I just had a delightful conversation with an "egg expert," whose family used to have a huge flock and sold eggs to restaurants, etc.

Now that the parents have passed on, he has a small flock and sells eggs to a university lab, and sells fertilized eggs (while renting incubators) to teachers. You know--the old "watch 'em hatch in the schoolroom thing."

He told me that the eggs we buy at the grocery store taste awful compared to the fresh ones. He also said that some people keep one or two chickens in their garage and that they aren't that much trouble. With vaccinations, there's no disease, etc. The chickens lay (usually) one egg every other day.

If you're interested in learning more about this (y2k or no y2k), he said it would be o.k. to give him a call. I warned him he might get LOTS of calls. He didn't seem to mind. He gives lectures on the subject of chickens.

So--if you have a question for here's the contact info:

Dave Bilbie 2040 Warren Rd Ann Arbor, MI (734) 741-0419

(No email. He doesn't own a computer!)

Cheers!

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 17, 1999

Answers

Chickens! 1) get day old chicks by MAIL from a hatchery. Cost: about 50-80 cents. MurryMacMurry is on the web, but I don;t know the URL. Have a box with straw and a 100 watt lightbulb, water and food ready in advance. As you take each chick out, you must dip its beak in the water.You can also get older chicks from a feed store, but they will cost more. 2) As the chicks get older they will need less heat. They will smell! You have to change the bedding daily. Move them to a protected location. 3) Older chicks, with all their feathers can be housed outside. 4) If you live in a surburban area, be prepared to dispatch the roosters as soon as they begin to crow...or order all females.

Our chickens are the brown egg layers. They are in their second year, and still laying well. They take care of all the "wet garbage" from the kitchen, the garden trimmings, etc. We never have to throw food into the garbage. The hens process it for us, and give us eggs and meat to boot.

We have them in a portable house, with wheels. In the daytime, they can range around, eating whatever, and at night they get into their safe house. But you can keep a couple of hens (and rabbits too!) in a garage quite nicely.

I cannot use my real e-mail, as it brings lots of unwanted junk mail, and is also linked to my web page. sorry about that.

-- Sue (Sue@not address.com), April 17, 1999.

A portable hen house? LOL! Did you build it?

Also--do you live in a city? If so, do the neighbors complain?

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 17, 1999.

Web address for Murry McMurry is:

http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com

Prices are about $27.00 for 25 straight-run (half male/half female) mix. Around $1.50ish if you select a particular type of hens only. (Do not need rooster to get eggs). All roosters for butchering is $12.75 per 25. All prices cheaper the more you order. Minimun order is 25, so maybe you could find some one to go in with you if you wanted to order a few hens. Orders can be taken for delivery from now till October on most of the breeds.

I could handle a few e-mails about chickens. If I get alot, give me some time and I will make up a one size fits all reply. Fresh eggs are one of the BEST tasting things you have ever had. We kept chickens in the city at one time, also in a portable pen. Only problems were city kids and BB guns and flies. Extra eggs to the neighbors and keeping them clean, because chickens smell alot, should keep most neighbors happy. Zoning laws is another story...

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), April 17, 1999.

Very Important Notice:

A new product to add to your on-line y2k supplies store:

Most candles are made with a carcinogenic toxic substance: paraffin. Paraffin is the left over residue from gasoline refining. Candleworks offers a clean-burning, 100% natural solution: Long burning candles made from soybean oil grown in America's Heartland. Each candle burns 60 hours $44 for one dozen (shipping is included in price): one dozen provides 720 hours of emergency light. These candles are safe, non-toxic and burn clean without the black soot created by paraffin.

We will pay your company a commision. Phone Mike Richards at 319-337-6316

-- Mike Richards (Icanwork@aol.com), April 17, 1999.

****Mike, I was only hoping to recieve e-mail from people who where interested in chickens, really I was. I do not think you are a professional spammer, but I do think you have just made a mistake. Oh, and Mike did you know spamming is now illegal in several states? So where do I live???

Folks, my ISP/friend posted this sometime back for tutorial to track down spammers, hope you can make head or tails of it. I just mail him when I have a problem, don't know if he can help me through yahoo, but we will find out soon. xxxx's used to protect identity and some of the numbers.

Fighting SPAM - PSI responds

[Congratulations to the keyboard toting SPAM fighter who got this one. JET] *(the spammer in this instance)*

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:22:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Net Abuse Team To: xxxxxxxxx(my server) Subject: Re: BUSINESS EXPLOSION NOW!!! #nab-298117

Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Net-Abuse Team, we have currently contacted our customer and the issue is being investigated.

When submitting a complaint to PSINet, please include the subject of the spam in the subject of your e-mail.

Thank you,

PSINet Net-Abuse Team abuse@psi.com

Fighting SPAM - Lesson #2

by xxxxxxx.xxx(my server) July 16, 1998.

I got another one of those ugly little buggers in my mailbox that p*ssed me off enough today to aim my keyboard in their direction. This is how I mollified my anger. I'm using "Outlook Express" but you can adapt it easily to most other email clients.

Select the message Click File Click Properties Details Message source Control-A Control-C Close [x] OK Compose message Click in the body area Control-V

Note: The body of your message will contain the SPAM with the headers. Look for (your server) and the IP address which precedes it in brackets (in this case [293xxx.xxxx)

Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [293.xx.xx.x]) by xxxxxxxxx (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA18032 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:00:20 -0400 From: xxxxx876@hotmail.com Received: Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Subject: Are They Investigating You? Status: RO ARE YOU BEING INVESTIGATED? Has your personal and credit information been stolen? Has someone assumed your identity? ...

Now we get to continue the Unix shell lesson:

Start Run xxxxxxxx.xxxx(your address) login with user name and password traceroute a.b.c.d

This is what it looks like.

Linux Kernel 2.1.28 on an i586 login: xxxxxxx Password: Last login: Thu Jul 16 09:04:34 (the path to spam)

The computer that sent us the messages is relay2.UU.NET. Most ISPs have an alias "abuse". Those that don't have either a "root" (Unix systems) or an "administrator" (NT systems). "Postmaster" often works too. In this case we add "abuse@uu.net" to [To:] field in the new message window.

Follow the chain, the computer that sent us the message is 1Cust237.tnt7.nyc3.da.uu.net [153.37.122.237]. This computer may be a dialup, so it may or may not be one line. In this case a traceroute works

[xxxxxx@xxxx.xxx]$ traceroute xxxxxxxxx traceroute to xxxxxxx (path)

This is still UU.NET or you would add another email address to the [To:] field. In this case the chain is complete. Sometimes there are many hops. These are usually forged. Detecting forged headers is an art which I cannot explain yet. When, the IP is offline, you can enter the network address at http://www.arin.net/whois/arinwhois.html. The rule for finding the network address is:

If the first number is less than 128 use the first number - a. If the first number is less than 192 use the first and second numbers - a.b. Otherwise use the first three numbers - a.b.c.

Since the first number is not less than 128 but is less than 192 we enter 153.37. xxxx replies.

Name and address of spammer or spammers server (not sure, server I think) Netname: xxxxx Netnumber: xxxxxx Coordinator: Uunet, AlterNet - Technical Support (OA12-ARIN) help@UUNET.UU.NET +1 phone #xxxxxx Alternate Contact: xxxxxxx

For the sake of amusement, I entered one of the phone numbers in a search at http://www.dejanews.com/ which found 160 recent entries. In the power search their are 3900.

Add xxxxxxxx@xxxx.com[cc:] field. I am much more disposed to helping users fight spam that learn how to do it themselves.

Add a brief message such as

UUNET - you originated and relayed this SPAM Advise me when you have disconnected the user.

If you succeed, you are entitled to file one notch in your keyboard.

SPAM - Netcom responds

By xxxx from Netcom, July 14, 1998

[Note: this is in response to a complaint to Netcom that they relayed mail from a spammer to my mail account. It includes a lot of useful information about tracking SPAM JET]

Hello,

We have looked at the headers of the message you have forwarded to us, and determined that it didn't originate from a user here at NETCOM.

While there may be a NETCOM account name listed somewhere in the message, those accounts are forged and don't exist.

Please do not try to email the accounts mentioned in the email, as they probably do not exist.

Also, please keep in mind, that in the headers, DFW-IX*.IX.NETCOM.COM is our mail-relay server. These servers cannot originate mail, they can in some instances relay mail. However, the received-by or received-from line below the DFW line must be the originator, no matter how forged it appears to be.

We do have software installed on our servers to prevent mail relaying, however, very small quantities of relay spam do slip through sometimes. Literally thousands of attempted relays are blocked every day. To see a daily log of these attemps visit the newsgroup: news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins.

** Please note the following.

Spammers on the internet will guess at your email address. If it's easy to guess at, ie "sam@domain.com" you will get 'probe' emails. They usually state "Reply with REMOVE in the subject line to get off this list." If you follow their instructions, YOU WILL NOT BE REMOVED. Usually instead they take your now VERIFIED email address and sell it off to a premium mailing list, making money. At that point the spam in your mailbox usually will increase by a large amount. We highly recommend not replying to any spam you receive, and we also recommend that your email address be something unique, not being found in a dictionary helps.

Please also realize the importance of contacting the original domain when you receive spam. It's impossible for them to know it's happening until someone forwards them a complaint. If everyone were to ignore spam, the originating domain would never know it's happening.

The only time you should contact NETCOM in regards to spam is if you determine it originated from NETCOM. If you determine it originated elsewhere, it's important you contact that domain.

-> Here is the web site you can lookup various IP's at, to get the contact information for the domain your searching for.

http://whois.arin.net/whois/arinwhois.html

Simply enter the first three quadrents of the IP. For example, instead of 254.0.94.1, you would enter 254.0.94 without an ending period.

How do you find the originating IP? Here is a tutorial we have included below.

This is an example of spam originating from Netcom, even though it does not have the word 'netcom' anywhere in the headers. This is intended as an instruction to people who do not already know how to read headers.

** If you know how to read headers, please disregard the rest of this ** message.

This is an EXAMPLE of junk mail headers. Please do not send to any of the domains referenced. The IP numbers have been changed except the ones referencing Netcom.

** These are not the headers to the spam you sent us in your complaint.

Beginning of header.

Received: from server1.fake (server1.fake [266.0.93.1]) by server2.fake (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13218 for <>; Thu, 1 Nov 1961 21:11:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from internet.abc (server.internet.abc [266.32.0.4]) by server1.fake (8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06062 for <>; Thu, 1 Nov 1961 21:11:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from 432BRxr9q ([205.184.139.163]) by internet.abc (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA16385; Thu, 1 Nov 1961 21:54:25 -0500 (EST) From: Nowhere@Nothere Received: from login_0246.whynot.spam (mx.whynot.spam[206.0.231.0]) by whynot.spam (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA02135 for <>; Sat, 13 January 1961 01:51:22 -0700 (EDT) Date: 05 Nov 10 10:07:12 PM Message-ID: To: friends@mine Subject: Generic junk mail example Content-Type: text

End of header.

Let's start reading this from the top. Your mail server sits somewhere in the server2.fake domain. Let's see where your mail server received it from.

Received: from server1.fake (server1.fake [266.0.93.1]) by server2.fake (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13218 for <>; Thu, 1 Nov 1961 21:11:53 -0600 (CST)

You received it from server1 [266.0.93.1]. Always go by the IP number in brackets or parenthesis. Where did server1 receive it from?

Received: from internet.abc (server.internet.abc [266.32.0.4]) by server1.fake (8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06062 for <>; Thu, 1 Nov 1961 21:11:53 -0600 (CST)

This means that server1 received it from [266.32.0.4], there are tools on the web that will help you verify the name associated with the IP number.

http://whois.arin.net/whois/arinwhois.html ; Enter in the first three numbers of the IP. For example, enter 266.32.0 (If that doesn't bring anything up, try 266.32).

Let's keep going down and see if this IP was the originator or if it was relayed through them.

Received: from 432BRxr9q ([205.184.139.163]) by internet.abc (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA16385; Thu, 6 Nov 1997 21:54:25 -0500 (EST)

This means that it was relayed through internet.abc! It came from 205.184.139.163.

Now we go to one of our tools to find the name associated to that IP number.

I use arins web site on 205.184.139.163, but I take out the 163 at the end. It tells me that it originated from NETCOM.

Let's go down one more time to see if this is the originator, or if it was relayed through netcom also.

Received: from login_0246.whynot.spam (mx.whynot.spam[206.0.231.0]) by whynot.spam (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA02135 for <>; Sat, 01 January 1914 01:51:22 -0700 (EDT)

If this was a valid Received line, it would show received by netcom.com. Since it doesn't this is a FORGED header.

In this example above (NOT in your complaint): It originated at [205.184.139.163] which is from NETCOM. It was relayed through [266.32.0.4] which was internet.abc.

Remember, always go by the IP addresses in brackets or parenthesis. Never go by the From line, Reply-To line, Authenticated Sender line, or the name of the domain in the parenthesis.

We hope this tutorial can be of assitance to you.

Eric ICG NETCOM Policy Management ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ICG NETCOM Communication Services, Inc. abuse@netcom.com NETCOM Policy Management: (408) 881-3499 24 hr. 7 Days/Week 24-Hour Technical Support: (408) 881-1810 support@netcom.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), April 17, 1999.

Lilly. It is true that his post about candles does not relate to chickens and should have been its own thread. However. Your enthusiasm has just killed this thread, providing essentially more 'spam' than his one off-topic post. Nothing personal; your knowledge sounds very useful here; but kick back, you can't get so upset over little things like this or you'll spend all your time spamming the world to make your point that somebody spammed you.

Hopefully additional messages related to chicken farming, which I am interested in on a small scale, will be done in a new thread sans the country mile of text about other stuff.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 17, 1999.

PJ

I understand. He e-mailed me at home also, has he others? The lady above saying she didn't use her real e-mail for this reason. Sorry if I killed the thread over this. Certainly was not my intention. Perhaps some might find the below suggestion useful.

I sort through mountains of e-mail every day, most of it welcome, and some of it important to what I do in the community, and some important in relation to the time received, useless e-mail gets frustrating. I also believe, that the above message I wrote, re-sent out from an e-mail address reserved for that purpose only, makes alot of "up and coming" spammers think twice; and I think that is the case here don't you? I should have not posted it here, but just sent it back through that address. Again I apologize.

And PJ, if I personally where anymore laid back, I would be asleep! :-)

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), April 17, 1999.

Lordy! What's happening to this thread NOW? I'm sorry I started it!

Dave Bilbie has nothing to sell.

As for me. . .I'm going back to the rat thread.

Please let this thread die. Somebody's playing games here.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 17, 1999.

With regard to my last post--this thread momentarily went into the Twilight zone. Text, a graphic, a link.

Now--as I rechecked my above response--the weird post is gone.

What's going on here?

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 17, 1999.

FM, the rat thread too is infested with ads.
What's the deal with the sudden pictorial ads appearing at the bottom of the threads?
Is is trolldom or is Phil funding a way to develop a search engine?

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 17, 1999.

Two things are apparent. Chickens and spam. They go good together at breakfast.

For Chickens:
You can get your own incubator that will hatch 6 at a time. No big deal. Small, and very functional for a small home.We have had Buff Orpingtons and Wethingtons, both are great. The ones we have now lay 12 eggs a day. Lots to barter with and sell or use. We only have 2 roosters and 12 hens. They didn't stop over winter. Eggs every day.

Spam:
Someone who posts to a public forum with their email is in fact inviting people to respond to their email address. Same as with sending any mail with your information printed in their forms without a note saying "do not use my name and personal mail address in any other mailing campaign". It is true. If you do not notate every single piece of mail at least once to each organization that you write, they can legally sell or rent your name/address for future mailing campaigns.

Bottom line: don't use your email address if you don't want to hear from folks, especially on a public forum with thousands of readers.

In my estimation, the email sent about the parrafin was in context with the thread in a "Round about" sort of way. We ALL need to realize that we are not immune to this sort of thing, and should not try to "ruin" a business that publicly posts their intentions for all to see. The spammers we should not tolerate are the ones that hide their identity and have no valid "return addresses". Honest businesses should be given a chance, in any scenario. They are just like us. Trying to make a living.

Mr. K
***realises this position isn't popular****

-- Mr. Kennedy (looking@the.facts), April 17, 1999.