(Gov.) Nuclear war??

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I've been reading a lot about the possibility of WWIII. I believe it will happen, but don't you think that Russia/China or whoever would think a lot more than twice about dropping bombs all over the US? It would not only cause this land to be unusable for years to come, but would put so much radiation into the atmosphere that it would wipe out populations all over the world, the leaders included.

-- winna (??@??.com), April 16, 1999


Not really.


Nuclear War Survival, Chapter 1

-- De (dealton@concentric.net), April 16, 1999.

It partially depends on their perception of the counter-attack. Since the Liar in Chief has eliminated "launch on warning", our ICBMs and bombers could conceivably be eliminated with regular nukes, and "bunker-buster" bombs. That leaves our subs.

Our subs are always deployed, but 1) they need to get close to a target before firing and 2) related to Y2K, we gave the Russians our rather sophisticated underwater maps (indicating current flows) so our subs have no advantage. Further, our subs are badly outnumbered.

Don't worry, though. The Dow set a record every day this week, and Slick's ratings are quite high.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), April 16, 1999.

Don't forget the rapist in chief has removed the sub-captains power to launch a counterattack without authorization. Anybody know any quick ways to learn chinese?

-- I am (ready@for.ww3), April 16, 1999.

I say any country who has nuclear weapons has already gotten past the point of not thinking. You mention Russia/China but remember we're the only ones who have used them in war.

-- Tonto (Tonto@silver.com), April 16, 1999.

I know I can survive Y2K, I Know I can not survive a Nuclear War. For me that is scarey.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), April 16, 1999.

Dear Winna & thinkican,

I hate to rain on your parade but your assumptions about the nature of a nuclear war are way off base. I will assume that your knowledge of nuclear war is based on Hollywood movies, TV shows, TV news, popular magazines, and other mass media misinformation.

If you choose to read technical discriptions of nuclear war from specialist books and publications you will find that what you see in movies and TV are just a scriptwriter's fantasies.

The blast and radiation effects are much less drastic than the mass media's impression. In many movies what is described is literally impossible.

Unfortunately, this reduces the hazards of going nuclear and makes it more likely that somebody will.

If you wish to educate yourself on the facts rather than the myths I suggest you try these.

http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger and then


I think you will be amazed at how you've been lied to all your life.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), April 16, 1999.

If there are only two ELF transmitters which can reach the subs, the US can be eliminated.

Question: Can the earth support life in the USSR (oh yeah, Russia) and China if the US is "terminated"?

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), April 16, 1999.

Gee - you don't think the CinC has started the war in Kosovo knowing the Russians wouldn't stand for it and would get involved so that would give him the excuse for us to bomb the Ruskies first and make Clinton Chief of the World? And all before Y2K too. Ain't life a great adventure? And second guessing Bill C a real mental exercise for people of moral character.

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), April 16, 1999.


I think you better check your facts. I know that they use more than two ... and hey ... they fly around in circles. If you think that there isn't someone aboard a sub that can by-pass the launch code to start the bomb... you are dead wrong.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), April 16, 1999.

Anonymous99, Don't listen to kap. Check out VLF as that is how the communications are done to the subs. How do I know... let's just say that I am within 5 miles from where the birds are stationed, and my life mate does this for a living. Go check the Navy web sites and look at the missions of some of the planes. Specially ones that begin with an E for the type... as in E6A. There ya go... research.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), April 16, 1999.

--do I think there will be a nuclear ww3-yes, too many details to go into. --we have a triad defense now, based on the premise of MAD(always thought that was funny, btw)-but it's mostly been eliminated by the cinc ninc com poop and the other various traitors and corporate money appeasers. Not their fault, they were born that way and not breast fed................... anyway: --bombers and landbased are too vulnerable-toast. We and the russkys both have illegal space based nukes-maybe toast, who knows on secret kinetic, proximity, or directed energy weapons there. Russia has 12,000 ABM missiles, and we have some few lame patriot missiles--their's don't have to be accurate, just close-nuke warheads. But that's ok--the ceo's and generals and politicians all have mansions and limos--that ought to show them darn rooshians we mean business! --our third leg, please any .nav types correct me on this, only has the ability to launch one weapon at a time, then it's position becomes known. It's stealthy "cover" is blown. Even at top speed then, while it cannot launch another weapon, it couldn't get outside of the 50 mile radius underwater before a subsurface large sub buster nuke would effect it, thereby greatly degrading any retaliatory response(by sinking the boomer). I also think, but am not privy to, the supposed data of that only one launch per roughly 1/2 hour time frame is possible. That I'll admit I'm not sure of, the others I'm fairly sure of. We also have a dismal self defense/civil defense set up compared to russky land or chinaville. --we have gotten into some SERIOUS hotwater with our "defense" lately- real serious. Nyquist,Smith,Skousen all have excellent books and articles on this--very sobering reading.

-- zog (zog@avana.net), April 16, 1999.


I think (but am not very positive on this) that there are four on any sub at one time in a more or less locked and loaded status. So given that, I think they could pop all four out before they would have to worry about reload. Can they all go at once? That is the question. Pretty sure they have some "pre-programmed" destinations in as well, that can be changed on the fly.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), April 16, 1999.

The usual bunch of morons on this thread.

The same bunch that really really misses the Cold War. Gave them something to hate. Now they're in a funk and inventing fantasies.

I was in Russia last fall. If you think Russia is going to attack, you're an idiot. They are in a shambles. They can't even defeat the Chechens, much less the US. I know, I know, you wish the USSR was still around. Well, they're not.

The big danger is accidental launch. This is why Clinton, very wisely, took us off hair-trigger.

Btw, our subs aren't "outnumbered". Russia currently can only keep two subs at a time in water.

Find something else to worry about, you right-wing imbeciles.

-- nospam (nospam@nospam.com), April 17, 1999.

The other nospam is dead wrong.

LONDON AND WASHINGTON -- Bill Clinton's use of NATO forces to bomb Yugoslavia could trigger global war.

Over the weekend, Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji hinted that the crisis in Kosovo could lead to a world war. At the same time, Russia -- a long-time ally of the Serbs -- has begun a large-scale mobilization of its military forces.

While NATO countries are engaging in military operations, not one Western country is mobilizing for a larger war, as is Russia.


NATO's soporific reaction to Russia's mobilization should also be viewed, not in the context of the Yugoslavia bombing, but in the broader context of the new China-Russia relationship -- one that has dramatically altered the balance of power in the world.

In November 1998, Russia and China officially formed a "strategic partnership." According to the official Chinese news agency, this partnership is meant to challenge the "perceived global dominance of the U.S." In plain English, the primary enemy Russia and China plan to fight is the United States and its allies.

Together, Russia and China have the world's most powerful military, including over 30,000 nuclear weapons, armies of 6 million men with hundreds of battle-ready combat divisions, and thousands of tanks. Their new alliance should have rung warning bells throughout the world. Instead the Western media, Clinton and other Western leaders have ignored it, continuing to insist that Russia and China are our "friends."


In recent months, Russia and China have jointly demilitarized their 2,500-mile border. Three hundred Russian combat units were withdrawn from the Chinese frontier. A similar number of Chinese units were withdrawn.

China has also been rapidly building up its ballistic missile forces opposite Taiwan -- forces that could be used against the U.S. military in the Far East. An attack against Taiwan could come at any time. Carl Ford of the Heritage Foundation, testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on March 25, said that the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) has changed its military strategy from one of a slowly-developed assault and blockade against Taiwan, to "more intense, quick-hitting attacks using ballistic missiles."

For many years, Russian military theory has held that ballistic missile weapons can be used to accelerate attacks, allowing for rapid victories over powerful opponents. The Chinese missile buildup together with its shift in military strategy suggests that China's generals have fallen under the spell of Russian military theory.

At the same time, the Russian units moved off the Chinese border are now free to threaten Europe.

As the NATO bombing began, Russia talked of moving heavy bombers and tactical nuclear weapons into Belarus, the traditional invasion route from Russia to Europe.

Still, NATO is oblivious to the tremendous shift in the global balance of power caused by the new Russia-China military alliance.


There are strong indications that the Russia-China alliance also includes other sworn enemies of the West, including the North Korean military dictatorship. During the Korean War, tens of thousands of Chinese troops fought against the US in support of the North Korean dictatorship, and China continues to be North Korea's principal ally. It is virtually unthinkable that the North Koreans would launch a new war against South Korea or the West without Chinese approval and support.

In the past year, North Korea has become increasingly bellicose, repeatedly threatening to launch nuclear weapons against US cities if we interfere with their activities on the Korean peninsula. In just the last month, Korea has also deployed a new three-stage missile capable of hitting most US cities.

A major obstacle in any war launched by North Korea is America's ally, Japan. According to the nationally circulated Japanese newspaper Sankei, on March 23, North Korea used a naval diversion to cover the insertion "dozens" of special operations commandos into Japan. According to unidentified sources, these North Korean infiltrators are trained in the sabotage of trains, bridges, and communications.

Such a move by the North Koreans could mean that an attack by North Korea against the South is imminent.


The bulk of front-line American combat troops are now dispersed abroad. As the Balkans conflict escalates even further with the likely introduction of NATO ground forces, the West is ill prepared to defend South Korea, Taiwan, or even America.

The NATO blitz against Yugoslavia is already sapping U.S. military strength needed in the Middle East to check Saddam Hussein. If war were to intensify in the Balkans, or if war broke out in Korea, with our current commitment in Iraq, America doesn't have the resources to cope.

The logic of this is apparent to our enemies, and could well be exploited to inflict a major defeat on American forces in one or two hot spots simultaneously.

Still, the main threat to America is Russia, which now has more nuclear weapons than every other nation on earth combined.

For the past three months NewsMax.com has been sounding the alarm about growing war preparations against the West by a new Russia/China axis. The very timing of the Russian-Chinese alliance -- when U.S. forces are at a low -- is extremely ominous.

But the establishment media has ignored this story. Now NATO's attack against Yugoslavia has provoked bitter condemnation from Russia and China and the military threat is apparent for all to see.


As we reported in Newsmax.com four months ago, before it would be politically possible for the Russians to launch a war against the West, the Russian people would first have to be psychologically prepared for war. Clinton's war on Yugoslavia has provided precisely the stimulus needed to create massive war hysteria among the Russian people.

Just last Thursday, hundreds of furious Russian demonstrators marched through Moscow calling for Russia to go to war against NATO. One banner said: "It's time to bomb the military bases of the United States." That banner becomes much more ominous when you realize that the demonstration was either sponsored by the Russian government or at least had its tacit approval.

Equally ominous was the singling out of US military bases, the first strike target in any war against the West, essential for destroying America's retaliatory nuclear capability.


The sentiment expressed by Russian war protesters isn't just the opinion of a few extremists. A recent opinion survey found that in the wake NATO bombing of their traditional allies, the Serbs, an incredible 64% of all Russians now believe that NATO intends to attack Russia.

Russian officials have also issued increasingly ominous pronouncements against America and the West. Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov spoke of "new tasks" for Russia's military. Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev likened the crisis to "a whirlpool which is drawing more countries into it." Former Russian Premier Gorbachev said, "Clinton has managed to single-handedly revive the Cold War."


Obsessed with the carnage in Kosovo, NATO appears to be oblivious to the fact Russia has been engaging in a massive military mobilization.

In the two weeks since NATO launched their offensive against Yugoslavia:

The Russian Defense Ministry began an enlarged draft, calling up 168,776 men from the ages of 18 to 27.

Recruited over 60,000 Russian "volunteers" to fight NATO troops in Serbia. On 6 April the first Russian volunteers arrived in the Serbian town of Novi Sad.

Threatened to move tactical nuclear weapons and heavy bombers forward into Belarus -- Russia's highway to NATO.

Dispatched key elements of their Northern fleet, including the aircraft cruiser, Admiral Kuznetsov, and the newly commissioned Peter the Great, the largest ballistic missile cruiser ever built. Vice Admiral Popov, commander of the Northern Fleet told Itar-Tass, the Northern Fleet is "ready to fulfill any order of the supreme command to defend the interests of Russia."

The Northern Fleet has more ballistic missile submarines than the entire U.S. Navy.

On 30 March, Russia sent a battle group of over twenty warships to sea from its Pacific Fleet. Included in the fleet were ground forces from Russia's Far Eastern Military District.

Russia dispatched ships from the Black Sea Fleet -- including a missile cruiser, two anti-submarine warfare frigates, and support ships. A Russian reconnaissance ship has already entered the Mediterranean.

Russian TV displayed pictures of ballistic missiles being loaded on cruisers in the Black Sea.

Russia announced the successful launch of a ballistic missile during exercises of its Northern fleet. Despite these clear war preparations, Russian news agencies continue to repeat the Big Lie that Russia has no plans to get involved in military action in Yugoslavian war.

If that's true, why all of the war preparations? How have the supposedly "economically desperate" Russians been able to mobilize so many naval ships and combat troops men so quickly?


Russia's growing preparation for war during the Kosovo crisis suggests a massive pattern of deception, which is being ignored by the clueless Western media and Clinton. This pattern of deception is just the most recent and blatant example of how Russia has been talking peace while preparing for war against the West. How else do you explain this behavior from a friend and ally of America:

Russia continues to maintain the world's largest arsenal of nuclear weapons -- over 30,000 -- the overwhelming majority targeted against the West.

During the past two years, Russia has engaged in several mock nuclear war exercises against the United States. These exercises have included the use of rockets as well as naval and airborne forces to wipe America from the map.

For the past 18 months, Russia has been moving its nuclear weapons onto naval ships. Naval ships are considered to be less vulnerable to retaliation in a nuclear war.

This past December, Russia's Strategic Rocket Forces deployed a regiment of state-of-the-art Topol-M missiles targeted against the West. These missiles are now rolling off Russian production lines and are more sophisticated than anything in America's arsenal.

In January, Russia put is nuclear forces--strategic rockets, naval and air--under a unified command -- essential for a coordinated first strike against the West.

Russia appears to be hoarding food, fuel, gold, and other commodities -- an essential preparation for a major war. Despite claims of poverty and famine, Russia is stockpiling millions of tons of food and urging its people to buy gold. It is interesting to note that the Kosovo crisis began just as the last shipments of billions of dollars of Western food aid reached Russia.

Russia has built the world's largest network of fallout shelters -- complete underground cities, some as large as Washington, DC. WAR PREPARATIONS IN RUSSIA HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS

In order to mobilize their people against the West, and prepare them for the destruction it will bring, Russian leaders know that they must create massive hatred of the West.

The first step occurred during the summer of 1998 when Russia defaulted on their foreign loans resulting in massive bank and business failures, bread lines throughout the country, and incredible suffering.

On the face of it, it made no sense for the Russian government to default, since just weeks before the default, the IMF had given Moscow some $5 billion in new foreign aid. (According to the Wall Street Journal, these funds mysteriously "disappeared into the offshore accounts of Russia's oligarchy.")

Why would any regime in its right mind subject their own people to such massive suffering when they had the resources to prevent it?

The likely answer: Russia's leaders knew that "evil Western capitalists" -- not themselves -- would be blamed. Indeed, as a result of the 1998 Russian economic meltdown, millions of Russians demanded that communism be restored and corrupt Jewish tycoons be sent packing. The Russian economic meltdown, quite possibly engineered by Moscow, was in effect a bloodless coup that did more than any other single event to revive hatred of capitalism, anti- Semitism, and again set Russia on the path of tyranny and confrontation with the West.


With Russia's economy in shambles, Russian leaders should have been preoccupied with domestic problems. Instead, the primary focus of Russia's energies and resources has been creating a new Soviet Empire.

Last November, China and Russia announced a new global alliance. Their intelligence services now share information. Their high commands have organized cooperative working groups.

The new Russian-Chinese Alliance represents the greatest shift in the balance of power since World War II, yet the Western press has virtually ignored it.

Chinese leaders speak more and more openly about war with the West. In January Chinese President Jiang Zemin told the People's Liberation Army to get ready for two things: First, nuclear world war; and second, to suppress uprisings inside China.


In Russia, the government doesn't have to worry about uprisings. Thanks to Bill Clinton's bombing campaign in Yugoslavia, the Russians have rallied to the Kremlin.

Consider what Clinton has done: For the first time in its history, NATO has attacked a sovereign state, in direct violation of the NATO Charter which forbids an offensive war against other countries.

The result of that attack, encouraged by the American leadership, may well be the collapse of the NATO alliance and the end of American leadership in Western Europe, particularly in Italy and Greece. At the very least, Clinton's use of NATO as an offensive tool of war, has shifted public opinion against the U.S. in Russia, Eastern Europe, and much of the Third World.

Understandably, since both Russia and Serbia are Slavic nations with strong historical, religious and cultural ties, there is real anger among the Russian populace against the NATO bombing. After all, how would Americans feel if Russia bombed London because of the strife in Northern Ireland? Or if Russia bombed Canada or Mexico? NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia proves to the average Russian that NATO is an offensive military organization whose ultimate aim is the destruction of Russia -- which is what they have been told by their leaders for generations.


The present Russian anger over the NATO bombing is, as Izvestia called it, a "royal gift" to the communists and Kremlin insiders -- some of whom have publicly advocated war with the West. There is growing pressure on even moderate Russian leaders to take "some action" against NATO to restore Russia's glory and pride.

Russia's Duma passed a resolution 366-4 that declares that NATO "aggression" is "a threat to Russia's national security" and called on the Russian government to begin war mobilization. Russia's foreign secretary Igor Ivanov said while Russia had no immediate military plans, it was "holding extreme measures in reserve."

As the Christian Science Monitor reports, Russian nationalists now repeat a mantra, "What is happening in Serbia today, will happen in Russia tomorrow."

Itar-Tass reports that leading Russia intellectuals have formed a new movement called "Against World War III" to combat growing war hysteria in Russia.


Colonel Stanislav Lunev, the highest-ranking GRU officer ever to defect from Russia, has stated that the Russian General Staff considers nuclear war with America to be inevitable.

Lunev writes, "I spent thirty years preparing for war against America. Not a war against China. Not a war against Europe. A war against America."

In an interesting footnote, almost immediately after the NATO bombing campaign began, Russia canceled its cooperation with America on the Y2K computer virus. This cooperation is vital as the year 2000 rapidly approaches, and by rejecting U.S. help suggests the Russians have other plans and have no intention of ever opening up its defense systems to outside technicians -- unlike the US under Clinton, which has allowed Russian and Chinese military agents to roam our top- secret defense labs virtually at will.


As conservative commentator, Lwellen Rockwell, points out, Clinton's foreign policy can be summarized by a single word: Bombs!

Clinton's popularity dips and he bombs Iraq. Ken Starr issues a report recommending that Clinton be impeached, and he bombs Sudan and Afghanistan. The Senate prepares to vote on impeachment charges, and Clinton again bombs Iraq. Chinagate -- Clinton's cynical selling of US military secrets in exchange for campaign contributions -- threatens to break in the popular press, and Clinton bombs Yugoslavia.

As in the movie, "Wag the Dog," whenever Clinton gets in trouble, he bombs someone to distract attention from his own scandals and crimes. Clinton's foreign policy reads like a script for a Hollywood B film.

Personal and political scandals have enveloped Bill Clinton's presidency since his first days in office. Just months after becoming president, he launched a bloody attack on the Branch Davidians in Waco, which ended with the immolation of some 80 innocent men, women and children. He blatantly used the military to "wag the dog" on the eve of the Senate impeachment vote with a cynical bombing of Iraq.

Those who claim that with impeachment behind him, Clinton has no real reason to wag the dog by bombing Yugoslavia, are dead wrong. Supreme egotist that he is, Clinton is consumed with remaining popular and securing his place in history -- both of which are threatened by continuing public attention to previous and newly revealed scandals, like Chinagate. Some of those scandals could even have legally devastating consequences for Clinton and Hillary personally, after his presidency ends.

The Lewinsky scandal continues to percolate, and Monica has been on a high profile book tour. Now a new and very a serious rape allegation hangs over Clinton's head -- and there could be more such allegations forthcoming. New revelations come out almost daily about Clinton's treasonous aid to the Chinese war machine, in exchange for campaign contributions.

Despite Clinton's claims to the contrary, no vital U.S. interests are at stake in Kosovo, and no NATO member have been attacked by Serbia. In fact, by attacking Yugoslavia, Clinton has created precisely the outrages he claimed he was acting to prevent:

Mass murder of Albanian Serbs,

Shoring up the power of the tyrant Milosevic,

Destabilizing surrounding countries,

Expanding the war -- with the introduction of Russian "volunteers"-- beyond Yugoslavia,

Weakening NATO,

Killing of innocent men, women and children in Yugoslavia.

Not to mention the flirtation with global war. By wagging the dog with a very hot war in Europe, Clinton has managed -- for now -- to bury growing accusations of treason against him. Clinton may go down in history as the first US President willing to risk -- or cause -- global war to ensure his own popularity.


The Russian people view the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia as almost a direct attack on their nation. American refusals to allow Russia to broker a peaceful settlement have lead to further Russian war hysteria.

As the American-lead assault began, the Russian Prime Minister, Yevgeny Primakov, an old line KGB general, came to Belgrade and hours later had a peace deal. Waving a scrap of paper in his hand he flew to Munich to meet with German Chancellor Schroeder. Germany is NATO's most important continental member. Germany and NATO rejected the offer. Russia, the peacemaker, was rebuffed by the Americans, the aggressors. So hostility grew in Russia.

Clinton's bombing of Yugoslavia encourages the most violent, extreme and anti-American factions in Russia. Russia's ailing leader and erstwhile US-friend, Boris Yeltsin, faces his own impeachment vote on April 15th. He too desperately needs to wag the dog to distract attention from his own failures. His status weakened by NATO bombing, only after agreeing to oppose NATO and draft troops for Yugoslavia did Yeltsin partially recover his standing in the polls.


Russian war preparations continue to accelerate.

When the Yugoslav crisis erupted, we were told that Russia's major fleets were going out to sea. A coincidence, the West was told. It has long been theorized that if Russia ever wanted to attack America, it would steer its ballistic missile submarines underneath its surface ships on their way to sea, making it difficult for U.S. sonar to detect the submarine deployment.

Once deployed, the submarines can sink to the bottom of the Atlantic and Pacific, where the can stay for months, quietly waiting for orders from the high command.

Convenience is joined by luck. Russia supposedly has no oil for its ships, one spokesman says. But miraculously, there's suddenly enough oil for its major fleets to engage in extensive maneuvers.

The Russians must have noted that their deployment causes no alarm from the West. After all, Russia is so weak it couldn't harm a fly -- so the thinking goes. Russian spokesmen continually insist they have no plans to engage NATO militarily, but every action suggests a progressive mobilization for war.

So the Russians will continue mobilizing and gaining the advantage as America and the West sleeps. In Russia, hundreds of thousands of troops are called up. It will only take three months for the full conventional weight of the old Soviet Army to be resurrected. It will have five times as many soldiers as the American army.

Russia "has no intention of interfering in the current conflict around Yugoslavia," a government spokesman told Interfax. Meanwhile, Russia's leaders continually talk of war. They hint, they threaten and they mobilize for it.

And good Republicans like Henry Kissinger, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeane Kirkpatrick and Senator McCain, are actually calling for American ground troops to be sent into Serbia. Those calling for a ground force in Yugoslavia -- estimated to be at least 200,000 soldiers -- are not considering the implications of such a move if a global war does break out. The NATO ground force would be vulnerable to a tactical nuclear strike and easily cut-off from supply lines. Moreover, the continental U.S. would have no significant force to defend itself from invasion by China or Russia.

Such considerations and precautions are not being considered because it is party time in the West. The Dow Jones rises past 10,000 as NATO bombs. The price of gold drops. People still plan their trips to Disney World instead of worrying about the nation's vulnerability to Russia's nuclear weapons.

There is no way to be certain if Russia will actually attack the United States, and there is one alternative plausible explanation of their actions: They may be getting ready for one big blackmail attempt, hopeful that Clinton will buckle under.

Instead of war, Russia could be preparing for global domination.

Byquist and ruddy.

Nyquist fills in the details on the Art Bell show last week...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 17, 1999.

The problem with nukes is, how many do you send up? Is five or six enough? Or do we send them all? If they all go, so do we. Don't worry, be happy.

-- SCOTTY (BLehman202@aol.com), April 17, 1999.

They don't look at it that way Smitty.

The fools on both sides, all sides, believe that it is poossible to wage a nuclear war with accaeptable collateral civilian deaths - in Russia's case one scenario would have them losing 5-7% of their population in a surprise attack on the USA.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 17, 1999.

Sorry, Scotty.

The Nyquist/Ruddy piece can be found on www.sightings.com

nyquist, skousen, lunev can be heard on www.artbell.com

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 17, 1999.

And then factor in the Islamic Nations.

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), April 17, 1999.

Everything I've read has said that we still have a launch on warning policy, in spite of potential y2k problems with the early warning system. If anyone has documentation that this has changed I'd like to see it.

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), April 17, 1999.

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