from y2ksupply.com. fyi. Don't like or believe it ? Talk to them, not me:

*EXCLUSIVE HOT TIP* We interviewed personnel at a major firearms manufacturer today. The complete interview will be public in a week or two, but here's the skinny on something we learned just today: orders of urban assault military training weapons have increased 50% - 75% in the last few months. They're being shipped to Fort Benning, Georgia to train Delta, Ranger, SEAL and other SpecOps forces. We've got this on the record from a sales associate from this major firearms manufacturer. Finally, this is no longer just a rumor.

What kind of guns are these? Collapsible stocks, smaller caliber (such as 9mm), fully-automatic and lightweight. ...just what soldiers need to stage assaults on cities. So... which cities are they training to assault? That's the big question.

Certainly, urban warfare training has been going on for years, but never like this. Watch next month for a staged military urban assault training drill right here in a major U.S. city!

More to come on this story...

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), April 22, 1999

Answers

Blue -

Probably for ground troops going into Kosovo villages - our current urban warfare practice arena.

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), April 22, 1999.

"Collapsible stocks, smaller caliber (such as 9mm), fully-automatic and lightweight"

For an assault on Kosovo? I don't think so...those Serbs are dug in and the villages are small relative to modern cities.

Not being an expert, I guess to me this sounds more like something that is easily concealed and perfect for undercover work.

Mike =================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), April 22, 1999.

Why would Delta,Ranger,SEAL and other SpecOps forces need any additional training with any weapon? They aren't going to be stageing assaults on any of our cities,first people say our military readiness is at an all time low then when the military starts beefing it up people start getting suspicious. People can't have it both ways. If the military wanted to overtake any of our cities they have more than enough of what they need to do it! After y2k all its gonna take is food and water.

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), April 22, 1999.

either way we can't fight back!!leave the cities before road blocks are posted!!

-- zoobie (zoob@aol.com), April 22, 1999.

This is indeed very interesting, and very SCARY. I have heard many rumors about martial law, etc. - does anything on this forum feel there is a possibility that we could see restrictions on travel, or martial law, as early as this summer? Or is that just a bad rumor?

-- Scarlett (creolady@aol.com), April 22, 1999.

Sorry, I meant to say "anyone" on this forum.

-- Scarlett (creolady@aol.com), April 22, 1999.

I really expect to see the draft begun again. The military cutbacks have nearly done in our troops as far as numbers go. They will need all our young men to use these new weapons.

-- winna (??@??.com), April 22, 1999.

I doubt there'll be ANY alarmist hype from the big money establishment the banks will never reveal the BIG LIE of fractional reserve banking...the government will probably wait until the pollyanna-why-didn't-you-make-me-believe-sheeple clamor and cry for for martial law like a leperous babe crying to suckle a diseased,oozing teat

-- zoobie (zoob@aol.com), April 22, 1999.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Klinton were the one to reinsitute the draft?

-- Mike (Boxman9186@aol.com), April 22, 1999.

Blue -

If you're talking about M-9 carbines (those are the 9mm look-alikes of the M16) those aren't the sort of weapons which would be used in an "urban assault" by any military force that knew what it was doing. They ARE, however, issued to armored vehicle crew members, and others (such as some MP's) who don't have room for a '16 and ammo. They're being used to replace a wide variety of submachineguns in the inventory including (believe it or not) some vintage M-3 .45 cal "Greaseguns" which were still being issued to Reserve and Guard units...and yeah that means those M-3s probably outlived their original manufacturers.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 22, 1999.

If these orders are for upgrade and replacement, there's gotta be a surplus market somewhere.... (based on past performance).

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), April 22, 1999.

Scarlet, I understand sometime in August we will see restrictions. There will be an escalation of propoganda if that is the case. Keep an eye and ear open. It won't happen suddenly. Instead they will lead gently with 'information'. They seem to be masters of this game and I expect them to play this one very well, unless things get out of control suddenly. Not to be 'scared' but preps should be done fairly soon (end of June???).

-- David (C.D@I.N), April 22, 1999.

To David:

Could you be more specific about what you believe will happen in August? What would the the warning signs? What restrictions? And what will be the reason given for these restrictions? Would the NG first have to be called up?

thanks for the post

-- Les Holladay (holladayl@aol.com), April 22, 1999.

In August communist African troops will swarm down in black helicopters and conquer all our cities.

Or something like that.

This thread is just the usual right-wing NWO fantasies. They haven't been taking their medication.

-- nospam (nospam@nospam.com), April 22, 1999.

Scarlett (creolady@aol.com),

You ask: Does anyone on this forum feel there is a possibility of travel restrictions or martial law as early as this summer?

Yes, obviously, there are several regular posters that feel the possibility of martial law. AAA can inform you about summer travel restrictions and highlight the best detours around the construction zones on those handy "triptik"s of theirs. But this response takes your question too literally, I suppose. ;->

>Or is that just a bad rumor?

Yes. For less than the price of a AAA membership, but a little more of your time, you can get most of the same info from state tourist departments about travel restrictions. They all have toll-free phone numbers.

Ask the feelers of the possiblity of martial law how they reconcile those feelings with the downsizing of the military and the chronic shortages of police personnel? Exactly who is going to enforce this martial law over how much of an area? Do the arithmetic.

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), April 22, 1999.

No Spam,

You can't possibly be that stupid.

In the event of a biological event requiring quarrantine, it is well known that major cities can be locked-down via roadblocks and closures of major arteries.

Most folk travel by car, and would be helpless if that mode of getting around was curtailed. It's easy to do with a minimal of military strength. Local law enforcement close main roads and access points to highways and thruways. State police can block entrance/exit ramps on interstates and tolls. Augment that with crack troops in strategic locations and WALA!.... LOCKDOWN.

Sure you could get out if you were dexterious enough, and were willing to go on foot. But how many think ahead in order to make ready for that contingency?

Again, my take is LOCKDOWN and containment. They cannot risk losing control of major poulation areas to exodus. It would create a climate ripe for major insurrections. Better to contain mayhem and let the cities burn or fester, than to see the countryside invaded with urbanites hell-bent on survival at all costs, with the possibility of large pockets of these refugees reforming into resistance groups "liberate" lockdown areas.

The powers-that-be will NOT allow this to happen. Free-for-all is not an option.

Metro lockdowns and containment make for better control options throughout the countryside later.

Skepticism is fine as long as you don't make yourself blind to possibilities in the process.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 22, 1999.

er, INVAR, unless you're dealing with a city on a penninsula, or you really think all urban dwellers are stupid enough to use only interstate routes into and out of urban areas (they aren't) there is no way to absolutely isolate a major urban area...that's the dirty little secret of all of the plans FEMA has for dealing with a biological attack...actual containment of the human vectors will be nearly impossible, unless it's in the north in the middle of winter.

For instance, there is a way to get all the way from the Potomac to south of the beltway without ever being seen on a major thoroughfare - and kids have done and still do it all the time (hint: but only in dry weather).

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 22, 1999.

Seems to me it would be rather simple to stop an exodus from the cities......all they'd have to do is interupt the gasoline supply

-- Sheila (sross@bconnex.net), April 23, 1999.

INVAR,

You're overdue for your humor booster.

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), April 23, 1999.

Sheila,

the thing is, that even total elimination of the civilian fuel supply - which would take several days at least - still doesn't stop people from walking out, riding their bicycles out, etc, etc.

got Plan B?

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 23, 1999.

Arlin,

It is NOT impossible to lock a city down and keep a MAJORITY (Not all but most) of the folk in their areas.

In the event of a statewide or national emergency requiring containment, ALL law enforcement and municipal crews can be used to close main roads and highways. You start at the local level and work up. The county cops close county roads, state cops close state highways and tollroads. What's not to understand here? Entire towns have been contained due to chemical leaks and other accidents with just local cops and Haz-Mat crews shutting dowm roads into or out of an area. Besides, local cops would just assume control the roads into their towns and precincts as to limit incoming or outgoing trouble.

Sure, if you know back roads and off-road paths, your chances of getting through a quarrantined area are better, but at some point the road you're on will intersect a major road where runing into a roadblock is likely. Or at least to get where you're going you'll need to hit a major road.

Tollways and Interstates are easy to shut down. Just close the ramps.

Also do not be surprised at the possibility of being shot for being out after curfew. Martial law suspends any "rights" you have now. It is a rule-by-force and threat-of-force doctrine.

Don't assume you've got a clear ride out of town. Assume they'll all be closed with roadblocks and plan to make your escape route based on that assumption if neccessary.

No Spam, - a humor booster - YES. You wouldn't happen to know if Greybear's got any more Flatulence and Home Defense ideas do you?

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 23, 1999.

1) there is almost no way to close down Cleveland Metro area. sure, you can close I-71, 77, 480, 490, 90, and OH 2. but that's no worse than the usual construction delays. There are SO MANY ways out of this city to ANYWHERE (for instance, betting to Erie is not easy but not difficult, Pymatuning lake is in the way a bit but there are several work arounds for that, then you are into PA and you go through Cory (or around if you're extremely paranoid) and you are on your way to Erie, or Buffalo). since those 6 routes are used as much for INTERNAL travel as for inter-city travel, closing them down becomes either easy, as in closed at the county line, but LOTS of off ramps and back roads, or as hard as closing just short of 100 on and off ramps.

2) We have covered the definition of Martial Law before but it included the UCMJ as the ruling law, not whatever someone wants to do.

3) "Local cops would just assume control of their towns and precincts" LOL LOL LOL count the streets and roads in or out of a given town and then the 3 or 4 if they're lucky officers!! You're killin' me!!

MY suburb has 7, count 'em 7 cars on a shift. This is about enough to close the interstates that run through town. Doesn't do the main street or streets East-West. Doesn't do the Southbound streets, and teh neighboring suburbs have the same problem. these cars are going to be much better used at quelling anything that goes on inside the town. As it is , these guys and gals are BUSY, averageing 30,000 calls a year, which for a city my size is fairly active.

the town I grew up in has 6 major streets in and out, with one highway (sorta) a mile south. 1 full time and 1 part time officer.

GO DO THE MATH!!

C

-- chuck, a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), April 23, 1999.

I think I read on G.N.'s site that we have 9000 troops for the 120 largest cities,such small numbers would seem to say martial law would be limited to damage control:be inside after dark,or be shot,looters will be shot,guns will be surrendered,any civialian with a gun will be shot,roads are closed to civialian traffic,any civilian seen driving,will be shot.simple,clean,direct,don't like it?bang.liberals and poly's will get a dose of reality soon enough

-- zoobie (zoob@aol.com), April 23, 1999.

--thanks, blue himalyan, for the headsup and here's a nice rant, more than subguns, tho)---well, here's a way to control mass populations(9mmsubguns are used for inhouse raids and quiet assassinations, mostly), it's called chemicals and viral agents, sprayed from planes. There are drugs and chemicals that can make you weak and docile. And that's just the "mild" stuff. There are devices that use sonic sounds of such and such a frequency and decibel which will make whole mobs of rioters fall down and barf their brains out. Geez loweez doesn't anyone ever even watch discovery channel and see the stuff they got that they ADMIT TO? Yes, it's totally possible to control folks on a mass scale when you use weapons of mass destruction or incapacitation on them. Not every single one, but certainly herds of them. Hasn't anyone here even ever been hit with just water from a hose cannon? Ever been tear gassed from a tear gas cannon? How many m-60's or m-249's or M-2's or flame throwers would it take to keep a whole lot of disorganized civvies turned around and heading the way you want them to go to? Especially if they have been sprayed with a bio engineered viral agent that makes them all have about the worst case of flu imaginable? That's the tactical way how to do that, and there goes that numbers advantage for the most part, especially if you are already self-herded up in the big cities. Hey Folks! Ya wanna get through this, get you and your families butt outta the big city. There, I said it. Deal with reality--if you can deal with the reality that y2k could be a major screwup, then ask yourself what the heck a despotic self serving government would do faced with the possibilities of millions and millions of pissed off hungry and desparate people. Now deal with that. What would you do if you were that government? Let that just happen, or smooth talk and minimalize and lie your way right up to some timeframe before that happened and then nip any protest in the bud? And to do that, with the resources at hand, what would be some good ways, especially if you had a track record of incinerating children alive, raining million dollar robot bombs down on people to draw attention away from your own scandals, and using the various agencies at your disposal to harass and intimidate your political enemies? Huh? Little house on the prarie-phooie--it's gonna be like kosovo HERE. Y2k is REAL, the gov is scared poopless about the consequences, it flat out knows there's no way in heck to water and feed millions and millions of suddenly without anything people. Just ask yourself the questions, look around at what's going on, and you can get some inklings of "what might be". O-h-h-h-h zog, I just can't do that, it's to-o-o-o-o scary--well, that's the same thing DGI's go through in their brains just thinking about "doing without" all the modern conveniences crap regardings y2k- so they go into denial, and grasp at any drivel from official PR guys as "proof" it's gonna be OK. So it is with all denial. Ya, it's real funny laffin about "black helicopters" until you been under attack by one. It's so easy to imagine nuthin bad can happen-well-just because- we're americans dad gummit, besides, we signed the geneva convention outlawing chemical warfare, right, and the gov just wouldn't do THAT. Well, tell it to the parents of the kids gunned down at jackson state or kent state by "someones father or uncle". Tell it to all the vets who were lied to about agent orange(gee-planes spraying chemicals that hurt people over many square miles? never happen). Tell it to all the vets that are sick with whatever the heck is wrong with them from desert storm. Here boy, we need that oil so take this shot here and this shot here and don't you worry about no deee-pllleeeted you- raneeeum being sprayed around, nope. The list is long. I invite anyone to look up the laws allowing "testing" on the civvie population. And the track record of bigbro.org when it comes to getting his way. Bigbro does what he wants to, that's it. And bigbro got a heap of things nastier than you can imagine. Ha!

So, anyway, I take reports on the stepped up manufacture and delivery of obvious urban weapons pretty seriously, especially if there's some more back up. Anyone wants to, go down to the fed "agent" training facility in southwest jawjah and take a gander at the numbers of "agents' being run through there, and look at the published numbers and monies spent and timeframe. And then think about all those "refugees" that we're gonna take care of, first in gitmo bay, now into the mainland. tip of the iceberg stuff. Where do you "hide" thousands of troops who would have no compunction of mowing down folks who don't even speak the same language? Answer is in plain sight, and who the heck would care if it was found out anyway, that's just wild black helicopter conspiracy stuff, so it just CAN'T be true!

-- zog (zog@avana.net), April 23, 1999.

Oh ... just tell the AAA trip planner that you want to stay off main highways entirely. Make 'em earn your dues.

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), April 24, 1999.