Re: Littleton, didn't Hardliner predict something like this would happen?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
A few months ago, someone on this board, and I think it was Hardliner, predicted a rise in violence as 2000 approached and suggested it would be used to pass draconian gun control measures. suddenly he seems downright prescient. And wasn't Denver or Colorado about to vote on a new concealed weapons law?
-- Cash (email@example.com), April 21, 1999
If more Americans carried concealed weapons, the tragedy in Colorado could have been MINOR! We need more Americans to carry concealed weapons!
Take weapons away from Americans, then only the criminals will have weapons! This happened in Germany! They took all the weapons until only Hitler had weapons and then TSHTF!!!!
-- freddie (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 1999.
There is only one way to prevent tragedy's like in Colorado. Congress MUST pass legislation requiring ALL TEACHERS to carry concealed weapons! Once this happens, these school killings will be eliminated! It's the ONLY way to combat this problem!
-- smitty (email@example.com), April 21, 1999.
Teachers with guns gives a whole new definition to corporal punishment
-- Johnny (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 1999.
Like we don't already ask enough of our teachers, now we want them to be trained in combat. Your average female teacher wouldn't have a clue how to use a gun and would be overpowered by the average teenage boy in an instant. This situation went beyond guns; these trenchcoat mofia had a little army in their hands. I don't believe in gun control but somehow guns and schools don't belong together no matter how you slice it.
-- Maria (email@example.com), April 21, 1999.
"And wasn't Denver or Colorado about to vote on a new concealed weapons law?"
"Gun Laws Alone Won't Halt School Violence - Reno
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Attorney General Janet Reno said Wednesday that stricter gun control laws were only part of the solution to the school violence in which at least 15 people died Tuesday at a Colorado high school.
Speaking on ABC's Good Morning America, Reno said schools, churches, parents and community groups must work together to respond sooner to signs of troubled teen-agers and help them resolve their anger before they resort to deadly force.
"There is no one answer" that will end shootings and killings at U.S. schools, said Reno. "We've got to get guns out of the hands of young people. We've got to make sure they have the counseling, the support to help them come to grips with the anger of their life when it occurs."
Two heavily armed teen-agers went on a bloody rampage Tuesday, killing at least 15 people including themselves at Columbine High School in the Denver suburb of Littleton. Police said 20 others were critically wounded in the shooting spree.
The incident was one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history.
Before Tuesday, the worst school shooting in the United States took place in March 1998 in Jonesboro, Arkansas, when two boys, aged 11 and 13, allegedly shot and killed a teacher and four girls. That was one of a series of incidents at U.S. schools in which at least 14 people were killed and more than 40 wounded in less than two years.
"This is a terrible time for this nation," Reno said. "There is no one thing that can make a difference. It's going to require all of us to renew our efforts ... to reweave the fabric of community around children and give them the guidance to live constructive lives."
Tell that to the Waco children Janet.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 21, 1999.
Maria, why "your average FEMALE teacher"? I know a couple around here who have concealed-carry permits and leave their guns locked in the trunks of their cars because, of course, weapons aren't allowed on school property. Use 'em? Sure, I went to NRA classes with them and they were GOOD. Oddly enough, better shots than the men. Went long enough to classes and also occasionally for brushing up to react instinctively. When you deal with gang-bangers every day, you know not to let them near you.
-- Old Git (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 1999.
1) As Mrs Driver was listening to the news yesterday afternoon, shew flashed back to a presentation at one of our inservices given by a Doc from LIFEFLIGHT who happens to be one of the working experts on Mass-casualty events. He indicated at the time (Oct or thereabouts) that the "next domestic terrorist event will be in a school or Mall." His timeframe was around Christmas, but so, he missed the time. He described in some detail what the Fed .gov folks were training and preparing to handle. She indicated that this situation matched in eerie detail.
I happen to trust JD (the Doc) with a LOT, and would list him at the top of the list of people I would want to be staring into my face as I came to on a stretcher. I have had the pleasure of watching his medical skills for several years. I have to trust his skills in the areas that he is passionate about and mass casualty event handling is where he lives when he isn't flying in a big Yellow Bird.
A prayer or two for him might be in order as he went onto active duty about a month ago and we don't know when he will be comming home (he's good enough and crazy enough to request assignment to the recover teams in Europe, and get it). His name is Dr. JD Polk, in case anyone runs into him.
2) Crime rate in Maine: demonstrably DOWN after enactment of carry laws.
3) Crime rate in Switzerland, arguably a well developped country, is much lower than in US. Relevance? The Swiss are, BY LAW an ARMED citizenry. They not only have the right to keep and bear arms, it is the LAW!! And the arms REQUIRED of every able bodied man AND woman under a specific age is one of the Banned 17, here in the US. Yup, ther has to be one of these assault rifles in EVERY HOME and everyone inthe home is expected to know how to use it. Kinda cuts down on the desire to break in and rob someone.
-- chuck, a Night Driver (email@example.com), April 21, 1999.
speaking as a firearms instructor, it's been my observation that women tend to make better handgunners than men for the following reasons:
1. They don't think they are 'natural's, so they actually pay attention to using proper technique and practicing regularly.
2. They have better small motor coordination in their hands and arms - I don't know if this is true regarding all women, but I've generally noticed that it's true about women I've taught to shoot.
3. Their entire ego isn't destroyed if they have a bad day at the range. If one is practicing and for whatever reasons, stress levels, exhaustion, distraction or whatever, one is not having a good day the best thing to do is pack it in and come back later. The reason for this is that bad practice results in bad technique. For some reason women understand this better than men.
just my 2 cents' worth
-- Arlin H. Adams (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 1999.
Simple solution to violence in high schools: Eliminate high schools.
High schools are horrible places at best. If you don't "fit in" you're teased mercilessly, at a time in your life when you're most vulnerable to such crap. Teen agers are full of hormones, but given nothing physical to do besides meaningless sports. Thrown together with the (often scantily-clad) opposite sex daily, but forbidden to do anything about it. Given orders by adults they no longer respect. Schools are more about crowd-control than teaching. No wonder kids snap. What surprises me is that more of them don't bring guns & mow down the jocks.
Get rid of high schools. Replace them with vocational schools, or some part-time job situation. Give the kids something useful to do with all that energy.
-- really (email@example.com), April 21, 1999.
Yup Arlin, wife outshoots me every time. Pretty embarrassing.
The Paducah school shooting was cut short when a teacher went out to his truck and retrieved a revolver. In Israel, terrorism against schoolchildren by the PLO is now non-existent due to teachers carrying concealed weapons.
Fear of immediate and deadly consequences is quite powerful against those seeking to do harm to others.
Suicide missions however, can only be curtailed by dealing with the ROOT cause of problems...not classifying guns as the problem. Guns are a tool used in criminal acts to physically punctuate a spiritual problem. Take your pick; rascism, jealousy, anger, self-esteem or other issues that are root causes of crime and violence.
As someone said brilliantly, "We need to fix (the heart) of our nation".
We need a return to family and value of life.
We need God, and the spiritual principles that blessed us as a people.
Without them we will all perish.
-- INVAR (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 1999.
the problem is obviously that only one or two loonies can reek so much havoc with weapons
its doesn't happen on the same scale in other Western Countries, Americans must know the reasons by now
-- dick of the dale (email@example.com), April 21, 1999.
For people who want complete and completely accurate info about the Swiss situation with firearms: Swiss Gun Thing
-- Runway Cat (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 1999.
Before I can hardly believe said what you did. I can't believe a woman would say that about all other women.
I do believe you've watched too much t.v. while the directors usually have a woman stand helplessly by although she could grab a gun while a pummeling is going on.
Maria, we all have news for you: t.v. is not reality.
It's amazing how quickly the media has convenient soundbites ready last night for gun control. And within hours, the POTC is giving a speech to expound on his political agenda.
That's tragic..."One", that grown adults do not understand that life just ain't fair and tragedies happen especially if the culture has no moral compass. "Two", that the POTC and others are trying to take political advantage of people who didn't get "one" during this very sad occurence. How coincidental is that this happened in Colorado?
-- texan (...@ranch.com), April 21, 1999.
TYPO: Before I can hardly believe said what you did.
Correction: Maria, I can hardly believe you said what you said.
-- texan (...@ranch.com), April 21, 1999.
Of local interest since the Denver shootings
Both bills concerning concealed carry being considered by the Colorado Legilature have been pulled by their sponsors. Gov Owens, who supports the concept of concealed carry thought it "was a good idea" to terminate the bills for the session in light of the recent events. I personally didn't support the bills here in CO, since they were nothing but NRA compromise garbage -- Permanent fingerprint database held by the state, criminal safezones, gov mandatory training, etc.
Another example of the triumph of emotion over reason. The demonization of guns continues even by a supposedly conservative Republican Gov. Yikes. If the Governor quit fighting for his position because of the action of two children in a state of 4 Million, what do you think he'll do oh, in seven months?
-- Jim the Window Washer (email@example.com), April 21, 1999.
(quoting Sir Richard of Dale):
its doesn't happen on the same scale in other Western Countries, Americans must know the reasons by now (close quote)
You would sure think so, wouldn't you? I have my own thoughts on the subject as does everyone else. The US is one of the most violent places on the planet,...violent child-rearing practices, institutional violence, violence for fun,...you name it, we got it. Jean Piaget was once asked during a lecture on child development, "How do children learn?" He replied holding up three fingers of one hand, one at a time,..."Example, example, example." Not a new idea,...
But golllllly,...not a lot of folks getting it here. Teens in para-military outfits with guns and bombs blitzing a building? Millions of geniuses are longing to understand.
Nice to read you, Sir Richard.
-- Donna Barthuley (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 21, 1999.