IF Y2K is a 9 - 10, I imagine it will take 10 yrs or so to get just back on our feet. I assume also that the population will be MUCH smaller....and therefore, our knowledge base will be greatly contracted as well. A large portion of our country's infrastructure will be destroyed by looters and people simply scavenging, and if we lose oil and refineries it could be a couple generations or more before manufacturing can be reestablished to the extent it is today. The children of today will hardly know or remember what life is like for us now.

I can picture myself entertaining the youngsters with stories of how it was in the "olden times" much as my parents did for me. But what a different set of stories!! I'll be telling them of travelling around the world in jet airplanes, of having VCR's, microwave ovens that cooked our dinner in mere minutes, McDonald's, electric everything, paper towels, supermarkets and malls etc. and best of all, of surfing the Net! I can see their wide eyes as they try to imagine such a world.....

Oh man! Y2K can be soooooooooooo depressing......

-- Sheila (sross@bconnex.net), April 17, 1999

Answers

On January 2, 2000, there will be a glut of woodstoves and survival gear on the market, as all the y2k idiots, suckered by all the y2k drivel, unload their survival equipment.

What you'll be telling your children is how big an imbecile you were. History repeats. Every generation thinks the world is coming to the end (read Matthew, where Jesus tells his followers that the world would end in their lifetime). Or those people who thought Halley's comet would destroy them back 80 years ago.

-- nospam (nospam@nospam.com), April 17, 1999.

Ahhhhhh, but the difference is we don't think the world is coming to an end,only that some of our superfluous toys will no longer always work.

I for one will be glad to keep on using my wood stove and be more self sufficient and not so dependent on the electric monopoly. I'll be eating the food and using the soap and toilet paper. I'll still be gardening and canning so no tools, seeds or jars to sell off.

Gee ,going down my list,I can't find anything to sell off. This will take some thought. Guess you're not going to find a good yard sale at my house, No Spam.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), April 17, 1999.

The only thing remotely wasteful I might have that would interest nospam is a 7.62. Or two. Delivered to his juvenile ass as that's where what's left of his jelly sack of a brain hangs out...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 17, 1999.

No Spam, you may be right, but I'm doing just like Sue. This has taught me a valuable lesson to be more self-sufficient. I already garden, can, use wood heat and keep extra supplies, so I'll just do more of the same.

And I'll be grateful to still have the computer and electricity, but gadgets are a pain. My dishwasher is worn out, I don't care and wouldn't replace it anyway. We don't own an electric can opener, garbage disposal, cell phone or many other gadgets and toys, so they won't be missed.

-- Jean Scott (dezane@hotmail.com), April 17, 1999.

What a fool some are. Being self-sufficient is a way to live! Y2K or not :o) The less I depend on modern things the cheaper it is to live. Not to mention the stress level going Down:o) Have a great day.

-- Gardner (Back@basics.anyway), April 17, 1999.

No spam reminds me of the time I grew up in Europe. My father was a GI concerning what Hitler had up his sleeve. He started stocking up in 1938 and 1939 and by the time Hitler attacked our country, we were well prepared and the second world war for us was only a "bump in the road"! However. like NO SPAM, all my dad's friends laughed at him when he tried to warn them and told them to stock up. NO SPAM IS A FOOL WHO WILL BE FORCED TO BEG FOR FOOD IN 2000!!!

-- smitty (smitty@sandiego.com), April 17, 1999.

On January 2, 2000, there will be a glut of woodstoves and survival gear on the
       market, as all the y2k idiots, suckered by all the y2k drivel, unload their survival
       equipment.

       -- nospam (nospam@nospam.com), April 17, 1999.

nospam and others. Please do not display your ignorance. Woodstoves are practical ways to heat living areas and not something to be considered foolish. How someone could confuse heating ones home and Y2K is beyond me. Having lived with woodstoves all my life it would seem that I have been misled and should have remained cold during all these years. Oh and having a garden,,,, wow what a leap of faith to thing that things can grow out of the ground! It is better I guess to eat all the putrid crap that is considered fast food. And a fishing rod? Can you imagine! I mean fish go and piss in the water! Yuk!

 People in Christ's time used wood to heat, had gardens to grow food, and Christ himself was a fisherman and you sir have no idea what it is like to be in a house with no heat in much of north america. There is common sense and then there is stupidity. Saying that woodstoves aren't going to be needed past Y2K is just blind stupidity. And that is not even flaming it is just the truth.

-- Brian (imager@ampsc.com), April 17, 1999.

Comment on Sheila's:

If population is "MUCH reduced", why assume that WE are the particular individuals left around to tell stories to anyone? Our preps are just a drop in the bucket if major turmoil occurs.

I would venture a hypothesis that about the best our preps get us is a Societal 9 turned into a personal 6-7, a Societal 6 turned into a 4, etc. etc. That stray bullet (or microbe) is still out there, waiting for someone; you just want to cut down the odds it's you.

As for the loss of the knowledge base (one of Infomagic's theses), I doubt that the vital knowledge rests in the _numbers_ of people we have now, because most of them are skilled only in trivial generalities or in idiotic specialties.

Those survivors with an aptitude for learning less specialized vital skills would surface most quickly, and there might be a general upgrading of career opportunities in ratio to skills offered from today's paltry level.

The precedent I'm thinking of is that after Bubonic Plague, skilled artisans were in greater demand, and better paid, all over Europe for the next century. I could use a history refresher on this, so don't quote me yet (was Barbara Tuchman the source? in A Distant Mirror?)

Anyway, the skills pool is at least PROPORTIONAL to the population in general, so the survivors would likely retain at LEAST the same proportion of the knowledge base as previously (minus a LOT of distracting Infoglut) and it might be simpler to build from there in order to return to essentials.

And, to repeat what's been said elsewhere, preparing for y2k is more about STAKES than about ODDS. A 9-10 is unlikely, but in the off- chance it happens, you'll wish that you -- and Society -- had prepared better while it was cheap and possible.

Andy, are you OK? I hadn't been around long before that incident you shared with us -- you used to quote Sufi philosophers -- I miss your gentle wisdom.....

Now out into a gentle Spring day, Day #2 after ending four years of two-job slavery....

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.com), April 17, 1999.

Very Important Notice:

A new product to add to your on-line y2k supplies store:

Most candles are made with a carcinogenic toxic substance: paraffin. Paraffin is the left over residue from gasoline refining. Candleworks offers a clean-burning, 100% natural solution: Long burning candles made from soybean oil grown in America's Heartland. Each candle burns 60 hours $44 for one dozen (shipping is included in price): one dozen provides 720 hours of emergency light. These candles are safe, non-toxic and burn clean without the black soot created by paraffin.

We will pay your company a commision. Phone Mike Richards at 319-337-6316

-- Mike Richards (Icanwork@aol.com), April 17, 1999.

Hey Andy, were you the one that always used to add that little quote to your post. "Two digits. One mechanism. The smallest mistake." I've got it taped on my computer.

You're a good guy Andy. If you're wrong, you can always get rice and beans at our house. If you're right, how about treating me to coffee ice cream.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), April 17, 1999.

Jor-el/Gilda,

Thanks - I'm dead serious about the sufi quote - I really believe it is going to happen - I dropped it for a while due to a lot of ignorance from wastrels on this forum.

I am considering re-instating it however if only to annoy the likes of y2k Prairie Dog and nospam and No Spam!

If it's a bust Gilda you got a deal!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 17, 1999.

Hey,Sheila,I know just how you feel. I wonder about the future for my family and my babies that are just starting their lives with their bright shining eyes and joyous energy. I am afraid for us all at times. Some days I am so filled with anger at the stupidos in this country, the sheeple who refuse to get anything because it may require something of them like ...thought. If I get too down, I just start prepping in some way... packing up some sugar in buckets, or get some TP on sale and this helps. Look around, its not just y2k that's getting me, it's also the complacency of the herd while Clinton is busily writing EO's and calling up the National Guard reservists that adds to a more complete funk for me somedays. Best wishes. FMC

-- Barb (fatmamacow@gomoo.com), April 17, 1999.

Sue, Brian, jor-el, Gardner: well said!

Living near a densely populated earthquake fault, I won't feel like much of a sucker for having spare batteries, dried grains, canned home-grown vegetables, extra first-aid supplies and over-the-counter drugs, an extra cord of wood... even water storage tanks, or a hand pump, or a generator, or a grain mill. Does any "Y2K prep" vanish in a puff of smoke if it's not needed on 1/1/2000 ?!
Even precious metals aren't exactly going to become worthless, are they? And tell me once again - what's the downside of fleeing the city and living in a cabin in the hills !? :}

-- Grrr (grrr@grrr.net), April 19, 1999.