What does y2k have to do with Kosovo? This!

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Y'all remember news of the upcoming May 9, 1999 National Guard Communications test, and various states' notices that the Guard will be placed on alert domestically on New Year's eve?

Read on. . .


Clinton Likely To Call in Reserves

By LAURA MYERS .c The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Clinton is expected to call up military reserves to support a major buildup of NATO air power as strikes against Yugoslavia target more Serb troops hunkered down in Kosovo, U.S. officials say.


The Pentagon is preparing to add 300 warplanes to NATO's air forces at the request of the NATO commander, Army Gen. Wesley Clark. Now, nearly 500 U.S. aircraft and 200 allied planes are involved. Cohen is expected soon to approve deploying all or most of the 300 American aircraft, defense officials said.

The U.S. reinforcements, which could include A-10 ``tank killers'' as well as F-15 and F-16 jet-fighters, would boost NATO's ability to attack ground troops, artillery and air defense sites. More refueling tankers will keep planes in the air longer.


Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said NATO aircraft are flying day and night now, but Clark ``would like to fly more intensively ... to basically apply more pressure. A lot of what he's asking for will be targeted against units operating in Kosovo.''

The extra air power likely would require calling up military reservists, Bacon said, although he didn't know how many would be needed or when it might happen.

Several hundred Air National Guard members already are participating as volunteers in addition to about 22,000 active-duty U.S. forces involved in NATO operations.

Many Air Force refueling aircraft are operated by members of the Air National Guard. Nine Air Guard refueling wings from nine states are now participating in the NATO missions with KC-135 refueling units from five Air Force Reserve wings in five states.


The Army also may need to mobilize National Guard and Reserve members as part of Task Force Hawk, the contingent of Apache attack helicopters and surface-to-surface missiles being assembled in Albania to hit Serb tanks and armored forces in Kosovo.


This is a story to watch.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 14, 1999


I don't plan to fight in kosovo myself. If fact, even if I'm drafted, I WILL NOT GO!! I would almost rather fight for the serbs...but not quite... I know that under no ccircomstances will I fight in the treasonous actions in kosovo. I will leave the country first... By the way, what countries are not in NATO??? Just wondering, and worrying?? "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst." I'm keeping that in mind...

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), April 14, 1999.

So what was that link to get a supply of potassium iodine? I know it ran in the past month.....

Bulk order anyone?

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), April 14, 1999.

What does Y2K have to do with Kosovo?

Interesting this. The imagination could run wild contemplating how this war could/will spread, turning into a European-wide conflagration, possibly going nuclear. At any rate, in Y2K terms all the ingredients are there for a real Infomagic scenario. Now, I live about a 3 hour plane journey from the front line, or a day or so driving. In fact if I cycle a kilometre or so I can meet and speak with the first wave of Kosovo refugees arriving in my home country. Over the past few years we absorbed about 30,000 refugees from the wars in Croatia and Bosnia. They are still here, getting on with their lives as best they can. (Incidentally, in population terms, it translated into the equivalent of the US absorbing around quarter of a million destitute people over a period of 3-4 months. This was in addition to the regular influx of refugees and immigrants from other parts of the world.) So to a greater or lesser degree TEOTWAWKI has come for a lot of people over here, and those of us who have escaped its clutches have nevertheless had to live in close proximity to it.

Now this is Europe, it's par for the course, sad to say. As an ex Marine, I myself have participated in two active service deployments over the last twenty years in Europe. We've had terrorism, wars and god knows what igniting all over the place for my entire life. And yet I remain psychologically untouched and unscarred by it, despite on occasion bearing witness to it. What is it that alarms you Americans so much about Y2K? You live in a country that has no living memory of war within the national boundaries. Terrorism is a TV spectator sport rather than something anyone likely to experience on home territory. Because the US is able to project its influence throughout the world, you think you are actually involved and can smell the combat. In reality war and suffering has always been a distant mediated experience for the current generation of US citizens. Even, I suspect for the majority, urban crime, fear of the underclass, is mediated for most of you through docudramas, LA Cops and such like. Even the military, post Vietnam ...the US must be the only country that has a military policy based on avoiding any casualties within its own ranks.

The point of this is that maybe there is some truth to the claim that Y2K (the human bit, not the technical bit) is a US phenomenom. Maybe it is a symptom, well noted by sociologists and psychologists in other contexts, that the privileged, the cossetted, are the ones most likely to exagerrate the dangers and the most likely to panic. I don't think this is true of the US generally, but it might have some relevance to the most prosperous and privileged - and where might one find them overrepresented?

-- Tickle (Tickle_yer_fancy@hotmail.com), April 14, 1999.

Crono said:

"I know that under no ccircomstances will I fight in the treasonous actions in kosovo."

But I'll bet you fault Clinton for making this same decision over Vietnam.

-- a (a@a.a), April 14, 1999.


I appreciate your post very much. I've also been struck by the lack of interest in what is happening overseas and the lack of a desire to even understand it by the populous here. They go about their lives as if nothing has changed and danger is a whole other world away. Personally, I don't think they understand how close this war is coming to us. I don't think most appreciate the situation we find ourselves in right now.

It's incredibly surreal to drive down the streets in Southern California and see all the SUV's and expensive luxury cars, the cell phones, the "suits" doing business as usual, the lack of fear of any strike against us.

However, I don't think anyone should miscalculate the will of the American people to react in overwhelming fashion if this surreal, "me" lifestyle is threatened by any outside force.

Regarding Y2k being a U.S. phenom... well, we are the most technology dependent country in the world. It makes sense that we'd panic a bit if our world suffers through disruptions. That, in essence, is TEOTWAWKI. That statement alone shows how disconnected we are to the real suffering felt elsewhere in the world.

Tickle, with your experience as a Marine in the European Theater, how would you expect NATO to continue if this action fails in Yougoslavia? What is your feeling as to the stability of Western Europe if NATO falters? I'd really appreciate your take regarding this.

Hey a- great point, even though right now it seems as if the Prez is in way over his head. I sure hope he didn't use up all of his luck trying to survive scandal.

Mike ====================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), April 14, 1999.

,...and so it goes,

"Our chiefs are killed. . . .The old men are all dead. . . .The little children are freezing to death. My people, some of them have run away to the hills and have no blankets, no food. No one knows where they are, perhaps freezing to death. . . .Hear me, my chiefs. My heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands I will fight no more forever." ~ Chief Joseph (To the Nez Perce tribe after surrender to General Miles, battle of Bear Paw Mountains, Montana, 1877)

"Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out...and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel....And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for 'the universal brotherhood of man'---with his mouth." ~ Mark Twain, What is Man? 1906

The more things change, it seems, the more they stay the same.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), April 14, 1999.

"If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man's life, sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostilities." ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), April 14, 1999.


I'm still trying to figure out how Y2K has anything to do with Kosovo, your basic premise in your headline. As far as I can see you don'nt tie the two together in your linkage to the national guard. Are you trying to say that the national guard will be used in Y2K? Please clarify.

-- Watcher (anon@anon.com), April 14, 1999.

Yes, a, I do. But unlike Clinton, I never plan to become president, and humiliate my country, and then send people into harm's way to protect me and my TRATOR friends!! That's the difference, in case you couldn't see it!!!!!!!

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), April 14, 1999.

In answer to a question above, it's potassium iodide. You can find info and the product at http://www.anbex.com/.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 14, 1999.

BIG difference in Clinton/Nam than Crono/Kosovo, a.

'Nam was INITIALLY intervened to stop the spread of communism and to hold China in check.

Kosovo has NO such American interests.

Kosovo is all about getting the China Espionage scandal off the front page and securing an honorable legacy for king Clinton as "Savior of the Moslem Downtrodden".

I can hear it now: Clinton made the world SAFE for Socialism.

But refusing to serve in king Clinton's forces to save his legacy is FAR more honorable than going to RUSSIA after dodging the draft, and then PROTEST our country in Moscow, which is what billy jeff did. THAT alone is treason.

I know, I know....depends on what the definition of Treason is.

I side with your decision Crono. Stand firm and do not shrink. We have a tyrant in office that would assume we spill our blood for HIS honor. Something HE wouldn't even do for the entire nation.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 14, 1999.

INVAR, you and Crono are hypocrites. Your weasel words have no substance. If you don't like it in the United States, I suggest you look for greener pastures.

This is not a perfect country, but its still the leader of the free world.

Clinton is not a perfect human being, but neither are you and I.

You are looking at the world through polarized glasses. Things are more complicated than you know, or can know. Your obsession with proving that Clinton is a Hitler and Grand Master of the NWO is making this forum look like a loony bin.

-- a (a@a.a), April 14, 1999.


Y2K, Kosovo, Terrorism, Food Supply, Presidential Decision Directives, National Guard, etc. -- it is all interrelated. (Yes, there are already announced plans in some states to call out the Guard for Y2K).

I keep feeling like we're seeing world "snippets" of how Y2K impacts could effect (affect?) the world. Lots of puzzle pieces.

What I find strange is a few years ago the Christian Croation Serbs had the same thing done to them, that the Muslim Kosovar's are now experiencing. (Karmic?) Most the Muslims, and many of the Islam followers ... HATE the US. And now we're supporting them, when we choose not to do the same for others. Why? Are there "other" agendas here?

War is plain hell. Period. So is terrorism.

Y2K repercussions, in some areas, may "feel" like war and may lead to it, for many different reasons. Each uniquely local.

How will each of us respond? At home?


-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), April 14, 1999.


It has to do with the potential (worst case scenario) of large numbers of our National Guard having to be in many places at the same time.

I don't know how many soldiers are in the National Guard. I don't know whether or how many will be sent to the Balkans. I don't know what will happen after 1/1/2000.

I do know the Guard is preparing to respond if things go bad here in the U.S. after New Year's eve.

Details at: http://www.ngaus.org/ngmag/main199.htm


-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 14, 1999.

@ -a simple correction. If you're going to discuss the New World Order and Klinton's role in it, lets get the facts straight. Klinton is not a Hitler or a master of the NWO, he is a puppet and straw man of same. He so much as admitted this on a recent trip out of the country (to Ireland, I believe?) He is enjoying his status of leader of the free world with all of it's perks. No more, no less.

-- (mass@delusions.com), April 14, 1999.

Fuck-off a.

My words have plenty of substance. They mirror the Writings of the Founders. A two-bit Leftist assholes like yourself however, couldn't comprehend that.

Liberal-Socialist pieces of shit like you have spent the last 35 years DESTROYING our Constitution and the Priciples of Freedom our nation was founded upon. Many American Servicemen shed blood fighting Socialists like you on the battlefield - and in this war of ideology, I too will not shrink from that battle- calling you what you are: Socialist Misfits bent on making this nation into what it was NEVER intended.

My powder is dry, and you sir are nothing but a spoiled-bratty- elitist-idiot that doesn't understand history or reality. Either that or you are a DELIBERATE enemy of the Constitution as it PLAINLY reads, not how it is presently interpreted.

I have not moved. The nation under Clinton has moved away from patriotism, duty, honor, truth and service - ALL THINGS THAT YOUR KING LOATHES. I just assume stand my ground and DEFEAT your immoral ideology.

Your king is a liar. He is an adulterer. He is a rapist. He is an abuser of women. An obstructor of justice. A comtemptuous maligner. A traitor. A political expediator. An evil politician.

His whole political life is nothing but spin.

He sold our nation's security down the river for his own political viability.

Should we spill our blood just to serve HIS place in history, AFTER he rendered us practically defenseless!?

But to answer a few of your points:

No we aren't a perfect nation. No nation is perfect under God.

But leader of the free world under Clinton is laughable. I'm sure China, N. Korea, Iran, Iraq and other enemy states just quiver at the sound of our name. In six years we went from a respected and feared noble nation to a nation of whiners, cry-babies and litigators selling our security to the highest bidder.

Your ideological leadership has sold us down the river to annihilation.

You are more than right your king 'aint perfect, and neither am I. But I'm NOT president!!!! I judge your king by his fruits. I listed them above. Re-read them. He has no honor, and deserves none either.

And lastly, poloarized glasses? Now who's the hypocrite? Who LOVES to point out our differences? Hmmmmm? But to your point about absolutes: you idiot Socialists LOVE to see the world as ONE BIG GREY AREA with NO absolutes. Sorry pal, in the real world there is life and death. Our perspective and their perspective. Right and wrong. Liberty and slavery. There are no compromises on any of these things.

I therefore choose life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness.

Subjugating myself to enslavement of your king and his ideology by capitulating to the liberal ideology to make myself FEEL good and part of the herd is not an option.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 14, 1999.


Remember your blood pressure.

Who was it who said "Give me Liberty, or give me death!"

Sometimes, death sounds a lot easier. Leska ... oh Leska ...


-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), April 14, 1999.

Patrick Henry, Diane.

Sorry 'bout the heaviness, but this is an ideological war that verges on the nuclear, and the survivability of the nation.

I'm watching freedoms erode daily, scapegoats being created, labeling and demouguoging rising to an art form and folks so deep in slumber they don't realize they're being boiled.

We differ on a few things, but you know where I'm coming from Diane. I intend no harm, but I'm watching harm being perpetrated imperceptably on the very foundations of freedom you and I cherish, and I can't abide it any longer.

Sleep is becomming harder as each night progresses, and the news more dim.

Let's indulge a mocha latte together and *sigh* reflect on the mighty things we as a people once did, and are capable of......


Do you think the esspresso will help?

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 14, 1999.

I'm actually confident the American public will wake-up ... after Y2K. More lessons to learn, I'm afraid.


Anger is not an emotion that's particularly healthy, INVAR, or constructive. It also hurts your individual immune system.

Yes, it's definately time for a latte and enjoying a simply georgeous sunny day!

Signing off, with a smile!



-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), April 14, 1999.

Y2K and Kosovo?

H'mmm, motivations?

DoD huge material asset? How much not Y2K compliant? We dont know.

H'mmm, need to deal with that issue in Europe. Better act now while the powder is dry and Y2K dampness is not yet upon us.

OK, not a good option, even a cynical option, but still an option.. mad, yes, but all war is mad and ends around the talking table.

Watch for the spin within the spin..

As has been said before the first casualty in war is truth.

Looking for signs of talking around the table to end this mad time.

-- Bob Barbour (r.barbour@waikato.ac.nz), April 14, 1999.


Raining cats and dogs here. Quite gloomy. Fits my mood.

Not ALL anger is bad Diane.

There IS a thing called righteous anger.

It's what won us our freedom from king George.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 14, 1999.



Let us realists, with our eyes wide open and our hearts in the right place, stick together...to help educate the surrealistic population, the ones with their eyes wide shut with their attention on their own lives resonating to the delusional beat of everything is a- okay-today.

Thank you.

-- (mass@delusions.com), April 14, 1999.

And Amen.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 14, 1999.


If you are going to use the F word please don't use the amen word later................................................................. it's bad press!

-- wwjd (caught off guard@y2k.com), April 14, 1999.

a little too much panic among the masses, I fear. Not yet anyway. I think the name calling and animosity will, when it gets bad, change to the "lock and load" mentality. I sure feel for you all. myself included....in a sad way..this sure feels like the end of an era, and it sure looks like things are headed down roads none of us have ever been on. But we can't blame one another or one man. Sadly...more is at stake here. And nothing seems a sure bet...except one thing...only the Creator can fix the mess that we're in...and our survival as it all breaks loose will certainly depend on Him. I just hate that some of you are already expressing hatred for one another...isn't that what war is all about?

-- rick shade (Rickoshade@aol.com), April 14, 1999.

wwjd: Never in the same sentence....amen?

rick: "And nothing seems a sure bet...except one thing...only the Creator can fix the mess that we're in...and our survival as it all breaks loose will certainly depend on Him."

THAT'S what I've said many times before, only to be flamed and reminded how RESILIENT mankind is, and how we can solve ALL our problems if we would just apply ourselves. 7,000 years of violent history being ignored in the process.

Mankind will bring us to the point of complete annilhilation before he learns that he cannot govern himself without God.

Maybe THEN we'll all be willing to listen.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 14, 1999.

Good posts INVAR, Rick, and Diane!! I agree with all of you. We must get together and try to push america back to what it used to stand for! Klintoon is the ANTHHSIS(Sp?) of what america was founded on! I wish everyone could see that as clearly as we do... :(

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), April 15, 1999.

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