Cultural Evolution Rolling On, Y2K A Part Of It : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Below is a link to an essay entitled "The Rise of Integral Culture." In my little corner of the Universe, where we talk about living consciously, and how we learn to live in the ever-changing world, we often also talk about Y2K, beyond the potential disasterous global impact, we talk about Y2K as an accelerant to cultural transformation that is all around us every day. We ask ourselves regularly "what kind of world do I want to live in?" We try daily to act as if we are creating far beyond what we can see with our eyes.

What kind of world do you want to live in? How does your immediate world influence the larger world's evolution? Anyway,'s the essay:

The Rise of Integral Culture

-- Donna Barthuley (, April 08, 1999


There's nothing wrong with wishing for a progresssive society where the plagues of man are solved and we grow into a new threshold of prosperity and knowlege.

But it is not realistic.

Unfortunately, man's nature has not changed in almost 7,000 years of recorded history. As the technology grows does the evil. That's a fact. Wishing and hoping and chanting for a world of love and understanding will not make it so.

It will literally take God to fix the calamities we will bring upon ourselves. Until we come to the point we realise man cannot govern himself because of his inherant nature....evil will grow yet more, and I fear all life will hang in the balance before we as a species wake up to reality.

This is the legacy of man's history. Wishful thinking will not change this fact.

We all would love to live in a peaceful world, we may even have a household where we set examples of virtue and peace for all to see....this doesn't make your neighbors WANT to mimic you, and it doesn't stop the violence and evil that takes place in society.

Sadly, I see the world post-Y2K or whatever global crisis arises, as a place where the animal hatreds and jealousies of man wreak havoc on the weak, the willfully blind, the complacent, the dependant and the ignorant.

This also, is historical.

Look to man's past, and you get a glimpse of our future, of course sans all the fancy do-hickey's that make complacency and dependance on a fragile infrastructure so dangerous.

Not to mention the advanced weaponry and technology that exists now.

Couple these with man's historical failings, stir in a societal breakdown, a loss of communications, sprinkle anger and jealousy into that mix, and WALA! TEOTWAWKI.

At least the way it has been for the last 35 years.

-- INVAR (, April 08, 1999.

I'm not sure we have the same definition for the word "realistic", INVAR, but it is not a huge stumbling block. I think that cultural evolution happens one person at a time. If I want a peaceful world then I must live peacefully. If I want an enlightened, sane world, I must seek enlightenment and sanity. From a strictly logical perspective one cannot argue that because B has not happened ever, that it cannot or will not ever happen. The problem becomes one of thinking outside the box of A...(from whence B comes) Of course, if I do the same thing over and over that has led to problems, I cannot logically expect that if I continue to do those same things, something other than the same old results will follow. I refuse to accept that all those old definitions are "the only way." I don't accept that realism is the antonym of idealism. Living consciously, one person at a time, sanely and responsibly has not so far happened in massive numbers, or not as indicated or reported in popular culture. The more it does, the more I will see, (with my own conscious living included in the equation), the world I wish to live in, and the world that my children will wish to live in.

If you always do what you've always done,
you'll always get what you've always got.
So, if you want change, do anything else!

If all you have is a hammer, sooner or later everything starts looking like a nail.

-- Donna Barthuley (, April 08, 1999.

Voila! No dancing and chanting here, INVAR, except when moved by joy, no wishful thinking. Doing and being. I am doing every day, loving others and myself, facilitating growth. What would you propose a conscious-living human being do differently or additionally?

-- Donna Barthuley (, April 08, 1999.

Donna that was a wonderful essay. I felt as if I were reading about my life, my mother's life, friends etc. Now that I've found my place, Green Culteral Creative, with "environment and social concern from a secular view," I wish I knew more Green Culteral Creatives.

I think the author was on target about us being "in between stories," and that the old story doesn't work anymore.

The most difficulty I ever had, learning a new job, was when I was learning from a lady who was retiring, and I was replacing her. Her constant theme was "This is the way we've always done it." And much of the way she had always done it was slow, repetitive and unnecessary.

I too try to live consciously everyday. And today I had a wonderful encounter. I was picking up my free gallon jars at Subway, and as I was later than usual, a different young girl was there. She's the first person that's ever asked what I was doing with the jars. I told her I was storing food in them. She went on to say that she and her mother were planting a garden, and that her mother was going to teach her canning. I was very enthusiastic and encouraged her. We had a good talk. She said their dream was to live in a small house in the woods and be self sufficient while enjoying nature. As I was leaving I said, "It's good that you're learning these skills, for in the future they may come in handy." She said," Mom and I are worried about Y2K, if you know what that is." I told her I did, and she asked if I could come back at the same time next time, (a slow period) so we could talk. It was nice to meet a young girl that was interested in something that will be of value to her for the rest of her life.

Thanks Donna for the essay. I've printed it to save. I thought of Ishmael when reading about a story that doesn't work.

-- gilda jessie (, April 08, 1999.

I thought it was a well-done essay too, gilda. Thank you for telling me about today. I see it regularly, too. Today, I drove my neighbor, Henrietta, who is 75 years old, in poor health, with a husband going blind to a follow up appointment following her mastectomy. I've been driving both of them places for a few months. They are my left coast family...a bit older than my folks in S. Carolina. Henri, you gotta love this "survivor" has more health problems than Carter has little liver pills,...and she is such a fighter. Today was hard for her, and I was so thankful to be there. For the first time today today she said, "you know I love you, I can never thank you enough". And of course her thanks is not necessary. This morning, when my 26-year old son called to ask what I was doing today, I mentioned driving Henri and he said,..."you're a good person, Mom." I said..."Hey...Maybe sometime I will need it.

For a good read, gilda,...if you haven't already,...try "The Chalice and The Blade", by Riane Eisler. I have a worn well-read copy that I took with me to the doctor's office today.

-- Donna Barthuley (, April 08, 1999.

Hey, I thought I was an old hippie, but it was very interesting to discover I'm a cultural creative!

We too are taking y2k as an opportunity to live in the ways we believe in, more sustainably and simply... more sprouts, beans, grains, less mindless car use, etc.

-- Rosana (, April 08, 1999.

And here I thought I had been doing all these things just because I'm a cheap SOB.

Wow! I have a new way to look at all this now. Although it is hard for me to tell myself that I live in the country, garden, raise animals, can food, make soap, etc, etc becase of any other reason than I just like it (and AM a cheap SOB). To describe it otherwise I feel like I'm spining to myself.


You did it back to me with "...than Carter has little liver pills...". There's something there, just like you said originally. I don't know what it is, but it's there. Are you sure you didn't grow up in Texas?


- Got Dibbles?

-- Greybear (, April 08, 1999.

Nope, Daddy Bear,...not from Texas,...but nearly 48 years old and remember clearly the phrase..."more xxx than Carter has little liver pills." I have actually seen a Carter's Little Liver Pills container, but I like old stuff. :) See we were fated to be kindred, Daddy Bear. Hey, baby sister lives in San Antonio. Does that count for something?

Do I like recycling old candle wax into votives?...YOU bet. Do I like planting seeds and harvesting food I've grown? You bet. Do I want the rebirth of the Middle Ages, and all those inquistitors telling me what to think like the terrocrats in DeeCee?...NO WAY. I think there is a story possible that is not being told...a way to live consciously and progressively without returning to darkness and gofer wood pegs for nails. But I'm funny that way. Ask my 20-something kids who raise their eyebrows and ask me for remedies and recipes. Come for a rest in my candle lit living room. We'll talk.

Dad,..will I visit, if invited? Yep!

-- Donna Barthuley (, April 08, 1999.

Thanks, Donna,

Another person, saying in another way, that the old paradigm is changing---coincidently (?) with the changing millennium. I have a hard time with socio-babble, but I guess there's more than one way to say, "There is no 'one' right way." I must admit that Daniel Quinn said it a little less obtusely. Ray is saying the same thing in his own way.

Yes, Gilda, I too flashed back to Ishmael when I read Father Berry's quotation about living between the old and new stories.

What I find hard to believe is that there is such a high percentage of so-called "cultural creatives" or "integral culturalists" or new-paradigmers or....why can't they just talk English? Well, I guess a new vocabulary is appropriate when discussing new ideas. According to Tony Judge, "What we need to understand may only be expressible in a language that we do not know."

It doesn't appear, however, that the CC's are excercising any clout. I wonder what to make of that. It's one thing to live *one life or change *one mind, but...I'd have a lot more patience with that scheme if the Larson B and the Wilkins ice shelves hadn't lost 3000 square kilometers this past year; or if we could slip the Y2K schedule by several months.

INVAR, you know I respect you highly. But your newby diety (only 2000 years, is it?)is a "Traditonal" mythos which has described and delineated the Modern era--and has finally been subjugated by it. Where is it in the bible where Christ talks about now that he is a man, he puts away the things of a child?

In casting about for a new way of thinking about the world, a new worldview, many are investigating alternate spirituality either by looking ahead (New-agers, Gaians) or by investigating more primal forms (animism, Pantheism, native religions). But it still aligns with a transition from the Enlightenment view of a physics-oriented clockwork universe to a new organic model (as described so poetically by Elisabet Sahtouris, Paul Harrison and others).

I'm sure James Lovelock and Lynn Margulis never intended for their Gaia hypothesis to serve as the basis for a new religion. But I can think of worse foundations for a Transmodern ethical principle. Libby Hubbard agrees with me in her essay at: turn to proselytize and witness ;-} Alleluia, brothers and sisters of any leg-count and of all ilk.

I guess I just feel more comfortable revering the Earth and its progeny than some little old guy-in-the-sky. I know my Huron great-grandmother would understand. So would Donna, Gilda and a dozen others on this forum. The Earth is sacred; and thus should be viewed with reverence and treated with respect. That includes her collective and inseparable parts---like microbes and fish and soil and trees and birds and buffalo and people.

And all of us here. Amen.


"Create no images of God. Accept the images that God has provided. They are everywhere, in everything. The universe is God's self-portrait."---Octavia E. Butler (Parable of the Sower)

-- Hallyx (, April 09, 1999.

Hal,...I read and scrolled, and found, not to my surprise, but to my delight, that it was YOU who said, " According to Tony Judge, "What we need to understand may only be expressible in a language that we do not know."

I think, indeed, that a new lexicon is needed,...I find myself typing all sorts of hyphenated and quotes-enclosed stuff, because the language of the so-called modern era does not suffice.

I'm not sure where the CCs are? I don't see them in my neighborhood. I do read their words on the Internet, I listen to their lyrics in music, I read their poetry, I hear of brave free souls occasionally on what passes for "the evening news". So, are there are lot of pretenders out there, or semi-hermits, like me,...who reach out selectively in person? I think so. What is that great bumper sticker...the one that mentions "random acts of kindness?" Would I grab my .38 and tell some ignorant bozo to get away from my front door, or suffer the consequences of my fear and survival instincts? Yes. Would I prefer to sit down and feed someone and talk? Yes. Geez,..I feel like a character in a Heinlein novel. Stop me before I type again. :-)

-- Donna Barthuley (, April 09, 1999.


I know what you mean. Perhaps the femele character in "Stranger in a Strange Land," the professional 'witness' who, when garbed and charged with her responsiblity, could truthfully and accurately report only that which she saw, with no conjecture, or inferences.

If I were a publisher/editor, and someone came to me with a novel called "Y2K"---which described the characters, events and plot of what's happening right now and exptrapolating it into the future---I'd boot him out of my office for presenting such an implausible, trite, poorly plotted insult to a reader's intelligence.

Truth is not only stranger than fiction, it is less likely. Who said that?


"Dad, dad, we're dead meat. We're dead meat!" --- The feral child, Mad Max II The Road Warrior

-- Hallyx (, April 09, 1999.

Ah Donna, Hallyx, Rosana, Greybear and other kindred souls, I wish you were all sitting here with me, among the plants and animals, drinking green tea, or just coffee, with one of Donna's recycled candles burning in the background, and discussing CC's, Gaians, Henrietta, animals, gardens, canning and books. Greaybear you would like my Little Doctor thermometer and Carter's Liver pill boxes.

Hallyx I would never gripe about proselytizing and witnessing if it were a joyous Alleulia, including "our borthers and sisters of any leg-count and of all ilk." I too am "more comfortable revering the Earth and its progeny than some little old guy-in-the-sky."

The Tony Judge quote reminded me of something I'd read. I thought about it a lot and finally I remembered a Sci-Fi book by Frederik Pohl and Jack Williamson, "The Singers of Time." The quote, "What we need to understand may be only expressible in a language that we do not know," reminded me of this book. Here's a passage from it.

"And the aiodoi sang on, almost laughing at the sweet, sad, time bound creatures who believed in such words as "history."

"In the sweet songs of the aiodoi there are phrases and melodies of myriad other songs and myriad other singers. The songs of Einstein, Mach and Bohr join with the songs of the aiodoi, and are not found wanting. So do the songs of Dirac and Schrodinger, Newton and Aristotle, Davies and Thorne, Hawking and Heisenberg, is only the aiodoi who can know all the singers, for their number, like the aiodoi themselves, is without end. There are myriad others known to the singers from Earth, as well as myriad not known to them, and myriad myriad never to be known at all until that timeless time when all songs and all singers sing together... And all the songs are sweet." It's a lovely book

Thanks Donna for suggesting "The Chalice and the Blade." Hallyx, I'm so glad you mentioned Elisabet Sahtouris and J. E. Lovelock. "Gaia: A New Look at Life on Earth" and "Gaia: The Human Journey From Chaso to Cosmos" put into words how I've always felt about the earth. I can't hush without mentioning "Heaven is Under our Feet" by Don Henley and Dave Marsh. The book was written to raise money and consciousness to save Bear Garden Hill in Walden Woods from being destroyed for a condominium. All of you would like it. Here's a toast to Kindred Souls.

-- gilda jessie (, April 09, 1999.

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