Supposed you were asked for a statement. How could you craft one that SOUNDS like it is saying something when it says absolutely nothing at all? Ask Senator Bennett.

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Bennett Expects Y2K Economic Fallout; Says "Make Intelligent Preparations"

By Drew Parkhill/CBN News

WASHINGTON - Despite being more optimistic than he was 18 months ago, Robert Bennett, the Senate's Y2K leader, says he nonetheless believes "there will be an economic consequence to Y2K," and that he tells Americans to "take charge of your own life" when it comes to considering their own preparations for whatever problems the computer glitch may bring.

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MAKE INTELLIGENT DECISIONS

He says to make 'intelligent' decisions. Sound advice as opposed to encouraging people to make unintelligent decisions. Gee, telling folks to make 'intelligent' decisions is REALLY GOOOOOOD advice isn't it? It APPEARS to say something and yet, it says absolutely NOTHING.

THERE WILL BE AN ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCE TO Y2K

GeE really, uncle Bob?. Care to be a bit more specific. There is an economic consequence to my buying a piece of bubble gum, too. BUT ALL YOU REALLY BRIGHT GUYS JUST CAN'T SEEM TO GET DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY AND SPECIFY THE CONSEQUENCES, CAN YOU?

TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR OWN LIFE

Ooooh. More sage wisdom. Does he give even the slightest CRITERIA upon which to make an intelligent decision? NOPE! Does he say exactly what taking charge of you life would entail? NOPE! Does he even hint at what the economic consequences might be? NOPE.

Once again, Bennett says absolutely nothing in another splendid cover his ass statement. He has said NOTHING AT ALL, but if the shit hits the fan, it will be able to be used as his 'warning' to do something.

Bennett is a scumbag. He is a coward hiding behind MEANINGLESS words.

"See, I told ya so" said Senator Bennett. "I told them to make intelligent choices when taking charge of their lives in the face of certain economic consequences."

ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO

Now the day that Bennett wants to play with the big boys and stick his cajones on the line by being ABSOLUTELY specific about what he means, THEN I will take him seriously as a MAN and not the little boy playing politician that he is.

http://www.cbn.org/y2k/insights.asp?file=990423.htm

-- Paul Milne

If you live within five miles of a 7-11, you're toast.

-- a (a@a.a), April 23, 1999

Answers

I agree. It's the gentle, soft-spoken, pleasant figureheads who are doing the greatest damage. Because he is so darn reassuring, even patriarchal -- and also "patronizing" in tone -- people are lulled into non-action.

What harm could it do to him to suggest that at the least, people should be working on building towards more self-sufficiency? Oh yes, I nearly forgot... there's no motivation for him to serve the public: the constituency of most politicians is no longer the American people, but rather the corporate entities who buy them their office with $$$ and slick ad campaigns.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), April 23, 1999.

a? Sara? Milne, the biggest idiot to grace the planet Earth since Nero?

Do you really want things to be so bad? It appears so. Your comments are destructive, not constructive....by Webster definition.

Do you really think that, in general, all people that are elected to public office have it in mind to treat all of us so badly?

Do you vote? If so, why? If not, why not?

Why don't you go live somewhere like......ummm.....Kosovo, for example, if we have it so bad in the U.S.? And give us your report when you return? (Bet it'll have a different tone)

Are you militia/cult members? Do you envision/wish for the downfall of the whole system, like Duct-Tape North?

Inquiring minds want to know.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), April 24, 1999.

Chicken Little,

Do you have children? Bring the question down to your level and see wether you would warn your own children, friends, family of a potential problem. Do you really think that government officials are putting out the facts re: Y2K?

"Are you militia/cult members? Do you envision/wish for the downfall of the whole system, like Duct-Tape North?"

Why accuse people of being militia/cult? What does that do? Isn't that what they call a strawman tactic? Did you know that it was militia that formed the American Revolutionary Army. Citizen Soldiers? Hmmm?

I think the "System" will go Y2K or not, it is a slave economy and not worth keeping. Freedom will return with the fall of this economy! Trouble, then Peace.

I say, down with the usary bankers and their ilk.

-- militiaguy (militia@citizensoldier.peace), April 24, 1999.

Politicians have been spewing this kind of "Double Speak" for eons. That's WHY they are politicians. The ones that do speak honestly and openly are few and far between.

Nothing new here!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 24, 1999.

At least Milne has often demonstrated what he really wants -- solid, specific, detailed descriptions of the future. Of course, Milne has been totally wrong *every time* he's tried this, but that's not what's important. Specific is good. Wrong doesn't matter.

But Milne clearly goes further. Any specifics that don't include massive dieback, flaming death trains to hell, universal riots, moving to the sticks and taking up pig farming, etc. are also dead wrong.

Making intelligent decisions means studying the situation, determining in your own mind what you expect, and taking actions to protect yourself against at least that much, if not a bit worse than that. Oops, that's no good either. We should instead prepare against Milne's future. Remember, wrong doesn't matter. DON'T think for yourself. Milne will do it for you.

Now, why 'a' continues to regurgitate these rants is a puzzle. They're useless as warnings, because they raise instant defenses against nuttiness in ordinary people. They're incoherent as arguments, consisting of attacks in insults without substance. Our preparations are hardly guided intelligently just because there are loonies in the boonies. So what's the point?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 24, 1999.

Flint, I would rather listen to someone who has the GUTS to state a position knowing they may be wrong than to listen to politicians and others who through their "Double Speak" can always be on the RIGHT side of the debate. These folks are truly WEASELS.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 24, 1999.

Chicken Little,

I am not militia, I am soccer Mom. With that responsibility, I look at the political landscape now in woe. I have little chicks to protect.

The real topic here is the damage that is being done by Bennett and other with the half-truths and facts presented in a comforting light. These leaders are in a position to be heard and could make a contribution to the preparation efforts of their constituency.

Panic should not be as great a concern as thirst and starvation. How about putting one quarter of their effort into preparation support at the community level and saving $ on the grand public relations campaigns to "prevent panic" ?

BTW, Flint, I think Milne's value is that he is that he forces the scale of possibilities to consider much further than most others do.That is useful in playing out all of the scenarios and preparing for the ones that seem likely based on what we know. He has the courage of his convictions, and I think that does serve us all.

Style? Heck, I don't like the "style" of some of the other posters here, either, but they still make contributions to my understanding.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), April 24, 1999.

I support Bennett's work and am grateful to him for being one of the only humans, way back when, in the government who would really grab this ball and run with it. He has been invaluable and a great deal of the work that HAS gotten done with utilities and others is thanks in part to Bennett and his group.

That being said, Paul Milne is correct. Bennett's words were very interesting but said absolutely nothing of value. That doesn't mean I don't support the good Senator, and it doesn't mean I'm not aware that Paul has been selling TEOTWAKI since long ago, without it having happened yet. It just means that regardless of ideologies here (about everything), in this instance, Milne on Bennett is clearly correct.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 24, 1999.

Don't misunderstand. We're staring in the face of a huge unknown. Extremely unknown. Milne is correct in saying that Bennett can't see the future and admits it. Milne, on the other hand, can't see the future either but WON'T admit it. Since Milne believes he CAN see the future (although he's always been dead wrong), he has no tolerance for those who admit they can't.

Personally, I question the convictions of intolerant nutballs with terrible track records. If you think those convictions are useful, more power to you. So far, if you'd bet on the exact opposite of all of Milnes predictions (which he calls FACTS, hehehe) you'd be wealthy indeed.

A general question about tactics here: Would YOU be more likely to respond positively to someone who says Look, Listen, and Think, or would you respond more positively to someone who says Agree with me or you're a JERK?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 24, 1999.

I take your point, Flint, but I think I am able to find usefulness in exploring the whole range of scenarios.

As for Bennett, he has done some very worthwhile things, and he seems like a genuine, nice person. But, when I begin to look at the difference between the comments he makes, off-handedly, on C-SPAN and then what he crafted for the big press conferencence after the release of the Senate Report, I am dismayed.

It is not possible to feel that a disinformation campaign is underway, IMHO.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), April 24, 1999.

Flint: How in the hell can you come down so squarely on Bennett's side when he is advising doing practically nothing, while you on the other hand, are advising stocking up on several months of food, water and supplies, taking all your money out of the bank, preparing for a depression, etc.? REGARDLESS of who has been "proven right" THUS FAR.

-- a (a@a.a), April 24, 1999.

and Sara I assume you mean "not underway"

-- a (a@a.a), April 24, 1999.

Bad sentence struycture, anyway you look at it! I meant, it seems to me that there IS a disinformation campaign underway.

You know, "a", whenever I type with my squiggly 2-year old on my lap, strange things happen. It's 7am here in Hawaii, so I have to go make pancakes before I am de-throned as Mom.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), April 24, 1999.

Sara:

A big disinformation campaign is indeed underway. I don't question that. Of course, the disinformation is coming from all sides, based on a whole spectrum of motivations.

Look, even Cory says he knows of only a very few projects he's really worried about. He doesn't guarantee any particular future, and he knows neither he nor anyone else has the big picture. As I've mentioned before, even geeks working together on the same project can have very different expectations for the ultimate fate of that project.

It's one thing to say that total collapse falls within the realm of possibility -- almost anything falls there. It's quite another thing to insist that total collapse is guaranteed. We really have very little if any hard evidence that this can happen. Yes, economic consequences seem likely. Like everything else, they cannot be guaranteed and could well be difficult to measure. Many things have economic consequences, and separating those consequences from the usual noise of ordinary economic dynamics isn't easy.

The real question here, I think, is Milne's value as a foghorn. I think his presentation works against him here. He has mostly entertainment value. If you've studied the REAL y2k material and come to a different conclusion, Milne is a clown (and we laugh). If your conclusions match his, then you root him on for stick-your-fingers-in- your-ears-and-scream attacks on the 'enemy'. But beyond entertainment, we all think for ourselves. Milne hates that.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 24, 1999.

I don't care what Milne thinks about me, or "us". I don't care what he did before. I am not voting for him. I am using his ideas as a springboard.

I do know that his "foghorn" has lead more than one person to get less comfortable with what is *known*. Other writings, like infomagic's and "Tom's Take", share this quality; they stretch the concept of what is possible. Playing out our response to their scenarios as an exercise has value...much more than remaining complacent in the lull of the Federal "anaesthesia campaign."

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), April 24, 1999.

'a':

Bennett says make intelligent decisions. I believe I have done so. Apparently Milne thinks it's meaningless to be intelligent. Now, he may have excellent personal reasons for this position, but I still believe intelligent decisions are appropriate, Milne notwithstanding.

Basically, Milne is taking Bennett to task for failure to SPECIFY THE CONSEQUENCES. Nobody knows the consequences, even in broadest outline. Doesn't bother Milne a bit. Milne has been specific, and specifically wrong, over and over again. That doesn't bother him either. But it ought to bother you a bit (assuming, of course, that you believe in making intelligent decisions and controlling your own life. Do you?)

Sure, I'd like it if Bennett came out and said "Prepare so as not to have to walk out the door, or have anyone else come in, for three months." Then Bennett would agree with ME. But I might be completely wrong. Maybe I should instead prepare for a year of unemployment in a reasonably working world? Maybe I should be learning to farm? Maybe I should be preparaing for a depression rather than an infrastructure failure? I don't know. And I don't believe anyone else does either.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 24, 1999.

Now, there's a concept, Flint, FARMING.

What if the good Senator put some efforts into encouraging the populace to garden or farm in order to become more self-reliant? There's a cause that could even have political benefits: a "Back to the Land" campaign.

That's a suggestion that anyone can handle at some level, whether it's apartment patio container gardening or acres of land prepared to serve a small town.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), April 24, 1999.

Senator Bennett and Crew have done what these folks do best, a balancing act between both sides. no matter what happens they will ultimately be able to say "I TOLD YOU SO" with a straight face.

Flint has also played this game WELL! As the true story begins to unfold latter this summer we will start to know the TRUTH

Milne's scenario is still possible, don't let folks like Flint confuse you. I would rather error on the side of caution than to listen to the SHILLS in Washington and other places.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 24, 1999.

Ray:

Always best to err on the side of caution. I'm planning to make the same error.

Remember, though, Yourdon said we'd know the TRUTH on the first of April. He's had to back off and postpone the truth, however, since he didn't get the truth he expected. Will you be backing off and postponing later this summer, or will you have the courage of your own convictions and change your mind if nothing happens?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 24, 1999.

In point by point answer to the amazing butthead flint:

Don't misunderstand. We're staring in the face of a huge unknown.

Don't misunderstand. it is CLEARLY known. Only morons, obtuse self- deceived morons like flint, with their hands over their eyes running around screaming "I can't see! I can't see," are the blind ones.

Extremely unknown.

Only to blind idiots.

Milne is correct in saying that Bennett can't see the future and admits it. Milne, on the other hand, can't see the future either but WON'T admit it.

I do not claim to see the future. I claim to see the consequences of the failed remediation.

Since Milne believes he CAN see the future (although he's always been dead wrong), he has no tolerance for those who admit they can't.

No. I merely have no tolerance for blind assholes.

Personally, I question the convictions of intolerant nutballs with terrible track records. If you think those convictions are useful, more power to you. So far, if you'd bet on the exact opposite of all of Milnes predictions (which he calls FACTS, hehehe) you'd be wealthy indeed.

"all" of my predictions? LOL LOL

A general question about tactics here: Would YOU be more likely to respond positively to someone who says Look, Listen, and Think, or would you respond more positively to someone who says Agree with me or you're a JERK?

Flint, you are not a jerk. You are an asshole.

And by the way, above you said that I was upset with people who think for themselves. Not true. But I do recognize assholes like you who try to pass of their random synaptic firings as 'thought'.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 24, 1999.

-- Paul Milne (fedifo@halifax.com), April 24, 1999.

"I do not claim to see the future. I claim to see the consequences of the failed remediation."

You mean the past consequences I guess, since you do not claim to see future consequences. We've been over this -- there haven't been any past consequences. Why are you so frightened then?

Oh, you mean *future* consequences? But you just said you can't see the future. Well, if you can't see the past OR the future, just what are your synapses doing anyway?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 24, 1999.

Now there is a ripe subject! Just how many of the 'rules of disinformation' have the jerks attacking Flint broken? I think it has to be all of them by now! TSK TSK.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), April 25, 1999.

Paul,

I'm one of those jerks that BELIEVE Flint is the king of DISINFOMATION. He has attempted to mislead many on this forum with very sophisticated DISINFORMATION posts.

You may want to review the:

Twenty Five Rules of Disinformation again

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 25, 1999.

Rule #5 -- attack the messenger. Good one, Ray.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 25, 1999.

NO Flint, it's the MESSAGE not the messenger that I am talking about. You have CONSISTENTLY led folks to believe that all would be well (the main body of your post) while very subtly saying in the background there may be some problems.

This is the technique used by many in the government and industry.

BTW you are an EXPERT at your PROFESSION. Congratulations!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 25, 1999.

Ray:

True that you and I hold different opinions and expectations. But expressing a different opinion isn't disinformation. I never say you're lying even though I consider your analytical abilities strikingly substandard. You're doing the best you can with what you have, and have formed an opinion on that basis. Good for you. You see tornadoes or hurricanes coming, and I see a 20% chance of rain.

By the way, are you going to change your mind if nothing happens later this summer, or are you going to weasel?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 25, 1999.

Flint commented:

" I never say you're lying even though I consider your analytical abilities strikingly substandard."

what did you say about rule #5 Flint?

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 25, 1999.

Flint commented:

"By the way, are you going to change your mind if nothing happens later this summer, or are you going to weasel? "

Flint, I have NEVER had a problem with admitting I was wrong. In this case I hope and pray that I am. I am not predicting the end of the world but I do feel strongly that we will experience a massive economic downturn in part due to y2k.

In your case you CAN'T BE WRONG! You can continue to tout your self proclaimed analytical abilities but I will continue to "Call It As I Seez It".

Your Pal Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 25, 1999.

Ray:

I think we're largely in agreement here. I also call it as I see it. And I can indeed be wrong, if my preparations turn out to be inadequate. Like you, I'm hoping I've made a large error on the side of caution. But I'm not expecting things to be bad just because I'm prepared against that, nor have I prepared against very bad news because I expect bad news. Once again, preparing against the stakes doesn't blind me from assessing the odds. I see the stakes being much higher than the odds. This isn't disinformation. I admit I'm guessing, and prepared to guess wrong.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 25, 1999.

Well Flint, if people visit the forum, read a few posts, and see some of yours, maybe they'll take you seriously, and they really won't worry about it so much, and they won't prepare much, and their children might starve. But it's okay, because while you were being argumentative in most threads against Y2K failures really happening, in just a few you did admit that you in fact are making plenty of preparations yourself. In an effort to avoid your seemingly logical literary works to potentially cause the deaths of innocent people who bought into your influence, perhaps you should begin each of your posts with "I'm preparing for three months and taking some money out of the bank. Now. {XYZ} is a goon and a jerk and things are not going to be so bad." This would allow people to see both of the personalities currently residing in your body at once, and would avoid a great deal of confusion for readers.

Your fan (about one in 60 posts or so),

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 26, 1999.