one of us, Bill

Subject: Shootings


I read you letter on the shooting. Well done. Your talents are endless. The truth will one day be known to all. There is order behind all the chaos.


Subject: Littleton web page article

Your article echoed many of my feelings, very well written, well thought out. High school for me was also about 20 years ago and I hated every minute of it,for many of the reasons you stated. In my own way, I rebelled against the 'programming' and still do, the best I can. I am trying to show my kids that even the news is not THE TRUTH. And when I do hear 'news' on national media, I try to descern between what is really true and the progammed national 'spin' that they want to brainwash us into. Like you, I certainly can't condone what the students in Littleton did, but I CAN understand why. I also wasn't all that suprised by the incident in Littleton. Thanks for writing & posting the article. It was one of the best pieces I've read in along time. Dan

Subject: On your letter about the suicide of the gifted

I enjoyed this letter very much. I think a lot of us do relate to this and just wanted to you to know. Thanks Dana

Subject: The War on Individuality

I am deeply moved by your article mentioned above. I am writing from New Zealand, small country, but I am certain we also are advancing towards the big nations' examples. I hope many will turn the clock back and reconsider where all this faked "progress" is taking us. I am trying hard to remain out of the "normal", today it is the "abnormal" who has the answers! Best wishes Elsa

-- Andy (, April 26, 1999.

Once the first school shooting happened the taboo was broken. The four minute mile, so to speak, had been conquered and others could now see that it is a very do-able proposition. The seed was planted in unstable minds.

My first thought when I saw what was happening that day?

"I guess the jocks picked on the wrong 'losers' this time."


-- Mr Deedah (, April 26, 1999.

Your analysis of the shootings reveals something that I think is the real cause, but not what you intentionally had in mind.

Your answer to this is to say that man does not hate himself enough. Basically, you think that the pursuit of happiness is evil. That we should humble ourselves to some mystical supernatural creator and that will solve all our problems.

Well, ironically these kinds of shootings are the result of a culture that teaches kids to give up their life before its even started. They are taught egalitarianism, altruism, volunteerism and sacrifice. Is it any suprise that kids raised in this kind of environment don't occasionally snap?

We teach kids that if they lack something it is not their fault. We remove winning from soccer games to avoid hurting the feeling of kids that have not played sports as well. This leads to mutual hatred between those that are able and those that are less able.

The real cause is a culture that hates happiness and success.

-- Ken Stauffer (, April 26, 1999.

Just thought I'd post a drawing I did when I was 18. :) I think it's relevant, at least to that article. I remember being one of those outsiders.

Sorry about the nudity... it isn't meant to be erotic.

-- Blue (, April 26, 1999.


Poppycock! "The real cause is a culture that hates happiness and success."

Happiness and success (pick your def.) is the result of the system we live under. Did you ever hear of a 5y? It's a system to define roots of problems. You will find capitolism/greed at the root of this one. Try it.

We got the Y2K issue, war with iraq, war with serbia, russia in bed with china, russia supplying oil to iraq and serbia, russia arming greece, china arming korea, middle east hating isreal, us arming isreal, turkey, and taiwan, (and anyone who will allow trade in their country). we got 2500 pipe bombs a yr is us, we got masacre's by the pop. and the gov. we got the left against the right, and extremist against everyone else. nato on the attack and 00 approaching. I understand waco, mcveigh, columbine and marylyn. do you?

divide and conquer

-- R. Wright (, April 26, 1999.

It must be a rare (and shallow) soul who can traverse the minefield of childhood and adolecense without experiencing or inflicting the slings and daggers that can only be launched by those young enough to be unrestrained by the veneer of civility that rules "grown ups". Yet, I do not believe that this caste "System" of popularity was anything more than a trigger to those young assasins. Do you blame the "System" for Ted Bundy? He was known as an extremely likeable person, particularly by a co-worker at the Suicide Hotline/Prevention place he once worked at. This also defies the rationale and logic of the contributor who felt that teachers and parents should have noticed and done something about it. What of the parents who have been murdered by their own children? Do you believe that they clearly "saw" what was coming? I don't think so. As to the dubious skeptic who mocks the idea of a Creator, do you wish us to receive soberly (without laughing) your alternative idea of the spontaneous evolution of some amoebic life form out of organic slime? (Study the Second Law of Thermodynamics and think again) Or perhaps he prefers the idea that we were seeded by aliens? (In that case, who seeded them?) The One who came and spoke Truth, paying for it with His life, gave us the answer to this tragedy. Jesus said, "Love your neighbor as yourself" The System that wounds, tears and scars the fabric of our souls is the same that broke the heart of God when He turned Adam and Eve away from Eden to save their lives. It is sin. God is Love, but He is Holy and Just. When Lucifer repeated "I will be like the Most High" with his heart filled and darkened with pride, when the same fallen angel of light told Eve, "Surely you will not die, ...your eyes will be opened, and you will be as God..", and when Man the creature first spurned his Creator, then this system of sin began to reap its holocaust of pain on the souls of humanity. Did desensitizing hours of viewed violence, hours of dark music, self- absorbed parents, and a public school system that dumbs down its students while teaching them to elevate Self, eliminate God, swallow and regurgitate propaganda while simulataneously stifling any sparks of analytical or critical thinking play a part? Most certainly it must have, and I would not eliminate the darker possibilities of manipulation by powerful beings, be they human or otherwise. What we are reaping is the fruit of sin..."but sin, when it has conceived, bringeth forth death." (James 1:15) Read I Corinthians 13 and then find the Author of Love. And remember that the chosen victims of the Columbine gunmen were also chosen not because they had personally hurt and mocked these young men, but because they represented the Lord of love. Darkness always must hate the Light. Seek Truth while it is yet to be found. Wise men still seek Him.

-- Mumsie (, April 26, 1999.

R. Wright, Mr. Deedah, you got it. I can't tell you how many stories I've heard since this incident, where adults have said, " I've felt like those guys did." And it wasn't because they were unloved at home either. I know a girl's mother who grieved over her daughter being a target of ridicule; the girl had a slight speech impediment. When she tried to talk to the school administrators she said, "I was patted on the head and told not to worry, this is just kids being kids." It's that kind of attitude that makes education a joke.

I don't think sermons about sin have anything to do with this issue either. In fact, I attended church the whole time I was in school, and I got so tired of listening to what sinners we were. Add that to the fact that the members of the youth choir, youth fellowship groups and youth prayer groups were the biggest snobs, tormenters and jocks in school, and you might begin to understand my hatred of religion and everything it stands for.

I didn't have any problem in school, but if I had obeyed my true nature and stood up for the outcasts, the "fatsoes" and the disenfranchised, I too would been the object of ridicule. The one time I just walked away from a teasing incident, I was turned on by my darling group of "nice girls."

One guy who was the object of ridicule, not a jock, went on to become a successful biologist. Many years later, while waiting for a plane in Chicago I ran into him, the first time I'd seen him since school. We were on the same flight and had a great visit. After leaving the plane, he said, "You know, except for science class, I hated school, I hated jocks and sports, but I always remembered how Mr. C, the science teacher encouraged me, and how you were always friendly to me."

-- gilda (, April 26, 1999.

When my wifes son hung himself in a cemetary in Oakland, CA, he left a note..."This government sucks." Mumsie, perhaps Systematic Sin could be the problem you are talking about. The System is a slave system and it destroys lives. Wifes son was an extremely talented artist, but what I saw of his drawings reflected a tormented man trying to get FREE!

His Grandmother claims that her generation was "the perfect working generation". I rather think they were more like the perfect slave generation. Ever wonder why the Hippie movement was destroyed? They said, "Lets have peace, love and the hell with the System." System said "No Way. We need you to be part of the System"...Yuppies were created.


-- Mark Hillyard (, April 26, 1999.

I was amused by Neff's facile essay, drawing textbook divisions between the 'normal' and the 'alienated,' and then decrying the paucity of bombs dropped on Kosovo! As if bombs were the path to peace. As if a shotgun blast to a girl's face buys 'peace.' There are other ways to contest the weltanshaaung of Big Money/Big Conformity without becoming the Sex Pistol's 'antichrist.' Jesus was far more revolutionary than any bomb-slinger: he called for men to view the world with contempt, to look to heaven, and to trust God. What can be more subversive to a materialist world view (whether capitalist or communist) than ignoring the false promises of materialism? Of trusting in an unseen God? Of not fearing death, the materialist's ultimate bugaboo? Stay small, stay humble, seek the narrow path. Pray.

-- Spidey (, April 26, 1999.

As soon as you're born they make you feel small, By giving you no time instead of at all, Until the pain is so big you feel nothing at all, A working class hero is something to be.

Well they hurt you at home and they hit you at school, They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool, 'Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules, A working class hero is something to be.

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years, Then they expect you to pick a career, When you can't really function you're so full of fear, A working class hero is something to be.

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV, And you think you're so clever and classless and free, But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see, A working class hero is something to be.

There's room at the top they are telling you still, But first you must learn to smile as you kill, If you want to be like the folks on the hill, A working class hero is something to be. Yes a working class hero is something to be!

If you want to be a hero then just follow me. If you want to be a hero then just follow me.

-- John Lennon (killed@byanother.outcast), April 26, 1999.

Well I consider the church, religion and God just another form of slavery. I don't fear death one little bit either. Talk about outcasts, it took a long time for me to get up the courage to say openly that I don't buy the Christian religion dogma, and when I did, I knew the meaning of outcast firsthand. I understand how those kids feel, but I have no urge to kill anyone, or anything.

If religion makes a person feel safe, or holy, or part of the correct crowd, or the in crowd, or redeemed, or whatever pleases him, that's fine. But please don't assume that because I choose not to participate in that judgemental, narrow trap, that I cannot be a decent, loving, contributing person, trying to make the earth a better place for us and all our grandchildren.

Spidey you say Jesus was far more revolutionary, for "What can be more subversive to a materialistic world view than ignoring the false promise of materialism? Of trusting an unseen God?" Some of us were never taken in totally by materialism in the first place. And as far as "viewing the world with contempt," I think that is part of the problem. Christians are so busy looking to heaven, and discounting this earthly paradise, and praying for their immortal souls, that they consider the earth and it's creatures and the environement just useful commodities for their use until they get to the heavenly world to meet with their godly friends. Of course all we sinners will be safely tucked away in hell. Well I didn't buy that scenario when I was a kid, and I sure as hell don't buy it now. I do believe that Jesus lived. I do believe he was a good man in a barbaric time. But I don't believe he was any more of a savior than my cat.

And as far as killing goes; don't make me laugh. The Bible portrays more ways of killing and destroying men, women, children, families animals, crops, towns and entire civilizations than all the enemies of James Bond rolled into one. If the Bible were produced as a video, just as it is written in each chapter and verse, people would be howling in the streets to have it banned.

I know this will bring down the wrath of all the good Christians on this forum. I know I been a thorn in the flesh of the conservative Christians on this board since day one, so flame away. I've been planning on leaving anyway. It's time to begin gardening and that's much more time consuing, but satisfying than this forum. Old Git has supplied me with lots of good gardening tips, and there are some of you I've really enjoyed knowing; you know who you are. But as Hallyx said in an old post, "I have become too benumbed by ridicule and disappointment to continue with the intellectual and philosophical commitment that gilda still has." Well gilda's worn out with the preaching and laying on of guilt too. In fact the social structure of this forum sometimes reminds me of Columbine HS. Ciao.

-- gilda (, April 26, 1999.

I blame the kids' parents. Period.

-- Average Joe (avgjoe@anywhere.usa), April 26, 1999.

We give them good quality time and love and guess what, they won't turn to ugliness for their self worth and acceptance. The kids would then put Hollywood, the media, the video game manufacturers, the drug dealers and the suicidal/homocidal music out of business as "they" (the kids) would have no need for these means of acceptance. This would demand change on our parts though....ouch, that hurts. "Do as I say, not as I do" does not work. Our actions speak louder than any of our words ever will. It starts with us as individuals....are you willing to make the changes in your life that that demands ??

-- Andrew (, April 28, 1999.

Hi Gilda and others... Please allow me to clariy my previous posting. I chose not to go into details then of the peer persecution that I suffered while growing up in the traditional school system. Like...going through seven months of the fifth grade isolated from all the other girls who were allied/intimidated by the popular bully from speaking to me. (One other girl was included in my elite outcast club...her crime? a mentally retarded sister) My crime? Higher academics than the bully, which would have qualified me to be chosen as patrol captain the next year. (Of course, I was disqualified by the teacher because she said I "had too much trouble getting along with others") Or how about starting seventh grade with another moronic popular bully collecting signatures from total strangers to join an "I Hate Jane Doe" (substitute my name) Club. My crime? I previously declined an offer to be her "best friend". By Junior High, I began to learn the rules of the game, and spent the next few years prostituting my soul. By High School, I was entrenched as one of the elite and popular, but thoroughly disgusted with them and myself. I broke ranks and went on to endure the worst persecution of all while attending a private Christian college. I was accused of being demon possessed, a lesbian, weird, and who knows what behind my back. My crimes? I wore funky clothes from the Salvation army, was asked out by a popular senior, and enjoyed arm in arm walks around campus with my delightful kindred spirit roommate. I don't blame Jesus for how I was treated by people who claimed to represent Him. He was more villified and betrayed than I will ever be. I know that He not only understood my pain, but abhorred the cause of it. Of course Jesus was radical, so radical that He had to be killed by the religious popular elite. Never confuse religious people with those He Himself will recognize as serving Him. The kind of love that made Him willing to die for others is radical. Forgiveness is radical. I don't define Sin in some legalistic nit-picking way, but as the absence of Love. It is the state of prideful self-centered absorbtion that causes us to elevate Self above all others, above what is right and good, and above all wisdom. If you read I Corinthians 13, you will know it says that "Love is patient and kind...Love is not envious, not boastful, not rude.."etc. What motivated those young gunmen? They were full of the absence of Love. Do you think naming it Sin is simplistic? Blaming peer persecution, their parents, or those who are motivated by greed and profit to churn out violent and filthy trash for souls to feed on, also seems somewhat simplistic. They are all pieces of the puzzle, so to speak. What motivates children to mock, tease and leave gaping holes of insecurities on another child? What motivates a parent to be self-absorbed and/or negligent? What motivates purveyors of cesspool "entertainment"? Is it not the absence of Love, is it not Sin?

-- Mumsie (, April 28, 1999.

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