The lock n' load, tabacky chewin' gloomers are in for yet another set back - check out this discussion on power. Awaiting your comments over there...

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 12, 1999

Answers

This is very good news, if this is a representative sampling. I'm a little suspicious since so much money is being spent on a problem that doesn't exist, but I really hope we have power after 1/1/2000. I really hope the Y2K optimists are correct.

This city-slicker is a lot more worried about Russia & China kicking USA butt, though. The way things are going, Y2K need only be a minor trigger for all hell to break loose.

On the other hand, I hear some NY Yuppies just bought fatigues and are going to help the KLA fight the nasty evil Serbs. Maybe they can win the war, and scare off Russia and China for good!

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), April 12, 1999.

Assuming concerns about the power grid turn out to be a giant chinese fire drill, then the utilities and government are still guilty of incredible arrogance and/or incompetence in not having worked this out a very long time ago. IEEE or ASCE, or whoever, should have done the testing necessary to determine for industry as a whole what was required. The costs of every single power plant deciding for themselves that embedded systems are not a problem after all *will* be passed along. (No such complacency warranted yet for other industries, like manufacturing.)

Y2K Pro aka Tickle - Congratulations if your *guess* (and that's all it could have been until very recently) turns out to be right that preparations are not necessary, but these jokers are taking us down to the wire. I am far less concerned about the grid than I was early last fall, thanks to contributions by posters like Dan and Robert, but responsibility for my family's welfare required me to make decisions based on available information at the time. I have no regrets for installing a wood stove and acquiring oil lamps and oil, and I pray they are not required as a result of Y2K, because my life will be in turmoil for a number of reasons if that happens.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), April 12, 1999.

Brooks --- Agreed. Anyway, preparation is not incompatible with good news about utilities or anything else (used to be called "good citizenship" in the 'olden days). Area outages are not incompatible with the grids working. Also see possible Y2K fuel shortages and Mills' analyses about long-term stresses on grids due to deregulation. Also see Kosovo.

Y2K is still heading to 8-9 as it has been all along, but it will be wonderful if utilities being operational protects against a 10 ......

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), April 12, 1999.

Y2K Amateur (Never did get an answer to WHY you claim to be a Pro):

Personal attacks huh, must be running SCARED!!

Seems like you folks are more and more on the DEFENSIVE.

We'll keep digging for the FACTS and exposing ALL of the misleading information being posted here along with those posting it.

Stay Tuned.

Ray, NOT a Doomer but wisely preparing.

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 12, 1999.

Y2K Pro:

I suppose you're disappointed no one has flamed Dan yet, but we all appreciate a calm informative post.

However, this doesn't change much at all. For instance, Rick Cowles said (CBN.COM) months ago that he expects most companies will be ok, but there will be some balckouts and more brownouts. One reason: this company belongs to EPRIs Y2K program for embedded chips --- ONLY 110 OF THE COUNTRIES 8,000 UTILITIES DO. What about the other 7, 890? Dan implies it (membership) is an important measure of Y2K compliance.

So thanks Dan, but don't grasp too many straws Y2K Pro --- we need about 7, 890 more posts like this even if every word is accurate.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), April 12, 1999.

Two distinct scenarios.... one where power stays on, and one where power drops out for long periods of time. I hope for the former... the latter will be TEOTWAWKI.

Y2k may only be the beginning...

The Dog

-- Dog (desert dog @-sand.com), April 12, 1999.

(crossposted from the thread Y2K "Pro" mentions)

This does indeed seem like good news for the electric situation in the United States. Can we be so confident about the rest of the world? If the lights stay on in the US and Canada, Western Europe, parts of Asia, Australia and New Zealand, but half of the rest of the world goes dark, how will this affect us?

I may be a little more comfortable knowing I'll be comfortable in January, but what will things be like on April 12, 2000?

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), April 12, 1999.

What makes you assume that I would hate the thread (except the fact that YOU posted it y2kpro)?

Setback? I constantly amaze at the fact that you trollish polly's assume that those of us prepping for something on the 7 to 10+ scale - automatically WANT this collapse to happen, and that we SHUN good news. What an idiot.

As I said before, we would HOPE nothing happens at all, or that disruptions are minor and manageable. I don't like the notion that my diet will be severely limited, and I will have to assume the role of farmer and guardsman. Dragging 50 gallon buckets of water out of a well 'aint too pleasant neither. However, we've seen no PROOF or HARD EVIDENCE to make us rethink our preparations. Besides, if we've learned ANYTHING from Y2K, it is just HOW DEPENDANT we have all become on an infrastructure that is not only interconnected, but fragile. We've lost our self-reliant roots that made us a strong nation in the first place. That in itself is a reason to prepare for a disaster.

Whether by computer malfunction, natural disaster or military attack - our current infrastructure supports the entire culture and nation - and if it goes for any reason - unless you're self-reliant - you're in BIG trouble. We "doomers" as you title us, are simply prudent and wise to take precaution- FOR ANY REASON. It's just practical. I will not use the much-worn-out insurance analogy here, but you get where I'm coming from. How and why you pollytrolls equate our belief that the infrastructure is not sound, and is in trouble - somehow is foolish and dangerous - not only baffles me, but proves what morons you all are.

You all have faith in a false god. Technology, government and commerce will not save you. Right now they are all dependant on one another.

Now to the thread you posted: It sounds good. SOUNDS. It's one guys word at this point. I'm looking for independant verification, proof and test-results. As Anonymous 99 posted, "I'm a little suspicious since so much money is being spent on a problem that doesn't exist,".

I've heard, read and seen NOTHING up til now that is giving me a sigh of relief. Even if HARD proof comes out later that Y2K will be a minor annoyance, I side with Anonymous 99's worry and conclusion about Russia and China.

But I know, you pollytrolls think the Dow will save us from all the evil in the world, and Clinton will usher in Utopia forever.

I 'spose when New York is a sea of hot glass - maybe then you pollytrolls might consider that a "setback".

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 12, 1999.

Was another thread really needed here Y2K Pro? I think most of us have been following Dan's posts very closely. I agree with Ray, you just had to get a headline and rub it in. Grow up dude, this is no joke. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), April 12, 1999.

Sissyman the hypocrite to the rescue. Pot, kettle, black.

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 12, 1999.

Sysman - you're correct, but the problem is that you're attempting to correct a highschool kid who has the teenage invincibility syndrome. y2k kid is operating from the teenage perspective that, in order to be real, he has to have some affect on those around him. In this situation it doesn't really matter what that affect might be...it just has to be an affect.

Now he probably perceives himself as a social misfit...possibly fat, or a late developer, or both, and is angry that he doesn't fit in with his peers. He's also afraid to take out that anger in any real way in his physical environment; and he doesn't have the psychological and emotional tools to work through his problems by himself. y2k kid is probably either a highschool student who is a latchkey child, or possibly slightly older and a dorm geek/lab geek sort of undergraduate. He obviously has no positive emotional or psychological support at home and he doesn't know how or where to find such support outside the home.

He needs help, but quite frankly we aren't really in a position to give him the type of help he needs. Personally I'd recommend simply ignoring him. With the amount of pent-up anger he's carrying around with him, I'd expect any attempts to interact will simply result in more of his attacks.

Just my 2 cents' worth,

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 12, 1999.

Dr Adams, I see your expertise on Y2K is matched only by your undoubted proficiency in Psychology. Where did you receive your doctorate?

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 12, 1999.

Doctorates not necessary to analyze a pseudo-professional, moronic- piece-of-shit-asswipe like yourself.

By the way Pro, you smell.

Your posts aren't even interesting enough to make me sick.

That's because you exhibit NO intelligent thought whatsoever.

You are a juvenile. You are a pest, a flea, a festering pus boil- between the cheeks.

As you intend to be.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.nwt), April 12, 1999.

A truly intelligent post INVAR. How dare you question another's intelligence. You've got a long way to go yourself.

-- INVARiably stupid (nah@not.today), April 12, 1999.

There. I feel much better now.

The truth does set you free.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 12, 1999.

Hi Kid,

I got my M.Ed. from Marymount of Virginia, and have 32 hours of post graduate work in Psych Research and Ed Psych at the Catholic University of America, in Washington D.C.

now, where did you say you were going to school again?

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 12, 1999.

Hmmm..."32 hours of post graduate work" doesn't exactly make you an expert, does it "Doc"? I think you better go back to making naive comments about the end of the world and leave the psycho-babble to those who ARE experts - like Dieter.

So, an M.Ed. from Marymount makes you qualified as what? A librarian? A guidance counsellor? A shill for Gary North?

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 12, 1999.

No, a genious compared to a prick like you.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 12, 1999.

Arlin,

Forget the kid. He simply regurgitates articles without a shred of understanding. You got the anger part right. Reminds me of the fat kid in King's The Stand. As for Dan the EE, the engineering spokesman for my local utility (PECO,one of the largest in the Northeast) has stated publicly that they have replaced roughly half of the distributed software in substations. Further, Peco has stated in a 10Q that they found 150 devices which required replacement out of 3000. Not exactly zero is it. So if Dan the EE wizard hasn't found any, maybe he hasn't looked hard enough. Maybe it means his utility is going down.

Y2K Kid - consider Prozac.

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), April 12, 1999.

"Reminds me of the fat kid in King's The Stand."

Why is it that all gloomers seem to have such an intimate relationship with "The Stand? Could it be that many of them (like the sub moronic RD. ->H) lick their chops at the thought of death on a massive scale?

Dr. Adams, could you help us here?

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 12, 1999.

Y2k Pro:

I haven't read "The Stand," (I saw part of the tv show and it blew) and I expect a Yourdon scenario. I think a year of disruption and ten years of depression is the best we can hope for. Do you have any idea of the nuclear, chemical and biological weapons available to the Russians, the Chinese, and the US? Do you know anything about their warfighting doctrines? The world is less stable, and less safe now than it was during the cold war. Novels like "The Stand" sell because people are aware of these facts, facts which are not openly discussed, and so there is a longing for some examination of their full ramifications, if only a fictionalization. People need some way of dramatizing and processing the truth of their situation - that's what drama is for. It's not a matter of wholly imaginary dangers exciting the fevered imagination of paranoids. My fevered imagination is excited enough by FACTS. Try and get some, before you start to get snotty on us.

Dano

-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), April 12, 1999.

Actually, "The Postman" is probably more like it.....

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), April 12, 1999.

R.D. - yeah, the kid definitely demonstrates anger, frustration, a general feeling of impotence in all important aspects of his life...the usual late teenage angst. That coupled with his lack of expertise (or even rudimentary knowledge) in areas he attempts to discuss tends to make me lean toward the 14 -16 year old age bracket.

Kid - you gave the wrong answer again...and yeah, I have done research on kids just like you, so I am qualified to do rough metrics in the general direction of a diagnosis. Now next time you want to talk you can provide a little documentable history about yourself...you know - your real name and education level, that sort of thing.

I mean, after all kid, you wouldn't want people to mistake you for a coward, what with you hiding behind a handle and all, now would you?

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 12, 1999.

ya'll are sure throwing a lot of jargon around...and I quite seem to wonder just why. What is the point of biting and devouring one another? Each is entitled to an opinion, and expressions of the same can serve no harm. However, when self-professed intellectuals and psychologists and the like suppose their answers and "insight" would take us down some "enlightened" path...think again. Considering the spirit and tone of some of these replies.....maybe a humility pill is in order for some of you. After all, facts speaks louder than words. Anyone hear from Infomagic lately? I love the bad news....it's invigorating.....therefore...what was my childhood like?

-- rick shade (Rickoshade@aol.com), April 12, 1999.

Hi Rick,

I'm afraid I have to disagree with the idea that the expression of any opinion 'can serve no harm'. When someone (the y2k kid, for instance) intentionally attempt to mislead people, both through misrepresenting his level of expertise AND through attempting to redirect the discussion into name calling, then there is a need to step in and take action.

Interestingly, we've been avoiding jargon throughout the entire discussion...though I do have a propensity to write somewhat above the eighth grade level from time to time, most of the folks here don't seem to have any problems with that level of vocabulary.

The fact that psychology and basic psych profiling scares you is most assuredly your choice...and really nothing *I* can do anything about...you might consider simply moving on to the next thread and leaving this one alone.

In the meanwhile, given your dedication to the facts, see if you can get the y2k kid to provide a little factual identification of himself.

consider it a challenge,

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 13, 1999.

My real name is Arlin H. (for Homer) Adams from Neshkoro Wisconsin & I am a guidance counselor at the local High School.

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 13, 1999.

Y2K Amateur,

Time for you to be KICKED OFF the forum.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 13, 1999.

Take your proposed censorship and shove it Ray.

-- freedom (nocensorship@this.place), April 13, 1999.

Hi kid,

wrong data base, I haven't lived in Wisconsin in over five years...in point of fact most of the regulars on this board know where I actually live. One or two of them even know my real middle name...

Kid one of the lessons you need to learn in life is that not everyone is telling the truth. John Koskinen isn't telling the truth, Billy Jeff Clinton isn't telling the truth, most multinational corporations aren't telling the truth, and neither is that shoddy internet "detective" agency you accessed, which is just a couple of relational databases containing varous census and marketting data. Kid that census data is from 1990. Yep, from back when you were 6 or 7 years old. I sure hope you didn't pay for that information, because you're not old enough to be able to afford to throw money away like that.

Now kid, where was it you said you are going to school?

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 13, 1999.

But I know, you pollytrolls think the Dow will save us from all the evil in the world, and Clinton will usher in Utopia forever.

INVAR....that kind of brought a needed chuckle right now. When I read Utopia, I immediately thought of ETERNITY. True, indeed, he may be introducing us all to eternity.

Mr. K
***ready for eternity from now until.....***

-- Mr. Kennedy (y2kPCfixes@MotivatedSeller.com), April 13, 1999.

Kid one of the lessons you need to learn in life is that not everyone is telling the truth. John Koskinen isn't telling the truth, Billy Jeff Clinton isn't telling the truth, most multinational corporations aren't telling the truth, and neither is that shoddy internet "detective" agency you accessed, which is just a couple of relational databases containing varous census and marketting data. Kid that census data is from 1990. Yep, from back when you were 6 or 7 years old. I sure hope you didn't pay for that information, because you're not old enough to be able to afford to throw money away like that.

Now kid, where was it you said you are going to school?

"Dr" Homer, I honestly feel badly that you and your group of paranoid, guv'ment fearin', tabacky chewin', trailer park livin' endomorphs believes nothing and no one on Y2K - unless it is spouted by one of your fellow gloomers.

I also feel badly that your thinking could be so rigid, that nothing anyone could say or do would change your tiny little mind. Seek some help Homer, (maybe one of your fellow guidance counselors?) you'll thank me for it later...

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 13, 1999.

Y2K Pro,

My mind is wide open. Where is all this great news? Show me. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), April 13, 1999.

somehow Sysman, I doubt we'll get anything meaningful out of him. The y2k kid appears to have flipped over into total defensive name- calling...I think the bit about my knowing where he got the outdated address kinda freaked him a bit...interesting how that happened, no?

oh well, it's really rather funny, all in all, you'll notice that in his panicked attempts to counter me he's resorted to name-calling based on a television program - and a cartoon at that! The sad part is that, rather than seek help, he'll simply lay awake at night, angry and upset...ah well...sometimes the only thing we can really do for kids like this is to pray for them.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 13, 1999.

Arlin, I think we gotta let this one go. We can only help those that we can reach. I think Y2K Pro will continue, eyes closed, headed for the Grand Canyon. If he is a 16 year old, with Web-TV, and playing with paper airplanes, wishing he was a Y2K project manager in the aviation industry, well, if you want to continue to try and help him, I wish you luck. I hope he survives the fall. Then again, maybe not. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), April 13, 1999.

"Dr." Homer and the Sissyman - together at last!

oh, by the way Homer, "I think the bit about my knowing where he got the outdated address kinda freaked him a bit...interesting how that happened, no?" Tis to laugh.

I got your particulars in about 30 seconds from Who/Where. What did it cost me? Thirty seconds...

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 14, 1999.