I am having a struggle deciding whether to buy a $500 gas generator or sink $10,000 into a diesel plus inverter plus deep cycle batteries. In view of the recent claims that everything is working out with the electrical supply companies,it leaves me in a state of confusion.What are you guys and gals doing about this? Also,what about a smaller air-cooled diesel,is a water cooled one much superior?In other words,I may not be able to buy a small water cooled diesel.I live in a s,all home and plan to run the generator two days a week.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 1999

Answers

i think you have to consider your situation and finances in making your choice, 1>can you store fuel for the generator, gasoline mor dangerous than diesel,in sufficent quantity to handle your run times, 2>you may have to run the genset more than two days a week to charge the batteries. 3>do you realy need a large power plant, a 20,000 diesel is a pretty big machine, you would need a shed to store it in. 4>the fuel consumption would be significant to run a genset for a day. 5>most people plan to run the sets 4-6hrs a day 6>northern tool (northern hydraulics) has a web site with smaller diesel gensets under the northern pro line, you might want to look at these. 7>what kind of battery /inverter unit do you plan to buy, as the type of battery used would require specific charging methods,and you would need to determine this. 8> look at a web site called "the juice page" there is atremendous ammount of info about gensets, battery/inverters, transfer switches, check out the bbs for questions you might have. i hope i have been some help. amc

-- Anonymous, April 07, 1999

You mention you live in a small home; for $10,000 you could power a small home comfortably with a sophisticated solar panel array, including sine wave inverter, battery banks, backup generator for charges when no sun is available, etc. You might want to consider a propane tank added to this setup to power a propane refrigerator, dryer, stove, etc. If solar is impractical for you due to lack of sun, check into wind or water based generative systems.

Very likely for less than $10,000 you could achieve a level of energy independence which would serve you well whatever the outcome of y2k on utilities, especially since energy costs may rise *sharply* in the coming years given any of numerous potential scenarios discussed in this forum. Also consider: under a "diesel generator only" scenario, what is your backup plan if and when fuel cannot easily be replenished, or if the cost of replenishment becomes prohibitive due to shortages, etc.? Of course, in choosing a generator the total starting surge voltage potential of various appliances must be considered and the generator capacity must exceed the total by a certain percentage. Low-cost generators may not be adequate for your starting surges on appliances, plus they may produce a "flatter" wave and other "dirty" power problems which may damage appliances. Also, not all lower cost generators are adapted to readily install a transfer switch - even though a transfer switch is essential to prevent power line maintenance workers' electrocution due to your home gen-set.

Last but not least, a solar array offers a home equity enhancement, whereas a mammoth diesel generator may become merely an obsolete lawn ornament. Numerous web sites offer extensive solar info and system components; an excellent one which comes to mind is Mr. Solar's website at http://www.mrsolar.com

-- Anonymous, April 07, 1999

The amount of solar capacity that you can buy for $10,000 will not even come close to providing the same amount of electricity that you now enjoy. Granted, that may be alright. Other solar dealers (Az Solar) say that solar will *never* pay for itself unless you live way beyond the grid. OTOH, A good diesel generator will always be a good diesel generator. We see "used" units on the market today that are 20-30 years old and older. At least if the diesel generator is not needed, you can sell it later. Note: I doubt you could sell any of the portable gensets for even half of what they are worth. OTOH, they don't cost much. For what it's worth ...

-- Anonymous, April 08, 1999

Rance, You asked what us guys and girls are doing? Well, thanks to forums such as this one and my own local research, I no longer believe I have any sound reason for preparing for widescale long-term electricity blackouts. Heat, light, food I can handle for up to two weeks without electric power, and I also live in a downtown apartment in a northern European city, plus wife and children. But as I say, I no longer have reasons for believing my contingency plans will be necessary for direct Y2K reasons, though they may be of some use for indirect or less predictable elements of the Y2K phenomena, for example temporary shortages of some food items caused by bad planning or overeactive excessive hoarding of some items by groups or individual households. It may also only be a US phenomena. Perhaps this is due to greater awareness and progress on remediation in North America, but I'm not so sure. Where once I saw complacency and ignorance, today I see a professional workforce with experience of remediation and testing, who still show no signs of concern, even in the face of media speculation. Where I live, awareness is universal, action appears to be ongoing or completed, and public concern is minimal. But we may be atypical - Gartner recently put us in the category of best prepared countries. Nobody I know is buying generators and it is unlikely the local authorities would allow the necessary fuel storage in urban areas on grounds of public safety.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 1999

Rance, you should also consider a portable gas generator that you convert to run on propane. The conversion isn't difficult, and your local propane supplier can install a 500 gallon tank. Propane should be available as much as other fuels. Also, if you go the propane route, you could use it for other needs as well. For information on propane conversions see: www.uscarb.qpg.com

-- Anonymous, April 08, 1999

I am fully in favor of solar energy. In theory, at least. But for the present time, I don't believe it is the least bit competitive with grid power. If you look at Mr. Solar's Home Page, you will find that the cost of BATTERIES alone, including periodic replacement, is higher than grid power for the amount of power the batteries are capable of storing in their lifetime. Add in the cost of the panels, trackers, electronics, inverters, etc, not to mention back up generators, gas refrigerators, etc. to compare. Mr. Solar says that batteries will end up costing you from 22 to 44 cents per kwh. He says that the total system will cost you 47 cents per kwh using the most economical components. My grid power rate in southern Oregon is 5 1/2 cents per kwh; my son's rate in southern Washington is about 3 cents per kwh. I understand there are some expensive areas of the country which are over ten cents per kwh.

Of course, if you can't get grid power for some reason, well, then you have to decide what's your best alternative. But solar is really expensive, in my opinion. Even if you could get free panels, just the batteries price any solar, or wind for that matter, system out of the market.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 1999

Rance,

Are you seriously considering spending $10,000 for a backup power system just for the Y2K problem? Lets not argue about Y2K, but lets make a comparison. How much do you spend every year on life insurance or fire insurance. How much do you save in case you find yourself jobless? Did you spend the extra money on your last car to get side air bags and active head restraints?

Your situation might be significantly different than the average persons, and as an old boy scout, I definately believe in being prepared, but to focus such significant resources on only one of the thousands of different calamities that could occur to a person appears unjustified.

bob

-- Anonymous, April 08, 1999

Air cooled diesels typically are built with much larger crankshaft journals and other metal components due to their need to dissapate heat. They are generally 1800 rpm versus 3000 to 3600 rpm for the water cooled units. I would say air cooled is the way to go for longetivity, but I am a bit biased, because I have some for sale!

-- Anonymous, April 09, 1999

Rance, I have worked in y2k at several utilities, only minor y2k bugs that won't affect the generation OR the distribution of electricity. Get a coleman stove, a few cans of food from the pantry, and some water. Then after y2k comes and goes with no significant events, you can go camping. And tell those y2k shysters to put the generators where the sun doesn't shine.... Regards,

-- Anonymous, April 12, 1999

I just installed a dual-fuel NG/propane-fired 20kW MagneTek generator. This unit will run my entire house (as we proved today during initial startup testing). A 500 gallon "aux" propane tank in the back yard, a couple months food & water, and we're good to go.

Of course I could never justify the emormous expense of this setup unless I had a future plan. Someday, we'll have our "dream house" in the country, and this genset will come with us as backup for "rural power".

-- Anonymous, April 13, 1999

You've waited too long to explore most of the options. Right now, you're probably looking at a gasoline unit. As an alternative, try this: (I haven't seen ANYONE talking about this) - go to your local rental place and buy a GOOD, industrial gasoline generator. I paid about $1800 for mine, and it is only 2 months old (practically brand new). I got the original owner's manual and the warranty card had not been sent in yet. You can then get a propane conversion kit and run it on that. I think the kits go for about $200.

Good luck

Bob

-- Anonymous, April 26, 1999