A question for the Christians who are preparing...greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Why should Christians prepare? Won't God help those who rely on Jesus? I'm a Christian myself and I'm very confused about if preparing for the Y2K is what God desires. Won't preparing for the Y2k show a lack of faith in God? I GI about the potential of the Y2K problem... it could be so severe people could lose lives. Everytime I tell my Christian friends we should prepare for the Y2K they said I have so little faith in God. They say I should always be in peace and not worry about worldy things. They say we should be more concerned about spreading the Gospel not Y2K. They say if we die because of this, we'll be with God, what's there to lose... How can I justify preparing?
-- (email@example.com), April 16, 1999
Amen. But you forgot religious people can rationalize anything. You might as well ask about vaccines, seatbelts, smoke detector or life insurance.
By the way if there is only a handful of us left, I get to be the one to declare religious belief to be a mental disorder. God be with you!
-- I'm Still (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
Joseph prepared during the 7 years of plenty for the 7 years of famine. If he would not have many would have died. If God allows you to see coming trouble then you are stupid not to prepare. He's not Santa Claus.
-- Moore Dinty moore (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
As I mentioned in an earlier topic, many protestant Christians are pre-trib or post-tribs. I do not see this y2k though as THE tribulation. As a Dominion Presbyterian-Reformed organist (like G. North...GASP!) ths is NOT the end of the WORLD as some translate the Bible passages, but the end (perhaps) of the age. To prepare as Joseph did for the seven years of famine does not denote fear or lack of faith, but love for our families and neighbors.
-- churchorganist (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
If you read your Bible, you will find that Jesus not only provided spiritual food, but He provided literal food to the hungry as well. Will you do any less?
In David Wilkerson's (Pastor- Times Square- New York City) newest book he says, "The Holy Spirit has directed our ministry to offer some basic guidelines on how to prepare for a potential Y2K crisis or any related economic problems that might follow. Such crises could involve food shortages, electrical blackouts or possibly even riots. We recognize that, as people of God who trust fully in his promises to provide for us in such crises, we are not to approach such times with fear. However, we believe we're to be prepared to respond to all crises in ways that are godly, practical and a witness for the gospel. The scriptures make it clear that preparation for an emergency does not negate trust in God but rather reinforces it."
-- Gayla Dunbar (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
Being a Christian does not mean to go with blind eyes through life. It does not mean to count on others because you did not do your share. God gives YOU the responsibility to care for yourself, for your Soul AND body. Suicide is against Christian ( and other religious) believes and not preparing even tho you have all the pointers to the possible severety of Y2k is at a minimum attempted suicide.
-- rickjohn (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
'By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family.' - Hebrew 11:7
-- Timothy Costello (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
Your "Christian" friends are scripturally ignorant.
God tells us that if we do not work, we do not eat. Jesus told us to use our talents and to bear fruit. Spiritually and physically. He also told us to watch the signs of the times and take heed to not be caught unawares. (I'm not going to list scripture, use a concordance to find the passages I'm quoting).
God instructs us to provide for our wives and children. He instructs us to protect them.
Have you thought that perhaps reading and understanding the "signs" of these times, and preparing for them - is stepping out on faith and HAVING faith that God opened your eyes to heed a warning that He provided to you?
If you took your freind's arguments at face value, if your house was afire and you broke the windows to get out - you have little faith in God, because you didn't rely on Him to rescue you. That's simply ludicrous! God is a practical God.
If you are not to worry about worldly things at all, ask why your friends have cars, a job, or chow in the fridge. Should they not wait for the Almighty to rain it down from above?
The argument about if we die, what's to lose, you just shoot to "heaven" is a joke. Why don't they euthanize themselves to get to "heaven" quickly and without any suffering if that be their goal?
Use the logic God gave you.
The popular "Christian" Health/Wealth gospel is a fraud. The Apostle Paul stated that "Faith without works is dead". You have to ACT on faith, not sit idly by waiting for it to protect you and your family while the rest of the "heathen" and unfaithful suffer.
And there will be suffering. Perhaps on a massive scale.
Jesus instructed His followers to "Pray always that you may be worthy to escape these things".
But do not fall into the trap of wrongly assuming that "Christians" will not suffer through the tribulation Y2K may bring. The tribulation is Satan's wrath on God's people, whether Y2K is a trigger or not.
Be wise. Justify preparing because that is the prudent thing to do. Take the parable of the bridesmaids and the oil. Apply it to Y2K and go in prayer while preparing.
-- INVAR (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
And then was played by John Voight in an NBC mini-series. Go figure. 8-}]
-- Mac (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
,...and with the final peg made of gopher wood hammered in, the ark at last was done. A lot of carpentry there.
-- Donna Barthuley (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
Unfortunately, I lack the talent of many of my Protestant friends for quoting the new and old Testament. I think there is encouragement for those who prepare in scripture. Yet such passages may be interpretted to refer to preparing oneself spiritually. If you are a Protestant, you might read essays by Joseph Foreman at http://www.y2kchaos.com. I think there is also a specifically Christian forum by a Pastor Chris, but I don't know the URL. Perhaps, someone else will paste it here for our benefit. As a Christian, I do believe preparations are prudent for myself and my family. If you believe God would like you to go about the people and preach like Saint Francis of Assi or many of the other wandering saints and missionaries, make sure this is the will of God. I don't envy such a calling, but I would do it if God calls me to it. But, probably not without some muttering under my breath.
I believe that God does provide for us. He gives us wonderful gifts including reason and faith. He gives us many things and, most likely, according to our true needs and for the true purposes He intends us. Now your true needs may be satisfied by manna, but you may want an iced cold bottle of beer and a ballpark hot dog to go with the manna. And His purpose that he intends you may be walking barefoot among the towns and cities proclaiming the glory, love, and mercy of God. But it might be nice to have a pair of walking shoes and a back pack loaded with a sleeping bag. However ungrateful it may seem to some, it is not necessarily evil that you'd like to enjoy these kind of things. But I don't know how God feels about this... I do recommend that you pray.
At one time in my life I was considering becoming a priest and in a contemplative order. It felt right at the time, but I followed the advice of my spiritual director to wait patiently for a true calling and it didn't come. Or I missed it completely! In the mean time, I did what I had to do, went to work, did some more school, paid bills, and tried to make intelligent decisions about the future-- whatever it would be. Pray frequently, avoid evil, do good, and make your Y2K preparations... you can always walk away from the supplies or give them to those who need them (they'll be there with or without Y2K).
Sincerely, Stan Faryna
-- Stan Faryna (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
Personally, I feel the core teaching of Jesus is to love thy neighbor. Compare the "turn the other cheek" approach to "an eye for eye" of the Old Testament (Tora). The Christian goal is much like the Eastern religion's goal of aquiring "good Karma".
It is my view that everything else (the parables, Revelations, etc.) was written by early Christians long after the death of Jesus the Christ.
I don't think the basic teachings of Jesus say anything about whether or not we should prepare - his teachings focused on our relationship with "God" and each other.
-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), April 16, 1999.
Thank you, dear hearts for your encouraging words. It's really hard to get by when everyone I talk to about Y2K thinks I'm crazy. It's even harder when fellow Christian friends say I should repent for lacking in faith. Somehow, deep inside I felt preparing is what God wanted us to do... The controversy was tearing me apart because the way they quote the scriptures, it seemed like I was faithless. Thank you for your messages. They helped me to keep my heart on track for preparing. If anyone could provide some scriptures I would appreciate it very much. Perhaps with them, I could get my friends who don't understand why they need to prepare (survive) to prepare.
-- skimmiks (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
God provides for the birds but He doesn't throw the worms in their nest for them. If every Christian felt that God would literally put food on our tables and pay the bills for us, then why would anyone of us go to work everyday?? God will provide a way for us to have the things that we need but I don't think for one minute He expects us to sit back and do nothing for ourselves and our families. Just my 2 cents worth.
-- Rose (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
Remember the verse from Matthew when Jesus says don't be anxious for tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself? And how God takes care of the birds, so surely He will take care of us? There's nothing in there that says don't make preparations. His message is do not worry. Every one of us, including your chastizing friends, spends a lot of his or her time making preparations for various things. When someone singles out one particular issue and pretends that preparations in that area indicate a lack of faith, they are showing a lack of integrity. Anyone who thinks God wouldn't let bad things happen to good people has never paid attention to the Bible or to world history.
-- Bill Byars (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
PROVERBS 22:3 A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge. but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
-- Moore Dinty moore (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
Are you sure you are a christian?
If so you would remember David a a lot of other fellows and women who was much closer to God than anyone here.
I know they were because that is the lesson thats given today. Plant and grow and eat. Work and eat. Prepare and eat.
Everything is given to live. If you don't prepare for something you have in a sense commited suicide yourself. He won't do it all for you.
He just sees that you get the message. From there on the balls in your park to do as you please.
-- Lon (Lon1937@aol.com), April 16, 1999.
Having studied the Bible for almost 30 years, I find nothing in it which contradict preparing for the rainy day. In fact, Proverbs has much to sayn about learning from the anys which store food for the winter. It also says to avoid evil (trouble) if you see it coming.
Often in biblical & secular history, before God allowed a disaster to hit, He would give warnings to His people. Examples include Nineveh, Sodom, the cultural revolution, Nazi Germany, Pompei & many other examples. Those who heeded the warnings were preserved. Ask your friends if they buy fire or quake insurance. Ask whether they expected their home to be destroyed by such elements? Isn't paying hundreds of dollars every year wasteful if not a sign of lack of faith? Why should we be criticized for preparing for Y2K, which is more likely to disrupt our lives than a fire or quake will destroy our homes? Some christians are so heavenly-minded that they are of no earthly good!
-- Raymond Kwong (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
You guys are providing some really great feedback for Skimmiks. Very much in context. Very much balanced. Good to read and to heed. Thanks for all your encouragement.
And thanks Skimmiks for posing this important question.
Noah must have had a similar feeling of isolation even as he attended to building that ark. It took him 100 years you know. The prophets often stood alone.
Faith is being responsive to God's initiation and word to us. This applies both to the scripture and to the word the Holy Spirit brings to us. God has been speaking to people about the coming trouble. You, Skimmiks are one of many whose heart is soft to hear and to respond to His word to you.
Prepare to share. We do this as a pratical love expression. Whatever any of us can do will help so many. Its a great opportunity to love.
-- David (C.D@I.N), April 16, 1999.
I agree with INVAR (and the rest). Gary North (practically a curse word to some) says that when Christians say "God will provide for me" they really mean "YOU will provide for me." Sad but true. Also remember the foolish and wise virgins. The wise ones had extra oil and the foolish ones were chastised (in the story) for not being prepared.
Unfortunately, to many Chridtians are caught up in the materialism of this age, and will be CRUSHED when anything takes away their "right" to comfort and ease. They cannot even get off the couch to collect the good things God has prepared for us.
If God tells someone NOT to prepare (I suppose its possible), fine, I have NO quarrel with them ---- but that person, if truly listening to God, would not then go around telling others that THEY shouldn't prepare.
My trust is in God, not the food/other items, but we should wisely USE the "talents" (as in parable of talents) God has given us.
-- Jon Johnson (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
I have to echo the sentiment of the previous poster. Although I am Christian, and I should share my stuff with my "brother", I fear that several Christian friends are simply (I think) planning on converging on my place in the country if infomagic is a pollyanna. It is irritating to me when I have gone without all luxuries and any convenience items to spare the cash to make my preparations, and they are driving new vehicles and his wife is buying 400.00 purses.
Along the same lines,I asked my sister (a liberal DGI) what would happen if the power simply went out for a couple weeks, and her answer was: I would just take my family to someone's house who HAS power, and we would just stay there.
So, there are just 2 kinds of entitlement mentality, the Christian, and the non.
This leaves me with dread that I will have my whole neighborhood expecting me to feed them and their families when TSHTF. I hope to avoid this whole scene. They will have a big surprise when they find out I bugged already.
Now I have to go make another batch of bread.......
-- nobody (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
Ask your friends why Jesus' parents fled to Egypt for three years. Didn't they trust God to take care of them there in Palestine, after all they were the parents of the Savior! And why did God instruct Nehemiah and Ezra to reconstruct the walls of Jerusalem? Why not just trust God to defend them?
Ask your friends if they lock their doors when they go out? Ask them if they have a pension? Ask them if they buy warranties?
Then tell them they are committing the sin of presumption. It is the sin that the devil tempted Christ to commit in the wilderness. After showing the devil that He was going to trust God to provide for Him, the devil then said, 'if you trust God so much then jump off this building for God said He would send angels to watch over you.' Jesus replied, "You should not put the Lord your God to the test."
Many of these people who say they are trusting God are presuming on God and planning to put Him to the test. They will be in for a surprise. I plan to help the poor and children not those I have warned. Sorry, I can't feed the world. I will seek God's wisdom in that day.
Did you ever hear the story about the man who was warned by the police that the river was rising and everyone should take cover? He refused. He told the police God would watch over him. When the water began to enter his house, the police came in a boat and told him to get in, but again he refused and said, God would not let him down. Finally, the man had to climb out on his roof because the water was so high. The police came by in a copter (not a black one) and told him to get in but the man was sure God would take care of him so again he refused. Soon after, the house collapsed and the man drowned. When he reached the pearlies he asked his angel why God didn't provide safety for him in the flood. The angel looked at him and said, What else did you want Him to do? He sent you a boat and a helicopter.
-- BB (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
Above all, you cannot listen to what I or anyone else here says. You must pray about this & read the Bible. With that said here are some verses for you:
The prudent sees danger and hides himself, the naive proceed & pay the penalty.
Proverbs 27:12 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The word prepare is mentioned 208 times in the Bible. When Jesus said He would prepare us a place in Heaven, was He showing a lack of faith in God the Father by preparing ? (John 14:2) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The wise man plans and saves for the future, but the foolish person squanders what he has.
Proverbs 21:20 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Don't forget Joseph who interpreted Pharoh's dream about the famine: Genesis 41:35-36 --- "Then let them gather up the food of these good years that are coming and store up the grain for food under cities of Pharoh's authority, and let them guard it.
And let the food become as a reserve for the land for the seven years of famine which will occur in the land of Egypt, so that the land may not perish during a famine.
41:49----Thus Joseph stored up grain in great abundance like the sand of the sea, until he stopped measuring it for it was beyond measure.
God warned Noah of coming destruction, and gave him detailed instructions for survival. He did not drop an ark out of the sky when it started to rain. (Genesis 6-9)
Also we are expected to provide for our families:
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever.
1 Timothy 5:8 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The idea IMO is that we do not put our faith in our preparations thus being idolitors. We prepare because it is prudent and wise. We put our faith in God. When Christ was tempted by Satan:
Then the devil took Him into the holy city; and he had him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and he said to Him, if you are the Son of God throw yourself down for it is written,
"He will give His angels charge over You and on their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike Your foot against a stone."
Jesus said to him, "On the otherhand it is written, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test'".
My point being, God can provide anything & accomplish any miracle, but if we are forwarned and choose not to take any action, is that not putting our God to the test?
-- Deborah (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
This will not be the end of the world, however, in light of Kossova, the weather, the new world order and other things coming together at the same time, it can't help but be obvious that we are nearing that season even though we wont know the exact time. The better each of us are prepared personally, the better we will be prepared to help our fellow human beings. Have a nice evening.
-- cw (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
Skimmik: Here's what I find in the space for "Location" when I'm on Pastor Chris' forum:
Boy, what a mouthful! I'm so computer illiterate that I don't even know what to call this except for the address. There's not as much activity on that forum but perhaps the 'mood' is more what you are looking for. In Christ, Linda
-- newbiebutnodummy (Linda@home.com), April 16, 1999.
Whoops! Looks like I cross posted with a few of you, sorry for the repeats. I also didn't proofread....what a mess!
It is actually somewhat reassuring to see that so many of us are in the same page, so to speak (no pun intended). ;-)
-- Deborah (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
Briefly implied above is the biblical parable of the five wise bridesmaids. That's what came to mind here. There were ten bridesmaids waiting. It was dark. They were all burning oil lamps. Five of them fell asleep. The other five stayed awake, went to the oil merchant, bought more oil, and continued waiting. Just as the bridegroom arrived, the five sleeping bridesmaids woke up and noticed they were running out of oil. They asked the five wise bridesmaids to share theirs. They answered that they were unable to share because they had none to spare.
This parable tells us we must stay awake, stock up on necessities, and not be guilt-tripped into giving them to those who slumbered. "You snooze, you lose."
Mentioned was foregoing luxuries this year in order to prepare, whilst watching Others zoom past in their new, gas-guzzling SUVs, I am "mad at that". What I mean is, yeah, it's weird. They are in blissful ignorance. But next year will be so much worse for them! Why I have the grace to GI and they don't is a puzzle to me. Oh well, I can see now that in my life before I GI, I squandered time and squandered money hand over fist. Not anymore. That, in and of itself, makes me a better person.
-- Someday Maybe (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
I am a new GI, so to speek. I have become aware very late in the season. I dont know why I hadn't heard anything about Y2K but I hadn't My pastor started talking about it on a small scale in his minstery. THANK GOD!!!! I started reading and reading.... Now I am fully aware. I have people in my church that dont get it. I pray and cry for them. This has ben good for me personaly, because it has changed me. It has made me to see how messed up my priorities were. I have cleaned house (spiritaly and physically) The movies I used to watch,I dont watch any more. I dont have the time. Some of the things I worked so hard for, dont really mean that much to me anymore, I put them in a local auction. I look at my children in a different way, I include them in my work insted of sending them off to play. I am blessed. I dont think you should get in theological disagreements with your Christian friends. Prepare for your self and as much for them as you can. Tell them what you think if they ask. But people are not going to see if they dont want to. Pray for them. God has a way to bring people around. Your friends will come around, maybe not soon enough. I believe God has opened up a few eyes to see clearly. My husband has not seen the vision I have, but he respects me. He is willing to do whatever that is needed if I think this is something to be conserned about. He is digging in a root celler and we bought an extra beef cow to have on hand, just in case we have many more people to feed than we now think. I am not telling everyone, come on out we will have a big party and you can stay at my house for a month or two.... but if times get really hard, people will remember. I will keep you and your friends in my thoughts and prayers.
-- Trena (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
Matt 25:1-13 1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to ten maidens who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them; 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.' 7 Then all those maidens rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 But the wise replied, 'Perhaps there will not be enough for us and for you; go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.' 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut. 11 Afterward the other maidens came also, saying, 'Lord, lord, open to us.' 12 But he replied, 'Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour."
-- J.H. (email@example.com), April 16, 1999.
I'm a christian and I think I will stop working so God can take care of me! Duh!!!!
-- smitty (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 1999.
Just did a study on that particular chapter last week, re: the ten virgins and their oil. The consensus was that the *oil* represents the Holy Spirit and that on the day that the Lord returns, if one is not saved, hence being indwelled with the Holy Spirit, then Jesus will not claim them. We know not the day or hour of His return.
Having said that, being prepared IS the meaning of this parable. Just that it means being prepared to meet Jesus. This is a far greater need then I think even Christians are really willing to see. So much easier to tell people to stash extra tuna and toilet paper then to tell them that the Lord is returning and that need to be ready.
And I'm in total agreement that those that tell others that they have no faith when they prepare for Y2K is terrible. I can't imagine the reason why other then it makes them look unprepared if others are preparing.
What a wonderful, encouraging thread this has been!!
-- pamela (email@example.com), April 17, 1999.
Skimmiks, your friends are blind and loving every minute of it. Is there anything sadder than someone who cowers behind the name of God? Your 'Christian' friends are not only hiding from their responsibility as beings capable of reason, they are trying to coerce you into joining them with their heads in the sand.
In their minds, 'God will provide' = no problems to deal with and 'If I die, I'll be with God' = no problems to deal with. What they and most other ostriches fail to see is that the interval between being alive and 'being with Jesus' can be a very long, agonizingly painful eternity where the only thing they hear may be their own screaming, or moaning for lack of energy to scream. Starvation, disease and the likes of Ted Bundy and Charles Ng take their sweet time in sending you on your way to the pearly gates.
Faith is a wonderful thing because it can keep us going when we would have otherwise given up long ago. But the notion that 'good Christians' are somehow immune from suffering, pain, torture, rape or muder is not only foolish, but it is an insult to God.
-- A.P. (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 17, 1999.
The important thing is to take this opportunity to kill the heretics and secular humanists.
Read Dueteronomy 13. It is quite explicit. Wives, children and extended family of those who oppose YAHWAH must be exterminated. It says so right there. We, as Christians, must follow the inerrant word of GOD, as expressed in the BIBLE.
I intend to follow the Bible come y2k. My guns are ready. I have a list of those who have sinned against YAHWAH. They will soon be with Lucifer, safely dead.
-- nospam (email@example.com), April 17, 1999.
nospam, I think you only read the first portion of your Bible. Try reading the whole thing.
-- Gayla Dunbar (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 17, 1999.
Not that you need another response to this post... However I think Joyce Meyer had the best quote from someone. They said the two stupidest things you can do about Y2K: 1. NOT TO PREPARE and 2. TRUST IN YOUR PREPARATON.
-- Patricia (email@example.com), April 17, 1999.
God sayeth: "Trust in me, not in material things." So, all you Christians can stop worrying, stop stocking up, be happy.
-- A (A@AisA.com), April 17, 1999.
This has bothered me for some time about preparing for others. God told Noah to prepare and the people ridiculed him. For over a hundred years he was that crazy man down the street building a boat because water was gonna fallfrom the sky and flood the earth(it didn't rain back then). Anyway then god shut the doors to the ark and it began to rain, right? and there was gnashing of teeth and people begging to get in but Noah didn't/couldn't let anyone in. So why do we have to prepare for modern day DGIs ? Seems to me if they don't heed the warning thats their business, I hate being laughed at by fellow christians over this y2k thing. Oh well I've been wrestling with that noah thing and maybe someone has some good words for me, finished my bagel time to go turkey hunting wake up boys.
-- R A (R A@wildcats.com), April 17, 1999.
God has all ready taken care of you. He gave you a brain that can reason and think. Use it, and pray.
-- SCOTTY (BLehman202@aol.com), April 17, 1999.
I'm usually a big talker on the forum, but can't think of anything useful to add except "thank you" for all the insights. Any non-Christians browsing here, don't pay any attention to "no spam". It's either trolling or insanity, not the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), April 17, 1999.
Let us not assume that God asks all Christians to respond exactly the same way.
Just like other believers vote for candidates I don't, put their children in schools I can't and spend their money on things I wouldn't doesn't mean they aren't obeying God. It is our responsibility to obey what He tells US--not what He tells THEM. I'm cautioned against judging another's servant.
The paralells to salvation are striking. I can tell people about original sin, the wages of it being death and Jesus's taking my place but I cannot make them GI. That's between them and God. My responsibility is to tell them.
So it is with Y2K--I feel that it's my responsibility to tell them there is a need to prepare. To give them some tools to prepare. They must take it from there. It is only by God's grace that I Got It. Some of us are called to be leaders. Naturally, we will have gotten it before the others. We shouldn't berate them because they are followers--even laggers. Where is the grace in that?
So---each of us must do just what The Father requires US to do. No more or no less. It is only He that knows the big picture. It is only HE that is in control. In that I find much rest and peace during this very anxious time.
-- kay (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 17, 1999.
After reading this thread it has confirm in my heart just how good God is. My christian brothers and sisters on this thread may God bless you and your household. And to those who read this thread and don't know or have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. All you have to do is as the Lord to come into your heart and ask the Lord to forgive you for your sins. Thank him for giving his life for us on the cross, and now sitting on the right hand of the father. Peace beyond all understand will come to you when you open your heart to the Lord and ask him to be your Lord and savoiur. Just think on all the times that you called it luck when you were not harmed and was snatched from the jaws of death. Now who do you think was responsible for that. The Lord Jesus. give him credit for what he has done in your life. He knows your name and where you live. That is how much he cares for you. And had you been the only person in the world he would have die on the cross just for you, matter of fact he did just that. God bless every one.
-- Lyn Truss (StormieLyn@webtv.com), April 17, 1999.
Type in: http://www.ccci.org/laws
-- BB (email@example.com), April 17, 1999.
I presented a 20 minute Y2k talk, in February, at an evening Bible Study. One person out of the 12 in attendance thanked me for a heart felt message. None asked for all the "helpful" literature I wished to share. (Scriptural and Material Preparedness) I was disappointed but..just as we are called to witness, plant the seed, spread the word...we must remember the Holy Spirit does the opening of hearts and minds. Keep it up fellow planters.
-- kim (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 17, 1999.
A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it. Prov. 22:3
May Gods Will Be Done
-- flierdude (email@example.com), April 17, 1999.
Very Important Notice:
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-- Mike Richards (Icanwork@aol.com), April 17, 1999.
good point, we should remember not to judge those people who are not quite *there* yet. The only reason I sleep at night is because I trust God to do the follow up work. All I have to do is plant the seeds. Anything else is God's responsibility. That small detail is Crucial for all of us to remember.
(is this the candle department or the lamp oil department? heh heh)
-- pamela (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 17, 1999.
My christian friends find this topic too intense to talk very long. Perhaps it's me. When you have a lot of questions and things you've learned over the last week sometimes you can go on and on without realizing it. They just roll their eyes and patronize the y2ker. I find the same responses in my spiritual life and sharing, also. People don't really want to know. Many christians don't really want to talk beyond what is "politically correct" in the church sense. Be patient with them...they just don't get it. Keep close to the LORD, prepare the best you can, because in the end, you answer only to HIM.
-- carol eubank (email@example.com), April 17, 1999.
you said It's even harder when fellow Christian friends say I should repent for lacking in faith. Somehow, deep inside I felt preparing is what God wanted us to do... The controversy was tearing me apart because the way they quote the scriptures, it seemed like I was faithless. -- skimmiks
The truth is that we have choices, thanks to Adam and Eve. We can now choose to be prepared, to battle on Gods behalf, and be in the best of his will. That may not be what we want, but it is what we have to do.
Now, would you friends think that is was stupid or "unChristian" to have a job? Well, won't God provide? Why not just go along without a job? It all is in the scheme of things, and God will provide, as long as we do for ourselves as he instructs us to, in the Bible.
***working for God***
-- Mr. Kennedy (y2kPCfixes@MotivatedSeller.com), April 17, 1999.
What's quite interesting is that the instruction is repeated verbatim in Proverbs 27:12. I take that to be the words of a parent: when they repeat the command to you word-for-word, you better listen!
(and if you hear your entire name, including your middle name, duck! 8-})
-- Mac (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 18, 1999.
This is very interesting, as a thread. I appreciate everyone's postings because many are really insightful.
I remember as a kid, in response to someone saying God would give you Faith to survive bad times, my father once responded, "God gave you a BRAIN so you could PREPARE or AVOID bad times." He's not religious btw. But I thought that was a great quote and it well applies here.
I grew up a Christian but am not any longer. (Actually I got so far from Christianity that I have kind of arrived there again from the opposite direction, bizarrely enough, though with a set of very innate beliefs that would have to be referred to as 'Christian Mysticism' or some such thing.) Anyway.
Now I'm in the unenviable position of planning to fairly soon go have a long talk with the preachers in each of my local churches. We have about one church per 120 people in my tiny little town of 1100. All are basically conservative Christian (southern baptist, church of christ, etc.).
Assuming I can get them to avoid the save- your-soul thing for the time it takes me to actually present my Y2K info, I'm troubled that if I really present it how I interpret it -- which is optimistic in attitude yet really dismal in preparatory-expectation -- that I must just set some of these guys off on the truly conservative path to the Four Horsemen or what have you.
No, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm serious -- you cannot take a person who truly believes that times of tribulation, prophecies of Daniel, the second coming, the rapture, yada yada yada, are going to happen ANY MOMENT NOW, and then tell them that by the way, much of civilization might just collapse and much of the world (though hopefully only "parts" of ours) could be plunged into darkness, and not have them "get it" to the degree that they correlate it with everything they already believe.
I want them to know about it, I want them to get their congregations motivated to prepare for it, for themselves, and so that between all the churches, maybe our little town can actually get fed -- I do NOT want to be the only with food!! But I don't know how to present it to the Conservative Preachers without them either ignoring me or figuring it's no big deal, if I'm subtle or upbeat, or freaking out (like I almost did when I first 'got it') in such a way that it actually harms them in some way.
I don't want to send anybody spiraling into fear. I know that due to existing belief systems, some people might be more prone to that than others.
If any of you have advice on how to approach conservative ministers about Y2K education for themselves and their congregation, I would great appreciate the insight the people on this thread have to provide.
What's kind of funny is, I used to know a guy, decades ago, who was convinced that computers were the modern version of the antichrist and would eventually fail mankind and they would realize their need for God. Wherever he is right now, he must feel pretty justified. :-)
PJ in TX
-- PJ Gaenir (email@example.com), April 18, 1999.
I agree with Bill Byars way, way above that as a Christian *you shouldn't worry* - God will take care of you. By the way, Pope John Paul's favorite point is that Jesus said "Do not be afraid" so often.
"A" in his sarcasm accidentally got it right. The most important aspect of overcoming post 1/1/2000 problems is getting right with the Lord. I recommend reading the New Testament for a half hour every night. I get a lot of good ideas that way.
As "A" suggested, idol worship won't save you. Your well-being does not depend upon having every widget sold by the preparation people. Just as St. Paul preached against the hoop-jumping of the Pharisees, I suggest that faith in the Lord, rather than a this-world checklist, will provide us peace and happiness. But just as St. Paul did not criticize circumcision and fasting, I do not criticize purchasing preparation products. I do a little bit every week. I recommend it!
-- GA Russell (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 20, 1999.
if a christian-knows a #7 killer tornado is coming'& they,re in the direct-path. should they'go into a safer-place? or get a lawn-chair -sit in front-yard' a watch-it kill them. gimmee a break.not -preping. for worldwide disaster-is-a-no-brainer. JESUS asked to borrow a boat, a-colt who knows what else. why didn,t he just miracle-them?? DIDN,T GOD say don,t tempt-him?? what is the spirit-saying.?
-- al-d. (email@example.com), June 22, 1999.
This is a wonderful thread! (I hope I used that correctly.)
I hope this doesn't cause this thread to be terminated, but PLEASE check out:
It has so much information that applies to what everyone has addressed here, that I believe it will be of value to all of you.
-- Connie Iversen (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 06, 1999.