Y2K And Nuclear War?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I think this may be of general interest ...

I'm a computer scientist by training and historically somewhat of a y2k skeptic. However, I'm reconsidering my position. Why? See below.

I was in Moscow last week, meeting with two of our partners (doing contract software work). They have lots of contacts with various utilities and agencies in the Moscow and Tver region, so I got a chance to really see a broad range of Russian software systems, as well as get a sense of overall work in progress.

Let me tell you: you have no idea how bad it is in Russia. Take what you've heard and multiply in by 10. Banks are closed, money is worthless, factories are shut down, people are unemployed, crimials run amok while the good people suffer. It's a testimony to the Russian people that they somehow survive, they're a resilient lot. I think most Americans would have given up in similar situation. We've got it so soft and easy over here I sometimes fear it's gone to our heads.

Anyway, here is the scary thing. Russia is heading towards an absolute y2k meltdown. I'm convinced of this. I saw their systems. They're antique, both standalone and embedded. Exactly the systems that have the most y2k problems. And - nothing is being done about y2k! Nothing! It's not simple denial (although they've got plenty of that), it's simple defeatism. No one cares, no one takes responsibility. They're too busy trying to keep the lights on right now to worry about Jan 1. I found the whole thing incredible, but I am not overstating the case. The Russians are doing zip.

So what? you might ask. Well, remember Russia is "Bangladesh with nuclear missiles". Thank God Bush and Clinton negotiated some nuclear arms reductions, but the fact is still 8000 warheads are pointing right at us (forget about the "detargeting" prograganda - missiles can be automatically set back to original targets in seconds). I got a chance to talk with two former Red Army men (one on retirement, one retired but working for Tver nuclear agency). The systems I saw commercially, they told me, reflect what you find in Russian nuclear weapons and command-and-control. According to them, it is simply not the case that the military systems are of higher grade. (They have things like shock, EMP and overall hardening, but it is still the same type of equipment). Worse, they tell me the situation in the military is even worse than in the civilian sector. Even in the SRF (Strategic Rocket Forces - the Russian elite), morale is low, enlisted men are going hungry, and they certainly aren't fixing y2k problems. Both of these men - a major and a colonel - are expecting something "disastrous, if not catastrophic" to happen. Exact quote.

The Russian military system is completely rotted out, but so far has remained standing. Y2K will be the event that pushes it over the edge. After seeing their systems and talking with the Russians, I came away convinced that this is *the* issue that might actually make the y2k doomsday scenarios a possibility. (A single 1-megaton hit on any major US city would forever alter this country).

To be clear, I don't for a minute think the Russians would attack the US. What I'm worried about is a technical failure with unforseeable side-effects, aggravated by an overall command system that has completely broken down.

In some ways I feel like the Russians. Just bury my head in the sand and hope for the best. But I know this isn't right. So I'm making some rather dramatic personal plans.

Well, this is what I learned. Best to you all.

-- Christopher Talekov (ctalekov@noemailplease.com), April 25, 1999


As an ex-military man and longtime watcher of the Soviet/Russian arsenal, I completely agree with you.

But remember, it's not just the Russians. The Chinese have us targetted too, albeit with far fewer weapons. How good are their computer systems? Don't forget India and Pakistan either. Isn't it great, this nuclear world we live in?

I also agree that the Russians would never attack the US given their current state. They can't fight themselves out of a paper bag right now, and won't for many decades to come. But a technical failure, or some madman getting control, is a real possibility. That's the danger. Then watch out.

Just a question of time before one of these weapons goes off. Y2K might be the spark.

-- Jason Pauling (jasonp3@aol.com), April 25, 1999.

I have a few indirect sources in the commercial sector which are in total agreement with you. Their business systems tend to be circa 1975-1980 clones/pirated, hardware-software with lots of Y2K problems. I hope the US can get some serious cooperation at the top because I think their military defense systems will simply collapse. I'm particularly worried about their submarine ballistic missiles that operate in a more autonomous mode than ours.

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), April 25, 1999.

Here's some cheery news I just ran across.. Russia's nuclear forces will be kept on the "highest level" of combat readiness because of the Nato air strikes, Russian Defence Minister Igor Sergeyev warned yesterday. He said this meant a change in the Kremlin's military doctrine but did not elaborate. A top Moscow military official, Valery Manilov, said Russia may begin supplying weapons to Yugoslavia if Nato sends ground troops into combat. President Boris Yeltsin's special envoy to Yugoslavia, ex-premier Viktor Chernomyrdin, spent more than five hours in talks with Slobodan Milosevic in Belgrade yesterday. End snip... Nothing like bumping the old defcon level up to absolute hair trigger during Y2K meltdown and solar cycle max to weed out the wimps huh?

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 25, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

And what was clinton's response to the news that Russia was going to full alert on their Nuclear weapons? I swear this is a legit story, what a moron. President, nuclear launch codes separated briefly

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Clinton departed the NATO summit in such haste Saturday that he left behind perhaps the most important piece of luggage in the world - the ``nuclear football.'' The president's military aide, who constantly shadows Clinton and carries the briefcase containing U.S. nuclear launch codes, was mistakenly left at the International Trade Center when Clinton's motorcade sped off 45 minutes early and without notice.

The aide walked the 4 1/2 blocks back to the White House without incident. ``We're safe,'' said White House press secretary Joe Lockhart. He said Clinton left so quickly because his last summit meeting of the day broke up early and ``rather than wait for everyone to gather, he just took off.''

The pool of reporters that always travels with Clinton also was left behind.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 25, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. This son-of-a-bitch is TRYING to get us nuked. This NATO summit has no doubt the highest visibility for terrorist of any event in the recent past or future. Soviet and Serbian operatives are no doubt watching this like hawks. One cell phone call from an observent agent and the United States would have ceased to exist yesterday. the man is laughing in the face of Soviet and Chinese explicit nuclear threats. These Russians have nothing but pride left to lose, and they are a proud people. If someone doesn't get this jerk out of office soon there will be no New president in 2000. There will be no United States in 2000.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 25, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Looks like the Russian-Nato confrontation is about to heat up. Russia to ignore Nato embargo Russia looks set on a collision course with Nato after saying it will ignore calls by the alliance for an oil embargo against Yugoslavia. The alliance is drawing up plans to "visit and search" ships to try to prevent oil, arms and other vital supplies reaching the Serbian armed forces via ports in Montenegro.

US President Bill Clinton defended the sea searches, saying it was unreasonable to ask pilots to risk their lives attacking oil depots when Serbia could get fuel from ships.

But Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov said that his country would ignore Nato's calls to prevent oil getting through and would continue supplying President Slobodan Milosevic's government with fuel.

"We cannot do anything to worsen the suffering of the people in Yugoslavia, and we will continue delivering oil in keeping with our international commitments," Mr Ivanov said.

Russian special envoy Viktor Chernomyrdin, who returned from Belgrade with a fresh peace offer on Thursday, backed up Mr Ivanov.

"The blockade (idea) is bad. The strikes are bad. When people die, it's bad."

BBC Moscow Correspondent Robert Parsons says if the alliance decides to impose a sea blockade, it will have to decide whether to board Russian ships - risking sucking Russia into the conflict.

'Visit and search'

However Nato reiterated its resolve on Saturday to "switch off the oil tap completely" to Yugoslavia.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 25, 1999.

Just when we think it can't get any worse ...
What, us worry? Do ya'll want to come to Cascadia for a "Hey we don't have to face old age" party?

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 25, 1999.

Well, I just hope our little adventure in Serbia ends soon. I don't like the idea of y2k and a "military action" taking place simultaneously. Don't want to load the dice too much.

Yeh, the russian submarines are particularly dangerous at y2k. Fortunately, they can only keep 2 at sea nowadays. Unfortunately, all it takes is 1 to do us in.

As to the Clinton/Nuke story. I believe the story, but give us a break with the Clinton-bashing. Some people are just a little too fixated on him, I think the failed impeachment sent them over the edge. I don't like him either, but we do get tired of these endless conspiracy theories, like that idiot who claimed Clinto was spreading smallpox. Get a grip.

-- parson (bparson21@aol.com), April 25, 1999.

Mr. Parson, I too get tired of endless conspiracy theories but the fact remains that a large percentage of them turn out to be true. If we had a free and open media which did its job objectively and reported both sides of the issues, and an honest and open government uncorrupted by foreign and domestic mega bucks perhaps these theories could be put to rest once and for all. Bill Clinton is a member of the Trilateral commission, the Bildenbergers, and the council on foreign relations. He is also a Rhodes alumni and bound under oath to support the English aristocracy long before he took oath to support and defend the constitution of the United States. The same Constitution he is on record as saying is outdated and antiquated. The same Constitution he routinely violates through executive orders and unilaterally declared wars. It is a fact that Bill Clinton is a Socialist, and actively works through the Socialist organizations mentioned above to promote the eventual demise of all national soverignity and the institution of One World Government under the leadership of the Old World Elite who control the Internatioinal Banks and the Federal Reserve. These institutions and their charter members no longer make any swcret of their agendsa, you can follow the speeches they give and the statements they make quite easily through c-span and the international news services. This is not a conspiracy theory, ity is plain self admitted fact. If at this late date you are still unaware of ewhat is going on it is no ones fault but your own, as you obviously have access to a computer and have the ability to access the information. I suspect that like many others in this nation you have to much comfort invested in the status quo as it exist, and either consciously or unconsciously turn a blind eye to anything which threatens that happy little world. However fragile it may turn out to be. Now I could sit here and post quotes from Clinton, David Rockefeller, Kissenger, Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher, Madeline Allbright, George Bush, Ronald Reagan, Miteron, and a couple of hundred others all night to verify what I have said, as I have already done on previous threads. But my challenge to you is to take some responsibility for you own education and destiny. If the majority of individual Americans cannot be motivated to seek the truth, really to demand the truth, this nation is finished and all we are doing is a premature autopsy.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 25, 1999.

Russia, Y2k, WW1, WW2. I don't usually believe in good or bad luck. BUT, what the heck is happening here ? We are about to face the Y2k problem at the same time as the possible start of WW3 ? How bad can our luck be ? The world is in a WORLD of HURT as we approach the end of this year. Christians need to pray that God will show us His plan for this mess we have created. We don't need the Y2k problems but we sure as heck don't need WW3 and nukes. We need comfort and assurances that this stuff isn't going to be real bad. Anybody out there got some REAL good news ?

-- reed moore (reed_moore@postmaster.co.uk), April 25, 1999.

Here is the good news: Isa. 8:12-14 Isa. 26:20 Nahum 1:7 Psalm 91 & 46 Rev. 19-21

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), April 25, 1999.

Thanks Christopher, for your initial posting.

This confirms what everybody I know who is 'in the know' has said, as well as what even Bennett's group have said.

My worry has been that if Y2K brings an already bad situation to a standstill in Russia, China, and many other places, and if it's clear (as it already is to some degree) that the USA is in vastly better shape and will be hit less hard and recover sooner, that Russia and/or China - or even one or two people with the clearance in those areas -- will decide that either:

(a) We need to be taken down because we will certainly control the world when this is all said and done, and our recent actions make that obvious, so to some degree, nuking us would be an offence-as-defense tactice;


(b) When what they need most is FOOD and no matter how bad off we are, we'll still have more food than any country on the planet, a nuke that worked could be a good incentive -- especially since the USA has *no* strategic missile defense system -- for a threat (give us food or else).

What's ironic is I used to be really concerned about Y2K here, in my neighborhood, in this country. Now I am so busy being concerned about WWIII -- the follow-on effects of Y2K or those we simply begin because I think our president is working for someone who wants to kill us -- that I'm actually getting optimistic about Y2K's "simple" effects.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 25, 1999.


As usual - right on the money. It is really no coincidence that all of this is coming to a head at this point in time, they have made no bones about this, the fact that 2000 is to be the year of the big push once and for all. All the cards are being played now, in the highest of stakes game we will ever be party to.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 25, 1999.

Clinton Walks Off And Leaves 'Nuclear Button' Briefcase In Hallway...


WASHINGTON (AFP) - A harried NATO host President Clinton left behind the critical briefcase carrying the nuclear bomb code at the summit meeting hall Saturday in his haste to greet allied leaders at a White House dinner.

The aide who carries the briefcase containing all that is necessary to launch a U.S. nuclear strike had to walk the four city blocks back to the White House from the Reagan building where the summit was held after Clinton's motorcade left without him, White House officials said.

"Speaking from experience, these things happen," said spokesman Joe Lockhart, who himself missed the presidential plane from Northern Ireland to Moscow last year.

Aides were quick to try to dismiss the incident, which they claimed has happened under past presidents hurrying to pressing events.

"It was just momentary," said spokesman Mike Hammer, who explained that Clinton always has an aide with the nuclear codes close by and that the requirement that he was within "the time frame factor was not an issue."

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 25, 1999.

NATO Looking At Showdown With Russia Over Sea Blockade


WASHINGTON, April 24 (AFP) - NATO faced a test of wills Saturday with Russia over a proposed naval blockade of oil shipments to Yugoslavia, which France warned could lead to "an act of war."

As NATO commanders worked up an operational plan for interdicting oil shipments at sea, Moscow warned it would continue to supply oil to Belgrade.

French President Jacques Chirac questioned whether there is a legal basis for a maritime blockade and warned of the dangers if oil tankers should resist NATO warships.

"As far as the right of inspection it is extremely sensitive because if (a ship) does not want to be inspected you have to seize it, and this in law is an act of war," he said at a news conference here. "We have said you have to be very careful," he added. Chirac said Friday an oil blockade on Serbia could be implemented more effectively by bombing road and rail links between Serbia and Montenegro.

US President Bill Clinton said "every reasonable means" had to be taken to ensure that NATO's campaign of air strikes and political and economic pressure succeeds. "So what we have done is we've asked our ministers of defense to come up with a plan that will apply in an even-handed way. Obviously, we don't expect it to and we will not do anything to try to see that it leads to violence. But we have to be firm about it," he said.

NATO defense ministers instructed General Wesley Clark, the NATO commander, to come up with an operational plan to enforce an oil embargo, including stopping and searching ships suspected of carrying oil to Yugoslavia.

The alliance's military authorities were considering "all possibilities," NATO Secretary General Javier Solana said, adding that the "unanimity is total" in favor of an oil blockade.

Russia's Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, however, said Moscow would continue to supply Belgrade with oil, implicitly raising a question about what NATO would do if confronted with Russian ships bearing oil to Montenegrin ports. "We will not do anything that could add to the suffering of the people of Yugoslavia and under our international commitments we will continue to provide oil," Ivanov told reporters late Friday.

The controversy over the naval blockade comes as the alliance is reaching out to the Russians to put more pressure on Belgrade to give in to NATO's demands on Kosovo.

Solana said NATO's contacts with Moscow will intensify in the coming days as the alliance attempts to work out a "common position" on Kosovo.

But former prime minister Viktor Chernomyrdin, Russia's special envoy on the Kosovo issue, denounced the plans for a blockade. "The blockade (idea) is bad. The strikes are bad. When people die, it's bad," he was quoted as saying by Russian news agencies. "This is why Russia is undertaking efforts to resolve the conflict peacefully."

Other members of the alliance besides France also expressed misgivings about a sea blockade.

Greek Foreign Minister George Papandreou worried about the impact on Greek shipping and on the Yugoslav republic of Montenegro, whose ports would be the target of blockade. "If we had a large blockade this would create a huge problem," he said here. "It would cut off Greece in its trade with Europe." "So we have asked to be very specific on what kind of an embargo this would be," he said. "This has to be in a very isolated area so it won't disrupt the whole trade region."

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 25, 1999.


Yesterday on another thread you mentioned something about the third secret of fatima on the Jeff Rense show archives - could you point me in the righ direction there?

I had heard that it related to Russia, WW III and Satanism in the Vatican :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 25, 1999.

Hi Andy, thanks for the backup. On the Fatima prophesies, I believe it was the show from the 19th of this month I was listening to when I caught that tidbit, could have been the 20th though. It was in the early part of the program, ie first hour. A little background here, working just from memory which is fallible. The lady who recieved the prophesies got them from an apparition of the Virgin Mary way back in the early 1900's. She was a young girl at the time. Mary instructed her to deliver the first and second prophesies to the people, but the third prophesy was to be sealed until the 1960's and revealed at that time by the Vatican. Several succesive Popes have refused to release the third and final prophesy, and it has been the subject of much speculation.

Rense said on his show that a high ranking Vatican official had verified this week that the third prophesy was that a nuclear third world war would devastate the planet before the rollover of the millenium, and the living would envy the dead. I do believe the lady who recieved the initial prophesies is still alive, though quite old, and is a nun in an Italian convent. She has declined on numerous occaisions to elaborate on the third prophesy, saying that decision should be left to the Pope. Now you know as much as I do, or do not, as the case may be. Like I said memory is fallible. ha ha

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 25, 1999.

Thanks Nikoli,

Fits in with what I've been hearing - I guess this is a whole new thread in and of itself!!!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 25, 1999.

Andy & Nikoli,

There is a prophecy in Daniel 7 that foretells that which is about to happen. It is widely assumed to have been fulfilled over 2,000 years ago, but a close examination of the prophecy, compared with Revelation 13, shows that it will take place at the time of the end (which is fast approaching).

This prophecy speaks of four beasts rising up from the sea (which is symbolic of the nations of the world). These beasts represent end-time power blocks.

Daniel 7:3 "And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man's heart was given to it. 5 And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: 'Arise, devour much flesh!'"

The first beast can be identified by the creatures it is composed of. The lion is the national symbol of England, while the eagle is the national symbol of America. The first beast represents the British/American led NATO forces, which are now at war in Yugoslavia. This "beast" will be humbled, with the eagle portion of it being destroyed ("wings plucked off"). The second beast will perform this "plucking."

The second beast is the Russian bear. Russia will destroy the wings of the first beast, which represent the USA, leaving the remainder of NATO (especially England) humbled and impotent. Russia will "devour much flesh" in their attack on the USA and NATO.

The third beast represents an Islamic confederacy of four nations, led by Iran. The national symbol of Iran is the leopard; in fact, the Iranian flag used the have a leopard on it. The fourth beast, which will be much different from the first three, will be the NWO global government. It will assimilate the other kingdoms and the rest of the nations of the world.

-- Daniel (beasts@daniel7.ot), April 26, 1999.

That's extremely interesting - then of course there is our old friend Nostradamus, and of course Mother Shipton...



By Michael J. Heicklen, Esq.

I'm not religious; nor am I a prophet, prognosticator, or philosopher. All of my training says, "be skeptical." That's why Nostradamus' pre-WWIII predictions can conservatively be labeled intriguing.

"All chronology concerning the Church

Shall change into a wrathful Sun Dial

Into the burning war after war

After that King of France shall carry out the restoration"

The modern clock rendered the Sun Dial obsolete. The only reason to return to it would be a crash of the contemporary time-keeping system. War after war is being waged against Y2K: The primary fix, "burning" new century dates into the p.c. and embedded systems ("into the burning war after war"). Most of Europe is lagging because of the Eurodollar conversion. However, France is especially slow - and will probably comply six months to a year after its neighbors. ("After that King of France shall carry out the restoration"). On July 1, 1997 Westergaard Year 2000 International Watch reported "France appears to be rather slow in responding to the Year 2000 Problem. Most industry insiders believe that the French are between a year and 18 months behind the US in terms of preparedness for the millennium The answer may lie not in France's technological savviness - which is high - but in its struggling economy"

"A horrible war the West shall prepare

One year following shall come the pestilence

So terrible that the young, old, nor beast shall avoid

Blood, fire, Chastisements, wars, men in France"

"A horrible war in the West shall prepare" The West is just getting up to speed on re-preparing its battle systems. BUSINESSTODAY.COM reported that The U.S. Defense Department recently received atrocious marks on three government Y2K evaluations: 1) Only 17 percent of its computers have been reprogrammed to recognize the year 2000. 2) The GAO reported that 120 of the Army's 376 mission-critical information and embedded weapons systems are still non-compliant. 3) As of February 1998, 12,120 (approx. two-thirds) of the Army's 19,731 non- critical systems were non-compliant. Canada has repaired just 31 percent of its defense systems, and England's military is only expected to be 80 percent compliant by 2000 (said David Longhurst, U.K.'s Ministry of Defense Year 2000 program manager).

Further, Y2K is the largest, most pervasive, potentially damaging glitch the world has ever faced. Unlike previous conflicts, where interruptions were regional, this problem will pummel every financial institution, delivery system, food source, military operation, and utility scheme in the world. No person or thing will go untouched. Most of the non-compliant technologies originate from the U.S., Canada and England. The manufacturers are in chronic panic prepping to beat the clock.

"One year following shall come the pestilence." It's now late 1998. There's no stopping time - Y2K will occur on 01/01/2000. Further, the American College Dictionary defines pestilence as: "A deadly epidemic diseaseThe bubonic plague." Words like carnage, bloodshed, and killing are allied with war. Pestilence means scourge or bug. While it's arguable that this line refers to chemical and biological warfare, it's unlikely. When read literally, the blight comes prior to any physical attack: "[the pestilence will be] So terrible that the young, old, nor beast shall avoidwars."

"The year 1999 and seven months

From the sky shall come the great king of terror"

Nostradamus names July, 1999 as the month some event will trigger international fright: "From the sky shall come the great king of terror." Interpretations of this language range from the sublime to the ridiculous. Grey aliens will land, or the devil will incarnate. Most likely, it refers to the U.S. navigation system (GPS), which is dependent on orbiting satellites. On August 21, 1999, just one month after Nostradamus' prediction, GPS will rollover to 0000. Receivers purchased in the past five (5) to ten (10) years are unlikely to be affected. However, reliant third world countries (both friend and bootlegger foe) plagued with obsolete equipment could go dark. GPS controls civil air transport, missiles, and early warning systems; its loss could provoke widespread panic.

"Cyberspace" will also be affected. The date 9/9/99 will cause glitches in numerous networked and integrated systems. Back in the 1980's, it was popular for programmers to place all "9"'s in a date field to indicate the end of a batch stream. For example: A computer runs through a list of critical military delivery dates. The program continues to run until it sees all 9's, which it reads it as . The program stops. If a war head is entered for transfer on 9/9/99, critical information listed in the stream after it could be lost, deleted, or corrupted. Other potentially invalid dates include 02/29/99, a non-existent leap year; 01/01/99, if used for some non- date purpose; and 12/16/99 if the program is working on fifteen (15) day forwarding. Results will vary depending on programming habits.

"All migrate, migrate from Geneva !

The Lord's Justice shall change your fortune"

"Migrate from Geneva" is a metaphor for "look after your money." Switzerland is the world's finance center, and Y2K will have a dramatic effect on international banking. Today, each bank's mainframe has several million lines of code. Since no quick fix exists, every entry must be hand checked. While the community has worked hard to remediate, it's too little, too late. Y2K programmers almost universally agree that some funds will be lost or improperly transferred, a few banks will fail, ATM's will be interrupted, and withdrawals will be slowed. On April 8, 1998, Reuters reported that "Financial regulators and executives at the International Banking Conference on Y2K in Basle, Switzerland reported that urgent preparations were underway to avert possible network failures when computers tick over to the year 2000a problem that could threaten global finance and lead to a worldwide recession." New York Federal Reserve president William McDonough said "An operational breakdown resulting from insufficient year 2000 preparations by any one of them may have an impact across payment systemsA worst-case scenario could threaten the entire financial system." If banks fail without underlying insurance, fortunes will be lost.

"The sudden death of a premier personnel [Russia]

Shall change and place another one in reign

Quickly, late in coming, reaching so high for so low in age

Whom through land and sea one shall have to fear"

Sixty-seven year old Yeltsin has heart trouble, and is in marginal health. His Prime Minister, Sergei V. Kiriyenko, is a 35-year-old ("reaching so high for so low an age") former bank and oil executive with just one year of political experience ("quickly, late in coming"). He was chosen after Yeltsin fired his Prime Minister and Cabinet on March 23, 1998. If Yeltsin dies, Kiriyenko succeeds to the Presidency under the Constitution ("The sudden death of the premier personnel shall change and place another one in reign.").

"USA and USSR shall not be friends long

After thirteen years one shall become an Iranian ally

Both sides shall suffer similar loss

And one shall pray for the Church and the pope"

Gorbachev became the President of Russia in1987. Thirteen years later brings us to Y2K; the same year the next Russian Presidential election is scheduled.

"After 13 years, one will become an Iranian ally." Last week, UPI and AP reported that Bill Clinton imposed trade sanctions against seven Russian companies for allegedly supplying missile technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea. On July 22, 1998, U.S. satellites detected an Iranian test launch of the Shehab-3. The missile can reach targets in Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey and portions of Russia. Iran later announced that the test was successful. While rumors abound that Kiriyenko's ex-employer, NORSI oil [Russia's third-largest refinery] was among the offenders, its name was noticeably absent from the U.S. hit list. Kiriyenko served as NORSI's President in 1996.

The pundits believe that Kiriyenko can't win the 2000 election. He's seen as Yeltsin's sidekick, and part of the corrupt reformist movement. Russia has 140 million citizens, of which 70 million are living below the poverty line. To make a play, Kiriyenko will have to find an investor willing to underwrite Russia's looming debt and rebuild its infrastructure. Several weeks ago, he had a meeting with private financiers; thus far, no money has changed hands. Iran has the economic and high tech (software / hardware) capability of bailing Russia out. Moreover, it has the motivation; Russia can help its nuclear proliferation effort. Kiriyenko's oil background exposed him to high-ranking government officials throughout the Middle East.

"In the great Empire [Russia] with everyone's existence hung in desperation

One over the others shall secure it

But little time shall last for his reign and existence

Two years the navy shall be rotten due to poor maintenance"

"But little time shall last for his reign and existence." There are only eighteen months until the millenium. It takes six to eight months, post-election, for the government to changeover. So, Nostradamus is predicting Kiriyenko will become President by November - December, 1998. Presumably, Iran will form an alliance with Russia, use Kiriyenko to stock its warheads, then renege on the promise to help the economy. In 2000, Kiriyenko will be ousted. But the betrayal won't be forgiven, and the U.S./Russian relationship will dissolve ("Both sides shall suffer similar loss.").

"Two years the navy shall be rotten due to poor maintenance." "Russia Today" (RT), an arm of the European Internet News Network, recently reported that Russia is so cash-poor it hasn't paid its troops in three months. According to RT, the military's computer infrastructure is decaying, the command / control system is in complete disarray, and nuclear forces are on top alert for fear that Y2K will force a malfunction in the early warning system; which could lead to impulsive retaliation.

"If the Russians go blank on Jan. 1, in the year 2000, they're going to be sitting right next to Americans who are looking at their systems and saying, 'Don't worry, you can look at ours,'" U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense John Hamre told RT. Russia has yet to accept the offer.

"Russia is extremely vulnerable to the Year 2000 problem and an accidental launch is possible," said Sergey Fradkov, a partner and chief technical officer for Wall Street software and database developer Unif/X. During Soviet reign, Fradkov was assigned to the satellite control service. "If the date is used somewhere to track an incoming missile and the date shifts to 0000000 for a brief moment, there is a division by zero--an extremely high value--that fools the system into thinking there is a high probability of an attack in progress. This error in calculation might cause the computer to identify the blip on the screen as a rocket."

Without a large cash influx, the military has no chance of mending its ills before 2000.

So far, it looks like the old man has a point.

Michael Heicklen is a regularly published Y2K / research attorney located in Los Angeles. He recently served as the Chief Conservative Strategist on the United States Supreme Court case US v. Bajakajian. The court adopted his reasoning, and for the first time in 220 years, ruled a forfeiture violative of the Eight Amendment Excessive Fines Clause. His articles have been seen in American Venture Magazine, Discmakers Magazine, The Daily Journal, National Restaurant News, and Greek-American Magazine. He recently guest wrote a chapter for Wall Street Guru David Stewart's upcoming book "Date Rape 2000." For more information on Y2K matters, contact Michael Heicklen at (818) 881- 9600; (818) 881-9100 (fax), mjh@pacificnet.net.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 26, 1999.

This rare collection of Mother Shipton's prophecies was sent to us by a NEXUS reader who told us that, thirty years ago, she painstakingly transcribed them and managed to smuggle them out of the Mitchell Library, Sydney (now the State Library of New South Wales). The originals were kept in a locked room, along with many other volumes of prophetic writings deemed unsuitable for viewing by the general public.

To our knowledge, this particular translation has never been made available to the public before appearing in NEXUS Magazine. While NEXUS published these transcriptions in an earlier issue (Vol.2, #3), we thought them worthy of repeating for the benefit of our newer readers, particularly in light of recent world events.

Mother Shipton reputedly was born Ursula Sontheil in 1488 in Norfolk, England, and died in 1561. She exhibited prophetic and psychic abilities from an early age. At 24, married to Toby Shipton, she eventually became known as Mother Shipton. Many of her visions came true within her own lifetime and in subsequent centuries. These rare verses from Mother Shipton seem to have prophetic indications for our times, but of course are open to interpretation.

And now a word, in uncouth rhyme

Of what whall be in future time

Then upside down the world shall be

And gold found at the root of tree

All England's sons that plough the land

Shall oft be seen with Book in hand

The poor shall now great wisdom know

Great houses stand in farflung vale

All covered o'er with snow and hail

A carriage without horse will go

Disaster fill the world with woe.

In London, Primrose Hill shall be

In centre hold a Bishop's See

Around the world men's thoughts will fly

Quick as the twinkling of an eye.

And water shall great wonders do

How strange. And yet it shall come true.

Through towering hills proud men shall ride

No horse or ass move by his side.

Beneath the water, men shall walk

Shall ride, shall sleep, shall even talk.

And in the air men shall be seen

In white and black and even green

A great man then, shall come and go

For prophecy declares it so.

In water, iron, then shall float

As easy as a wooden boat

Gold shall be seen in stream and stone

In land that is yet unknown.

And England shall admit a Jew

You think this strange, but it is true

The Jew that once ws held in scorn

Shall of a Christian then be born.

A house of glass shall come to pass

In England. But Alas, alas

A war will follow with the work

Where dwells the Pagan and the Turk

These states will lock in fiercest strife

And seek to take each others life.

When North shall thus divide the south

And Eagle build in Lions mouth

Then tax and blood and cruel war

Shall come to every humble door.

Three times shall lovely sunny France

Be led to play a bloody dance

Before the people shall be free

Three tyrant rulers shall she see.

Three rulers in succession be

Each springs from different dynasty.

Then when the fiercest strife is done

England and France shall be as one.

The British olive shall next then twine

In marriage with a german vine.

Men walk beneath and over streams

Fulfilled shall be their wondrous dreams.

For in those wondrous far off days

The women shall adopt a craze

To dress like men, and trousers wear

And to cut off their locks of hair

They'll ride astride with brazen brow

As witches do on broomstick now.

And roaring monsters with man atop

Does seem to eat the verdant crop

And men shall fly as birds do now

And give away the horse and plough.

There'll be a sign for all to see

Be sure that it will certain be.

Then love shall die and marriage cease

And nations wane as babes decrease

And wives shall fondle cats and dogs

And men live much the same as hogs.

In nineteen hundred and twenty six

Build houses light of straw and sticks.

For then shall mighty wars be planned

And fire and sword shall sweep the land.

When pictures seem alive with movements free

When boats like fishes swim beneath the sea,

When men like birds shall scour the sky

Then half the world, deep drenched in blood shall die.

For those who live the century through

In fear and trmbling this shall do.

Flee to the mountains and the dens

To bog and forest and wild fens.

For storms will rage and oceans roar

When Gabriel stands on sea and shore

And as he blows his wondrous horn

Old worlds die and new be born.

A fiery dragon will cross the sky

Six times before this earth shall die

Mankind will tremble and frightened be

for the sixth heralds in this prophecy.

For seven days and seven nights

Man will watch this awesome sight.

The tides will rise beyond their ken

To bite away the shores and then

The mountains will begin to roar

And earthquakes split the plain to shore.

And flooding waters, rushing in

Will flood the lands with such a din

That mankind cowers in muddy fen

And snarls about his fellow men.

He bares his teeth and fights and kills

And secrets food in secret hills

And ugly in his fear, he lies

To kill marauders, thieves and spies.

Man flees in terror from the floods

And kills, and rapes and lies in blood

And spilling blood by mankinds hands

Will stain and bitter many lands

And when the dragon's tail is gone,

Man forgets, and smiles, and carries on

To apply himself - too late, too late

For mankind has earned deserved fate.

His masked smile - his false grandeur,

Will serve the Gods their anger stir.

And they will send the Dragon back

To light the sky - his tail will crack

Upon the earth and rend the earth

And man shall flee, King, Lord, and serf.

But slowly they are routed out

To seek diminishing water spout

And men will die of thirst before

The oceans rise to mount the shore.

And lands will crack and rend anew

You think it strange. It will come true.

And in some far off distant land

Some men - oh such a tiny band

Will have to leave their solid mount

And span the earth, those few to count,

Who survives this (unreadable) and then

Begin the human race again.

But not on land already there

But on ocean beds, stark, dry and bare

Not every soul on Earth will die

As the Dragons tail goes sweeping by.

Not every land on earth will sink

But these will wallow in stench and stink

Of rotting bodies of beast and man

Of vegetation crisped on land.

But the land that rises from the sea

Will be dry and clean and soft and free

Of mankinds dirt and therefore be

The source of man's new dynasty.

And those that live will ever fear

The dragons tail for many year

But time erases memory

You think it strange. But it will be.

And before the race is built anew

A silver serpent comes to view

And spew out men of like unknown

To mingle with the earth now grown

Cold from its heat and these men can

Enlighten the minds of future man.

To intermingle and show them how

To live and love and thus endow

The children with the second sight.

A natural thing so that they might

Grow graceful, humble and when they do

The Golden Age will start anew.

The dragons tail is but a sign

For mankinds fall and man's decline.

And before this prophecy is done

I shall be burned at the stake, at one

My body singed and my soul set free

You think I utter blasphemy

You're wrong. These things have come to me

This prophecy will come to be.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

These verses were on the outer wrapping of the scrolls.

I know I go - I know I'm free

I know that this will come to be.

Secreted this - for this will be

Found by later dynasty

A dairy maid, a bonny lass

Shall kick this tone as she does pass

And five generations she shall breed

Before one male child does learn to read.

This is then held year by year

Till an iron monster trembling fear

eats parchment, words and quill and ink

And mankind is given time to think.

And only when this comes to be

Will mankind read this prophecy

But one mans sweets anothers bane

So I shall not have burned in vain.

Mother Shipton


---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

This section was kept apart from the other and it appears to have been written together yet was in a separate jar.

The signs will be there for all to read

When man shall do most heinous deed

Man will ruin kinder lives

By taking them as to their wives.

And murder foul and brutal deed

When man will only think of greed.

And man shall walk as if asleep

He does not look - he many not peep

And iron men the tail shall do

And iron cart and carriage too.

The kings shall false promise make

And talk just for talkings sake

And nations plan horrific war

The like as never seen before

And taxes rise and lively down

And nations wear perpetual frown.

Yet greater sign there be to see

As man nears latter century

Three sleeping mountains gather breath

And spew out mud, and ice and death.

And earthquakes swallow town and town,

In lands as yet to me unknown.

And christian one fights christian two

And nations sigh, yet nothing do

And yellow men great power gain

From mighty bear with whom they've lain.

These mighty tyrants will fail to do

They fail to split the world in two.

But from their acts a danger bred

An ague - leaving many dead.

And physics find no remedy

For this is worse than leprosy.

Oh many signs for all to see

The truth of this true prophecy.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 26, 1999.

This prophecy was written in 1922...

"The conveniences and comforts of humanity in general will be linked up by one mechanism, which will produce comforts and conveniences beyond human imagination. But the smallest mistake will bring the whole mechanism to a certain collapse. In this way the end of the world will be brought about."

Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan, 1922 (Sufi Prophet)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 26, 1999.

I've been giving this Kosovo situation, NATO, the U.N., and the NWO movement a lot of thought lately, and the theory I'm arriving at is not pretty at all. There is no rational reason why NATO would commit itself to a civil war in a soverign nation, including so-called ethnic cleansing. There are no clear cut good and bad guys in this war, both sides are guilty of atrocities, the Serbs only being greater because of their superior firepower to the KLA. In effect the removal of the civilian population from Kosovo is not ethnic cleansing, but pure military tactics by the Serbs. The Kla is fighting a guerilla war, much akin to the VC in vietnam. the only effective way to fight guerillas is to remove their support base and the civilian population in which they hide. Moreover there have been and continue to be much more extreme cases of all out genocide and ethnic persecution in the world community, some of them among NATO members. I have long held that Bill Clinton, and the NWO elite have forsaken any hope of introducing their one world government as long as the United States reamains a soverign superpower, and the strongest military force on the planet. On numerous threads I have pointed out the insane policy decisons and nuclear response protocals which guarntee the U.S. will be devastated in a nuclear war if it occurs. The only impediment to a Russian first strike against the United States is the preconcieved NATO response against an agressor nation, specifically the former Soviet Union, now known as Russia. Clinton's policies over the last eight years have in sum total actually invited an all out attack on this country, and I believe this attack on the former Yugoslavia is the final step in that process.

Consider if you will that the ultimate goal of this attack was not to help the Kosovos, but to fragment NATO while simuletaneously provoking a conflict with the Russians. Germany and Italy already are balking at just the bombing campaign, with the Germans actively seeking peace accords through Russia and trying to mend sino relations. The Italians are backpedaling rapidly as talk of ground troops and Naval blockades escalates, and will certasinly go into headlong retreat at the first sign of a confrontation with the Russians. A confrontation which is almost certain to occur over the oil embargo.

The greatest two warmongers in this operation are Tony Blair and Bill Clinton. Both are NWO lackeys and blair openly represents the major political and financial power base of the NWO. If Russia does challenge NATO over this situation the result is as predictable as the sunrise. NATO will fragment, leaving the United States and England to face the Russians alone. The English parliment will "panic" and throw Blair out of office, replacing him with a more moderate prime minister. A short shooting war between the U.S. and Russia will ensue, followed by an all out nuclear strike against the U.S. by the Russians as they are not able to scramble their mothballed Naval forces in a timely manner. Bill Clinton and the NWO will have suceeded in destroying the United States. If I were you I would pay close attention to any trips Clinton takes out of the country in late August or early September.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 26, 1999.


You and me both. None of this makes any sense until you start thinking outside of the box - your point about Clinton making an unplanned trip abroad for example was not lost on me - I am convinced that certain folks are "in the know" - perhaps we can at least make an effort to read the signs.


-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 26, 1999.

Nikoli -- who ARE you? Whew! You're really on a roll, here. You make a LOT of sense. Much moreso than Dan Blather and the corporate state "news" media.

And Andy -- you've been a busy guy, too. If that Mother Shipton prophecy, which others also predict, I gather, for the end of July -- I heard it was supposed to be a large meteor causing damage similar to that which wiped out the dinosaurs -- will I have a chance to convert to Catholicism from atheism as a thousand foot tidal wave engulfs me? (I'm only half kidding.)

-- A (A@AisA.com), April 26, 1999.


Go in peace my son, In Nominis.... :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 26, 1999.

I just reread Nikoli's post above...
"The aide walked the 4 1/2 blocks back to the White House without incident. ``We're safe,'' said White House press secretary Joe Lockhart..."

In WASHINGTON DC? I guess we're lucky that the aid wasn't mugged on the way back. Wouldn't that have been something, some crackhead (like ex-mayor Marion Berry (?)) trying to wrestle that briefcase away (or cutting the arm off to get it, assuming chained), then hot-footing it over to the Chinese or Russian embassy with it. Hee hee.

-- A (A@AisA.com), April 26, 1999.

Who else's travel plans should we be watching? No, not Bill Gates; he's just rich, and nouveau rich at that; not part of power elite.

Would Al Gore get the word?
Would Bill get Hillary out, or would he leave her to fry?
Who are some Pentagon generals to watch?
Janet Rhinohaunches? She's a faithful power elite lapdog (pardon methaphor mixing).
What Demopublican Senators/reps to watch? (Feinstein? Isn't she family by marriage to Hillary? Or is it Gore?)
Gingrich -- talked a big talk -- but same old b.s. in reality?
Supreme court justices -- Rehnquist?
Any brits here to post news of Blair's whereabouts? Others in England to watch?
Mayors of New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles...?

-- A (A@AisA.com), April 26, 1999.

bold off

-- A (A@AisA.com), April 26, 1999.

How could I have forgotten David Rockefeller, Margaret Thatcher, and George Bush? (Some more whose travel plans we might keep track of?)

Anyone know of a web site with "travel plan" info? Or one which would be interested in posting such, assuming it hadn't occurred to them before?

-- A (A@AisA.com), April 26, 1999.

--A, good point about watching the others. I really hadn't given it much thought, but I would say David Rockefeller for sure. Perhaps Ross Perot. Let me review my list of CFR and Trilateral comission members and I'll get back to you. I'm sure not all of them know what's going on, but there will certainly be a key group who do.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 26, 1999.


For rats leaving the ship, try the principal shareholders of the Federal Reserve.

The meteor possibility is intriguing. Imagine a large, fast-moving, uncataloged rogue comet/asteroid approaching Earth from behind the Sun such that we were unable to detect it until it had already crossed the solar system and glanced by the Sun on its way towards us? If, for example, this object were traveling at a leisurely 2000 miles/second, we would have only about two weeks warning to take our final bows before the curtain came down.

-- scififan (scififan@earth.orb), April 26, 1999.

Yeah, Nikoli -- those would be good lists, and give other categories of the ruling class to watch, e.g., owners, publishers and major editors of NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, etc., CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, etc.

Some of the conservative/patriot orgs publish such lists -- I've seen print copies, but have never looked on internet.

Anyone having an "in" with any of these orgs -- What would be needed would be an online course where people could be taught how to keep track of these "elite" (in their own minds). Different people could "adopt" one or more of the "elite" to keep track of. So each member of the "elite" would be tracked by one or more of us, with none of us having to try to track all. Then the results collated daily (?) on a web site/web page like maybe WorldNetDaily or FreeRepublic, whatever.

-- A (A@AisA.com), April 26, 1999.

Interesting reading Andy. Did anyone hear of the Russian's delivering the Greeks with missles over the wknd?

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@aol.com), April 26, 1999.

Oops, make that 13 HOURS!

It's kind of ironic. Instead of pulling together and pushing hard to settle Mars, here we sit, making all our little plans and schemes for world domination and killing each other. Meanwhile the crazy celestial ballet just keeps dancing away...

"The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to keep all its eggs in." Robert A. Heinlein

-- scififan (scififan@earth.orb), April 26, 1999.

Russian Missiles Arrive On Greek Island

ATHENS, Apr. 26, 1999 -- (Reuters) Russian anti-aircraft missiles have arrived on the Greek island of Crete after Turkey strongly objected to plans to install them in Cyprus, the Greek government said on Thursday.

The S-300 surface-to-air missiles were ordered from Russia by the Cypriot government in a bid to counter Turkish air superiority over the divided island.

Turkey reacted angrily to news of the order, threatening to use force to prevent the missiles arriving on Cyprus.

Cypriot President Glafcos Clerides reached an agreement with the Greek government earlier this year to install the missiles in Crete.

Clerides had come under pressure from Washington and the European Union to cancel the order, for fear that it might heighten tension between Greece and Turkey, which are both members of NATO.

The two countries have long been at loggerheads over Cyprus and territorial rights in the Aegean Sea.

The S-300s, with a range of 150 km (90 miles), would have been a significant boost to Cyprus' virtually non-existent air defenses.

Cyprus is now mulling the acquisition of a shorter range alternative. Representatives of Alenia, an Italian arms firm, are currently in Nicosia discussing the prospects of selling the Cypriots the ground- to-air Aspide missile, an Italian diplomat said.

The rocket has a range of 15 km (eight miles).

"They are here to see what possibilities there are for an agreement," a spokesman of the Italian embassy in Nicosia said.

Cypriot defense officials refused to comment.

Cyprus has been divided since 1974 when Turkey invaded the northern third after a short coup in Nicosia engineered by the military junta then ruling Greece. ( (c) 1999 Reuters)

I also heard from the Anti NATO rally in wash. over wknd that tactical nukes were used in Iraq. Makes me wonder if our tridents are offline or not.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@aol.com), April 26, 1999.

The planned middle east scenario has been put on hold temporarily as the warmongering is going so well in Yugoslavia - Cyprus/Greece/Turkey/Israel/Iran/Iraq will be Plan B.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 26, 1999.

To all the main contributors on this thread... I enjoyed reading this thread more than any for awhile now... provocative to serious thought, and some chuckles to boot. Thanks guys! Like the travel tracking idea. Be sure to post any follow-ups to that.

-- Mumsie (Lotsakids@home.com), April 26, 1999.

I've read many things from Nostradamus, but Mother Shipton is almost new to me. Also read conflicting accounts of the 3rd Fatima prediction. I have read that the 7th month as mentioned in Nostradamus does not refer to our July but rather to a different calendar which would make it September or November on our calendar. Anybody know anything about this ?

Timing is important, I really would like to get my vacation in before the nukes or whatever start ! (Only half kidding)

This sorta makes y2k preps irrelevant, doesn't it?

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), April 26, 1999.

Thanks Mumsie. Some of that prophesy was particularly bone chilling. I thought the one by Daniel with it's national symbolism was particularly telling, especially if you read the second part in Revalations. The four beast are striking a bargain amongst themselves prior to the apocolyptic war and the quote came from among them "A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny, and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine." If you put this in the context of a food for mercenary military action between two nations represented by the beast the ramifications become readily apparent. We have two communist nations supposedly in dire straits with reguard to food supplys, the Russians and the N. Koreans. The oil and the wine could easily be translated to Italy and France representing the wine, and the middle east representing the oil.

"and when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

And there went out another horse that was red ; and power was given to him that sat theron to take peace from the earth and that they should kill one another: And there was given unto him a great sword."

This last passage on the red horse preceeds the one of the balances and indicates this is one of the parties involved in the deal. The other party is the white horse. "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him; and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." I see this white horse as representing NATO but confused a little by the terminology of the red horse. "and there was given unto him a great sword." This at first glance would seem to indicate China, with the nuclear and missile technologies which have been given to them in recent years. Stopping to think about it for a moment though there is another way to make a sword great. The primary defense against a sword is a shield, and any weakening or lowering of the shield would greatly increase the power of the sword. Of course the red horse could represent the combined communist forces of China, Russia, and N. Korea also.

At any rate the outcome of the deal is clear. "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him." So begins the end.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 26, 1999.

Sue, I don't think Y2K preps are irrelevant at all. While none of us knows what the impact of Y2K will eventually be, we do know something will happen. This nuclear scenario on the other hand is just a possibility, nothing is set in stone to our knowledge that it is a certain event. At any rate if there is a nuclear war many people, the vast majority in fact will survive the initial phases. Most of the fatalities would occur through starvation and disease in the chaos following, so your Y2K preps would only serve to help you through this period. There are so many threats facing us in the near future I think not to prepare is ludicrous, and criminal if you have dependent children.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 26, 1999.

sue, nostradamus like everyone else of his day, used the julian calendar. when he referred to the 7th month, he was not rteferring to our current 7th month of july. he was referring to a date in early august, specifically august 11, 1999. the great king of terror he saw in the sky was not a meteor or anything like that. he was referring to the total eclipse of the sun which will take place on that date, along with a rare astrological grand cross configuration of planets, which had been associated with war in past times.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), April 26, 1999.

Looking at the AP Breaking News page at @11:20/a PT, the headlines oddly mirror this Forum. Of course within an hour everything will have changed, but for any looking in this brief window:

http://www.tampa bayonline.net/news/apbreak.htm

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 26, 1999.

if we're nuked,at least I won't have to eat all these beans

-- zoobie (zoob@aol.com), April 26, 1999.


you should never drop acid on an empty stomach.

-- Tim Leary (LSD-25@heaven.org), April 26, 1999.

Tim, if that's the best rebuttal you can come up with why bother? You can always tell when you're getting close to the truth, these government trolls drop their regular handles and begin these one line hit and run attacks. Not a meaningful argument to be found, just pure diversion. My question for you is, have they told you the date? Maybe you really ought to switch teams.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 26, 1999.

Nikoli Krushev commented:

"You can always tell when you're getting close to the truth, these government trolls drop their regular handles and begin these one line hit and run attacks."

How TRUE!!


-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 26, 1999.

Just up on Drudge:

[ For Educational Purposes Only ]


A 200-pound package containing enough irradium to kill anyone who came near it was lost for days -- without a trace -- by FEDERAL EXPRESS.

Judy Rakowsky is planning a shock report on the incident for Tuesday editions of the BOSTON GLOBE, according to publishing sources.

Ten days ago a worker at a Burlington, Mass. high-tech firm mailed off the package that was supposed to arrive by FEDERAL EXPRESS at a Mexican construction firm the next morning.

It never got there, reports Rakowsky.

"For days, frantic regulators, FEDERAL EXPRESS searched the region -- including a mile-by-mile surveillance of the route from Burlington to Logan Airport for signs of any radiation leakage. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission went on special alert, just as though there had been an accident at a nuclear power plant."

But late on Monday, the package was found, intact, in a hangar at a small airport outside of -- London.

Just a routine mix-up, said a FEDERAL EXPRESS spokesman.


Routine mix-up? ??? Mailing lethal irradium by fedex? Another hazmat reason to Be Prepared -- never know what type of package may be waiting in any neighborhood mailbox.

And this while the infrastructure is UP ...

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 26, 1999.

Nik, in addition to the symbology you named, I thought this line from that woman's verses was interesting:

And yellow men great power gain

From mighty bear with whom they've lain.

These mighty tyrants will fail to do

They fail to split the world in two.

But from their acts a danger bred

An ague - leaving many dead.

And physics find no remedy

For this is worse than leprosy.

Yellow=China, Bear=Russia, the result= nuclear war/radiation? Interesting.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 26, 1999.

Nikoli: Just a small point...Bill Clinton never finished the Rhodes program. He dropped out, but has never seen the need to mention that.

"He was a Rhodes Scholar," is a technically correct statement, according to the lawyers...

-- PNG (png@gol.com), April 26, 1999.


-- PNG (png@gol.com), April 26, 1999.

PJ, that is SCARY, I almost think I would prefer nukes to biological warfare. What the hell am I saying? Is there another choice?

PNG, you mean he lied about that too? DOH!!!

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 26, 1999.

Believe me, Nikoli, almost all of us would prefer nukes to bio. The Soviets could nuke the crap out of us and most of us would read about it in the newspaper or hear about it on the radio. That's the way modern nuclear war is set up; maximum damage to military targets -- minimum civilian casualties (still a couple of million, to be sure, but this nation could absorb that without too big a glitch). The supposed tactic of Mutual Assured Destruction is a myth to mislead the sheeple. Just blast 90% of the U.S. military infrastructure and then you've got a nice nation with an intact infrastructure and a population of slave laborers, with your remaining nukes useful for blackmail purposes.

I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know.

But bio, that's really, really messy and a lot more tricky. Who knows what gets carried back to the motherland on the prevailing winds?

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), April 27, 1999.

David, So they nuke our military targets. You really think that civilian casualies will be nil? 150,000 died in Japan with only one hundreth of the power of a typical SLBM. Do you think our military targets are only in rural areas? How 'bout DC? Get a grip.

Nik, You have never really answered me. You are assuming Russia is in a position for war. They are not, never have been; that's why we're still here.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 27, 1999.

Sheesh, Maria!!! Can you read? I said a "couple of million" civilian casualties!

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), April 27, 1999.

Sorry David, I thought that a couple of million is almost nil in a nation with 250 million people. A couple of million would be wiped out in DC alone. How many targets do you think "90%" includes? I apologize for jumping on you David, but..

Andy and Nik, ... I get real tired of people, who know absolutely nothing (and I mean nothing) about military, strategic planning and the Russian culture, talking about these topics. Andy, so when did you get your classified clearance so you could have access to "real" info. Nik, I know you don't have a clearance. If you think you can obtain info about military nuclear tatics from the net, think again. This is stuff made for TV and movies, no grasp on reality. Try selling it to Spielburg.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 27, 1999.


Perhaps you can verify my own research which says that Soviet doctrine is not and have never been to reduce the cities of the U.S. to radioactive rubble and decimate our population. Rather, it is to eliminate our first and second nuclear strike capability and then subjugate [sp?] the still relatively intact U.S. economy. Are my sources wrong? If not, then we can quibble about how many casualties in that scenario. All I'm really saying is that the "radioactive parking lot, followed by Nuclear Winter" is a lot of bunk. Agree/disagree?

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), April 27, 1999.

Well, the question is how do you take out the military targets without reducing the US to radioactive rubble? Nukes have a way of destroying everything around them. Think of Japan; we only hit two targets with only a fraction of the firepower and it took a while for them to recover. It takes money to recover. Money that Russia doesn't have.

While I agree with taking out some targets to leave something worth pillaging, how do you define "some". We have military targets all across the country; they are not confined to one small area. How do you take them out without taking the US economy out? Then what about retaliation? Do you think the US has no strategic plans? Can Russia afford any retaliation from the US? I don't think so but then again Nik has some other thoughts. However, unlike Nik, I did this for a living while in the Air Force.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 27, 1999.

Ok, Maria,

But the difference is that in the drops on Japan the bombs were detonated in the air, while it is my understanding that most modern nukes burrow underground before detonating. So you get the shock waves and proximate destruction you're looking for without massive quantities of debris being sucked up into the atmosphere and redeposited all over creation as fallout.

I'm not ready to be dogmatic on the point; I'll defer to your hands- on experience. But my sources (Jane's-type stuff) seemed authoritative enough.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), April 27, 1999.

David & Maria, having absolutely no military experience or nuclear expertise, I cautiously offer the following thoughts for your consideration with no presumption of accuracy (how's that for a disclaimer? :-)

If the Russians have or ever did have the strategy for taking out our 1st/2nd strike capabilities, didn't/wouldn't our nuclear subs, long-range bombers and advanced warning radar pretty much make that an impossibility? I heard/read similar reports years ago, but never could fathom how they could strike fast enough for us to not get ours launched. And even if they did "catch'em in the silos", didn't we have long-range bombers loaded with nuclear bombs that could be on their way to Russia in a matter of minutes AND wouldn't it be impossible to stop all our subs from launching.

I guess with all the recent comments/fears/predictions these days regarding Russia launching a nuclear attack on us has me wondering why they would ensure their own destruction.

Also, what about neutron bombs? I thought that was supposed to be the weapon that killed people, but left the infrastructure intact. Is that still true? Does Russia even have that technology? Or do they plan to use chem/bio weapons for that purpose?

-- David (David@BankPacman.com), April 27, 1999.

Maria, I don't understand your argument in the least. If they have Nuclear missiles capable of hitting us they are ready for war. They have thousands of underground shelters for their people, fully stocked with food and water, we have none. Except the ones for the government. They have between ten and twelve thousand ABM missiles with nuclear warheads deployed, we have none. They have a population united in a common frenzy against the United States. We do not have a population united on anything. They have NOTHING to lose. We have EVERYTHING to lose. In previous threads you stated that the gps system wasn't used in our cruise missiles or ICBM's, a fact I conceded to you because I lacked the realevant documents to refute. Since then the Pentagon has acknowledged that indeed the ICBM' and cruise missiles have both been upgraded to use the gps system and are depandent on it. In previous threads we have discussed the vulnerability of the radio communications systems to our submarines, now the pentagon says it is not compliant and cannot be made so. It will have to be completely rebuilt. It will not be done for five years. The Russians have placed their nukes on the highest possible alert level this week, ours are still off alert and still operating under Clinton's policy of no counterlaunch until impact verification, a policy guaranteed to destroy our land based nukes and almost all of our Trident subs before they ever fire a shot. The 4 trident subs we keep on station out of a fleet of 18 are non-compliant, and the pentagon has said many of the systems have no workarounds and cannot be fixed. More over Clinton has removed launch autonomy from those subs and they are entirely dependent on the non-compliant communications systems to launch. Clinton is busily destroying and fragmenting NATO as we speak, removing the last deterrent to a strike by the Russians. I suggest you read this again, then again then again then again then again until it finally penetrates that thick skull of yours that the ones who are not ready for nuclear war are us, not the Russians. I don't know what the Air Force told you, or how long ago that was, but the world is an evolving situation and your same old same old is totally irrelevant in todays climate.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 27, 1999.

David, I'm going to explain this one last time. We no longer have nuclear armed long range bombers on alert. All of our bombers are configured to carry conventional bombs and it takes a minimum of 24 hrs. to change the bomb racks to accept nuclear weapons. In a first strike they will be either destroyed on the ground or all their nuclear weapons and bases destroyed rendering them Useless.

Our ICBM,s are detargeted, off alert, and operating under a policy of no counterlaunch until Actual enemy detonations of incoming warheads are confirmed and then may only be launched with Presidential Authorization. This policy GUARANTEES that our entire ICBM force will be destroyed in it's silos. Thank you Bill Clinton.

Our entire Nuclear missile submarine fleet consist of 18 Trident submarines. At any given time all but four of them are in port. Bill Clinton has removed the launch codes from all of the Tridents, and these must be transmitted to them along with Presidential authoirization before they can launch. the ELF antenna arrays, of which we have TWO, are the means by which these coommunications would be passed. Both of these arrays would also be destroyed in a first strike. In addition the Radio systems are not Y2K com;liant, and cannot be made so according to the Pentagon. They will have to be replaced, and that cannot possibly be done in the time remaining before Y2K takes them out.

There is no three leg triad of nuclear defense. It is gone. Period. Under our current operating policies Instituted by Bill Clinton a first strike from the Russian would totally devastate the military and industrial infrastructure of this country. In 30 minutes we would cease to exist as a nation, and re-enter the stone age. On top of all these factors the gps system rolls over Aug. 22 of this year. The Pentagon says 12,000 of it's weapons systems are dependent to one extent or another on this system, and nowhere near all of them will be ready by rollover. Bottom line is this, from Aug. 22 until Dec.31 midnight Moscow time the Russians have for all practical purposes got a free shot at us. I'm sure we could muster some minimal defense and might even get a warhead or two off the ground and through their 10 or 12 thousand nuclear tipped ABM's, though it would be doubtful. The only thing stopping them from nuking us are the NATO countries which have nuclear weapons and are by treaty obligated to protect us. Bill Clinton to the rescue. Our current conflict in Serbia is tearing NATO to pieces, if it goes to a ground war, or the oil embargo escaltes into fighting between Russia and the U.S., NATO will dissolve. Then there will be no deterrent at all..

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 27, 1999.

I agree with everything you've said, Nikoli, except for the "returning to the stone age" part. I assert again that it is not Soviet doctrine to totally destroy this nation's infrastructure; that would be stupid and totally counterproductive to their globalist agenda. It is our doctrine that says that we will destroy your cities if you try to destroy our military. They want a nation of productive slaves, not a radioactive parking lot.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), April 27, 1999.

MY reference to the stone age is more in the sense of EMP damage than blast effects. Our Entire electrical grid would be glown and most likely the generators themselves burnt out from the voltage spikes, not to mention all the exploded transformers. Telecommunications would be devastated and government non-existent. 100% unemployment=collapsed banking sytem, radiation refugees, no militry, mass starvation with no fuel to run trucks or trains, I think you get my drift.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 27, 1999.


Is it not true that a subterranean nuclear blast directly underneath the could wipe out that military target without wiping out the majority of the population of Washington D.C.?

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), April 27, 1999.

"underneath the PENTAGON could . . . ."

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), April 27, 1999.

Maria, you seem to be under the impression that the 'cold war' is still going on. I spent 4 years in the military with a top secret clearance and can tell you that given enough provokation, the Russians will fire on us. Our current foreign policy seem set on aggravating the situation, instead of resolving it.

Has anyone given thought to the possibility of a Depression happening before either y2k or WWIII. Our stock market is so out of whack, it could collapse first.

-- Donna (djcrider@gatx.com), April 27, 1999.

David, seems to me the Russians might indeed actually prefer the USA as a glow-in-the-dark-u-park-lot, rather than a 'nation of slaves'. I mean, they've DONE the 'nation of slaves' thing - no fun, non- sustainable. Better just wipe the USA out, let it smolder while they then take their time getting their own house in order.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), April 27, 1999.

Nik, And you acquire your nuclear weapons effects expertise and knowledge of our strategic defenses through which organization? Janes is a great source of info but it doesn't contain all info. It only contains pieces of data. Underground facilities? Who are you kidding? They can't even feed their people now, why would they feed them after a nuclear exchange? The underground is only for the elite of which there are few.

"Russia has nothing to lose" but also they do not have any infrastructure with which to incorporate this newly acquired country. You forget they ALWAYS had nothing to lose. They never had a sound economy or government. This little "disintegration" of the Soviet Union didn't happen over night; it began with the revolution. It couldn't hold up under the weight of the communist regime. Sorry if I offend some of you out there but the Russians are too stupid to govern or rule their own country let alone any other country as secured as ours.

David, IMHO, you use nukes when you want maximum destruction. In Japan, they weren't "altitude" bursts; in reality they were ground bursts. Why use a nuke to go underground? Why not use conventional? You get the same effect. When a nuke detonates, radiation is emitted. That radiation will travel underground as well but maybe not as far.

The other David, yes we do have the time to launch before their nukes hit our targets.

Nik, on a side note: EMP will not have the effects you mentioned. Again, where do you get these weapons effects simulations? Have you ever done any simulations on nukes? I have.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 27, 1999.

Maria, What can I say? The sheer idiocy of that last post is so apparent that no rebuttal is nesescary.

-- Nikoli Krushev (Doomsday@y2000.com), April 27, 1999.


His latest article in Vortex is about the forces that are pushing Russia to war:

He refers to J. Michael Waller's article in the Washington Times on December 25th stating that Russia IS NOW preparing for war.

1) Y2k.

The Duma y2k expert has said that 80 % of Russia's military computers will be affected. Also their ICBM's guidance systems will be affected by the rollover.

2) America's military weakness.

Low morale. 27 army divisions to 10. 37 air force wings to 13. Navy ships from 542 to 339. (Russia had and still maintains 16 military districts. 150 army divisions. Zero treaty verification.)

3) Nuclear balance in Russia's favor.

"During the Clinton administration more than two thirds of America's nuclear arsenal has been destroyed." At the end of the cold war Russia had 50,000 nuclear weapons. French intelligence reports that Russia still retains a tactical nuclear arsenal of some 25,000 warheads. Russia continues to modernize her nuclear forces, conduct underground testing, and has developed hard to detect tactical weapons.

4) America has reached a threshold of reduction.

America still retains a deterrent of approx. 7000 large warheads. It now appears that this number will not be reduced to 3500 according to Start II, because Congress has rebuffed efforts by Sen. Kerry and others. "In fact, over the objections of the Clinton administration, Congress authorized an additional one billion to keep 50 MX Peacekeeper missiles operational. Russian analysts obviously see what we see." (By the way, the Start plan to destroy these Peacekeeper missiles has always been one of Skousen's two major reasons why he believes Russia will wait until 2004-2008. His other reason was that Russia is in the midst of developing new weapons that are not ready yet. I wonder if Joel has changed his thinking on the timing?) America has reached her threshold in reductions. And if Russia waits she faces no further reductions but upgrades due to China and North Korea nuclear threats."

5) Russia sees missile defense as a threat.

Russia and China have shown stiff resistance to this new U.S. plan. Having failed to stop it, it has reached the pinnacle of U.S. weakness.

6) The China Dynamic.

As of Nov. 1998, Russia and China are now allied. Russia sees China as her long term enemy but sees their alliance as an advantage to a first strike against her short term enemy. Bringing China into a war with the U.S. would keep China from progressing at the staggering rate she is now both economically, militarily, and in its nuclear capacity.

7) Russia's economy has collapsed.

Everything from electricity to clean water is scarce. Hospitals are no longer operating as before. Millions are out of work and millions are not paid for the work they do. All of this is blamed on America. (Also the war in Kosovo is driving Russians to want war with the U.S.)

8) Russian national pride.

Russia has failed to bring her people into the modern information age. Military glory was mother Russia's chief comfort. Like Hitler's Germany Russia wants to regain its great place in world affairs.

"At this point in time, Russia may see a dangerous opportunity. America is at her weakest, led by a man detested by most of the military....It has leverage with all the key trouble spots: North Korea, Iraz, and Yugoslavia. She has a fragile alliance with China. These facotrs and others may compel the Russians to frightening considerations. Nobody knows what will happen in the remaining months of 1999. But one thing is certain. The danger of war is greater today than it has been for many years." -Nyquist -------------------

Tell me Nyquist doesn't make sense. My only reservations have to do with Russia's relationship with China. They have and never will trust each other. China's great progress is based on western consumerism and technology. They have nothing to gain by joining with Russia to nuke the U.S. except it enables them to to add the Pacific basin. Their economy is dependent on us. Sure, they will be able to conquer the pacific basin and Taiwan but they are shooting themselves in the foot by destroying us, in my opinion. China also has to be careful about using up her smaller than Russia's nuclear arsenal. It would make her vulnerable to Russian Nuclear attack. But that doesn't mean Russia cannot act on her own if China doesn't join in an attack.

The wildcard is Islam. Islam hates communism as much as America. As Arlin rightly points out, Islam is a strong force throughout Asia, and they are armed. I can only guess that Russia is promising the Moslems, Israel, if Islam helps to create hotspots, help with terroristic attacks on our shores, and possibly help keep China in check. Time will tell.

Geez, I hope all this is wrong. My hope is in the great God who said through Isaiah: "Behold,the nations are like a drop from a bucket, and are accounted as dust on the scales; behold, He takes up the isles like fine dust. Lebanon would not suffice for fuel, nor are its beasts enough for a burnt offering. ALL the nations are as nothing before Him, they are accounted by Him as less than nothing and emptiness." Isaiah 40:15-17. (See also Psalm 2) Matthew 10:26-32. B

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), April 27, 1999.

I had the unique pleasure, growing up, to be treated by one of the doc's who did the US study in 1950-52 in Japan. His comments wuold suggest that the handwringing in respect to nuclear winter etc. is just that. Handwringing. If I remember correctly, PSR (Physicians for Sosial Responsibility) came calling on him a NUMBER of times, asking for his participation, and each time he suggested that they had way too much free time, or some such. they DESPARATELY needed someone who had seen the damage close up, of the use of the weapons in anger. He would not let his name be used. They could quote his papers but not his name as a contributor, eetc to the organization.


-- chuck, a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), April 27, 1999.

If yall don't mind I'd like to get off topic here for a second and get personal. I just got a phone call a few minutes ago telling me a good friend of mine has been killed in an accident. This is the second phone call of this type I have had in a little over a month. Two good friends dead, both in their early 40's, both leaving a widow and children. Both killed in stupid accidents. Keil was the first, a 16 year old kid with no drivers liscence ran a red light and hit him in the drivers door. The aorta was torn from his heart by the impact and he died right there with his wife and two sons watching. Keil was an extraordinary person, a devout Christian and family man who never had anything but kind words for anyone. He also loved to shoot guns and that was our connection. Rufus was killed this morning when a trailer he was working on fell on him and crushed him. He was a black man with a heart as big as Texas. Luckily another of my friends discovered his body before his wife and kids returned home from shopping.

What I want to say here is that both of these deaths were a needless waste, an uncalled for tragedy. Death is always near, looking over our shoulders, so let's not make it any easier for it. Please each of you slow down a little and recognize risky situations before you commit yourself to them. There's a lot of you I consider to be my friends even though I've never met you, and I'm tired of losing friends. And yes Maria I've grown fond of our little verbal battles too. Take care.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 28, 1999.

My heart goes out to you and those affected by these tragedies. In a world where we can't account for the whereabouts of the last moment, nor even the next, creation further presents us, sphinx-like, the riddle of life and death. I pray that comforting peace settles into the hearts of those who are suffering, as well as your own.

mmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm

-- Ashton (allaha@earthlink.net), April 28, 1999.

Hi Nik,

Guess I'll have to out and be Pastor Brown this morning.

Thought you might like a word of comfort. Unlike Gore who told 7000 in Colorado that no words could comfort the bereaved, I believe Paul who wrote, "Therefore, comfort one another with these words." 1Thess.4:13-18.

I just did a funeral for a three month old child. What do I say in that situation? What else is there but 'the blessed hope'.

Here is a word that I received several weeks ago from 2Kings 22:14-20. Josiah was a man of God and brought revival and renewal to Israel, but God still decided to bring His judgments upon the people. So Huldah the prophetess sent word to the King: (I believe He is saying the same thing today.) "Thus says the Lord, The God of Israel: 'Tell the man who sent you to me. Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place and upon its inhabitants, all the words of the book which King Josiah read.(See Deut. 28). Because they have forsaken Me...therefore my wrath will be kindled against this place, and it will not be quenched. But as to the king of Judah (Josiah)...thus shall you say to him, Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel...Because your heart was penitent, and you humbled yourself before the Lord, when you heard how I spoke against this place, and against its inhabitants, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and you have rent your clothes and wept before Me, I also have heard you, says the Lord. Therefore, behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place.' And they brought back word to the king."

I believe that God is doing the same thing today. He is taking certain ones so their eyes will not behold the evil that is coming. And also, He allows these deaths to happen because He sees that a child, or wife or relative will be saved as a result. Let us bow before His wisdom.

See your friends as martyrs, Nik. Romans 8:28. Be glad for them that their eyes will not see the evil that is coming on our nation. His angels are watching over their little ones. The kingdom is at hand. Soon we will meet Him in the air and together forever be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. "Behold, I come quickly." "Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid." John 14:1-3

Resting in His love, BB

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), April 28, 1999.

My thanks to Ashton and Leska, BB, and to Greybear, who responded in a private e-mail. I was not looking for responses and not soliciting them, but they are appreciated. Sometimes life just gets the better of you and you have to vent a little. May God Bless you one and all and keep you healthy, wealthy, and wise. Or barring that at least happy.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 28, 1999.


Leska, Ashton, et al. have something I don't. I can't respond privately so I'll extend my sympathies and prayers for the souls of your friends, their families, and you. May the souls of the faithful departed rest in peace.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), April 28, 1999.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ